View Full Version : Thoughts on the HK P30?
I am helping my brother pick out a "bump in the night" pistol for he and his wife and I am considering the HK P30. I have no personal experience with the P30, so I figured I would buy one myself to personally vet it first.
My brother is not at all a fan of Glocks; I tried to put him into a G19, but he does not like the way they shoot or fit his hand.
For those with actual experience on the P30, I much appreciate your thoughts on this pistol.
If your brother is picky, you should probably take him to a gun range and rent a couple of pistols to try out. The P30 is probably one of the most reliable and durable pistols on the market, but like all guns some people don't like the way they feel and handle.
Failure2Stop
10-26-10, 09:34
I have a *little* experience with the P30.
It has a lot of features I prefer in a pistol.
A 9mm P30 LEM V4 will be my next pistol purchase.
gtmtnbiker98
10-26-10, 09:49
I've ran them hard over the last couple of years, ~30,000-rounds through the six that I own. I would say your bigger question would be DA/SA V3 or LEM V1/V2/V4? Some hate the LEM while other's love it. I'm in the DA/SA camp and have shot TDA pistols for so long, anything else seems foreign. If they can overcome the first DA trigger pull then you are good to go.
Another question would be 9mm or .40?
There is a LOT to like about the P30, however IMHO it also has a couple warts. One is easily remedied for a rather high price tag and that is the sights. The stock sights are awful and the replacements are expensive in my opinion. I think they run around $160 for a quality option and I believe there are only 2 on the market. Yes, Glock's need new ones also but there are many more options and are a bit less expensive for suitable replacements.
The second issue for me is the slide stop, it is as long as the great wall of China and takes a lot of work to develop a grip that does not interfere with its function. It can be done but requires a lot of rounds and a lot of time with it. I have found this to be the one universal complaint with the pistol and I am hopeful that someone will come out with a replacement that is more suitable and up to the standards of the rest of the pistol.
Other than the above which is simply my experience there are a LOT of benefits to the pistol. The ergos are top notch, the grip texture offers a very positive grip and it is a very accurate pistol for a hard use pistol. Mags are a little pricey and some people complain about the reset but I find both of the above to be a non issue for me...
1_click_off
10-26-10, 14:09
If I read your post correctly, you are purchasing a P30 to test for your brother and wife and then are going to talk them into getting one if you approve? I highly recommend this pistol as I have one. V3. I also highly recommend the wife goes with your brother and you to check it out at the gun shop. 1. If she doesn't like it, it will be a hard sell for your brother to drop that much on a gun if the main driver for getting it is because it fits her hand so well. Unless she is someone that shoots often or has been exposed to various guns it will be hard to tell her how well it fits her hand if that is the only pistol she has ever held. 2. Now you can work this to you advantage also by letting her hold a M9 first and then the P30. As far as the slide release goes, if it is a first pistol for them you can start with a clean slate for training and correcting any grip issue from the start.
Mine is a bump in the night, right along with me in the car, and in a month or so will be a CC when my Raven comes in. I also added the Streamlight TLR-2s. The only thing I dislike is the factory sights, but they aren't the end of the world either.
As a die-hard Glock guy I can say with 100% certainty that the P30 is what I would carry if I couldn't carry Glocks. They are overbuilt and tough as nails. The ergos are superior to everything and they run forever.
However, the DA/SA or LEM triggers could take some getting used to and could deter your brother from getting one.
If only they'd make a striker fired P30...;)
As a die-hard Glock guy I can say with 100% certainty that the P30 is what I would carry if I couldn't carry Glocks. They are overbuilt and tough as nails. The ergos are superior to everything and they run forever.
However, the DA/SA or LEM triggers could take some getting used to and could deter your brother from getting one.
If only they'd make a striker fired P30...;)
There is rumor of this but one never really knows what ze Germans will do until after they actually do it...:cool:
Lucky Strike
10-26-10, 15:13
I've got an LEM P30 that's made the transition from from V2 to V4 to V1 (spring changes that lightened the weight down to 4.5lbs).
I've also sent it off to Grayguns for their reset reduction action job which has made the trigger really good. It's an expensive mod though.
I like the gun and have adjusted my grip so the slidestop doesn't get held down but I want to buy an extra slidestop and then mill it way shorter to see if I like it that way. I will only do this though if I have a second slidestop so I can go back to stock if I don't like it or want to sell the pistol eventually. I've got a set of Heinie Straight 8's on mine....i've got Straight 8's on all my semi-auto's so the low number of options for sights wasn't an issue for me.
I need to call HK to see if they sell them as spare parts.
I haven't had any issues running factory ammo and only have had one hiccup (FTE which locked the slide up pretty tight) with one of my reloads (i mostly shoot my own reloads)....I don't really blame the gun for that one though since that batch of reloads was made with brass i picked up at my range so there's no telling how many times it'd been loaded.
I had one. It's a good gun. However, there are things that made other platforms better for me. I for one didn't like the heavy first trigger pull, I could not get used to the transition. I also had to adjust my grip to get the slide lock to work properly. If I were going to suggest this gun to a loved one, I would make sure they were comfortable with the DA/SA setup unless you are going to steer them to the LEM. The decocker is also something I would make sure they understood. In stressful situations these things can be forgotten. JW777, and others reminded me that to clear my house with a DA/SA gun, I needed to decock it once I chambered a round. I leave my mags loaded but chamber empty when in the house. This alone, with the trigger,and slide stop made the swap to an M&P much easier. It's just a much simpler manual of arms. I would let them go and handle guns, as long as they pick one from a reputable company, they shouldn't have any probs. They will also be more comfortable with it.
gtmtnbiker98
10-26-10, 19:02
I had one. It's a good gun. However, there are things that made other platforms better for me. I for one didn't like the heavy first trigger pull, I could not get used to the transition. I also had to adjust my grip to get the slide lock to work properly. If I were going to suggest this gun to a loved one, I would make sure they were comfortable with the DA/SA setup unless you are going to steer them to the LEM. The decocker is also something I would make sure they understood. In stressful situations these things can be forgotten. JW777, and others reminded me that to clear my house with a DA/SA gun, I needed to decock it once I chambered a round. I leave my mags loaded but chamber empty when in the house. This alone, with the trigger,and slide stop made the swap to an M&P much easier. It's just a much simpler manual of arms. I would let them go and handle guns, as long as they pick one from a reputable company, they shouldn't have any probs. They will also be more comfortable with it.
Why is decocking an issue and why not chamber a round?
Why is decocking an issue and why not chamber a round?
While decocking isn't so much an issue for me, there are others in my house that may have to use the gun if need be. I am not always at home, and these individuals don't all have the same level of training with handguns.The understanding I have is that the SA trigger is to light, and to short of a stroke to be considered safe for walking around the house searching for that bump you heard.I don't chamber a round because I have a 16 month old daughter,I don't leave it where she has access to it at all, and it's not worth it to me when I can chamber one in less than a second.When my daughter gets older and can understand firearm safety rules and understand them well, this may change.I decided it was just not the right manual of arms for me and moved on.
The only knock on the P30 is that I have to heavily modify my grip to keep from depressing the slide release. If I spent enough time on the P30 and it alone, maybe I could get comfortable with that grip (dominant thumb wrapped over my support thumb), but all my other guns let me grip in the same way I do a 1911
For that alone, I'm thinking of selling my P30 LEM - it's not special enough in any other way to warrant all that work. Accurate, I like the LEM trigger just fine, it's clearly a hardy gun - but I'm no more accurate with it than, say, a Glock.
The sights aren't great but aren't terrible - I took a marker to black out the rears, but it wiped off and now they're just a little darker than the front, which seems to work okay. For H&K's prices, they should come with tritium night sights, but c'est la vie.
Great gun, it's my training gun. I like it in the LEM condition. Replace the trigger return spring with the light one and it has a great press. The springs are difficult to find as they are not the same as the normal HK return spring. One leg is longer than the other.
If you get one of the late models, don't force the slide lock pin out to break it down. The newer one only moves about a quarter inch and it releases the slide.
There will be a new POA/POI sight for it this fall some time from an aftermarket manufacturer.
Not a Glock fan either and IMHO the P30 in LEM has as good if not better than Glock.
Like all the previous guys have commented, the gun is great but you have to train with it to get used to it. It's my favorite gun of all the ones I own, however it has its faults. Mainly for me the trigger and the slide release lever become an issue if I shoot my other guns more often than the P30. I suggest you to try and see if you can shoot one before you buy. Holding a gun and actually shooting it are two different things.
Failure2Stop
10-27-10, 00:55
Having a person that is not proficient at shooting try to determine which gun they should buy based on how they "feel" is about as relevant as buying a vehicle based on which one your dog prefers in beack seats.
Taking the same level of inexperience, having them shoot it first is like basing the first devision on how well the dog can drive the vehicle.
As far as sights go, I have never bought a pistol that came with the sights I prefer, so switching sights is not part of my concern. I take it as a given.
Magic_Salad0892
10-27-10, 04:07
To be honest:
I would never recommend an H&K to somebody inexperienced as a first pistol.
This can be said of all DA/SA guns though, except for revolvers.
I'd say show them the M&P 9. Simpler manual of arms, etc.
An H&K is kind of built for somebody who knows what they want.
gtmtnbiker98
10-27-10, 07:07
To be honest:
I would never recommend an H&K to somebody inexperienced as a first pistol.
This can be said of all DA/SA guns though, except for revolvers.
I'd say show them the M&P 9. Simpler manual of arms, etc.
An H&K is kind of built for somebody who knows what they want....and knows what they are doing.
So glad I came across this thread because I've been debating for awhile whether or not to get one. Ive got some rounds on one but it wasn't enough for me to form a legitimate opinion.
A few questions to those who own one:
Is it more efficient to use your index to release the mag or is it best to use your thumb?
Is the slide release a hindrance because of thumb placement or does it help with the manual of arms because of its size?
gtmtnbiker98
10-27-10, 19:24
So glad I came across this thread because I've been debating for awhile whether or not to get one. Ive got some rounds on one but it wasn't enough for me to form a legitimate opinion.
A few questions to those who own one:
Is it more efficient to use your index to release the mag or is it best to use your thumb?
Is the slide release a hindrance because of thumb placement or does it help with the manual of arms because of its size?Shooting finger to engage mag release is the best way IMO. The slide release is not an issue, once you grow accustomed to it.
Shooting finger to engage mag release is the best way IMO. The slide release is not an issue, once you grow accustomed to it.
Agreed on the mag release but not sure I am on the same page for the mag release.... I have seen some very accomplished shooters with thousands of rounds through them still have issues more often than with other platforms. It very well could be simply hand size dependent though.
The L and S versions I believe have a better part IMHO that is less prone to interference...
gtmtnbiker98
10-27-10, 19:49
Agreed on the mag release but not sure I am on the same page for the mag release.... I have seen some very accomplished shooters with thousands of rounds through them still have issues more often than with other platforms. It very well could be simply hand size dependent though.
The L and S versions I believe have a better part IMHO that is less prone to interference...
I use large side plates and on the S, the safety forces your thumb out and away, not to mention the releases are smaller. I have zero problems, but this is my only platform.
Just like many above, I have issues with slide release and it is preventing me from buying one. I've spent some two hundred rounds loading 1-2 at the time trying to work out a grip, and still couldn't get. A one-handed was particularly bad since I couldn't move thumb out without loss of control. I am hoping for a release of LEM P30S solely for ergonomic issues.
I've put about 50 rnds through one. One of the most comfortable guns to hold. I will be buying one soon.
Magic_Salad0892
10-28-10, 18:06
Off hand thumb actuation of the magazine release works well (better for me) on H&K pistols as well.
I haven't tried it on the P30, but I have on the HK45, 9x19mm USP models, and the P2000. I would assume no different for the P30.
If I am wrong please correct me.
Just like many above, I have issues with slide release and it is preventing me from buying one. I've spent some two hundred rounds loading 1-2 at the time trying to work out a grip, and still couldn't get. A one-handed was particularly bad since I couldn't move thumb out without loss of control.
That is because you are not supposed to use thumb for magazine release. Use your trigger finger or even better middle finger. Off-hand thumb activation is ok, but for fast reloads, like in IPSC/USPSA using trigger/middle finger is fastest and with minimal to none grip shift.
Thanks for the info guys.
That is because you are not supposed to use thumb for magazine release. Use your trigger finger or even better middle finger. Off-hand thumb activation is ok, but for fast reloads, like in IPSC/USPSA using trigger/middle finger is fastest and with minimal to none grip shift.
You misunderstood what I said. I am well familiar with manual of arms and mag release activation; I've been shooting P7 for some time now.
The reason I, as many others, have problem is that huge slide stop and inadvertent activation with my thumb. With two handed grip, I can at least try to roll my thumb out to the side. With one handed grip rolling thumb to the side leads to weaker grip and less control over the gun; keeping thumb in firm grip alongside the frame guarantees inadvertent activation and no-lock on empty. Since P30 is truly ambi, this happens with both strong and weak hands.
Get the damn P30! I love mine, sold my HK45 but kept my P30.....;)
My V3 is popular with everyone who shoots it, especially women. My wife and SIL both learned to shoot with mine. Both of these little ladies were comfortable with its controls, could easily rack the slide, and shot it competently from the first magazine. Its the only pistol in my collection that I'm not allowed to sell.
The only thing I dislike about my P30 is the trigger. It's not horrible, but it's not fantastic either. I've gotten used to it, and can shoot accurately enough with it, but I'm definitely going to get trigger work done. Also, the magwell is not very forgiving. No real bevel to it, and you can't really make it any better.
Everything else about the pistol is a knockout.
I have two questions brought about by this thread:
1: Why would you not recommend an HK or a DA/SA pistol to an inexperienced shooter? The reason I ask is because the HK45c was my first pistol and I'm still very much a noob.
2: For me, using the thumb of my firing hand to drop the mag feels natural. Should I re-learn the way I run my gun and start to use my middle or trigger finger? Or is this one of those "if it ain't broke" kind of deals?
Thanks for permitting this brief hijack :)
John_Wayne777
11-02-10, 10:20
1: Why would you not recommend an HK or a DA/SA pistol to an inexperienced shooter? The reason I ask is because the HK45c was my first pistol and I'm still very much a noob.
Because learning two trigger pulls and the transition between them is often an obstacle for a lot of shooters. Some people take to it with little fuss. Others struggle with it mightily. A consistent trigger from shot to shot is a safer bet for most people than a DA/SA gun.
2: For me, using the thumb of my firing hand to drop the mag feels natural. Should I re-learn the way I run my gun and start to use my middle or trigger finger? Or is this one of those "if it ain't broke" kind of deals?
If you're able to get it done with your thumb, so be it. The lever is ambidexterous so you can figure out a way that works for you. A lot of people struggle with the H&K mag release because they are used to a button and they find it difficult to use the levers as reflexively as they could use the button. Switching to the trigger finger can solve that issue.
gtmtnbiker98
11-02-10, 11:13
I have two questions brought about by this thread:
1: Why would you not recommend an HK or a DA/SA pistol to an inexperienced shooter? The reason I ask is because the HK45c was my first pistol and I'm still very much a noob.
A DA/SA pistol is not a bad choice for the inexperienced shooter. If they are truly inexperienced, then something new is not bad since they don't have any frame of reference. Many shooters do not want to master two trigger pulls; therefore, choosing a consistent trigger to streamline their training. On the other hand, there are those who prefer DA/SA since they are most familiar with this platform.
Don't buy in to DA/SA being an inferior platform, it is not. With training and dedication, you can master any trigger configuration, it all boils down to wanting to. As for me, LEM sucks IMO. Does that make it a bad choice, no. It just isn't my choice. I prefer DA/SA and have absolutely no problem shooting DA/SA. As a matter of fact, I've been shooting DA/SA for so long, I don't even realize the first DA trigger press. To each their own.
That is because you are not supposed to use thumb for magazine release. Use your trigger finger or even better middle finger. Off-hand thumb activation is ok, but for fast reloads, like in IPSC/USPSA using trigger/middle finger is fastest and with minimal to none grip shift.
...and a corresponding chance of having your finger overshoot and curl into the trigger well when you might not want it to.
Big hands? Small hands? Arthritus? Injury? Slick grip because wet with sweat or blood? Cold? Sticky grip because of a revolting nose-picking habit?
The method one is "supposed" to use is the one that nets the 1) fastest, 2) safest, or 3) most sure desired endstate, consistently under varying conditions. Fundamentally impossible to nail down a quantifiable measure as to which of those three (or combination thereof) an individual shooter wants to achieve when you aren't that shooter.
Let's not toss around phrases like "supposed to" when it comes to manual-of-arms with any platform. Nobody gets to dictate that, and none of this stuff came down off of Mt Sinai on stone tablets.
Shaolin, PM coming. I got a story that might help answer your question somewhat, and don't want to clutter this up. Or you can put it up in Training if you can't find other material with Search.
I shot my buddies P30. It is a great gun with wonderful ergonomics. I personally prefer the trigger pull on my M&P but that's what I'm used to. Also, it seemed to have a higher bore axis which caused more muzzle flip. I was impressed by it but didn't really see any reason to switch from my M&P either. I think they are both great guns and would suggest he look at both.
As far as DA/SA (P30, SIG, Beretta etc) vs. Glock/M&P type trigger arguments can be made that neither are "safer" for beginners and both are for the "experienced".
The DA/SA transition has a steeper learning curve as far as working the trigger goes. Even if they know better many new or inexperienced shooters are too often tempted to practice SA only at the range and never decock or practice the DA/SA transition. But the argument goes a heavier initial DA trigger pull is "safer" to carry/use for "beginners".
The Glock/M&P triggers have a consistent easier to learn trigger which means the learning curve tends to faster for most. But the argument goes a lighter initial trigger and lack of safety makes it "less safe" for beginners to carry and use.
So which pistol is better suited for the more "experienced" shooter or beginner? Depends on who you ask.
Bottom line, both types require the end user to use to learn to shoot either proficiently and safely. No free lunch.
Don't buy in to DA/SA being an inferior platform, it is not. With training and dedication, you can master any trigger configuration, it all boils down to wanting to. I prefer DA/SA and have absolutely no problem shooting DA/SA. As a matter of fact, I've been shooting DA/SA for so long, I don't even realize the first DA trigger press. To each their own.
This. My P30 was my first handgun, and with some consistent practice I have zero problems with the "transition". My splits are the same regardless if the first shot is DA or SA.
The reason I, as many others, have problem is that huge slide stop and inadvertent activation with my thumb. With two handed grip, I can at least try to roll my thumb out to the side. With one handed grip rolling thumb to the side leads to weaker grip and less control over the gun; keeping thumb in firm grip alongside the frame guarantees inadvertent activation and no-lock on empty. Since P30 is truly ambi, this happens with both strong and weak hands.
I shoot P30 with 'high grip'. With 2 hands grip I use to have strong hand thumb rest over my weak hand thumb knuckle (weak hand thumb rest side to slide stop). This way I maintain complete grip and do not have problems with slide stop. With one hand shooting I close my thumb around grip under slide stop (unlike I do in STI, but in STI I have safety lever to ride). But some of my friends got themselves P30L in "S" version with safety and shortened slide stop. This may be solution to your problems. Shorter "S" slide stops fit regular P30 as well.
variablebinary
11-04-10, 09:03
The P30 is a solid gun, but I just do not like the way it shoots at all
The trigger is absolutely dreadful. There is just way too much muzzle flip for a 9mm (I haven't shot the .40). The slide lock levers are too long and mess with my grip. The mag release eats under my trigger finger.
It just doesn't feel like a natural shooter like the M&P when you pull the trigger. The M&P has an equally nice ergos but is far easier to pick up, shoot well, and shoot fast.
I describe the M&P as a "shooter's gun" for a very good reason.
John_Wayne777
11-04-10, 09:25
That's an interesting perspective, VB.
Speaking as a guy who has been training with the M&P since 2007 and who has recently gone to the P30 for most of my shooting needs, I hold the opinion that the P30 is a real "shooter's" handgun. When I first tried one I had many of the same gripes about it that you mention. Hell, at first I couldn't even figure out how to reset the trigger.
Me: "Todd...Dude...I think I broke your gun."
As I used it more, however, I found that it grew on me and the stuff I gave the baby-eating-strained-peas reaction to at first went away. It grew on me to the point where I sold some guns and bought a couple.
I agree with your assessment of the M&P...it is a remarkably easy gun to shoot well. With some dedicated practice I've found that the P30 with the right LEM setup is even easier to shoot than the M&P. I'm able to run the P30 every bit as fast as I can run my best M&P, but I'm noticeably more accurate with the P30 than I am with the M&P.
I have a little writeup on my experience with the P30 so far forthcoming on PT.com that will flesh some of this out...but the short version is that with a bit of time and practice I have found that I'm shooting better than I ever have with my P30's.
As a die-hard Glock guy I can say with 100% certainty that the P30 is what I would carry if I couldn't carry Glocks. They are overbuilt and tough as nails. The ergos are superior to everything and they run forever.
However, the DA/SA or LEM triggers could take some getting used to and could deter your brother from getting one.
If only they'd make a striker fired P30...;)
I'll second what M4arc said. I carry a G19 but it's only because I carried Glocks for a long time before my P30L. I sold it to my father because money was tight and I found a great deal on a G19 from a friend.
I shoot the G19 very well but recently fired the HK P30L again. It fits my hand so well that I'd love to get it back but I can't afford it at this time.
With one hand shooting I close my thumb around grip under slide stop (unlike I do in STI, but in STI I have safety lever to ride).
I don't like doing that as it leads to somewhat lower position of a hand on the grip, which is also leads to poorer [as compared to higher hand position] control of a firearm.
But some of my friends got themselves P30L in "S" version with safety and shortened slide stop. This may be solution to your problems. Shorter "S" slide stops fit regular P30 as well.
I am hopeful but I am not holding my breath. I don't want L, and I am not interested in DA/SA trigger. So what I'd like is P30S LEM, and I am not aware of any HK plans to make it available.
So what I'd like is P30S LEM, and I am not aware of any HK plans to make it available.
You can take P30S in any trigger variant and have it converted to LEM. You just need few parts to swap. Actually there are some HK factory made "S"es with LEM in US (don't remember if P30 or P30L).
You can take P30S in any trigger variant and have it converted to LEM. You just need few parts to swap. Actually there are some HK factory made "S"es with LEM in US (don't remember if P30 or P30L).
A few 9mm P30LS pistols with the LEM did end up here.
gtmtnbiker98
11-05-10, 11:56
Just to add information to this thread, my FFL has two P30LS V3 enroute along with a single P30S 9mm V3. These are long awaited by many. If anybody is interested in the FFL information, send me a PM.
Speaking as a guy who has been training with the M&P since 2007 and who has recently gone to the P30 for most of my shooting needs, I hold the opinion that the P30 is a real "shooter's" handgun. I have a little writeup on my experience with the P30 so far forthcoming on PT.com that will flesh some of this out...but the short version is that with a bit of time and practice I have found that I'm shooting better than I ever have with my P30's.
I am looking forward to this write up. I believe it will mirror my experience, with the exception that my comparison is with Glock 9mm's of various sizes.
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