the next one on my list

[coyote hunter]

Howdy, I've been looking for a 1911 for a bit, but I could still use a bit of advice.

I have a Ruger P85mkII in 9mm that I've realized is...not so nice.:sad:

So as soon as I can I'm going to sell the Ruger and move to the .45 side of the table.

I've been looking in to Para USA, after I saw the 2000 round torture test I was sold. But I've also been looking into Springfield, like the GI

So that’s my roundabout way of asking "what’s a good starter 1911 that’s a good all purpose gun?'

I plan on mainly using it for poking holes in paper, but as soon as Concealed Carry is legalized in this state (WI) I would most likely carry it as well, so reliability is a must.

Advice appreciated!
Thanks!

[Dirk Williams]

Im gonna get strung up here however I won't come off my observation. I have several 1911's been carrying one on duty for the better part of 25 years.

2 years ago I purchased a Tauras 1911 and simply think it's a fantastic weapon. A fella named Clint Smith did a torture test on the Tauras with I believe 5000 rounds and had 1 mal-funtion. An extractor broke.

500.00 and all the up grades already incorporated into the weapon. I have a very high oppinion of this pistol and will purchase another in the future.

I did change the grips which say Tauras. I then let some of my amego's shoot the pistol. EVERYONE of them at some point commented on how well my KIMBER shot.

Just my oppinion most of these guys will bock and tell you to stay away from the tauras their junk. Hell most haven't even held or shot one. They will tell you to spend the 1500 2000 plus on a 1911
Kimber/colt/springfield/wilson etc,etc.

Do your self a favor and at least take the time to physically look at one along with one of these others. You won't be able to tell the difference except for the name on the slide.

D Williams

[willowofwisp]

]

Just my oppinion most of these guys will bock and tell you to stay away from the tauras their junk. Hell most haven't even held or shot one. They will tell you to spend the 1500 2000 plus on a 1911
Kimber/colt/springfield/wilson etc,etc.



I will tell you from experience that Taurus 1911's at least the one my grandpa owned was junk...he got it in a trade about 3 years ago and right after he got it i ran the gun through several PPC practices and once i hit 400 rounds the thumb safety broke...I had issues with the grip bushing falling out and the slide stop broke right at 2,000 rounds..all in a months time.

for the money I would rather have a springfield than a Taurus..In my experience they are junk

[coyote hunter]

I made the choice to not buy a Taurus a few years ago, I've never liked anything that they made other than the judge, and to me that's more of a novelty gun than anything. But aside from my opinions of Taurus....

At this point I'm thinking a Para GI expert, $500 and all the bells and whistles I want in a handgun. But if anyone has info on Para that I should know about, please let me know.

Sorry to shoot down Taurus, I just never liked the brand

[Bolt_Overide]

I gotta say that if you dont know how to maintain and tune a 1911 you do NOT want to rely on it as your primary weapon, especially if youre going to get an iffy brand like taurus or para.

I would suggest looking at an M&P or a Glock.

[E53001]

under the 1k price range, id look at Springfield Arm, or a new/used Colt Series 70, And if you can swing a couple to few hundred more, i believe STI makes some models in that range and Ed Brown Les Beaer and no, i didnt forget about kimber,taurus,para, they are junk in my mind

[willowofwisp]

You can find a used les baer for 1200 or so or new for 15000
under the 1k price range, id look at Springfield Arm, or a new/used Colt Series 70, And if you can swing a couple to few hundred more, i believe STI makes some models in that range and Ed Brown Les Beaer and no, i didnt forget about kimber,taurus,para, they are junk in my mind

[Dirk Williams]

Im sorry your grandpa's gun didn't work. I have not experienced it.

As for the problems you listed, I HAVE experienced these problems with many other 1911 pistols in the past 25 years from Kimber's to Springfield's to Para to Colts 70 & 80 series.

Back to the Tauras, Ive never had a failure to feed, a failure to fire or any other problem. Im happy with the pistol and will purchase another in the future.

For 500.00 I can do alot of Fixn should I need to.
Good luck on your quest, I hope you find a pistol that meets your needs.

D Williams

[stifled]

If your budget won't accommodate a custom pistol, you want to get the best quality production pistol you can in your range. For my money, S&W makes an excellent production 1911. My sample size of one is simply an amazing machine for what I paid. It was shooting better than me from the factory without any futzing. That said, they don't all come from the factory perfect--no production 1911 does.

If your budget will accommodate a little bit over $1k, check out a used Les Baer for sure. I've shot a couple of these and they are flat-out awesome guns. I would get one for carrying, but typically when I carry I want something a little bit more compact with higher capacity. I've also read that some custom 1911s are finicky with ammo, simply because everything is built to such tight tolerances, so if you go this route definitely fully vet any ammo you intend to carry. I do carry my S&W now and then, but typically only in the colder months where a bulky coat makes concealing it and a couple spare magazines easy.

I'd suggest staying away from any budget 1911. The money you save isn't worth the lack of QC at the factory, in my opinion. You could get lucky and get a good one--but you could also be gearing yourself up to send the gun back to the manufacturer multiple times to get it to work.

[willowofwisp]

Im sorry your grandpa's gun didn't work. I have not experienced it.

As for the problems you listed, I HAVE experienced these problems with many other 1911 pistols in the past 25 years from Kimber's to Springfield's to Para to Colts 70 & 80 series.

Back to the Tauras, Ive never had a failure to feed, a failure to fire or any other problem. Im happy with the pistol and will purchase another in the future.

For 500.00 I can do alot of Fixn should I need to.
Good luck on your quest, I hope you find a pistol that meets your needs.

D Williams


my biggest thing with 1911's is i feel if you buy a 1911 under 1000$ your taking a roll of the dice..you may get a gun that runs awesome or get a POS that doesn't make it a whole mag without issues...some people get lucky some dont

[coyote hunter]

So I've seen some of you say that Para & Kimber are a bit lower in quality. What makes you think so? I have minimal experience with both companies. I've never heard badly of Kimber or Para. I just personally don't like Glocks I can say I have owned one..... For about two hours. I was lucky enough to pick up a Glock 23 in .40 for $300. I called a buddy who needed a gun for the Police academy and sold it to him, but that’s a different story.

The main reason I have discounted Glocks for carry is two main reasons. No exposed hammer and no "safety" switch. I do know that they are just feel good switches, but that’s just me.

So if anyone has a personal experience, link to hard evidence, or anything against Para please post it, I'm still leaning toward the GI expert, but I am always looking for more info on a purchase.

$500 is still a large amount of money to me, and anything over $800 is just about out of reach for me right now.

Like I said in the original post CC is not legal yet in my state, and I won't be buying a "defensive only" handgun until it is, If I can buy a fun gun that will satisfy that use too, I'm all for it.

[coyote hunter]

After a bit more searching I have discounted Para. MULTIPLE reviews stating that the hammer dropped when the slide was released. :eek:

Clearly NOT anything I want in any gun

So now the search is brought back to square one.

Who has thoughts on a Springfield GI?

Or should I just search for a decent used 70 series Colt?

Starting to realize that quality comes with a price, why can't manufacturers just sell things at cost? :sarcastic::sarcastic:

[willowofwisp]

I vote decent used colt series 70 or Springfield Mil-Spec

[amac]

FWIW, you may want to check out the Rock Island 1911's. They fit the budget category and have some nice features. Here is a link to a great review... http://www.m1911.org/ezine/RIATactical.htm Personally, I say save up and pay the extra. Shop gunbroker for a good 1911 with a new retail of $1500+. You will have less worries and more confidence, especially if you plan to carry. Good luck!

[sff70]

Leading contenders would be a Springfield Armory "Loaded" model, Colt New Series 70, or Colt XSE.

If you're talking defensive purposes, any of the sub 1k 1911s will need a qualified person to go through them to ensure they are going to work 100%.

Also know that for defensive purposes, in the sub 1k price range, you're much better off with a Glock or M&P.

[dennisuello]

I'm not a 1911 guy, used to have a Kimber (excellent), but sold it. A friend of mine recently pointed me to a new 1911 from Desert Eagle. Looks pretty loaded for the price.

[coyote hunter]

Leading contenders would be a Springfield Armory "Loaded" model, Colt New Series 70, or Colt XSE.

For the last hour or so, I've been google-ing the "Loaded" and I like it. I think I have a new front runner!

Now I have to go to the gun shop and handle one of these......... aww shucks

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Paul45]

I have Colts, WC's, Les Baers, Ed Brown's and custom built 1911's. I have managed to break something on all brands.
I have found out you get what you pay for in 1911's. Buyer beware! My G30's and G21' work longer and require less attention but they do not "FEEL" right. My XD45 tactical work well but the FEEL is not right. Nothing feels, shoots, looks and give as much satisfaction at a quality 1911.

[Jitterbug]

I'm in a similar boat, I'm looking for a 5" full size to compliment my two carry 1911's, an aluminum Kimber Compact and a Dan Wesson Commander CBOB in 10mm.

The full sized will be a "range gun" and I'm trying to choose between a Kimber Custom II, used Colt 70/80 and I recently discovered the STI Spartan which sells in the just over $600, however I've yet to find a local dealer with one I can fondle.

I checked out a couple of RIA's yesterday a Government model for $399 and their "Tactical" model for $499. The $399 had an as good a trigger as my Kimber and better then the Dan Wesson, and on par or better then a new $975 Colt XSE Commander I tried out at the shop.

I couldn't get over how good the $399 gun "felt".

The $499 Tactical had a bit of creep and a mushy safety.

Regarding the Spartan, from my understanding STI sends their internals over to the Philippines and RIA/Armscor assembles the the components inside their frame and slide.

I'm really liking the wife's M&P9c and I started out thinking I needed a FS M&P as a range gun in .45acp. So it's difficult to make a decision.

I may just go with a M&P and a trigger job and call it good...but I'm going to check out some "low end" 1911's for now.

[Pappabear]

You can buy a "cheaper" anything and it might work great. Its just you are rolling the dice as it has already been stated. I looked at Scottsdale Gun Club for a friend yesterday, and they sell SA Light Weight Operator $1,099. That would be a great starter IMHO. They sell online as well.

Very tight fit, a little lighter for carry ( But not light 34oz). If you could swing that $$$$, you would be GTG.

[mkmckinley]

So I've seen some of you say that Para & Kimber are a bit lower in quality. What makes you think so? I have minimal experience with both companies. I've never heard badly of Kimber or Para. I just personally don't like Glocks I can say I have owned one..... For about two hours. I was lucky enough to pick up a Glock 23 in .40 for $300. I called a buddy who needed a gun for the Police academy and sold it to him, but that’s a different story.

The main reason I have discounted Glocks for carry is two main reasons. No exposed hammer and no "safety" switch. I do know that they are just feel good switches, but that’s just me.

So if anyone has a personal experience, link to hard evidence, or anything against Para please post it, I'm still leaning toward the GI expert, but I am always looking for more info on a purchase.

$500 is still a large amount of money to me, and anything over $800 is just about out of reach for me right now.

Like I said in the original post CC is not legal yet in my state, and I won't be buying a "defensive only" handgun until it is, If I can buy a fun gun that will satisfy that use too, I'm all for it.

In the $1000 price range you're going to get a lot of MIM with may or may not be important. It has its applications in parts like a grip safety. IMO the thumb safety, slide stop, and other critical components that are subjected to reasonable stress are not good places to have MIM. In the $1000 dollar price range you aren't going to get as much fitting or as many tool steel parts as, say, a $1600 Les Baer. You get what you pay for.

Based on what you've said in your thread your requirements are:
.45 ACP
thumb safety
exposed hammer
carry-worthy reliability
...for less than $1000.

I think your best bet is probably to save toward an HK45. It's sort of the 21st century offspring of the 1911 in terms of functionality.

I hate to steer you away from a 1911. I love the platform and I own three. That said, the only one I'd feel comfortable carrying would be a Les Baer that cost $2200 new and that would be on the rare occasion I felt like carrying a 36oz gun with only 8 round in the mag. There are a lot of things engineered into the better modern guns that weren't even considered 100 years ago. A $900 HK45 makes a $900 1911 obsolete. You have to pay a lot more for a 1911 to get the reliability, accuracy, longevity, corrosion resistance, and shootability of a lesser modern weapon. If you really only have $500 to spend and want a pistol worthy of defending yourself you may want to come to terms with a Glock or M&P45. There a lot of shooters that can perform very well with those guns with a little training. You can get a thumb safety on an M&P45.

[mkmckinley]

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/hk45_general.asp

[coyote hunter]

At this point, I've decided on a Springfield "loaded" it’s still under $1000 but not by as much as where I thought I was going to be with a final price on this. I've handled the gun at the shop, and I like it, better trigger than my Ruger, and it’s a 1911, what’s not to like?

Carry isn't legal yet (in my state), so I'm not buying this as a carry gun.

I do believe I will eventually "come to terms" with a Glock when carrying is legal, but that could be a ways away.


Right now, I'm having a hard time believing all of you with the $1000 minimum for a 1911, but I bet before I'm done with a 1911 I'll understand. I just have a hard time grasping that concept, but whatever. It's not a carry gun, it’s a range gun. I started with the hopes of buying a "do all 1911" for a price I like. But it doesn’t seem like that’s going to happen.


Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Jitterbug]

Coyote

I haven't read through all the posts, but, some of the advice was really sound, especially going with the M&P .45 if you want affordable and something you can rely upon without having to "tinker" with it. At least from what I've read...my wife has a M&P9c, with low round count, a buddy put 5-6k through a .40 and another buddy with a .40 is on 1k or so, with no issues what so ever, other then a lousy trigger. I've had a couple of Glocks, while good guns, they usually go bang, I don't regret selling them. I'd take an M&P over a Glock any time, just based on ergonomics.

I've had 3 1911's and I'm shopping for a 4th, a "budget" range gun so this thread caught my eye.

I have a 4" Kimber Compact CDP II and a Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm, both of these are carry guns, both of these needed some work, brand new, out of the box, both of these cost over a $1000.00. Both of them run pretty good right now...

I recently sold a Colt 80 series, that was a really nice pistol...still kicking self, but I needed the cash as the moment.

I'm not a cop, soldier or some such, just an average Joe who CCW's, target shoots, and hunts. If needed I'm about 99.1% certain my guns will run.

With one certain mag my CBOB will choke, which is good for clearing practice...only takes a second.

But...if I were one of the above and wanted 99.999% I'd probably carry something different, like the M&P.

I've narrowed my under $1000, 1911 to a Kimber Custom II, an STI Spartan and possibly a Springfield loaded, or if I can find one a decent Colt, however on the 1911 forums the current crop of Imbel Springfield's are getting a bad rap, so I may just go with the Kimber, I've yet to handle a Spartan but have read lots and lots of good stuff about them and STI backs them up...Google is your friend.

I haven't yet made a decision yet and I intend to keep shopping and handling guns, this is important because no two are the same, this is true of guns other then 1911's.

But, until I rule out the Spartan, I'm leaning towards the Kimber Custom II for around $750 ish.

Kimber customer service is decent if needed.

[friendlyfireisnt]

Just my oppinion most of these guys will bock and tell you to stay away from the tauras their junk. Hell most haven't even held or shot one. They will tell you to spend the 1500 2000 plus on a 1911
Kimber/colt/springfield/wilson etc,etc.

D Williams

I picked one up in a trade a few months ago, for a couple reasons. First, I picked up a lightly modified Springfield Mil-Spec the same day, and I wanted a back up. Second, I wanted a pistol with a few mods so I could decide what I really wanted/needed on a 1911 pistol, rather than just fondling them in a store and making a decision that way. Third, I wanted a pistol I could keep in my jeep, and not worry about it getting beat up or thrashed.

Your Taurus might work great, and Clint Smith's might work great too, but shooting mine was an exercise in frustration. Constant FTE and FTF with multiple brands of quality factory ammo, and multiple types of magazines (CMC, Wilson, Taurus, Kimber, USGI, etc).

Taurus has repaired it, but I haven't had a chance to shoot it since to see. I probably won't trust it for a long time, if ever.

On the flip side, my Springfield, which as I mentioned is lightly modified works perfectly fine, and is my new CCW piece.

[mkmckinley]

Just my oppinion most of these guys will bock and tell you to stay away from the tauras their junk. Hell most haven't even held or shot one. They will tell you to spend the 1500 2000 plus on a 1911
Kimber/colt/springfield/wilson etc,etc.

Do your self a favor and at least take the time to physically look at one along with one of these others. You won't be able to tell the difference except for the name on the slide.

D Williams

I respect your experience but I would argue that most people who buy a Taurus haven't held or shot a Wilson.

I played the 1911 game and bought an entry level Kimber before trading up a few times and ending up with a Baer. After training with 1911's and learning as much as I could about them I wouldn't tell anyone to buy a $2000 1911 if they want a duty ready gun for less than $2000. That's what Glocks and M&Ps are for. Given the fitting and parts quality required to make one reliable a 1911 is not something I would feel comfortable cheaping out on.

[Swamp Yankee]

Hey I am also fairly new to the world of 1911's.

I recently purchased a used Springfield TRP model for around $650 at my local gun shop. I really wanted a railed model, but all that was available near me with rails was the Kimber Custom II series which I will not buy. So I settled for the non-railed TRP. The TRP is an awesome option and if you do your research I am sure you can find one near you.

[BBossman]

The subject of "offshore" versus quality "domestic" 1911's has been beat to death here and on every other firearms forum. The only thing I will add is, if you want a 1911 just for the sake of owning a 1911, get what you can afford. But, if you want a 1911 for future QUALITY custom work, get a Colt or Springfield, something a smith will actually work on.

[hill]

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-q99-COLT_PISTOLS.aspx

About 800.00 bucks most places...;)

[Jitterbug]

But, if you want a 1911 for future QUALITY custom work, get a Colt or Springfield, something a smith will actually work on.

Probably very good advice...

[Rinspeed]

Hey I am also fairly new to the world of 1911's.

I recently purchased a used Springfield TRP model for around $650 at my local gun shop. I really wanted a railed model, but all that was available near me with rails was the Kimber Custom II series which I will not buy. So I settled for the non-railed TRP. The TRP is an awesome option and if you do your research I am sure you can find one near you.



Your local gun shop must not be all that bright as I've never seen a TRP go for less than a grand, $650 is a steal.

[Swamp Yankee]

Your local gun shop must not be all that bright as I've never seen a TRP go for less than a grand, $650 is a steal.

Well I bought it used as well. It has some modifications to it, such as a GI Length guide rod and some other features, but overall the thing is in fantastic shape! I sold my old Colt and my Kimber about a year ago and have been without a 1911 ever since. The TRP is my first venture back into the world of 1911's and I am very happy with it. I think I am going to wait until the Colt Rail Guns are more available in my area to purchase a railed 1911.

To the OP. The TRP is forged in Brasil, but assembled in the US. The quality is top notch and if you check out the articles on the 10-8 website, the TRP is one of the only production models that Hilton Yam recomends for duty use. The Operators are a great choice too, but they are in high demand as well right now.

[coyote hunter]

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-q99-COLT_PISTOLS.aspx

About 800.00 bucks most places...;)

What is the benefit of the Colt versus the Loaded (http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=4)

or the other way around?

Is the fact that its a Colt the reason, or are there significant quality difference?

Price wise they're a stones throw apart.

[gigag04]

I'm a pretty intense brand snob, I'll admit. When I saw them, I wanted to hate the Rock Island Armory guns. They're so cheap they have to be junk.

Truth, they actually have a good reputation and run well. Even in the forum communities they have a good following. They leave something to be desired for sure, but for avg range and ccw use, I think they are the best value out there.

[gigag04]

Multiple post - Tapatalk acting up

[gigag04]

Multiple post - Tapatalk acting up

[Jitterbug]

Well I just handled a Colt XSE Stainless going for $875 or so, and a Springfield Loaded Target with adjustable Trijicons for around $940, the Colt had a slightly better trigger, I really like the sights on the Springfield, although the trigger had a bit of creep in it. Both hand cycled smoothly, I didn't really care for the magwell and some sort of black plastic type grips on the Springfield.

I was hoping to get my hands on a Colt Combat Elite, I assume the XSE stainless is the same gun excepting the finish.

Both nice guns...I'm leaning towards Colt and it's the name thing, because it's a Colt, plus and this is somewhat important to me, it's American made.

That said, I haven't been able to handle a STI Spartan yet, and yes the Rock Island Armory's appear to be impressive...after dry firing several Colts and a Springfield, and two RIA's the least expensive $399 RIA had the cleanest trigger of the bunch...go figure.

And I am a trigger snob.

[glockkid88]

"If you treat your guns like you treat your lawnmower, buy a glock"-Ken Hackathorn

[glockkid88]

All joking aside, I bought a STI spartan for my first and only 1911. It had so many issues that I couldn't diagnose that I said thats it for me and went with glocks. If you don't know a 1911 in and out and can't completely maintain a 1911 then you are probably in store for a disapointing purchase. Especially if it is your only handgun.

[coyote hunter]

"If you treat your guns like you treat your lawnmower, buy a glock"-Ken Hackathorn

I know I'm rather new here but I think this is called "trolling" right?

thanks for the advice

[mkmckinley]

That said, I haven't been able to handle a STI Spartan yet, and yes the Rock Island Armory's appear to be impressive...after dry firing several Colts and a Springfield, and two RIA's the least expensive $399 RIA had the cleanest trigger of the bunch...go figure.

And I am a trigger snob.

I can relate to that. I have had a trigger job done on just about every gun I plan on hanging onto. I had the chance to talk to a great 1911 gunsmith at Shooter's Supply on Bragg Blvd. in Fayettville, NC and get a little free education on 1911's. The thing with a good 1911 trigger job is that it has an expiration date. With good tool steel parts it's going to last a really long time but not forever. Crappy parts can start to change noticeably within four-digit round counts. I'm assuming Colt still uses tool steel for the hammer and sear which a decent gunsmith should be able to turn into something amazing for less than $50.

If a manufacturer uses soft steel or even MIM it won't hold that trigger feel for very long and your gunsmith will have to put in brand new parts if he does a trigger job. You can't polish a turd. Another thing to consider is that if a manufacturer uses MIM on something critical like a hammer or sear they may not have been very careful on any other part of the gun, either. You can get a good pistol with MIM in it but you have to stick to good companies that stand behind their products.

You might be able to save a little buy getting a decent MIM gun with a great slide to frame fit, barrel lockup etc and slowly add tool steel parts as you get the money and motivation. The only downside is that a gun like that won't hold a lot of the value that you put into it. Another thing is that you want to find a decent smith that will be around for awhile and will fix any issues that crop up with his work for free. Another option is to find a used Wilson or Baer or something with the features you want. That's going to hold its value very well and will have manufacturer support.

[mkmckinley]

That said, I haven't been able to handle a STI Spartan yet, and yes the Rock Island Armory's appear to be impressive...after dry firing several Colts and a Springfield, and two RIA's the least expensive $399 RIA had the cleanest trigger of the bunch...go figure.

And I am a trigger snob.

I can relate to that. I have had a trigger job done on just about every gun I plan on hanging onto. I had the chance to talk to a great 1911 gunsmith at Shooter's Supply on Bragg Blvd. in Fayettville, NC and get a little free education on 1911's. The thing with a good 1911 trigger job is that it has an expiration date. With good tool steel parts it's going to last a really long time but not forever. Crappy parts can start to change noticeably within four-digit round counts. I'm assuming Colt still uses tool steel for the hammer and sear which a decent gunsmith should be able to turn into something amazing for less than $50.

If a manufacturer uses soft steel or even MIM it won't hold that trigger feel for very long and your gunsmith will have to put in brand new parts if he does a trigger job. You can't polish a turd. Another thing to consider is that if a manufacturer uses MIM on something critical like a hammer or sear they may not have been very careful on any other part of the gun, either. You can get a good pistol with MIM in it but you have to stick to good companies that stand behind their products.

You might be able to save a little buy getting a decent MIM gun with a great slide to frame fit, barrel lockup etc and slowly add tool steel parts as you get the money and motivation. The only downside is that a gun like that won't hold a lot of the value that you put into it. Another thing is that you want to find a decent smith that will be around for awhile and will fix any issues that crop up with his work for free. Another option is to find a used Wilson or Baer or something with the features you want. That's going to hold its value very well and will have manufacturer support.

[Redhat]

I have a S&W I bought used ($450) that has been absolutely reliable. I use it for a range gun.

I also have a '70 series that I got used years ago. It had problems thanks to the previous owner "polishing" it. Lulily I had access to a top notch 1911 g-smith who was able to salvage it. I don't shoot it much anymore, but after he worked it, it was %100.

As you have stated, you are looking for an affordable range gun so I would look at a basic model from SA GI/Milspec or Colt 1991.

I would highly advise getting one with a beavertail grip safety if you can so you can shoot without the annoyance of it biting your hand.

[mkmckinley]

That said, I haven't been able to handle a STI Spartan yet, and yes the Rock Island Armory's appear to be impressive...after dry firing several Colts and a Springfield, and two RIA's the least expensive $399 RIA had the cleanest trigger of the bunch...go figure.

And I am a trigger snob.

I can relate to that. I have had a trigger job done on just about every gun I plan on hanging onto. I had the chance to talk to a great 1911 gunsmith at Shooter's Supply on Bragg Blvd. in Fayettville, NC and get a little free education on 1911's. The thing with a good 1911 trigger job is that it has an expiration date. With good tool steel parts it's going to last a really long time but not forever. Crappy parts can start to change noticeably within four-digit round counts. I'm assuming Colt still uses tool steel for the hammer and sear which a decent gunsmith should be able to turn into something amazing for less than $50.

If a manufacturer uses soft steel or even MIM it won't hold that trigger feel for very long and your gunsmith will have to put in brand new parts if he does a trigger job. You can't polish a turd. Another thing to consider is that if a manufacturer uses MIM on something critical like a hammer or sear they may not have been very careful on any other part of the gun, either. You can get a good pistol with MIM in it but you have to stick to good companies that stand behind their products.

You might be able to save a little buy getting a decent MIM gun with a great slide to frame fit, barrel lockup etc and slowly add tool steel parts as you get the money and motivation. The only downside is that a gun like that won't hold a lot of the value that you put into it. Another thing is that you want to find a decent smith that will be around for awhile and will fix any issues that crop up with his work for free. Another option is to find a used Wilson or Baer or something with the features you want. That's going to hold its value very well and will have manufacturer support.

[BBossman]

"If you treat your guns like you treat your lawnmower, buy a glock"-Ken Hackathorn

I thought that was a Vickers quote...

[Jason F]

All joking aside, I bought a STI spartan for my first and only 1911. It had so many issues that I couldn't diagnose that I said thats it for me and went with glocks. If you don't know a 1911 in and out and can't completely maintain a 1911 then you are probably in store for a disapointing purchase. Especially if it is your only handgun.

Maybe.... And this is partially true.

But I now own my 3rd, 4th, and 5th 1911's (I'm prepping #5 to give to my brother for Christmas), and none of them have required major alterations, maintenance, or tweaking other than regular springs, etc. (I owned 2 others previously, and those two also ran like tops and really didn't require much in the way of extra care or treatment beyond my Ruger or Glock).

And I'm dealing with Kimbers- 3", 4", and 2 5" models. So I'm not dealing with $2k+ customs, nor $400 bargains.... just $700-1000 "middle class" guns.

[Jitterbug]

With good tool steel parts it's going to last a really long time but not forever. Crappy parts can start to change noticeably within four-digit round counts. I'm assuming Colt still uses tool steel for the hammer and sear which a decent gunsmith should be able to turn into something amazing for less than $50.

I never really considered that regarding the previous comment I made about the stellar trigger on the RIA, so a good point to consider for sticking with the higher quality class of gun...so thanks for that.

[glockkid88]

I thought that was a Vickers quote...

well I heard Hackathorn say it on an episode of tactical arms and have been dying to tell someone that. The real deal is that I was not involved enough in my earlier years of shooting to delve into the world of the 1911 and learn to maintain and work on my own pistol. A good friend to me who I really respect once told me that unless I was willing to put in the time to learn the ins and outs of the design, it probably wasnt the right handgun for me. I took his advice and kind of abandoned the design. I do respect the guns though as I have shot a few that ran like new tops and were a lot more accurate than I could shoot them. Maybe someday I will get into the 1911 again.

[cdunn]

S&W has a couple 1911"s for under 1k,I have a 1911pd with about 3000+/- rounds through it and its been perfect.