View Full Version : Switched back from M&P to Glock?
Has anyone switch from the M&P back to Glocks? Just curious to see if some people have found the grass isnt always greener. My buddy has a full size M&P 9mm for sale for a decent price and I'm thinking about giving it a shot but im heavily investing in the Glock platform.
willowofwisp
10-28-10, 17:07
I ran teh m&p platform all summer and at the end switched back to Glock..the m&p was nice and worked pretty well and i put around 5k down range between my full size and compact.
My only grief with the m&p was teh sizing, i really liked to carry a g19 sized gun and that couldn't happen in 9mm. Otherwise trigger and grip were good and it shot pretty well
My only grief with the m&p was teh sizing, i really liked to carry a g19 sized gun and that couldn't happen in 9mm.
Why not?
Why not?
Smith & Wesson doesn't make an M&P9 in a G19 size. Yet.
Oh, is it just either full size or sub-compact?
Oh, is it just either full size or sub-compact?
Well, full-size or what S&W calls a compact, yes. The M&P9c is between the G19 and G26 in size.
Has anyone switch from the M&P back to Glocks? Just curious to see if some people have found the grass isnt always greener. My buddy has a full size M&P 9mm for sale for a decent price and I'm thinking about giving it a shot but im heavily investing in the Glock platform.
Nope. I switched from Glock's to M&P's and never went back.
C4
Robb Jensen
10-28-10, 17:39
I shoot both. Mostly for competition I use a 5" M&P Pro 9mm or 5" M&P Pro .40, I do sometimes use a Glock 17. My concealed carry gun is a Gen 2 Glock 19.
I shot the M&P9 exclusively for a year but decided to switch back to Glock because I'm heavily invested in the Glock platform; holsters, spare parts, accessories, mags and various (eight) models like the G17, G19, G26 & G23.
I really did like the M&P but it didn't make me a better shooter. In some ways it was easier to shoot but that didn't magically punch holes in the X for me.
And while I didn't have any issues with my M&P I was discouraged that no two M&P triggers felt the same. If I picked up a compact in the store the trigger was different than mine and different that the one beside it in the display case. And at the time (this has changed) the only real option was to send your M&P to Burwell or Bowie for a trigger job ($75 + overnight charges). With my Glocks I could for under $18 swap out different connectors and springs, try different combos and find one that I liked and then make that consistant across all my glocks.
I also really like the sizing of the Glocks; the G19 is a good size and allows me to do it all from concealed carry to shooting class to one of the local matches. For me it's the perfect size. I also like the size of the G26 for those days when I need a little extra concealability. The full sized M&P and M&P9c are in-betweens for and my body size so I have a hard time finding that sort of "do all" handgun like the G19. If I had more body mass I don't think it would be an issue but I don't so it is.
That said I still like the M&P and can see a time when I will make the switch. Just not now. I'm not worried about some of the issues that have been discussed I'm just satisfied with the Glock models and how I shoot them.
If I was starting over right now from square one I would probably choose the M&P but seeing how invested I am with Glocks it didn't at the time (and still doesn't just yet) make sense for me to switch.
I went back to Glock after trying the MP line for a few months. I bought an MP9 to use as a game gun and had it promptly stolen by my wife who to this day loves the MP and doesnt much care for Glock. I shot the 9 well, better than my 19 or 34. So I stepped up to the 45. I couldn't shoot it for squat. Even after a few months of dry fire and range time I still couldn't shoot it as well as my G21. Felt better in my hand, pointed well but at the end of the day I just couldnt do as well with the MP as the Glock. To this day I have no clue why, but I just chalked it up to shit happens.
They are definitely worth trying. Since it's your buddy's gun it shouldnt be hard to get some range time with it to see if it's for you or not.
My department issues Glocks but allows us to carry anything within reason, and I switched to the M&P40. I have to qualify on both regularly and I always shoot better on the Smith. Granted I never shoot the Glock other than on qual days. If I'm working you'll only see a Smith in my holster.
I switched back to Glock and sold my M&P9.
For me, it was just a personal preference issue. I found the grip on the M&P9 very un-ergonomic and uncomfortable while shooting. It didn't fit my hand as well as the Glock, so I ended up feeling like I had to squeeze tighter to maintain control. After extended shooting, this made parts of my hand feel like they were cramping up more.
If it wasn't for that, i would have stuck to the M&P9. The Glock just gives me a better fit.
It's almost boringly simple and reliable. I'm always looking at new handguns to see if they are somehow better, but always stick to the Glock. Also fired so many rounds out of it that aiming feels very natural with it.
I'll probably be moving back to Glock. While I like my M&P 9 it really doesn't do anything better than my Glock 19. I still prefer the Glock trigger and the G19 conceals better for me. I'm pretty much in the same boat as M4arc.
I am seriously thinking of trading or selling my M&P 9 and getting a 3rd Gen RTF2 Glock 19...
operator81
10-28-10, 18:33
I tried an M&P9 for a year or so before going back to Glocks. The M&P just didn't fit my hand as well as the Glock and I hated the trigger reset (this was before Apex was making components).
I am seriously thinking of trading or selling my M&P 9 and getting a 3rd Gen RTF2 Glock 19...
Oh dude, I believe the RTF2 is the cat's ass of Glocks. I'm far more impressed with the RTF2s than I am the Gen4s. Get one, you won't be disappointed.
Oh dude, I believe the RTF2 is the cat's ass of Glocks. I'm far more impressed with the RTF2s than I am the Gen4s. Get one, you won't be disappointed.
I agree. Too bad it seems as though GLOCK doesn't feel the same way. LE/Mil only. And who knows how long they'll even keep em around.
I agree. Too bad it seems as though GLOCK doesn't feel the same way. LE/Mil only. And who knows how long they'll even keep em around.
What? The RTF2s are not LE/Mil Only. They're available to the public like any other Glock.
willowofwisp
10-28-10, 19:03
What? The RTF2s are not LE/Mil Only. They're available to the public like any other Glock.
there was a press release that glock stated RTF2 would only be available for LE/MIL (i believe this is for future ordes)
there was a press release that glock stated RTF2 would only be available for LE/MIL (i believe this is for future ordes)
Never mind, it does state that on the Team Glock website. That's bullshit!
Maybe now is the time to jump to the M&P??? :angry:
I've gone back to my old G22 for some carry. I definitely shoot it better. Although after 1400 rounds, I'm getting competent with the m&p.
I tried a M&P9 and 9c for about a year and I also switched back to Glock. I like the Glock trigger better and it's availability of parts. Nothing really against the M&P, I just prefer Glocks. I mulling over a HK45 for my next handgun.
I carried an M&P 9mm for nearly 4 years and put over 16k rounds through two different guns. I recently switched back to the Glock third gen 9mm.
While I like the ergonomics of the M&P and like the idea of supporting an American company the accuracy leaves something to be desired (in the 9mm and .40 platform). Since there are no gunsmith fit barrel options at this point I've gone back to Glock 19s and RTF 17s.
I've been a avid Glock fan for the past 5 years (G17, G19, G23, G35).
This past year, I sold all of the .40s, and gave my dad my G17 and kept the G19 for CCW.
Concurrently, I've dedicated this past year to the M&P9. Which I've been very happy with how it has performed.
Fast forward to now, I just sold my G19 with the intent to get another M&P9...... but then I left the store with a Gen 4 G17.
My G17 has been working without problem (albeit I've only had about 500rds through it).
Being re-introduced to the Glock has made me realize a fundamental error I was having on my trigger finger placement (to little trigger finger, rounds drifting to the left) and the M&P trigger system was letting me get away with it. Since then, the problem has been solved.
There are things I like about the Glock and things I like about the M&P. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what I carry because I shoot both equally well.
And it's nice having two different platforms to be co-partners (not so much like a primary/back-up roles but both being reliable and able to take up the slack if one was to do down).
QuickStrike
10-29-10, 00:25
I recently traded my M&P45compact towards another glock 19.
So now I have two gen3 g19s. One to carry (after more testing) and one to shoot the bejesus out of.
I just like the overall durability and simplicity of the glock more and the trigger reset.
These two g19's and the g26 cover all my CCW needs. The g20fs would be useful if I ever hiked or camp out.
Glock has pretty much got me covered as far as semi-autos go. :cool:
IrishDevil
10-29-10, 00:57
I went back to Glock after trying the M&P for 7 months. I shoot Glocks better, plain and simple.
A few things I considered:
-The G19 is just too good of a carry gun to walk away from.
-The M&P has probably the best Crimson Trace grip ever made.
-The M&P trigger is crappy, IMO, even with aftermarket help.
-Glock mags are, IMO, more durable.
In the end I decided that Glock fits my needs better overall. I do suggest the M&P to people all the time, especially new shooters just starting out. I do feel that it's a good platform. The M&P just doesn't fit my needs in 2 areas: frame size and trigger
IrishDevil
10-29-10, 01:01
Double-tap
SWATcop556
10-29-10, 01:32
I started my LE career carrying a 1911. After about 2 years my dept. switched over to the G22 Gen3. I was always able to keep mine running consistently with a WML (X200A then X200B) but I was always on top of spring maintenance (mags and pistol).
I then went to the Sheriff's Dept. and was issued a G31C and carried it for 5 years. Same with the G22 I kept it running with the X300 but I again watched my springs and regularly changed them out.
I took a new LE job further north and was able to carry the 9mm Glocks so I switched to all Glock all 9mm (G17 for uniformed/SWAT, G19 for plainclothes/CCW, and G26 for deeper CCW when needed). I also picked up two M&P40FS to try out and see what all of the fuss was about. After two years and almost 10k through both guns there was a policy change re. duty weapons and the M&P was authorized. I switched over tot he M&P40FS for duty and the M&P9C for off duty CCW. I also have a M&P9FS for training when I go on my own dime for cheaper ammo than the 40 cal.
Over all I'm very happy and I thinned out my Glocks to two Gen3 G19's. I've found I can conceal the FS M&P's as easily as the G19's as there is not much difference in size.
Add a little stippling and some Apex parts and I'm a very happy M&P user.
Magic_Salad0892
10-29-10, 01:40
I've not ever been a fan of the M&P design, not that it wasn't reliable, it's just that I think Glock pistols, are made better, they fit me better, I prefer the finish, they weigh less (in 9x19) IIRC, and there are more parts available.
If I were to leave Glocks, it'd be to an H&K pistol.
However, those .45 M&Ps are juicy.
I've owned both but I prefer the simpler design of the Glock. Aftermarket parts are all over the place and relatively inexpensive to boot. I shoot a 34 in USPSA and Multigun and save for a few ammo issues, I have not had any issues with my competition guns.
Sheldon Carruth
USPSA L3198
I've seen it both ways. Some people prefer the Glocks and some prefer the M&P. Both platforms are great so I would get some range time behind both and see which you shoot better and go with that one. Also when trying the M&P I believe you should try all the grip sizes and see if any seem to stand out for better or worse. Even though I haven't tried a Gen4 Glock(yet, but I will), I would think the same statement would be true as far as grip size.
Still heavily vested in M&P's but a number of things have me thinking about Glocks again. None of which have anything to do with shooting. I can shoot either at the same level. I may end up with a mix, shooting one for games and carrying the other.
I like both and have gone back and forth a couple of times before settling on the Glock (for now anyways). If I ever decide I just have to have a .45, it'll be an M&P.
Wouldn't it be sweet if Crimson Trace could come up with Gen 4 grip replacement ala M&P? IMO, the Crimson Trace option for the Glock sucks.
Has anyone switch from the M&P back to Glocks? Just curious to see if some people have found the grass isnt always greener. My buddy has a full size M&P 9mm for sale for a decent price and I'm thinking about giving it a shot but im heavily investing in the Glock platform.
Nope. Glocks are great, and I've still got 2 even after the sell-off, but I'm a convert. Just took a 1,200 round class and I like my M&P even more than I did before.
I personally like the GEN 3 G19 and believe it to be one of the finest combat guns ever made. My main problem though is that I am in love with the CT laser grips for the M&P.
For those of you that have attended night fighting courses and especially Home Defense/CQB schools, you know how much of an improvement lasers make (accuracy, speed, etc).
C4
Wouldn't it be sweet if Crimson Trace could come up with Gen 4 grip replacement ala M&P? IMO, the Crimson Trace option for the Glock sucks.
Agree. I tried to love it, but just couldn't.
C4
Littlelebowski
10-29-10, 11:11
I tried switching but ended up selling my M&P to a forum member here after 2 months of dedicated training with the M&P and I still shot better with my trusty Gen3 G19.
If the Apex stuff had been around then or if the M&P had a better reset, I might be carrying one now. Certainly would be if I'd taken the Vickers class (which had night shooting training in it) that I just took last weekend, a year ago.
I'm sticking to GLOCKs myself. Never bought an M&P. I'd like to and probably will eventually. But my GLOCK collection isn't complete yet. I currently have a Gen4 19, Gen3 19, G22, G27, and G21.
Looking to buy an G17 RTF2 here soon which will be for general home defense and competition. That RTF2 frame will also allow me to buy a G34 later on and have it "RTF2'd" (so to speak) with a frame swap.
The next buy will probably be an G19 RTF2. The Gen4 guns don't feel nearly as good as the RTF2s. Only good thing about em is the mag release, the smaller grip SIZE (not the texture), and the duller slide finish.
Has anyone switch from the M&P back to Glocks? Just curious to see if some people have found the grass isnt always greener. My buddy has a full size M&P 9mm for sale for a decent price and I'm thinking about giving it a shot but im heavily investing in the Glock platform.
I went from Glock to Sig to M&P and back to Glock.. The Gen4 glocks just felt better in my hand than my M&P..
The bummer was I was heavily invested in M&P, it's taken me some time to get stocked back up on mags, holsters, accessories, etc..
Wouldn't it be sweet if Crimson Trace could come up with Gen 4 grip replacement ala M&P? IMO, the Crimson Trace option for the Glock sucks.
I posted in another thread that I believe it's impossible for CT to design a nice Gen4 grip because the Gen4 backstrap design blows. It's not a true "module" design like the M&P. The cheesy/flimsy backpanels held on by the trigger housing pin isn't giving the CT engineers much to work with.
This is an area with the M&P and CT grips shine.
That said I've been using the LG-417 grips on my EDC G19 for eight months now and I'm very happy with them. They are comfortable, even with small paws, thinner and less bulkier and they have an on/off switch unlike the LG-617/619 models. Of course I just leave mine on but this was a big bitch of the previous model.
I've pretty much moved back to Glock from the M&P. I've got one (M&P9) that I'm just about ready to put up for sale.
The M&P9 is a very sweet shooter. It comes with good stock sights and it offers fine ergonomics - especially for lefties like me. It comes with a craptastic stock trigger though and, despite its measurements on paper, it's a bulky carry gun. Finally, it's unnecessarily complex to detail strip. I like to tinker and occasionally fully clean my guns and I found it annoying to have to hammer out roll pins (and the rear sight!) to get to the guts of the gun.
The Glock fits me fine. It does flip more during recoil and I get slide-bite every session I shoot. I'm more accurate with it though and it's the ideal size for me for CCW.
It's a shame that the M&P hasn't worked out for me since S&W's customer service is top-notch. I'd rather buy a gun from them than just about anyone else.
Oh dude, I believe the RTF2 is the cat's ass of Glocks. I'm far more impressed with the RTF2s than I am the Gen4s. Get one, you won't be disappointed.
Yep, that's about how I felt after shooting one...:cool:
Sucks that I can't get one. Who knows I might get lucky though...
I have always had Glocks. I purchased an M&P 45 and then the 40c and then the 40 FS. I just could not get passed the trigger! I don't believe that a combat gun should have to have off brand parts (by that I mean not S&W) to make it work well. Like APEX. I sold all my M&Ps and now have even more Glocks. I still want an M&P Mid 45. I just wish they could do something with that trigger.
GermanSynergy
10-29-10, 19:11
I had my trepidations regarding the M&P series, I'll admit. I purchased one in April 2010, and now own 4 (just bought a M&P 45 FDE today), thanks to G&R Tactical. :D
S&W really hit a home run with these. I love em.
militarymoron
10-29-10, 19:27
i bought a full size M&P 9mm when they first came out in '06 intending to replace my gen 2 G19. i've been shooting it on and off for a while, and in the past few months have gravitated back to the G19. for some reason, i shoot the G19 better (replacing the stock sights with warrens helped).
i think my initial issues with the M&P (tight chamber - had to send it back to S&W and they replaced it, and rust on the slide) disappointed me a little. i bought the G19 in 1990 and it's just been a dang reliable, great all-round pistol.
M&P to Xd to M&P to Glock to M&P to USP :p
That's for range/comp/bedside
I carry an M&P compact
I hate the trigger but I haven't found a better carry gun for "me".
Yep, that's about how I felt after shooting one...:cool:
Sucks that I can't get one. Who knows I might get lucky though...
There are lots of RTF2 G19s on shelves still 'round here. My RTF2 G21 SF just purchased was made very recently. I'm not sure the Glock long term plans for it have kicked in yet.
And you'll still find RTF2s up for sale that were bought before they went LE/Mil only, or that were bought by LE/Mil guys who decided they didn't want them.
vicious_cb
10-30-10, 19:04
S&W should make a G19 sized M&P, I know the difference is a fraction of an inch but it would make alot of people happy.
I switched from Glock to M&P and I'm happy. But, I think I would be happy with a Glock 19 as well. I really wish they made an M&P that size.
After shooting Glocks since they became available over 20 years ago, I had never really considered much else in that genere (polymer frame) of pistol until Smith and Wesson released the M&P. Having had an M&P since they came out, and with subsequent examples coming into the fold, I have to say it is everything the Glock had been but so much more. Don’t get me wrong, I still think the Glock is a great sidearm – except in .45 ACP and 10mm – but the ship has sailed and Glock was left at the dock. IMO, Smith and Wesson built a better mouse trap.
The ergonomics of the M&P are light years ahead of the Glock, of any generation. I am stumped when someone says the Glock is more comfortable. The first M&P I handled was like a dream in the hand compared to the brick-like Glock. Don't even think of a 21 unless you can palm a basketball.
M&P slide is not as 'chunky' and the distance from top of slide to center of bore is noticeably less. A manual safety is available for us .45 shooters, not necessary but nice if you want it. The imbedded stainless steel chassis imparts rigidity to the frame and also allows hard point mounts for roll pins. Takedown is SIG-like and simple. Ambi controls. Factory supplied sights are far superior. The M&P also offers a fully supported chamber which the Glock does not.
Finally, the fact that the M&P was designed around the higher pressure .40 S&W round speaks volumes as to why this sidearm is successful in all caliber offerings, whereas Glock being designed around the 9mm, historically has had problems with the .45 and 10mm versions, some catastrophic.
To the OP, FYI, the mid-size .45 M&P is just about the same size as a Glock 19. Here are some comparison photos from the 10-8 forums here:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=70865&page=14
I will take that .45 any day. My .02.
S&W should make a G19 sized M&P, I know the difference is a fraction of an inch but it would make alot of people happy.
+1. If S&W were to release a G19-size M&P9, I'd buy two and use one as my EDC for sure.
As for the subject matter of the post, I've never been a Glock owner and doubt I ever will be. My first pistol was the M&P and I'm not going to change.
Check this from my post directly above:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...=70865&page=14
Check this from my post directly above:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...=70865&page=14
Yep... I'm aware that the M&P45c is just about the same size as a G19. Note I said M&P9, not M&P45c.
ztf HITMAN
10-31-10, 17:51
Nope. I switched from Glock's to M&P's and never went back.
C4
....This for me, too. I haven't even thought about going back to Glock since I made the switch. The only plans I have are to get more M&P pistols. Judging from the feedback in this thread, I guess it's a subjective question. For me, the recoil feel in .40 is very different from G22 to M&P 40 FS. Better accuracy and faster follow up shots on target.
Use both interchangeably.
Yep... I'm aware that the M&P45c is just about the same size as a G19. Note I said M&P9, not M&P45c.
Note I said mid-size M&P 45, as I am quite aware you said M&P9. If you are not familiar with the model of pistol, yot gotta read the text, not just look at photos. That is not the M&P45c pictured. It is the mid-size model with a 1/2" shorter barrel than the 'full' size. Kind of a 'Commander' model if you will. A couple of guys were asking for a Glock 19 sized M&P, and this is it.
I am saying in a similar size package to a Glock 19, 10 rds of .45 ACP in an M&P middy is a nice unit. If 9mm is a must, then I can't help you.
Had 3 M&P's, put at least 15k rounds through them (when they were working that is, as each one broke)... went back to the Glocks. In polymer, IMO a Glock is superior.
From what I experienced and purely my subjective opinion: They break more often and their trigger reset stinks. Less blocky than a Glock yes, but, ergos/trigger/reliability/beavertail-wise they don't do a single thing a CZ SP-01 doesn't do 10 times better while being far easier to shoot and way more inherently accurate, so in a sense, what's the point.
For IDPA SSP they have their merits, since they're really a single-action gun that somehow got a pass, but otherwise, I wouldn't carry one or feel good about it if I was issued one to protect my hide based off what I've experienced and what I've observed at matches (the M&P's easily malf 3 times as much as Glocks at our local matches in my area).
JMHO.
Wow, you must have had some bad luck. I don't recall anyone having three of anything that broke. FYI, S&W has corrected some early teething problems with the pistol. Trigger reset is not as rough as when initially released, and with Apex parts, it is GTG at half the price a decent set of sights for a Glock would cost.
Truly the only thing Glock has on its side is time. It has been around longer and garnered a good following, and rightly so. There is also a reason why the M&P series is making serious inroads in the LE arena, over and over again, with the majority of those inroads being at Glocks expense.
I am not that much of a brand loyalist that I won't accept the merits and possible superiority of another system, whether it be in automobiles, computers, or firearms. I don't think some here are of the same philosophy. Just bring up the shortcomings of anything HK and see what happens.
Throwing a third pistol in the mix that has no bearing to the conversation is a bit disingenuous at best, and the "ergos/trigger/reliability/beavertail-wise" comment is, well, I am not sure where that came from. "Beavertail-wise"? Really?
Three years ago I started with an M&P and then switched to a G17. Now, I own, use, and carry a M&P9fs and a G17 both (not at the same time). I've ran classes with both and have found that, while running the same drills, I am just plain faster and more accurate on the clock with the M&P. I do like the trigger better on my G17 (not a fair comparision though. Stock M&P trigger / 3.5lb connector and polished components on the Glock) but still find that these days I most often reach for the S&W.
Three years ago I started with an M&P and then switched to a G17. Now, I own, use, and carry a M&P9fs and a G17 both (not at the same time). I've ran classes with both and have found that, while running the same drills, I am just plain faster and more accurate on the clock with the M&P. I do like the trigger better on my G17 (not a fair comparision though. Stock M&P trigger / 3.5lb connector and polished components on the Glock) but still find that these days I most often reach for the S&W.
I, too, find the M&P faster (for me) than the Gen 3 Glocks. However, I'm faster still (usually) with the Gen IV Glock 17. The M&P feels better and is a touch easier to hit with (adjusting to the Glock grip angle). The Gen IV is more sensitive to ammo - low powered stuff won't cycle it - and HAS to be more prone to limp wristing, too. I purchased the Gen IV due to the better ergos (without the goofy add on afterthoughts it's sized about perfect for me) and I like the way the muzzle doesn't rise much so it's a keeper. But the M&P is as close to a "natural" to me that they shall remain with me, too. This is especially true with the known concerns with the Gen IV Glocks.
I gave up on my M&P45 based on ergonomics. The various grip inserts (including ones I modified) either had palm swells in the wrong places for my hand or forced me to work to keep my hand choked up high on the grip. Its an oddity with my hands and I've only met one other person with the same complaints about shooting the M&P.
Never made the switch to the M&P 9mm though I still have it. It just doesn't offer anything really substantive over my 9mm Glocks. Never had an issue with the ergos, grip shape (don't like the soap bar shaped M&P grip), and trigger (prefer stock Glock) with Glocks. I do like the M&P and its a pistol I'd recommend without hesitation. So for me if 9mm Glocks and the G21SF didn't exist sure, I'd go M&P.
Had 3 M&P's, put at least 15k rounds through them (when they were working that is, as each one broke)... went back to the Glocks. In polymer, IMO a Glock is superior.
From what I experienced and purely my subjective opinion: They break more often and their trigger reset stinks. Less blocky than a Glock yes, but, ergos/trigger/reliability/beavertail-wise they don't do a single thing a CZ SP-01 doesn't do 10 times better while being far easier to shoot and way more inherently accurate, so in a sense, what's the point.
For IDPA SSP they have their merits, since they're really a single-action gun that somehow got a pass, but otherwise, I wouldn't carry one or feel good about it if I was issued one to protect my hide based off what I've experienced and what I've observed at matches (the M&P's easily malf 3 times as much as Glocks at our local matches in my area).
JMHO.
Funny you should say that... I think that a BONE STOCK Glock is the most reliable gun on earth... but competition shooters tinker with them to make them faster. A M&P set up full-race, like mine, runs MUCH more reliably than full-race Glocks. I'd say modified Glocks puke 2-3 times more often than modified M&Ps. With the M&P you can run a factory striker, but with the Glock, you have to run a lighter striker spring, to attain competition trigger pull/stroke. Tweaked-for-Speed Glocks, are just less reliable.
Jeff
It just doesn't offer anything really substantive over my 9mm Glocks. Never had an issue with the ergos, grip shape (don't like the soap bar shaped M&P grip), and trigger (prefer stock Glock) with Glocks. I do like the M&P and its a pistol I'd recommend without hesitation. So for me if 9mm Glocks and the G21SF didn't exist sure, I'd go M&P.
1) less top of slide to bore axis ratio
2) Ambidextrous controls
3) Imbedded stainless chasis
4) Fully supported chamber
5) Superior factory supplied sights
6) Designed with true adjustable grip size
7) Designed around the .40 S&W cartridge
8) Colt .45 ACP grip angle
I would give at minimum 4 of the 8 a rating of "substantive". What say you?
Note I said mid-size M&P 45, as I am quite aware you said M&P9. If you are not familiar with the model of pistol, yot gotta read the text, not just look at photos. That is not the M&P45c pictured. It is the mid-size model with a 1/2" shorter barrel than the 'full' size. Kind of a 'Commander' model if you will. A couple of guys were asking for a Glock 19 sized M&P, and this is it.
I am saying in a similar size package to a Glock 19, 10 rds of .45 ACP in an M&P middy is a nice unit. If 9mm is a must, then I can't help you.
I'm familiar with the M&P45 mid-size. I have one shooting buddy who owns a 45c and a G19 and another buddy with a 45 mid. The 45c is the closest thing in the M&P line, size-wise, to the G19; they're almost identical in their dimensions. The 45 mid-size is closer in size to my M&P9 fullsize than it is the G19; only 1/4" of barrel length separates them.
Back to the thread in progress...
Here are the photos from the 10-8 forums that show the size comaprison between the M&P .45 middy and the Glock 19. Almost identical in size. I believe that is why this comparison is shown. The M&P .45c has a bit shorter frame than the Glock 19, probably about the amount the middy is taller.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1497
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1498
Here are the photos from the 10-8 forums that show the size comaprison between the M&P .45 middy and the Glock 19. Almost identical in size. I believe that is why this comparison is shown. The M&P .45c has a bit shorter frame than the Glock 19, probably about the amount the middy is taller.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1497
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1498
I don't know why you continue to argue this point. I have had both and the G19 and the M&P45C frames are almost exactly the same size.
1) less top of slide to bore axis ratio
2) Ambidextrous controls
3) Imbedded stainless chasis
4) Fully supported chamber
5) Superior factory supplied sights
6) Designed with true adjustable grip size
7) Designed around the .40 S&W cartridge
8) Colt .45 ACP grip angle
I would give at minimum 4 of the 8 a rating of "substantive". What say you?
Those particulars make a difference to you. Not to me. (And I'd disagree with #1 including the fact the more aggresive grip angle of the Glock seems to allow me to get back on target faster, but that's my very subjective opinion) This thread is about our subjective experiences with these two makes and I still prefer Glock. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate the M&P for what it is. If the M&P works better for you, that's cool. I dont' know what else I can say.
Here they are next to each other.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/Ian111/IMG_0894.jpg
Shot a MP9 for a few thousand rounds, and it ended up going back to G19/17. The trigger seemed to be neither here or there for me, preferred the Glock trigger. During that time APEX did not have their kit for the MP, I may get one again in the future with the APEX kit but don't really plan on it.
Few observations from my perspective.
1) The grip angle wasn't an issue with Glock & MP different grips didn't give much of an advantage for me.
2) Rust, rust, rust. It bothered the heck out of me that the MP require more care than my other pistols.
3) My MP mags were problematic. SW sent me new ones.
4) Simplicity of parts and maintenance - Glock is hard to beat here.
5) Sights - Although nicer than Glock, doesn't really matter to me since they get swapped out anyway.
6) Support - Excellent and will continue to get better even though Glock still has a win in this catergory.
Ended up selling the SW MP9 and bought a RTF17. I don't doubt that the MP is an excellent pistol and in light of my minor problems at the outset, I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage if I was issued a MP. However given the choice, Glock gets the nod for me as it seems that during my MP ownership, I was searching for a solution to a problem that didn't exist. YMMV.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/Ian111/IMG_0894.jpg
Not to derail but that's an awesome book by Mr. Fury.
I don't know why you continue to argue this point. I have had both and the G19 and the M&P45C frames are almost exactly the same size.
I wasn't arguing anything, simply showing the mid-size .45 M&P is only slightly taller in the frame than the Glock 19 and I would take the couple of extra rounds with that model over the compact.
variablebinary
11-04-10, 21:22
I went from Glock to M&P, back to Glock and back to M&P
I've grown to like the M&P more overall. It's take years for it to fully grow on me, but the M&P has replaced my Glock as a carry pistol.
I think the M&P feels nicer in the hand. The trigger isn't as good as Glock's, but overall, I prefer the M&P.
Just tonight I came close to adding an M&P45 tactical collection. Took a lot of will power to resist bringing it home.
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/198527000/198527828/pix223159855.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/198527000/198527828/pix339672705.jpg
The irony is when the M&P first dropped I think it was a total joke. There was no way in hell I was going to buy SIGMA 2.0. I was wrong. Turned out to be a really good product.
I gave up on my M&P45 based on ergonomics. The various grip inserts (including ones I modified) either had palm swells in the wrong places for my hand or forced me to work to keep my hand choked up high on the grip. Its an oddity with my hands and I've only met one other person with the same complaints about shooting the M&P.
I had a similar issue with my 45C. Swapped the inserts numerous times and the gun still felt like it was working its way out of my hand. A drop dead reliable gun and I have no complaints other than I found myself having to adjust my grip often and that was becoming too much like work. I certainly gave it my best though. A little over 1900 rounds, including a three day tac-handgun course, but I never came to terms with it. I switched back to my twelve-year-old G-30. Bulkier, yes, but I have no issues with its concealment and it stays where it should. I sold the 45C to my brother. He's using it for off-duty carry and loves it.
I gave up on my M&P45 based on ergonomics. The various grip inserts (including ones I modified) either had palm swells in the wrong places for my hand or forced me to work to keep my hand choked up high on the grip. Its an oddity with my hands and I've only met one other person with the same complaints about shooting the M&P.
I had the same issues with the M&P9 Pro. I tried pretty hard to like it, and was able to shoot small groups at a static range, but in a class or during drills I had the same issues as you did. The palm swells on the M&P feel strange that far to the rear for me and, like you, I really had to force my hand high into the beavertail of the grip. The gun just kept working itself out of my hands and I eventually went back to my Glock 17 and 19.
My Glock frames are somewhat modified. The trigger guards have a reduced thickness. The rear grip textures have been almost entirely removed (dremel and 600 grit sandpaper) in order to decrease the size of the grip and a Hogue grip added. Strangely enough, I don't mind the location of the palm swells on the Hogue grip and I continue to use them because bicycle inner tubes just don't feel the same.
I'm tempted to sell my M&P9 and get a G19. Love my Gen 4 G22, and I'm not sure that it's worth a couple hundred bucks to get my M&P9 trigger to approach 'almost as good as a Glock' despite the M&P9 being somewhat more comfortable in my hand.
I may see if I spot a RTF2 G19 at the show this weekend.
I've got a G21, 22, and 34 and l like them all. Although, I need to finger a few M&Ps to see how they feel.
The great things about these guns is the cost, so even if you don't like it, you're not out a ton of money.
I decided to get a 2011 open gun for 3 gun and spent about $4K and I've shot about 200 rounds and it's sat in the safe unfired for almost a year because I just like my G34 more.
I could have bought a lot of M&Ps or Glocks with that coin.
I picked up a 3rd Gen RTF2 Glock 19 about 6 months ago...by far my favorite, glad I snagged it up when I had the chance.
For fun
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll93/Seawolf_504/MP9a.jpg
For work
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll93/Seawolf_504/G23a-1.jpg
I like both guns equally and I went back and forth between the M&P and Glock for a while, but I always seem to end up carrying a Glock. I think it just has to do with it being simple to operate, simple to maintain, and simple to work on.
The M&P has these qualities too, but there's just something about the Glock that has me hooked.
vicious_cb
11-05-10, 16:55
Whats so different about the maintenance between the 2? Both are simple enough that you could be your own armorer.
I have both and prefer the G19. My M&Ps are range toys but the Glock is for real.
VB, is the threaded barrel in that M&P 45 manufactured by S&W as well?
I went from Glock to M&P, back to Glock and back to M&P
I've grown to like the M&P more overall. It's take years for it to fully grow on me, but the M&P has replaced my Glock as a carry pistol.
I think the M&P feels nicer in the hand. The trigger isn't as good as Glock's, but overall, I prefer the M&P.
Just tonight I came close to adding an M&P45 tactical collection. Took a lot of will power to resist bringing it home.
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/198527000/198527828/pix223159855.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/198527000/198527828/pix339672705.jpg
The irony is when the M&P first dropped I think it was a total joke. There was no way in hell I was going to buy SIGMA 2.0. I was wrong. Turned out to be a really good product.
I went from Glock to M&P, back to Glock and back to M&P
I've grown to like the M&P more overall. It's take years for it to fully grow on me, but the M&P has replaced my Glock as a carry pistol.
I think the M&P feels nicer in the hand. The trigger isn't as good as Glock's, but overall, I prefer the M&P.
Just tonight I came close to adding an M&P45 tactical collection. Took a lot of will power to resist bringing it home.
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/198527000/198527828/pix223159855.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/198527000/198527828/pix339672705.jpg
The irony is when the M&P first dropped I think it was a total joke. There was no way in hell I was going to buy SIGMA 2.0. I was wrong. Turned out to be a really good product.
I don't know how I missed this model coming out, but it perfect for a night fighter build. As I'm typing this, and am too lazy to go back, I assume it has suppressor sights? if not, add those, a surefire, and some CTC and this thing would be a beast of a home defense gun.
What was the price, if you don't mind me asking, VB?
zen_grasshopper
11-06-10, 23:15
I have been carrying the Glock 17 for years. I bought a M&P full-size 9 and I tried to like it, but just could not. I put a couple thousand rounds through it, dry fired a couple of thousand of times and broke a firing pin.
With the Glock, I like the 5.5 connector trigger, I just shoot the piss out of it, haven't had an issue yet. The M&P I hated the trigger. Yes it can be corrected with the Apex parts, but if I buy a new gun I don't want to have to spend approximately $100 to get decent trigger.
I do grind a bit on the Glock and relieve the trigger guard as my middle finger knuckle hits it. But other than that and some stippling they are ready to run.
My boss loves his M&P and I love my Glocks. I am happy there are choices for everyone.
Jon
variablebinary
11-07-10, 00:08
VB, is the threaded barrel in that M&P 45 manufactured by S&W as well?
Factory gun
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_780503_-1_757782_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
The M&P I hated the trigger. Yes it can be corrected with the Apex parts, but if I buy a new gun I don't want to have to spend approximately $100 to get decent trigger.
You would rather pay $100 or more for a decent set of sights on your Glock? FYI, Apex parts are cheaper than sights. Newer M&P's have better triggers from the factory.
zen_grasshopper
11-07-10, 19:41
You would rather pay $100 or more for a decent set of sights on your Glock? FYI, Apex parts are cheaper than sights. Newer M&P's have better triggers from the factory.
I would have to put different sights on the M&P's also. While the factory sights are an improvement compared to the Glock factory sights, all my guns have 10-8's with tritium front only and I hate white or any other colored outlines. I like my sights to be as close to just black as possible, but still have tritium in the front.
Still don't like the trigger on the newer M&P's, just got back from a shop playing with a few. The Apex triggers are better, but in the long run it costs me more to setup an M&P with a decent trigger and sights then it does to buy a Glock with decent sights.
It's just a personal choice. I know that there are a lot of M&P fans on this forum, and that is cool. I personally don't care for them.
Jon
I would have to put different sights on the M&P's also. While the factory sights are an improvement compared to the Glock factory sights, all my guns have 10-8's with tritium front only and I hate white or any other colored outlines. I like my sights to be as close to just black as possible, but still have tritium in the front.
Still don't like the trigger on the newer M&P's, just got back from a shop playing with a few. The Apex triggers are better, but in the long run it costs me more to setup an M&P with a decent trigger and sights then it does to buy a Glock with decent sights.
It's just a personal choice. I know that there are a lot of M&P fans on this forum, and that is cool. I personally don't care for them.
Jon
I am willing to bet that your local gun shop didn't the latest version of the M&P.
C4
You would rather pay $100 or more for a decent set of sights on your Glock? .
yeah they (M&P sights) are better unless your still stuck with the sloping Novak knockoff which completely sucked just as the original Novak "non-snag" sights always sucked even if most SMEs on the planet promoted them for a couple decades wasn't it? For reasons now obvious to most.
But better doesn't often completely satisfy the particular type. Original M&P sights were equally No Go but for different reasons than Glock's no go. New M&P sights available this year are "better". And with the more limited options and the effort to push out that front . . . ;)
The BIG deal will be this new factory trigger with related tweaks Grant has been referring to. I look forward to feeling one up.
zen_grasshopper
11-07-10, 20:03
I am willing to bet that your local gun shop didn't the latest version of the M&P.
C4
How can I tell the latest version, Grant? My Lt. just got in an LE M&P 9 fullsize. It came from an online dealer and he had to wait a couple of weeks until their backorder was fulfilled, so I would imagine it was pretty fresh from the factory, but I could be wrong.
Jon
How can I tell the latest version, Grant? My Lt. just got in an LE M&P 9 fullsize. It came from an online dealer and he had to wait a couple of weeks until their backorder was fulfilled, so I would imagine it was pretty fresh from the factory, but I could be wrong.
Jon
As an LE dealer, I am willing to bet it was not the latest version.
The way to tell is to remove the sear housing block and examine the sear, sear plunger and plunger spring.
C4
Of these top two striker fired pistols I prefer the S&W M&P, mainly for its ergonomics. S&W and Apex Tactical have steadily been refining them and burying most of the issues the pistols have had when they were first introduced. If I couldn't have my M&P 9's setup the way I like them (with Apex parts), I would probably go back to the Glock Gen3 model 19 or the H&K P-30.
RogerinTPA
11-07-10, 21:04
I would have to put different sights on the M&P's also. While the factory sights are an improvement compared to the Glock factory sights, all my guns have 10-8's with tritium front only and I hate white or any other colored outlines. I like my sights to be as close to just black as possible, but still have tritium in the front.
Still don't like the trigger on the newer M&P's, just got back from a shop playing with a few. The Apex triggers are better, but in the long run it costs me more to setup an M&P with a decent trigger and sights then it does to buy a Glock with decent sights.
It's just a personal choice. I know that there are a lot of M&P fans on this forum, and that is cool. I personally don't care for them.
Jon
I just had a tritium vial fall out of a brand new10-8 front sight in under 400 rounds on my M&P9 last weekend. I was pretty f--kin disappointed. Now I get to stare at a hole until I can get it replaced.
variablebinary
11-07-10, 22:33
What was the price, if you don't mind me asking, VB?
A paltry $599 at Get Some Guns in SLC.
Roger if you contact Hilton I'm sure he will replace the front sight ASAP.
Traded in my M&P9 for a Gen 4 G17 today.
I looked at sending it off to Apex for parts installation, trigger work and a sight install, but I didn't get an answer back from the contact form, and I figure all that plus the cost of overnighting was too much hassle.
I suspect I'll set aside some cash here and there and get an M&P from Grant in a couple of months with all the Apex goodies and Warren Tactical sights installed.
A paltry $599 at Get Some Guns in SLC.
Daaaamn! And christmas is right around the corner too! I'm keeping my eyes peeled.
Grant, do you know the date that pistols received the new triggers? I bought one pretty recent and I keep hearing how sub-par the trigger is, but I love it. And I'm coming from SA guns mostly.
MountainRaven
11-08-10, 00:41
Went with H&K for a while, then went to Glock for a long time, went to the M&P, back to the H&K (neither of which lasted very long) and have gotten back to the Glock.
I love the ergos on the M&Ps. I love the ambi thumb safety. There just seems to be something... a little off about it. I can't seem to put my finger on it, but it's there. It's the same sort of something that I just don't like about XDs and XDms. Maybe it's the feel of the polymers they use. I don't know.
Maybe I'm just doomed to be a 1911 and Glock kinda guy.
Daaaamn! And christmas is right around the corner too! I'm keeping my eyes peeled.
Grant, do you know the date that pistols received the new triggers? I bought one pretty recent and I keep hearing how sub-par the trigger is, but I love it. And I'm coming from SA guns mostly.
I do not.
C4
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