View Full Version : DD 12.0 FSPM
Anybody with any experience with the DD 12.0 FSPM rail? I like the idea of the extra rail space but still want of keep my FSP. Any other options like this other than DD?
The DD 12.0 FSP is awesome. I love mine; very light, very strong well balanced, eliminates the majority of barrel shadowing (Depending on where you mouint your light) and is easy to install/uninstall.
I know there are similar offerings from other manufacturers, but you'll have to get that info from someone else as I have not tried any of them. I believe the troy battle rail (OR something close to the name) is somewhat similar, I could be wrong however.
DD's rails are first rate; as is all of there products/services.
Are you talking about the rail for the carbine gas system? I'm actually looking for the 12.0 fspm ... for a 16" mid length barrel.
FloridaCreekIndian
10-27-10, 23:40
Are you talking about the rail for the carbine gas system? I'm actually looking for the 12.0 fspm ... for a 16" mid length barrel.
Daniel Defense has this rail in stock. I have never seen this one until you asked about it. You may have a hard time finding anyone that is sporting this rail system because the concept of keeping your FSB in place seems like a fairly new concept and most people seem to like flip up BUIS.
It is nice that DD would make a rail like this as the mid length gas system rifles are getting pretty popular. I say if this is what you need go for it. Not sure of what other options there are for your needs but DD makes nothing but the best in AR accessories.
Daniel Defense makes one for the midlength gas system.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=76
I have the DD Omega X 12.0 FSP and like the fact I can put a X300 forward of the FSB. I also like being able to put a sling that far foward. But, I have placed my thumb on the super hot gas block a few times....and it hurt!
Daniel Defense makes one for the midlength gas system.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=76
I have the DD Omega X 12.0 FSP and like the fact I can put a X300 forward of the FSB. I also like being able to put a sling that far foward. But, I have placed my thumb on the super hot gas block a few times....and it hurt!
Same thing happened to me when I first got my DD Lite Rail 12.0 FSP. The gas block burnt the crap out of my hand. Totally my fault of course. I just put 2 XTM rail covers on the left and right side of the FSB to serve as a reference point for where not to raise my thumb past . The panels also provide some much needed spacing between the meaty portion of my hand and the FSB. My hands are huge. It's a curse.:shout:
FloridaCreekIndian
10-28-10, 08:00
The Vltor CASV M would probably work but for a mid length gas system where you want to keep your FSB, I am drawing a blank for any other products other than the DD FSPM.
It's true that you have to watch out for the hot gas block, especially with carbine length gas. Main reason I went with a 12.0 FSP was the ability to grip farther forward and run a light up front.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1251/5118118179_9648c7079e_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5118725130_2a4561f111_b.jpg
The FSPM is real similar, except the cutout for the front sight is moved forward. There aren't any rail slots in front of the FSPM's cutout, so if you want to run a pistol light at 12 o'clock you're out of luck. An offset mount on the left or right side will still work just fine though.
I have the DD M4 with the FSP 12 rail. I hate the carbine gas system as it puts the FSB right where I want to put my support hand. I got it to get my light out front at the 12 o'clock position but unfortunately, I, like other people have mentioned, I've touched the FSP with my thumb and it got burned.
I've been thinking about replacing the FSP with a folding sight to get it out of the way. I'm just not sure that would be a fix...
I have the DD M4 with the FSP 12 rail. I hate the carbine gas system as it puts the FSB right where I want to put my support hand. I got it to get my light out front at the 12 o'clock position but unfortunately, I, like other people have mentioned, I've touched the FSP with my thumb and it got burned.
I've been thinking about replacing the FSP with a folding sight to get it out of the way. I'm just not sure that would be a fix...
A gas block with a folding front sight I think could help, But I'm not sure it would mitigate the problem entirely. I know with my hands I would still probably run the risk of getting burnt with the wrong support hand placement. I'm used to the set up now though. I use an AFG and that helps as well. Either way I do like having that FSB there.
A gas block with a folding front sight I think could help, But I'm not sure it would mitigate the problem entirely. I know with my hands I would still probably run the risk of getting burnt with the wrong support hand placement. I'm used to the set up now though. I use an AFG and that helps as well. Either way I do like having that FSB there.
yeah, me too. on a rifle without magnified optics, I prefer the FSP. in fact, I prefer them for all applications but getting my thumb singed is no fun and causes me to focus attention to where I don't think it should be when firing the rifle.
I'm just looking for a solution to this problem and what I have come to realize is that a midlength solves this and that the 12FSP rails are simply a work around. I have all but abandoned the carbine length from all future consideration except SBRs...
I think that one could train their way OUT of touching the gas block when using an AFG in the right way. I know from being on tanks for years, one quickly learns where you cannot put your limbs - or you just lose them...
The issue is time I suppose.
gloves, gentlemen. sheesh
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/14/l_c26fb87114d749c1aaf6b541d835d7be.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/fourteen%20five%20mid/102_0481.jpg?t=1288365148
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/SBR/100_0038.jpg?t=1288365312
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/85/l_92c586534263441ba3037f95f9ed97fa.jpg
i really like the FSP/FSPM... but it is a heavy setup.
The DD FSP Rail is the best one on the market in its style.
Ive never used one but a good friend of mine has the 12" and swears by it.
Id personally rather have flip up BUIS and get rid of the FSP.
The only other rail that would work great for extended length and still keep ur FSP would be a CASV-EL.
As for gripping too far forward and burning ur thumbs, some gloves will def cure that problem.
Or a proper grip on a AFG could very easily fix ur hand position.
I've really only burnt my thumb when activating the light mounted at 12 o'clock, and to be honest, it's not THAT bad. but reaching for illumination and getting a jolt is not something I want to have happen in a serious situation.
It's mostly a distraction and yes, I could probably train around it but making an accommodation like this seems pointless when there are easy fixes.
what I've done is I have moved the light forward one notch, the VFG two notches, and I run my Emod one click in from previously. this works pretty good in informal shooting but I haven't tried it out in a training situation to see if the concept holds up.
and yeah, I do wear gloves when I have the time to put them on but depending on the need, I don't think I'll always get that time...
Ooooooo ok gotcha.
Yea i understand what u mean with the gloves, there are def situations and times where u wont be able to put on or have on gloves.
I'm hoping this setup works for me:
http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/4eb353fede47f23b0e7d9d8163278125dc1c0de.jpg
With an offset mount, it keeps my thumb out. Also, the AFG is far enough fwd that I don't hit the FSP even if I move my support hand up and over the top of the rail fwd of the fsp. To me it is an advantage to even a middie with an FSP, because I can go fwd even more. I suppose that a middie with a low gas block and 12 inch DD rail is the best...
But.. I could not have bought a gas block and 12 inch rail and fwd buis for close to the FSP carbine rail.
SWS makes one in carbine length. If I had to own another carbine with FSB it would be a must have to use a the SWS or DD 9.5 setup with the rails extended along side the FSB. For me its just a place to mount a light. I spent forever trying to figure out where to stick the light on my last carbine length rifle and it was going to have to be a MI FSB mount which I was not thrilled about. This style rail solves that otherwise for to use a light on an FSB rifle my hand and stubbie are always too far back.
unless you plan on participating in full on combat operations in your living room, you won't get the FSB hot enough to need gloves, when the real shooting starts. and if you did start going through mag after mag, a little burn to your thumb will likely go completely unnoticed.
personally, i train pretty hard when i train. lots and lots of rounds expelled in fairly short periods of time. i've always repped FSBs on my fightin guns, and i've never burned my thumb on the FSB while shooting. or if i did, i didn't notice/care.
not trying to be a cock, but you guys are seriously sounding a little girly in this thread.
unless you plan on participating in full on combat operations in your living room, you won't get the FSB hot enough to need gloves, when the real shooting starts. and if you did start going through mag after mag, a little burn to your thumb will likely go completely unnoticed.
personally, i train pretty hard when i train. lots and lots of rounds expelled in fairly short periods of time. i've always repped FSBs on my fightin guns, and i've never burned my thumb on the FSB while shooting. or if i did, i didn't notice/care.
not trying to be a cock, but you guys are seriously sounding a little girly in this thread.
true. true... but we are talking about the FSP rail and one of the things that a pistol light mounted at 12 o'clock requires is putting your thumb right up against the FSP. I'm only bringing it up as part of the discussion of the rail.
not saying I'm gonna get all weepy if I brush up against the thing but it does get your attention or somehow alter something to avoid it. just sayin'... :cool:
SWS makes one in carbine length. If I had to own another carbine with FSB it would be a must have to use a the SWS or DD 9.5 setup with the rails extended along side the FSB.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I do not see that the SWS or the 9.5 provide better options. Everything you can do with these, you can do with the 12.0. AND... with the 12.0, you have more room to work with IF you want. I also doubt the extra 2.5" weight is much different - especially with a DD.
If your light is on the side, all this should not be an issue.
Putting the 2 XTM rail panels right next to the FSB on both sides works great for me. It provides more distance between my thumb and the FSB so I can press on the gun as aggressively as I want to and not worry about that meaty portion of my thumb pouring over the rail and making contact with the FSB. And with the AFG and X300 as far forward on the 6 and 12 as possible, I never get burnt while manipulating the light. No more boo boos.
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/cgcorrea/359010415_photobucket_24424_.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/cgcorrea/grip.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/cgcorrea/griplight.jpg
Rail length all comes down to personal preference and hand position.
I'm running a 9" Lite rail w/10.5 barrel and no FSB currently and love it. Though at times I do wish I had a little more rail length, thus why I'm considering a 12.5 setup with Larue 11".
So go with what rail u feel works the best for ur needs.
I used to run a FSB but have fallen in love with flip up BUIS. Main reason is I always run a Optic and ALWAYS carry spare batteries just in case.
So the only time I'd have to really be using my irons is if my mount or Optic broke.
Putting the 2 XTM rail panels right next to the FSB on both sides works great for me. It provides more distance between my thumb and the FSB so I can press on the gun as aggressively as I want to and not worry about that meaty portion of my thumb pouring over the rail and making contact with the FSB. And with the AFG and X300 as far forward on the 6 and 12 as possible, I never get burnt while manipulating the light. No more boo boos.
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy285/cgcorrea/359010415_photobucket_24424_.jpg
I see what you're saying.
that looks good and I moved my light and AFG like you have it and voila, it works! no more contact with FSB but I'm afraid that puts my hand out a little too far for my preferred hold. I moved them back two notches and it's a little better.
it's still definitely not like how my other guns are set up but I'm willing to experiment. I've got a class coming up in November that I'll be using this guy along with a BCM middie with 9" rail. either way, I'll have a proof of concept for which works better for me.
thanks for the pics...
I see what you're saying.
that looks good and I moved my light and AFG like you have it and voila, it works! no more contact with FSB but I'm afraid that puts my hand out a little too far for my preferred hold. I moved them back two notches and it's a little better.
it's still definitely not like how my other guns are set up but I'm willing to experiment. I've got a class coming up in November that I'll be using this guy along with a BCM middie with 9" rail. either way, I'll have a proof of concept for which works better for me.
thanks for the pics...
I'm glad I could help. It did take a little getting used to for me. But in the end I found that I had better control in both shooting and driving the gun with that support hand placement, and even though I initially tried this out because I didn't wanna worry about getting burnt by the FSB, not getting burnt became more of a secondary benefit. My hands are freakishly large and ugly as it is without having the partial outline of an FSB on them:laugh:.
Anybody with any experience with the DD 12.0 FSPM rail? I like the idea of the extra rail space but still want of keep my FSP. Any other options like this other than DD?
My DD M4 FSPM without a fixed front sight. :) I'm still waiting for my ARMS 41-B folding front sight.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/akula_88/long/aq/IMG_3139.jpg
Maybe I'm missing something, but I do not see that the SWS or the 9.5 provide better options. Everything you can do with these, you can do with the 12.0. AND... with the 12.0, you have more room to work with IF you want. I also doubt the extra 2.5" weight is much different - especially with a DD.
If your light is on the side, all thins should not be an issue.
The extra 2.5" wt? Its a slippery slope. The extended rail along the sides is just a "little" bit extra weight and then the 2.5" is just a little more extra wt, etc. If I'm going carbine length it is to have the lightest weight I can have, so I will only add what I feel I "must". The only reason I would even entertain the idea of a rail that extends along the sides of the FSB is that I prefer my stubbie at 9" and need just a "little" more rail for a light. The 12" defeats "my" purposes on a carbine with carbine length gas sstm. To each his own. I really want a middie with an 11" rail, so go figure:p
M4Fundi - nice handle.
IN any case, I agree about weight creep. IF I get another, I'll think about a thin barrel, block and sights on the rail - we'll see. Enough stuff on this site to think about.
I just like the hand forward and I think mine works for now.
I completely agree about the hand forward and that is why I am sick of trying to make the Carbine work for me for now and why I really want a Middie with an 11" rail and 16" bbl. I still want another carbine and am always trying to build that one in my head, but I'm ready to move to a further hands forward hold and don't want the head ache of jury rigging a carbine right now. Sooo I'm going to figure out a middie that will be my GP, 3G to do more experimentation with muzzle devices and rails and then work my way back to a carbine again. The fantastic thing about these ARs is with so many options it is hard to stagnate in your learning and training methodology. Trying new kit just keeps you excited about learning and trying new things:D My FAL has become so boring:p
Good luck!
HoustonNFR
11-02-10, 21:53
i got this rail system on my m4 an cant stop looking at it
:dance3:
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