View Full Version : AAR: Vickers Tactical 3-Day Advanced Combat Handgun Class–Oct 22-24, 2010–Moyock,NC
David Pennington
10-25-10, 10:08
This class was quite simply the most "perfect storm" that I’ve experienced so far in firearms training.
Larry, who's always excellent, was on his absolute “A” game, the level of student proficiency was phenomenal, the facility allowed us to go the next level, and the weather was nearly perfect.
I've been to a fair amount of firearms and tactical training, both governmental and private, over the last 12 years or so. I've shot with most of the big name instructors and at quite a few of the big name schools. Additionally, I've taught several successful classes and served as an AI for dozens more. With that as a bit of background, I can say that this was unquestionably the best shooting class that I've ever attended.
The range at USTC (aka Blackwater) was fully covered and featured both pop-up steel plates and numerous lateral movers. The covered range and pleasant weather let everyone comfortably learn without being unduly exhausted by the normal Virginia/North Carolina heat and humidity that we are generally used too. Not being exhausted from the environment let everyone stay on their A game and gain the most possible knowledge out of the class.
I've been good friends and shooting buddies with Larry for just shy of 10 years now so you could expect me to be a bit biased. That's understandable but I can tell you with absolute honesty that this was the single best class that I've attended anywhere and with anyone for all of the reasons listed.
The other great thing about this class was the level of shooter proficiency and professionalism. In every formal firearms training I've attended over the last 12 years, I've always ranked number 1 or 2 in the class. I was only middle-to upper middle of the pack in this class. I was shooting just fine and about at my normal level but a lot of the other shooters were leaving me well behind. Larry and I both agreed that this was the best shooting class we've ever seen. It was a very humbling experience and that's a good thing. As one shooter said, paraphrasing, "you rise to the level of the tide". The tide was unbelievably high in this class and it forced us all to work hard to rise to that level vs being with a weaker group of shooters and being able to rest on one's laurels.
Speaking of shooter skill, there were several guys in the class whom I had previously taught in one of my classes or whom I had AI’d in a previous Vickers class. The level of skill and progress made by these guys over the last few years was amazing. They weren't just getting better, they had become outstanding shooters. The real stand-out for me was our own Paul Hotaling. When I met Paul 5 or 6 years ago he was a boringly average shooter with some really bad habits. I hadn't shot with Paul in well over a year and I was blown away by his shooting ability. Paul hadn't become a better shooter, he'd become an absolute hammer. He's been worshiping at the alter of accuracy for the last 5 years and he's been rewarded duly---he's become unbelievably accurate and fast. Nice.
All paper shooting was done on the USTC targets featuring a set of stacked B8 bull’s-eyes and this was used to reinforce Larry's mantra of "accuracy first". Off all the hundreds of shots on paper, I only dropped 3 or 4 outside of the 8 ring but every shot outside of the black 9 ring was painful and embarrassing. As a point of reference, every shot except for those 3 or 4 shots in the 7 ring would have landed squarely inside the 8" -0 zone of an IDPA target but the accuracy standard here was either the 3.5" 10 ring or the 5.5" 9 ring (aka "inside the black"). Any rounds out in the 8" 8 ring (aka "outside of the black") were considered unacceptable and the ground for personal shame. This stringent focus on precision is one of the key factors that sets Larry's training philosophy apart from most other instructors and schools who often preach that just getting your rounds into the upper torso with most of them being in the 8" circle is good enough. Despite the stringent accuracy standards, the shooting was anything but slow. I saw the vast majority of the class shooting just as fast as I've seen other students shoot in other classes and schools except here their rounds were destined for that 5.5" 9 ring not "somewhere" on the paper or steel. Fast and accurate is way more important than fast and so-so.
We also had the pleasure of shooting on USTCs 12x12" steel movers from 5-25 yards, both static and while shooting on the move. The ability to shoot fast and accurately on the steel movers was really gravy on top of this already phenomenal class. Shooting while on the move at the steel movers is about as realistic as training can get with live ammunition on a square range. Also, when you see students shooting 6 for 6 or 12 for 12 with a service pistol on a rapidly moving target at 15 and 25 yards, you know that the instructor is doing something right. The same can be said for many of the students who shot cleaning time and time again shooting the steel movers while moving forwards and to the rear from 12 to 6 yards and them back again. All of those high concentration rounds on those tiny 5.5" black circles were paying off big time.
The obligatory round count for those who care was just shy of 1200 rounds for me. And every single one of those 1200 rounds was fired with purpose, care, and learning vs just being thrown down range.
And as a final note, Larry live fire demonstrated almost every drill to the class and shot many of the timed tests with us. If an instructor isn't willing to demonstrate what he preaches live fire in front of the class, I have very little interest in hearing what they have to say. You have to practice what you preach if you want the congregation to take you seriously.
AWESOME Class. This was one of the greatest concentration of excellent shooters I have shot with to date. I cannot say enough for the skill level of every single man (even if they are laser inkjet repair men) that was on this line.
Now I swear to God on all things Holy , if Grey Group, LAV, or someone doesn't come up with a "TEAM SPONGEBOB, **** YEA!!!!" T-shirt, I will. That is just too good to pass up. Oh how they would sell.
The TEAM AMERICA movie poster on a Tshirt, except with Spongebob, the caddy-shack gopher/groundhog (sorry Paul), a fumbling painter, a jail bird, and a man holding a printer all geared up. This has all sorts of WIN.
Thanks to everyone who made this happen. I don't want to sound like a fanboy in saying this, but it is really hard to describe his classes and not. I have trained under a good many of the trainers out there today, some great and some not so great. The one thing that keeps me coming back to LAV is this; He's like a movie like Snatch, O'Brother Where Art Thou...... etc, every time you attend, you pick up something new. Even if it is the same material, there are little things that you miss sometimes, and when presented again you will pick up. A constant flow of mini-lightbulb moments if you will. Training with Larry is very much like peeling an onion, there are many layers; and only through taking in a few classes under him (and others to gain a perspective of reference) do you really begin to get a grasp on how much the man actually knows and how gifted he is in being able to "present" that knowledge to even those as slow as myself.
I wished I could show you guys how bad I sucked with a handgun 5 years ago and what I can do now just by applying what he has taught me. It's not about being a super human (although I am convinced there were some in this class that are just that, hell there was even a superhuman painter there,...sorry Dave), it's about applying the same fundamentals, making the same sequence of events happen over and over, time and time again that make you great. A lot of people have a hard time grasping that concept. Larry drives this concept home very well.
Very cool and congrats to Dinger! Good on your brother!
C4
Littlelebowski
10-25-10, 13:21
"Team Laser Jet Printer Repair.
Big bucks, big tits, big action!"
So you met some pretty switched on printer repairmen?
Littlelebowski
10-25-10, 13:30
So you met some pretty switched on printer repairmen?
Dude, we were some pretty switched on printer repairmen.
30 cal slut
10-25-10, 13:49
The one thing that keeps me coming back to LAV is this; He's like a movie like Snatch, O'Brother Where Art Thou...... etc, every time you attend, you pick up something new. Even if it is the same material, there are little things that you miss sometimes, and when presented again you will pick up. A constant flow of mini-lightbulb moments if you will. Training with Larry is very much like peeling an onion, there are many layers; and only through taking in a few classes under him (and others to gain a perspective of reference) do you really begin to get a grasp on how much the man actually knows and how gifted he is in being able to "present" that knowledge to even those as slow as myself.
Funny, I was just thinking that very same thought myself. I couldn't agree with you more.
There is a hardly a wasted word that pops out of Larry's mouth. Sometimes, I wish I had a damn tape recorder and a post-class transcription services.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg
Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/ustc_logo.jpg
U.S. Training Center
www.ustraining.com
The 1st of the photos;
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%20Tactical%203%20Day%20Advanced%20Handgun%2010-22-24/VickersTactical3dayAdvancedHandgunatBW058.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg
Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/ustc_logo.jpg
U.S. Training Center
www.ustraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%20Tactical%203%20Day%20Advanced%20Handgun%2010-22-24/VickersTactical3dayAdvancedHandgunatBW044.jpg
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Heavy Metal
10-25-10, 16:53
Dave,
Your AAR is not making me feel better about having to miss this weekend's class.......now, where is my Drano Cocktail?:(
I am most sorry you got to miss me sans Serpa now, doin' the ALS thing!:D
It was an honor and a pleasure to shoot with everyone at the class.
Everyone there was shooting like a friggin' pro.
I wrote up an AAR before I saw this one if anyone wants to check it out: http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?742-AAR-Vickers-Tactical-Advanced-Combat-Pistol-USTC-Oct-22-24-2010&p=9472#post9472
Some pics from it:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/LAV%203%20Day%20Pistol%20USTC%202010/IMG_0735.jpg
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/LAV%203%20Day%20Pistol%20USTC%202010/IMG_0728.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg
Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/ustc_logo.jpg
U.S. Training Center
www.ustraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%20Tactical%203%20Day%20Advanced%20Handgun%2010-22-24/VickersTactical3dayAdvancedHandgunatBW030.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg
Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/ustc_logo.jpg
U.S. Training Center
www.ustraining.com
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%20Tactical%203%20Day%20Advanced%20Handgun%2010-22-24/VickersTactical3dayAdvancedHandgunatBW018.jpg
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LAV's 600 Aggrate Test target:
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%20Tactical%203%20Day%20Advanced%20Handgun%2010-22-24/VickersTactical3dayAdvancedHandgunatBW098.jpg
Shot with his Glock 17 w/Trijicon RMR:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/LAVG17REDDOT.jpg
All work done by Bowie Tactical.
I got creative on zazzle!
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_H0sPpmgYPCc/TMYfxeXFFGI/AAAAAAAAAKM/lbqZ41fxvuU/s1024/VT2.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_H0sPpmgYPCc/TMYfzEl3vRI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/XzgolZsN3XA/s1024/VT.jpg
Looks like a great class - great seeing LAV continuing to teach with sizzle!
The real stand-out for me was our own Paul Hotaling...he's become unbelievably accurate and fast. Nice.
David lost a bet, obviously. :jester:
SeriousStudent
10-25-10, 20:32
......
Some pics from it:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/LAV%203%20Day%20Pistol%20USTC%202010/IMG_0735.jpg
Holy crap! How far away is he from the target??
I have called in mortars closer than that! :eek:
John_Wayne777
10-25-10, 21:03
Best guestimation was 130 or 135 yards.
...and several of the students managed to make hits at that distance as well. On the previous day several of us went to that range and tried our hand on the 6" steel plates from 100 yards. Several of us managed to knock down the 6" plates from that distance. When you have the student skill level present in this class then walkbacks become somewhat...um...extreme. We still had multiple people standing at that distance, but going any further just didn't seem prudent.
If we get this group of shooters together again for a handgun course we'll need to reserve the KDR for walkback drills.
David lost a bet, obviously. :jester:
Dude, Paul is a no shit death machine. He be the posterboy for dry fire practice.
On a personal note, I shot my best in a long time in this class. The level of the "average" shooter in the class was far higher than previous classes. And like was said before, you pick up something new each time you take one of Larry's classes.
And on a side note, movers at 7 yards from the draw are a mutha.
Just to add a little to what was said previously...
This was by far the best class I have been fortunate enough to run and by far the best group of shooters gathered on one range that I have ever witnessed. They were all not only great shooters but great people to train with. It was great to see Larry have to raise the bar for the class and push us out of our comfort zones. That said as the bar was raised the level of shooting raised with it. As was mentioned everyone rose with the tide....
Once again Larry showed why he is IMHO the premier trainer in the industry. His standards for accuracy and his style of teaching allows you to constantly learn, but it also constantly pushes you out of your comfort zone. We were shooting small bulls and out of the black was simply a no go and reason for shame regardless of the distance you were shooting from...
I really cant stress enough the caliber of men in this class not only as shooters but as men and professionals. The LE in this class was by far the best I have ever encountered on a range or class. These guys train and it really showed. IMHO they are to be emulated by all of their peers not just as shooters but as true professionals.
The Blackwater range really allowed us to do a lot of great stuff with not only bulls but steel racks and moving steel. There were some guys who were like f-ing machine gunners and it was great to watch.
I cant say enough positive things about this class as it was outstanding from top to bottom. Larry was outstanding and at the top of his game. The student body which consisted of industry professionals, face shooters, LE and civilians were top notch. Larry's humor is something that cant be stressed enough and not only because he is just plain funny as shit but because his style allows you to relax and perform to your potential which is something that should not be over looked. We had teams that consisted of "Team America **** ya" "Laser Jet repair men" and "Sponge Bob" and every team was dialed in... Team America rocked several stages and was strong from top to bottom.
It was great to see a lot of familiar faces but even more impressive is the strides these shooter have made over the last several years. They have embarked on a journey and you can tell that they are putting in the work that it takes to shoot at the level that they were shooting at. As was mentioned Paul shot like a beast but others also really shined, JW running new pistols shot like a beast and Lil B also shot extremely well, especially factoring in his arm which he never once mentioned. Shawn L and Jim D (Coolbreeze) also really shot extremely well and really brought their a game. There were no excuses. Period. This class realy manned the **** up!
I want to thank Larry for what turned out to be an incredible class that far exceeded my expectations and allowed me to leave a better shooter.
For those of you who have not taken a class with Larry.... DO IT! You have the chance to train with the best out there. Don't let that chance pass you by.
Some pics:
Larry rocking the Atomic Dog holster
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jasonhgross
10-26-10, 08:55
It was really good meeting you guys. Thanks for keeping me laughing.
John_Wayne777
10-26-10, 10:46
I’m not sure what I can add to the AAR’s already written up about this class, but I’ll attempt it anyway.
I’m not a gunfighter, but I have been through enough training over the years that I can recognize superb training when I see it. This course is, without question, the single best pistol skills course I’ve ever attended. I don’t make that statement lightly. It was a superb course for a number of reasons:
1. The instructor: I’ve written previously on the merits of training with Mr. Vickers, but much of it bears repeating. He’s a phenomenal instructor with such a thorough command of the material that he can explain it in dozens of different ways. Beyond that, he’s actually taken the time to develop a number of drills and teaching tools that allow just about anyone north of a room temperature IQ to grasp critical concepts sufficiently to make an instant difference in their performance. That isn’t easy. LAV just makes it look easy. Combine extraordinary skill as an instructor with a personable and generous demeanor and a good sense of humor, and you have the foundation of an excellent training experience.
2. The facility: The U.S. Training Center is a world class facility with excellent support. While the weather was generally very pleasant, those like myself who have significant albino ancestry can still appreciate the benefits of a covered range. Training is always easier when you aren’t sunburned or wet. The target systems, movers, and plate racks gave a talented instructor the ability to challenge the students in a number of novel ways. The hospitality of the USTC was greatly appreciated.
3. The students: My fellow students exhibited an extremely high level of skill, were extremely eager to learn, and generally had an excellent attitude about the class and on helping out with the usual range chores. This made class flow more smoothly and allowed the pace to be set at a level that challenged even the most skilled shooters in the class. LAV stated that this was the most skilled group of shooters he had ever had in an open enrollment class. Those who prevailed in competitions were usually the ones who made the fewest mistakes. Just about everyone in the class was capable of walking away with a win on any individual drill at any time. …and you knew it. To stand out in this group you had to be almost flawless. The knowledge that the guy next to you was a serious shooter drove you to dial in and perform.
All of those factors contributed to one of the most outstanding training experiences I’ve ever encountered. It was a privilege to be there.
I shot the course with my new P30 pistol equipped with Heinie sights. The more I shoot the P30 the more I like what it has to offer. It’s a fantastic handgun that has been superbly reliable for me so far, and it has exhibited spectacular accuracy to boot.
It was wonderful to spend some time on the range with some old friends and to make some new ones. I offer my most sincere appreciation to the instructor, to the folks at Grey Group, and to my fellow students for contributing to one of the chief highlights in my training history.
Littlelebowski
10-26-10, 12:17
Best class I have ever taken. I was worried about my own skill level going into this class over the "Advanced" part of the class title. I earned a hat twice through getting a small ricochet to the head and on the 10 at 10 in 10 seconds. More details to follow.
It pains me that I missed this class, especially since it was in my backyard :(
Sounds like a great class.
What were Larry's thoughts on the RMR-equipped Glock? Is he "kicking the tires" or does he believe it to be a viable long-term solution? Or is the jury still out?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/LAVG17REDDOT.jpg
Sounds like a great class.
What were Larry's thoughts on the RMR-equipped Glock? Is he "kicking the tires" or does he believe it to be a viable long-term solution? Or is the jury still out?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/LAVG17REDDOT.jpg
I took away that the jury was still out but it really shined in certain areas (low light, shooting on the move at a moving target and extreme long range shooting) Others can chime in with their takeaway...
It pains me that I missed this class, especially since it was in my backyard :(
It pains me that we didn't get to hang out and do some training together.
Larry seemed pretty positive about it.
I think there is a learning curve to using a sighting system that is that high above where the sights usually are, and that you need to get relatively well aligned before you can even see the dot...but it was pretty sweet at night, and at distance. I didn't shoot on the move with it, but I can bet that's where it kicks the most ass.
If I ever have enough loot sitting around to be able to try one myself long term, I just might.
It pains me that we didn't get to hang out and do some training together.
Likewise but I have a feeling we'll sync up this spring. Maybe I'll head up your way for a Ken or Larry class.
GunSlinger
10-26-10, 22:42
Missing this one was wronger than two boys....well, you know.
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You got some great pics Dinger! Thanks for adding them to top off an outstanding class!
Heavy Metal
10-27-10, 18:10
Dave,
You know we love you like a brother but you have got to get over this plaid addiction and get yourself to the Gap before we do an intervention!:laugh:
In regards to the RDS on the Glock. I think in 5 years time most of us will have these on our pistols. I think that at the rate technology matures, these little babies will maybe not replace iron sights, but will be the primary sighting systems for handguns. For me, and I didn't run more than a couple mags through it, it was like "oh hell yea, someone put my aimpoint on a sidearm, let's rock".
I instantly felt very comfortable with it, and it felt like "home" as I pretty much exclusively shoot aimpoints now days. I was making very consistant shots (as in hitting more than I was missing) at 100 yds on round 8" steel plates. Some folks had some issues with wobble. Your normal sight picture wobble seems amplified on this optic, which can lead to the "there's the perfect sight picture snap the trigger NOW!!!". I just zoned that out, didn't really concentrate on the optic too much, just the target, let the dot fall on the intended impact area and performed a perfect trigger press. It worked great for me doing that, shooting through the optic, just as you would on a carbine. I was extremely impressed. It's not so much a matter of if I will get one, a couple mags sold me on it; it's just which one to get. Yes it has some offset, but my current HK P30 factory sights do as well. I have to change my POA to hit dead center at 5, 10, 15.....yds as is now.
I think the 8 MOA dot is about right. Even at 100+ yds, for what you would ever do with a handgun, the 8 seems to be GTG. Any smaller and I would imagine it might be a little slower to acquire.
If it's slow up close, well I think this class was shown just how accurate you can be up close with even no sights. Distance and moving is where this sight really shines.
Hope that helps.
A little more on the RDS. 10-15 years ago for the carbine you'd be hard pressed to convince the majority of the people that the RDS was superior to the Irons. It is only recently that some of the big named schools finally admit the validity of the RDS on a carbine. With the handgun version, it will be the same slow to change process. As humans we are our own worst enemies, in many ways.
Take a gunfight. Now I have never been in one and hope to never find myself in one, but from what I can gather the majority of folks who do find themselves in one do not use their sights. They focus on the threat. I have been taught with the carbine to not get tied up in the optic, to look through the optic at the threat and let the dot rest on the target, then press the trigger straight to the rear. In truth, the standard iron sight is a complicated beast, and to sight in on a threat we have to force our body to do the opposite of which it wants to do. It wants to focus on the Booger, but kinda needs to be watching the front sight, especially at distance.
Why I think the RDS will be the future on sidearms? It can allow you look through the sight at the threat (and in truth your attention needs to be with what's going on dynamically in front of you, not a little hunk of steel on the front of the slide). So long as the trigger manipulation is not goofed, its a win in my book. I guess my thinking is we shoot this way with the carbine, why not the handgun?
I'd say that in the next 5 years, if someone comes up with what the T1 Micro is to the M3 aimpoint of handguns RDS's, they'll knock one out of the park. I'm not saying the trijicon or leupold is bad at all, but I would really like to see aimpoint make a small unit for a sidearm that has a crazy long battery life, have a replaceable protective front screen (so that if it gets nasty from ejection port blow-back a new lens can be replaced at user level and will stand up to crazy knuckle-dragger abuse. A rugged unit would make 1 handed malfunction clearance/loading a breeze as well.
They are here to stay. Many will nay say it, but time will show.
Littlelebowski
10-28-10, 11:41
The Triad!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/60094c49.jpg
Littlelebowski
11-01-10, 14:39
(name withheld for PERSEC)
If you borrowed my G19 during the night shoot, shoot me a PM so that I have your contact info.
Littlelebowski
11-12-10, 14:41
posting for my best friend from the Corps who attended the class with me
Review of Larry Vickers 3 Day Advanced Tactical Pistol Course October 22nd-24th 2010
From Johnny Bravo:
Hello, new to the gun forum world so here’s a little on my background. *Former US Marine Corps MSPF (Maritime Special Purpose Force) member, Marine Scout Sniper, and OIF veteran. *Additionally, I have worked protection for two of the world’s largest private security firms since 2006 as a personal security specialist and designated defensive marksman (DDM) in Iraq and am still doing so worldwide.
*The 3 Day Advanced Tactical Pistol Course cost $700 with a requirement of 1200 rds of ammo minimum. *The class was outstanding, straightforward, and never over complicated itself. *A relatively small group made up of security professionals, police, active duty military, and a few civilians held at the US Training Center (USTC) in Moyock, NC. *The training facility had anything you could possibly need and breathing room for drills that could be created or modified on the fly. *Ammo can be purchased from the Pro Shop next to the range as well as any other extra equipment you might need.
On the man himself: *Prior to attending the course, I had heard many things on Larry himself and they were all good. *His resume spoke for itself as not only being of the best but also as a former Delta Force instructor in which he would in turn train the best. *I wasn’t quite sure if Larry would pull up in a gold Trans Am with Bon Jovi’s “Wanted Dead or Alive” blaring on the stereo as he steps out wearing a pair of circa 1983 Gargoyle sunglasses, and a T-shirt that read “100% pure, uncut Larry.” He didn’t rock the “don’t stare directly into my awesomeness” tough guy persona that I was used to dealing with in the security field nor did he present the “let’s get this over with because my wife left for a keyboard player in an REO Speedwagon cover band and I’ve been drinking Thunderbird all night” attitude I’ve endured many times in the past from certain Marine instructors in SOTG (Special Operations Training Group). *Instead, Larry showed up with high energy, hilarious, good natured, and on top of his game; able to coordinate a small to large class with safety as well as efficiency at a level and speed I had not witnessed before. *
On the drills: *The two most important things from my experience are translation and interpretation. *We all knew that Larry was himself capable of shooting Robocop in the lips from 50 yards away from a concealed draw but could he translate his methods in to retainable lessons for the class? *Absolutely. *The answer is the fundamental way he takes simple techniques combining them one by one into groups and then stacking the groups into a fluid motion, taking all of the important aspects of the method and shaving off all of the unneeded or overcomplicated points much the same as Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kun Do method would gather from all of the most effective points of fighting styles and leave the rest. *
The drills start off with basics modified by Larry such as dry firing with shell casings on the front site as a way to always revert back to seeing what went wrong with your shot group. Then the drills escalate to kill remaining trigger snatch or flinching as partner drills are incorporated with your partner (shooting partner not life partner) loading your weapon with your back turned then turning to target and firing at the target which makes it impossible to fool yourself on trigger control. I myself was suffering from the overemphasis on front sight alignment which killed a lot of my shot groups at 20 yards and out that Larry teaches *and proves can be a hindering illusion and can be corrected by proper trigger manipulation over and over again. As I said in translation, you take to the drills very fast and adapt without reverting back to old methods or bad habits because the economy of motion in the weapons manipulation are some of the most logical and fastest I've ever seen. You try them a few times and it work, it just works. Once stacking the drills after a few rotations and your rocking like DIO in ‘86 and ready to proceed on.
The shooting iterations are broken up in a way to keep the whole day high energy and focused so as your staying on your game and don't even notice how much you've been zoned in on task until the end of the day when class ends and your ready to crash out. On interpretation; I refer to being able to read what you are doing wrong or lacking in the drills as well as the instructor’s evaluation on what your doing that needs improvement. After firing and missing a few you can immediately see what you did incorrectly because you know exactly how the shot placement ended up that way and can refer back to previous lessons which takes away much of the "what in the holy living F@#$ happened with that last one?" factor when you drop a shot. If for some reason you can’t, Larry's right there behind you offering instantly assessment because there’s nothing you’ve done to a target that he hasn't seen. "Flinching. *Jerking. *Lean forward more on the balls of your feet. You’re too stiff in your shoulders. *El Snatcho (trigger snatch)! *Why aren't you wearing any pants? *Jesus, are those Reebok pumps you’re wearing? *No, it's not cool if you shoot with a ski mask and ball gag on, get off my range!"
During lunch Larry would always join the group usually at the “Cracker Barrel" which has great food that takes years off your life and is loaded with hot small town waitresses with big city dreams who come to work after the day’s class at their community colleges, making their way through North Carolina's scenic ancient Indian burial grounds, Delorean dealerships, and check cashing/criminal attorney law offices/pawn shops, turned out to be some of the nicest (hottest and unspoiled) servers I've ever encountered.
* We would eat and talk shop discussing the drills, new firearms technology and the other players in the training community. As a testament to Larry's status in the game he was literally flooded with free equipment that was sent in with a request for him to test out and hopefully endorse. *Everybody wanted the OLSA or the Official Larry Seal of Approval. *In fact if his truck were to suddenly explode we would all be killed by fragmentation from laser sites, optics, scope rails, cash and fabulous prizes. The survivors would have to construct tourniquets out of the free shirts people send him all of which there would be plenty of no matter how many times he generously gives away equipment for team shooting prizes.
At lunch I asked Larry if for $100,000 would he wear an awesome red cape to the range with a sponsor's logo sewn on the back and he said NO. I absolutely believed him and to me that was pretty damn impressive, given 2010 is one of the worst years financially for everyone suffering through "The Barackolypse" and the fact that I know tons of shooters that would star in "Brokeback Mountain 2:The Musical - Brokeback On Ice" for $100,000 without thinking twice about it.
On Target
In the course a target with an above and below bullseye are plastered onto a silhouette frame, which is the continued target you fire upon. *Using this type as opposed to the normal man sized silhouette forces you to focus in more than you would normally which in turn causes the shooter to increase his emphasis on trigger control. *Movers were fired upon from varying distances as we were instructed to implement the "tracking" technique of following the target as opposed to the "ambush" method I was used to in Snipers. *Once the drills began there was really not much of a problem because when missing we would simply revert back to the fundamentals we had learned earlier and not be fooled by a new element added into the mix. *Trigger control, aggressive stance, relaxation and good stance. *I say 'not much of a problem' because it took a little getting used to for me and once shooting movers at the 25 yard line and back I missed the target like MC Hammer misses a paycheck and David lee Roth misses food and shelter. *As mentioned before the drills were stacked upon each other consistently and steadily such as the move back steel target fire and shooting on the move. *The drills did not take the drastic giant leaps that many military schools do where you go from shooting on the move to then shooting while running through a MOUT house while being Maced by riot spray that was banned in Mexico. *Many of the students had been graduates of 2 or more Vickers courses and were hitting steel strong hand only at over 100 yards on the walk back drill. The last day were low light drills with and with out the sights and with and without light mounts or lasers. Their methods were impressive due to the speed and how you can learn to be accurate with no illumination in such a short period. *Proving again a wealth of information, Larry was for some reason flooded with a perfect storm of "what if?" questions during the night fire from which laser site is recommended, which one breaks, which grip methods is best, the do's and don'ts of surefire gripping and then a thousand tech questions I had never even heard of on things I didn't even know existed. Larry punched out answers for every single one just as fast as they came. After 10 minutes I admitted to being a little lost on all the new toys coming out because I had been using the same M4, SR-25 and Glock 19 in Iraq for 4 years and hadn't been keeping up with the latest so was just standing in the background dumbfounded as Larry responded with answers like- "Yes. *No. *5.56. You want to stay away from that type. *Here are all the negatives and positives about hand held vs. mounted.7.777777777.89, don't cross the streams. Your dad will probably accept your alternative life choices eventually, just give him time."
Overall
Larry's class was outstanding straightforward and virtually all the drills can be replicated at any range dry or live fire. *Advice was all gospel from one of the most reliable and sought after individuals in the business as well as virtually any technical questions answered from training to gear recommendations to future gadgets coming down the line. The training was invaluable as well as a good time with a great team atmosphere and pace to keep it fun and challenging. I would recommend this course to virtually everyone in the business, in the service or just in it for recreation. Simply outstanding. *5 out of 5.
Damn that was a funny AAR. :sarcastic:
C4
Damn that was a funny AAR. :sarcastic:
C4
Great guy and he is funnier in person... Great stories!
Littlelebowski
11-12-10, 17:58
Update with missing portion added.
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