View Full Version : Rifle Dilemma
I am in a dilemma. I have a bunch of overtime pay coming in November, so I can move up a planned purchase of a new rifle. The problem is I don’t know which rifle I want to get. I already have a DDM4 midlength (damn good rifle!) and a KAC SR15E3 (super rifle!) so I am looking at:
Arsenal SLR-106 (5.56 rifle with folding stock): I like the idea of an AK style rifle without adding another caliber to my inventory. Plans would be the Templar set up: Ultimak, mini Aimpoint, and offset flashlight. I will probably add the Krebs enhanced AK safety. There is just something about an AK style rifle that I really like. To me it is like a Glock 9mm (1st, 2nd, or 3rd Gen) it is beautiful in an ugly way.
Or
Steyr (via Sabre) AUG A3: I have really wanted one these for a long time. Love the concept of having a short rifle without having to go through SBR process and cost. Plans would be an Aimpoint or 3x ACOG on it and a light of some type.
Between these two, the cost of the magazines is about the same, as I plan on using the circle 10 mags from KVAR for the Arsenal.
BTW, I am ONLY looking at these two choices. Any advice or suggestions will be appreciated.
Well, I voted for the SLR-106, and here's why.....
The SLR-106 uses a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel with a 1/7" twist, and handles just about anything you want to shoot out of it. The Steyr/Sabre AUG A3 uses a 1/9" twist button rifled barrel.
The folding stock allows for a very compact package for storage or getting in and out of vehicles.
You can shoot from either shoulder without any funky tactics or after market devices, which you can't with the AUG A3.
Stick with the ((10)) Bulgarian magazines from K-Var. There are some clone magazines out there that look very similar but are US made from Promag.
I also wanted an AUG since I was a teen in the 80's working in gun shops back then, but then actually shooting them....that trigger just sucks, and you can't easily shoot from the off shoulder. The trigger can be "fixed" and there are some work arounds, but the ability to shoot from the off shoulder is not an easy work around with the AUG.
lloydkristmas
10-26-10, 16:58
I dont pretend to know the future, but I see the AUG becoming sort of a collectors item if they keep up the very limited production numbers that they currently maintain. I want to say something like 2000 AUG A3's have been produced, many of which have not yet sold. Its a great gun, however it does come with many of the 'Bullpup Quirks' that the user has to learn to work around.
I dont know what your current gun collection looks like, but while both are perfectly viable combat weapons, I'd choose the AK for more of a 'serious' role, and the AUG for more of a 'fun' role.
The AUG is definately more unique, but the AK is....well, its an AK, and thats pretty hard to beat. I had a similar dilemma not too long ago, but it was between the AUG A3, the FS2000, and the SCAR instead.
crusader377
10-26-10, 17:22
I would go with the SLR-106. I have minimal experience with the AUG but for some reason bullpups just feel very awkward to me. I'm sure the AUG is a great rifle but I just prefer the AK platform. I think Templar gave several good reasons why a SLR-106 is a better choice than the AUG. An additional reason is the SLR-106 is less expensive.
but the ability to shoot from the off shoulder is not an easy work around with the AUG.
Viola!
http://www.manticorearms.com/images/1277270197745-232809447.jpeg
http://www.manticorearms.com/images/1277270198476-1745257652.jpeg
http://www.manticorearms.com/Brass-Buster-brass-deflector-MA-200BK.htm
Viola!
http://www.manticorearms.com/images/1277270197745-232809447.jpeg
http://www.manticorearms.com/images/1277270198476-1745257652.jpeg
http://www.manticorearms.com/Brass-Buster-brass-deflector-MA-200BK.htm
I was very interested in this until I watched the video at the bottom of the product description. You have to pre-test its position with 10 rounds of each type of ammo you use. When using on the off shoulder, you have to position your head, shoulder, and body in a real weird posture.
I voted for the AUG. Really they both do the same thing. I would recommend handling both too see which you like the best.
I own a MSAR STG556 with a trigger lite ($40) and a IOR 3X25 compact. The trigger is better then my AR15 but not as smooth as an Arsenal. It has a 16'' 1/8 twist barrel. After a little over 1000 rounds through it, mostly steel case wolf, with out any hiccups I think it is just as reliable as an AK. I sold an Arsenal AK to help fund my purchase. I would not trade the STG556 for two Arsenal AK's. And I unstand Arsenal are top of the line.
Viola!
http://www.manticorearms.com/images/1277270197745-232809447.jpeg
http://www.manticorearms.com/images/1277270198476-1745257652.jpeg
http://www.manticorearms.com/Brass-Buster-brass-deflector-MA-200BK.htm
Brass Buster really is not needed. Just tilt the bullpup one way or the other. Not a big deal.
I like Arsenal I have a "classic" underfolder. I personally think the AK should be a 7.62 or 5.45x39.
I also have a Steyr A3 with an ACOG TA-33R8. I hit gongs at 500 meters everytime from a rest. You said you always wanted one so go for it. You can always get the Arsenal later. I don't know how much longer the A3 will be available. At least for awhile.
Personally, I think the AUG A3 is a superb rifle and fits me very well. It is reliable and well built. Many of the so called short comings like the trigger or shooting offhand are not that difficult to train around or become accustomed to.
However, that said Steyr has temporarily halted production of the AUG A3 until the market improves some. They have publicly stated that production will resume in the future, and that parts and service will remain unaffected in the mean time. Still, it is something to consider. However, compared to an AK or AR, it will always be a niche rifle with small but loyal following.
I'm not a huge fan of AKs in 5.56. If your choice was between an Arsenal in 5.45 or 7.62x39 the recommendation would be much harder for me to make, since I firmly believe all black rifle owners should have an AR and an AK. But with your two choices, I am going with AUG A3...
No Bananas
11-07-10, 09:50
I've heard that the SLR-106 is not as reliable as the same platform in 7.62x39/5.45x39. Regardless of what mag you use. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it won't function or that it's a piece of junk. Far from it. Just heard from many users that it isn't as reliable in 5.56mm/.223.
I've heard that the SLR-106 is not as reliable as the same platform in 7.62x39/5.45x39. Regardless of what mag you use. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it won't function or that it's a piece of junk. Far from it. Just heard from many users that it isn't as reliable in 5.56mm/.223.
That was indeed an issue in the very first batch that Arsenal Inc. released. The fix was actually pretty simple, add a small feed ramp with a Dremel and it pretty much took care of any issues.
In the first AK class that Vickers held, there were 16 students. Eight of us used the then brand new SLR-106 series. Of those 8, four were basically unusable because they needed that little bit of feed ramp to aid in feed geometry. Arsenal took care of that and I wouldn't have a problem buying another one.
The AK-47/AKM/and AK-74 series use cartridges that have a fairly severe taper and make feeding very reliable. The straighter profile of the 5.56x45mm requires a little more thought to transfer to the AK system.
If your SLR-106 will have issues, it will have it in the first magazine. If it doesn't, you won't have any.
My personal 106 was from the first batch, it's run like a scalded dog with brass cased, steel cased, 55 gr. 62 gr., FMJ and JHP, with Arsenal Bulgaria black or smoke waffle mags, both 30 and 20 rounders.
So I guess the short of it is....any SLR-106 that Arsenal is currently putting out shouldn't have any reliability issues.
No Bananas
11-07-10, 13:08
Hey Templar,
Out of curiosity, how does the accuracy on th SLR-106 stack up against the Aug? A while back I bumped into a guy at the range w/ one that was pretty accurate even for an Arsenal (which are damn accurate for AKs). I had an Arsenal SA-M7 (sold it and regret it...EVERYDAY!), which was the most accurate AK (in 7.62) I've ever shot. This 106 was nearly as accurate as an AR, at 50 yds (open sights).
I've shot the MSAR, but not an actual AUG. I've heard that there isn't much difference between the accuracy of the AUG & MSAR. The MSAR's groups were a little loose at 50 yds. compared to an AR. I'd be a little nervous to shoot it at 100 (just because I'm not that great a shot, not because it isn't capable. It is). In my limited experience, I'd actually say that the 106 is more accurate than the MSAR. Interested to get your input. I'm sure the OP is too. Thanks.
Hey Templar,
Out of curiosity, how does the accuracy on th SLR-106 stack up against the Aug? A while back I bumped into a guy at the range w/ one that was pretty accurate even for an Arsenal (which are damn accurate for AKs). I had an Arsenal SA-M7 (sold it and regret it...EVERYDAY!), which was the most accurate AK (in 7.62) I've ever shot. This 106 was nearly as accurate as an AR, at 50 yds (open sights).
I've shot the MSAR, but not an actual AUG. I've heard that there isn't much difference between the accuracy of the AUG & MSAR. The MSAR's groups were a little loose at 50 yds. compared to an AR. I'd be a little nervous to shoot it at 100 (just because I'm not that great a shot, not because it isn't capable. It is). In my limited experience, I'd actually say that the 106 is more accurate than the MSAR. Interested to get your input. I'm sure the OP is too. Thanks.
Having shot both, I'd honestly say, if we're talking off hand, unsupported, that it's going to be the Indian, not the bow, that makes the difference.
bondmid003
11-07-10, 22:09
So which one did you end up buying? Details man!
So which one did you end up buying? Details man!
I'm going to probably go with the SGL 31-94
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17659&cat=354&page=1
If that is not available the first of December (have to wait to next big payday!) then I will go with the SLR106.
I'm going to probably go with the SGL 31-94
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17659&cat=354&page=1
If that is not available the first of December (have to wait to next big payday!) then I will go with the SLR106.
Now thats a good choice! I said in my original recommendation that I would not recommend a 5.56 over the AUG A3, but that a 5.45/7.62 would be different. I really think everyone should have both an AR and an AK before they start to consider niche rifles like the AUG (and I love my AUG)...
...Good choice
ETA: I may get one too if funds allow after Christmas...
If you buy an AK in a traditional caliber (5.45 or 7.62x39) make sure that you have access to a range that allows steel cased ammunition. If you are limited to brass cased ammunition and you are an avid shooter then your ammunition costs will quickly surpass the cost of the gun.
Just an UPDATE!
I ended up going with the.........................Steyr AUG A3. There is really something I like about that rifle and since they stopped producing them for right now, I had to get one. I should have it paid off and in my hands by Christmas......Hey the best gifts are the ones you give yourself!:D
Thanks to everyone who responded and gave advice. I know the AK47/74 variant will be purchased sometime in 2011!
I think the AUG is far cooler-looking, but the SLR-106 may be more practical if it has the rugged reliability of a AK.
mbogo
Just an UPDATE!
I ended up going with the.........................Steyr AUG A3. There is really something I like about that rifle and since they stopped producing them for right now, I had to get one. I should have it paid off and in my hands by Christmas......Hey the best gifts are the ones you give yourself!:D
Thanks to everyone who responded and gave advice. I know the AK47/74 variant will be purchased sometime in 2011!
Cool. You'll love it... They are great rifles
mkmckinley
11-20-10, 14:00
I would get the AK personally. Why not get it in 5.45 or 7.62? You can get the cheap surplus ammo it was designed for.
I would get the AK personally. Why not get it in 5.45 or 7.62? You can get the cheap surplus ammo it was designed for.
After doing some checking, 2 of the 3 ranges I use won't allow the steel case and corrosive ammo on their ranges. The third that does is a much farther drive with a lot less offered at that location.
After doing some checking, 2 of the 3 ranges I use won't allow the steel case and corrosive ammo on their ranges.
They probably collect and sell the spent cases left behind by non-reloaders.
mbogo
If you buy an AK in a traditional caliber (5.45 or 7.62x39) make sure that you have access to a range that allows steel cased ammunition. If you are limited to brass cased ammunition and you are an avid shooter then your ammunition costs will quickly surpass the cost of the gun.
Are you talking steel cased or steel jacketed ammo? I've seen prohibitions on the steel jacket ammo but not steel cased or corrosive ammo. I do remember shooting the old Chinese mild steel core ammo at big rocks at a distance - as it got darker you could really see the sparks from the steel...
An Aug has always been a rifle I wanted. I think I would grab one if they were offering it in 1/7 twist versus 1/9 twist. There is a good article in the most recent G&A Combat Tactics - great description from a guy who uses his a lot.
I did get an SLR106FR a few years back - a company was trying to get interest in their web sales so they were selling them for around $550 - I just couldn't pass it up...
Spooky
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