View Full Version : Cleaning - would you clean after just 30 rnds, every 3 days or so?
I like to shoot at least every three or four days or so (in-home range), even if I just shoot one mag of 30 rnds.
This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway to be sure. Would it be ill-advised to clean an AR after every 30 rnd session, several times a week?
I do tend to clean my guns clean after every shooting session, and can't see that this would be a problem, but I want to make sure it wouldn't be harmful to clean an AR that frequently, after just 30 rounds or so.
I too have a range at home and shoot often. Aside from my duty rifle, I clean my rifles after every 1000 rounds or so. I clean my handguns more frequently but I make sure I have one completely clean for CCW.
Dirtyboy333
10-30-10, 05:40
Im wondering the same thing.....I also clean evrytime after shooting and am wondering if its necessary after say 50 rounds in my NON chrome-lined AR.....i kinda like cleaning but i would like to be able to clean bi-weekly instead of every shoot and feel comfortable about it even though 1 of my ar's is chromeless. haha
Magic_Salad0892
10-30-10, 06:22
Overcleaning a weapon can damage it.
Personally I wouldn't clean a weapon until after it has at least 2000 rounds through it, just keep it wet.
Firearms are more tolerant to being neglected than they are to be constantly cleaned.
However a little lube, and a toothbrush never hurt anybody.
I don't "clean" my guns (AR's/Handguns, shotguns and muzzleloaders are different I would clean those) anymore. I give them a good wipe down and that's about it, maybe a patch down the pipe and keep them WET with good lube. I don't "trust" a clean gun. If I completley cleaned a gun I would shoot a mag or two just confirm reliability, same goes for my carry piece.
DaBears_85
10-30-10, 07:07
You should do a search for Pat Rogers 'filthy 14'. The last I heard he was upwards of 30,000 rounds or so.
Overcleaning a weapon can damage it.
Personally I wouldn't clean a weapon until after it has at least 2000 rounds through it, just keep it wet.
Firearms are more tolerant to being neglected than they are to be constantly cleaned.
However a little lube, and a toothbrush never hurt anybody.
Just curious on my part. I can see running a brush through after only 30 rounds 3 times a week would eventually wear down the bore some, but a little bore cleaner on a pad and as you said some toothbrushing & lube should be ok.
I usually wait until I have at least 400 rounds and then clean. Otherwise it's only lubed.
You should do a search for Pat Rogers 'filthy 14'. The last I heard he was upwards of 30,000 rounds or so.
I do not have the issue in front of me....but if I remember correctly, he did not suggest this type of treatment for a duty weapon.
Overcleaning a weapon can damage it.
I look at it this way......IMPROPER cleaning can damage a weapon.
OVER cleaning........ simply wastes time.
Using PROPER cleaning methods, once the weapon is clean to the owners personal standard why would there be reason to continue cleaning? Sure, he/she could continue cleaning, it won't damage the weapon, but is it necessary?
Unless you're using ammo with corrosive powder or primers, there's no need to clean it so frequently. You won't hurt it as long as you are cleaning it correctly, but you'll be wasting a lot of time cleaning an AR-15 several times per week over a couple hundred rounds.
I don't "trust" a clean gun. If I completley cleaned a gun I would shoot a mag or two just confirm reliability, same goes for my carry piece.
I'm not knocking your personal standards towards weapons maintenance, but I think just the opposite....I do not trust a dirty weapon.
With a dirty weapon, who knows just what is lurking under that carbon and firing residue? What happened during that last range session that if left unnoticed, will fail me at the next trigger pull....when that trigger pull might mean the difference between life or death. A chipped FP? A cracked Cam Pin hole? A chipped and cracked Bolt Lug? A chipped Extractor Claw?
I personally feel safer with a clean, freshly inspected weapon. If cleaned, re-lubed, properly re-assembled and function checked, there should be no doubt in my mind that my weapon is still reliable and will function when needed next.
My rifle is my baby (since I have no kids) and I treat her as such.
I clean my rifle every 500-900 rounds.
Over-cleaning a rifle can have adverse effects but I personally don't like shooting what most would call a "dirty" rifle.
Now cleaning a rifle every 30 rounds is a little much in my eyes, doesn't mean u can't give it a nice wipe down and maybe touch it with a tooth brush.
As long as u keep ur rifle nice and wet (lubed) u won't have any issues until u get up there in round count.
Also my cleaning varies depending on how many rounds I fire @ a particular session. If I shoot a couple hundred (400-500) in one sitting I may also clean my rifle when I get home.
So I guess it really comes down to what ur comfortable doing, but no need to clean after one 30 round mag IMO.
I think that cleaning it several times a week is not a good idea. Solvents and scrubbing will certainly take a toll on anything. I clean my rifles every 200-300 rounds, and have let them go more than 2000 rounds before cleaning with no adverse affect.
Since you are using an indoor range cleaning would be even less necessary, in your case I would strip, clean and inspect every month.
Cameron
I only clean the chamber on my BCM after shooting steel case since it lets the carbon cake up in the chamber. Other than that, I just keep it wet. I probably have 700 rounds or so through the gun and still haven't given it a really thorough cleaning.
My carry pistol gets cleaned a little more, but I don't scrub it down after every range session...maybe every few hundred rounds.
GermanSynergy
10-30-10, 09:31
I clean my AR's every 1000 to 1500 rds, but keep them well lubed. Same thing for my Glocks and M&P 9's.
Cleaning every 30 rounds is a waste of time, unless the weapon has been dropped in a creek, mud, etc.
blksn955.o
10-30-10, 09:55
I took my AR apart (field stripped) to clean after the first 200-300rnds to look it over. I have only shot brass ammo (PMC, American Tactical, Fiochi (sp?), and some reloads) but there was really not anything nasty to speak of. I ended up just hitting it with more lube. I am by no means an experienced AR guy but read the cleaning thread to look for key points.
I am glad others go longer as I was planning on running 500-800 and cleaning then to see how much buildup accumulated.
RogerinTPA
10-30-10, 09:59
Overcleaning a weapon can damage it.
Personally I wouldn't clean a weapon until after it has at least 2000 rounds through it, just keep it wet.
Firearms are more tolerant to being neglected than they are to be constantly cleaned.
However a little lube, and a toothbrush never hurt anybody.
Agreed. I keep em wet and run them to 3K before a thorough cleaning.
.
For a CCW, SD, HD,etc., I always shoot a mag or two before depending on the gun. Once a gun has been disassembled/reassembled, there's always the chance that something isn't "right" until you verify the gun with a mag or two.
Personally, I would rather have a properly lubed gun with 50-100 rounds through it than one that was fresh from a cleaning. Of course, that is 50-100 rounds of quality non-corrosive ammo that I would be shooting in the gun for SD.
But maybe it's just me...
.
ucrt i fully agree that once a rifle is field stripped theres no guarantee that its gonna be a functioning rifle until a mag or two are run through it, ya never know what might not be correct.
The most ive ever went without cleaning was around 1200 rounds just to see if id notice any difference in performance.
I know people that clean there rifles every 2500 rounds or so and havent had any problems. I just personally wouldnt go that long because thats way too much carbon and build-up in my opinion.
R3V3LATIONS
10-30-10, 10:31
another advantage mentioned somewhere on this site...the link is evading me now only because im looking for it, but sometimes to run an slightly fouled AR will allow you to hold zero better. The reason was that the residual post firing "dirt" or carbon will fill in gap imperfections in the barrel and allow it to operate more accuratley. This depends however, on your barrel type, manufacturer etc.
food for thought
Cleaning? Whats this cleaning you are refering to?
Its often been said, the leading cause of wear in military weapons, is cleaning. w/o getting into the semantics of it all, what that means, is the constant disassembly, and the use of destructive cleaning practices, will wear a weapon far faster then shooting it.
I rarely clean my weapons, just finished my M&P.22, that came back from the smith.
My personal AR's, almost never get cleaned, and will go well over 2000 rounds, before I do a quick field strip clean and lube.
The only reason I clean my duty guns, after I shoot them, is because I'm on the clock, & some knucklehead, who thinks he knows, but really doesn't, will look at it, see some carbon, and declare it unworthy of tomato stake duty:rolleyes: So I clean it, to avoid the hassle.
I see and have seen, and in my dumber days, spent untold hours cleaning M16's, scraping the tail of the bolt. After some quality instruction, I realized that has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the weapon.
The idea that the M16fow needs to be meticulously clean is false, no matter how many times that fat guy on the military channel tells you it so.
Just shoot it.
Bob
Cleaning? Whats that? :blink:
I've got right at 3300 rounds through my DD, and just keep it wet.
Closest thing to a cleaning it has had was cleaning the krylon off and some brake cleaner got into the upper and lower.
Runs like a champ everytime I get it out.
I like to clean it every 200-300 rounds. I like my gun clean. I will shoot that many rounds possible more every range session so i clean basically every time I go shooting.
Heartbreaker
10-30-10, 13:02
I pull a boresnake through every 300-500 rounds, sometimes I'll try and knock some carbon loose with a chamber brush, even this seems excessive with a chrome lined barrel though, I figure if it only takes one boresnake for it to be completely clean it probably wasn't dirty enough to warrant it. If it gives you peace of mind you could always use a high quality lube developed by operator rocket surgeons to last 100k rounds in the Atacama desert, I've seen a few advertised.
Dirtyboy333
10-30-10, 20:09
Im glad to hear this...my only concern is that i assume all of you are talking about a CL barrel. Would it still be ok to not clean the barrel for say 500 or so rounds with a non-chrome barrel? I only shoot commercial ammo mainly the Wal-Mart 100rd. Federal Bulk pack. Most of the ammo i shoot doesnt say "non-corrosive" on the box but maybe thats just standard for .223?
Alpha Sierra
10-30-10, 20:11
I thoroughly clean each and every firearm I own as soon as practical after every use.
That includes carbines, shotguns, hunting rifles, precision rifles, and handguns.
Done properly, it harms nothing.
Littlelebowski
10-30-10, 20:32
I thoroughly clean each and every firearm I own as soon as practical after every use.
That includes carbines, shotguns, hunting rifles, precision rifles, and handguns.
Done properly, it harms nothing.
You must have a lot of free time to waste.
Im glad to hear this...my only concern is that i assume all of you are talking about a CL barrel. Would it still be ok to not clean the barrel for say 500 or so rounds with a non-chrome barrel? I only shoot commercial ammo mainly the Wal-Mart 100rd. Federal Bulk pack. Most of the ammo i shoot doesnt say "non-corrosive" on the box but maybe thats just standard for .223?
It shouldn't hurt a non-CL barrel.... but.
There's a high positive correlation between the M4 TDP calling out for CL barrels, and the name of this forum.
If you intend to use your carbine as your carbine was designed for, get a CL barrel.
Dirtyboy333
10-30-10, 21:15
It shouldn't hurt a non-CL barrel.... but.
There's a high positive correlation between the M4 TDP calling out for CL barrels, and the name of this forum.
If you intend to use your carbine as your carbine was designed for, get a CL barrel.
Thanks for the reply, Yes i understand the importance of CL and now i do buy CL...... My most recent Daniel Defense has it and would never buy again w/o it. But, before i knew about this site/ or anything about AR's i bought a cheap 1 w/o it. ha but i must say that ive been very happy with my budget carbine i just wouldnt buy again knowing what i know now.
Alpha Sierra
10-30-10, 21:38
You must have a lot of free time to waste.
No, I don't have time to waste. I have it down to a set sequence for each type and get it done quickly.
I'm not talking about white glove clean. I'm talking about a clean bore, clean receiver, and clean, oiled exterior metal.
Littlelebowski
10-30-10, 21:42
No, I don't have time to waste. I have it down to a set sequence for each type and get it done quickly.
I'm not talking about white glove clean. I'm talking about a clean bore, clean receiver, and clean, oiled exterior metal.
So, how clean of a bore? If you're really cleaning, do you know your cold bore zero? What weapons are you running that need the exterior cleaned? Blued 1911s or something?
Littlelebowski
10-30-10, 21:46
When was the last time you had a weapon fail you because it was not clean? Be specific.
You do know this it's possible to do a function check without cleaning, right?
Thank Buddha posts like these are in the minority for this site.
I'm not knocking your personal standards towards weapons maintenance, but I think just the opposite....I do not trust a dirty weapon.
With a dirty weapon, who knows just what is lurking under that carbon and firing residue? What happened during that last range session that if left unnoticed, will fail me at the next trigger pull....when that trigger pull might mean the difference between life or death. A chipped FP? A cracked Cam Pin hole? A chipped and cracked Bolt Lug? A chipped Extractor Claw?
I personally feel safer with a clean, freshly inspected weapon. If cleaned, re-lubed, properly re-assembled and function checked, there should be no doubt in my mind that my weapon is still reliable and will function when needed next.
No, I don't have time to waste. I have it down to a set sequence for each type and get it done quickly.
I'm not talking about white glove clean. I'm talking about a clean bore, clean receiver, and clean, oiled exterior metal.
This is why I have grown so reluctant, to take part in these types of discussions. It never fails that someone will come along that knows better than you, what your priorities should be, how to allocate your time and is more than willing to set the bar for your personal standards.
Littlelebowski
10-30-10, 21:56
I always cling to the belief that folks can understand how weapons work and rise above the lowest common denominator style of instruction that some organizations teach. Yet folks still engage in "weapons worship" where they believe that in by worshiping the weapon through asinine, unnecessary cleaning; the weapon will function perfectly and accurately for them.
I'd rather be dry firing than cleaning but I'm crazy that way about the smell of solvents and getting carbon all over. I also have this weird impression brought about through experience that dry fire does more for a shooter than worrying about a little carbon.
Its also possible to have a weapon "pass" a basic function check, and still not work.
Long ago, I was getting my 1911 squeaky clean at the range, after I lubed it, and reassembled it, the range owner, who had a lot more gunfighting expieriance, told me to "go shoot 50 rounds thru it now, so you know it'll be ready to shoot for ya, if you need it"
I generally don't give it much thought, I clean them when I'm bored, or feel guilty, or I'm getting paid for it.
At one arms room, of a former employer, there was a sign that read, "if you have time to shoot, you have time to clean".... what BS. Maybe, if the gun gets cought in a downpour, dumped in the mud or otherwise see's extreme conditions, certaintly not 30 rounds indoors.
Bob
I thoroughly clean each and every firearm I own as soon as practical after every use.
That includes carbines, shotguns, hunting rifles, precision rifles, and handguns.
Done properly, it harms nothing.
I'm the same way. I think this came from shooting revolvers when I first started out as dirt under the star extractor or powder carbon build up on the cylinder has gotten my smith's more then once. I also end up bring half the desert home with me when shooting.
I usually never shoot less then a couple hundred rounds in a gun at a range session as I concentrate training one thing every time out. I enjoy inspecting/cleaning my firearms so it's a win win for me. I don't go as far as the BS cleaning that we did in the service but a once over while looking for wear on parts.
Exception is my precision bolt gun shoots like crap first 20 rounds after being cleaned but only gun I notice it on. I hunt typically with my AR which shoots the same clean or dirty.
In the end it's your firearm do as you please.
For the last few months my regimen consists of shoot my weapon, wipe off the BCG, and the inside of the upper and charging handle, look for anything out of the ordinary and then lube it and put it back together. I think I might have punched the bore once.
Just the past weekend alone I put about 500 rounds down range in 2 days. I have yet to have a malfunction. Wait, I did have one. It was a dead primer, so that was ammo related.
You should do a search for Pat Rogers 'filthy 14'. The last I heard he was upwards of 30,000 rounds or so.
I do not have the issue in front of me....but if I remember correctly, he did not suggest this type of treatment for a duty weapon.
That is an oft-overlooked point. Filthy 14 has over 37k rounds through it because it's a T&E gun, being beaten to death for a purpose. It's also not the only one in that stable, just the greatest round-count and the greatest biohazard of the bunch (that thing SMELLS, man!).
Nobody should be saying that a shooter should blueprint their personal rifle's preventative-maintenance schedule to that of a T&E gun. That'd be more than a bit beyond the pale.
One's cleaning schedule is one's own choice, and of no impact or import to anybody else. One's cleaning methodology, however....just keep the scraping of carbon to a minimum (there's topical ointments and fluids for that sort of thing), and for the love of sweet shivering f**k, don't scrape the crown of the muzzle.
Jake Bauer
10-31-10, 04:54
I'm not a regular shooter. I get to shoot maybe once every couple months. I completely clean any firearm right after I get done shooting it. I just like having clean guns. I will admit that I'm in the "overcleaner" category. I like my bores and chambers to be mirror shined spotless. However, I've noticed it doesnt take me near as long to get a good shine in my DD's bore as it does my Sig or HK pistols, and the chamber, BCG only takes some cleaner and a wipe off to be "perfect" in my definition. I guess that's because I keep it wet with lots of CLP before I shoot it.
Could someone enlighten me on what is "improper" cleaning?
I too have a range at home and shoot often. Aside from my duty rifle, I clean my rifles after every 1000 rounds or so. I clean my handguns more frequently but I make sure I have one completely clean for CCW.
How do you insure that the "clean" firearm is functioning reliably?
To the OP, I believe that routine is way overkill... I run my rifles wet and clean them every 1500-2k out of guilt not necessity... I do run a bore-snake through the bore after I shoot though...
I have found quality firearms run just fine without being cleaned after each session.
jklaughrey
10-31-10, 08:22
I see fellow deputies clean like Snow white all the time. Me I prefer to spend my down time at the desk on M4C! Pull the BCG, check upper/lower for abnormal wear, lube and back to rack.
There seems to be a lot of prior service people (from the 90s and before especially) that can't seem to bring themselves to NOT attack the gun with all manner of solvents, scrapers, drills, pipe cleaners, etc. It's their time, and their money, but I will always default to my own personal experience shooting the shit out of guns that make these people cringe yet miraculously having no more malfunctions than they do.
Personally I can think of any one of ten billion things I'd rather do than clean a gun (I also hate reloading) so it works out well for me. Some of these same people seem to have some genetic defect whereby they actually claim to ENJOY the cleaning. It's their time, money, and gun, but frankly I find it ****ing creepy (right up there with all those bizarre suburban male wastes of time like incessantly scrubbing their cars, maintaining their yards, cleaning their pools, and generally looking for distractions to their life eeking by). When new shooters ask me how often they should clean their gun I generally tell them to clean it around the time you start seeing malfunctions due to filth DESPITE proper lubrication.
Beat Trash
10-31-10, 08:51
To the OP, I'd wipe the BCG down and maybe run a bore snake through it once a week. When you can't stand it any more, or maybe once a month or so, I'd clean it.
Many good barrels have been ruined by improper cleaning.
If I am not planning on shooting a gun for an extended period, then I'll clean it. I have some guns I keep for sentimental reasons, that may get shot once a year or so. These are cleaned and oiled prior to being put up.
My duty pistol gets cleaned prior to carrying. I can test it with a pencil to ensure the striker works.
I was a Marine from the early 1980's. We were taught that a dirty gun was sin against God and Chesty Puller. Old habits die hard!
GermanSynergy
10-31-10, 10:26
I ran 300 rounds of Hornady 55 grain Training ammo thru my BCM middy last night, and another 300 rds of Barnaul thru my brother's Sabre Defence carbine upper w/o issue. Slathered the BCG in Slip 2000 and went hot.
A cursory cleaning will commence in 700 rds. :big_boss:
Wow... I sure appreciate the great response.
I readily admit my tendency to want to keep my guns clean. But at the same time, being new to the AR, I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything that would be harmful to the guns.
After reading the article on Filthy 14, I get the point that a good AR doesn't have to be clean to run well. Of course, Filthy 14 is a T&E and I'd NEVER do anything like that to one of my guns.
It sure looks like the best course is to wipe down the BCG and pull a bore snake with, perhaps, FP-10 after each of my brief late night sessions rather than a formal cleaning.
I'm curious... I've read many reports by people who say they "wet down" the action during high round count shooting sessions... what's the best procedure to do this? A spray can of FP-10, for example, just spraying into the open chamber?
I happen to really like FP-10 as a one-product solution that isn't corrosive or hazardous, and have used it for years on my handguns and shotguns, but should I be using something else for keeping the AR wet? A spray product to squirt into the action, as well as liquid for swab use?
CaptainDooley
10-31-10, 13:55
It's their time, money, and gun, but frankly I find it ****ing creepy (right up there with all those bizarre suburban male wastes of time like incessantly scrubbing their cars, maintaining their yards, cleaning their pools, and generally looking for distractions to their life eeking by).
I'm with you on this. There are so many things I'd rather do and people I'd actually rather spend time with. Best thing I've done for my marriage in a long time was pay someone to do the yard - I got a whole Saturday back to spend with the family. Heck, when I do clean guns it's late at night and as efficient and quick as I can make it.
GermanSynergy
10-31-10, 14:13
Prior to any high volume shooting (carbine class) I remove the BCG and lube generously with LaRue MG oil or Slip 2000 EWL. You'll get some lube on the mag and elsewhere, but it will ensure your weapon is ready to go.
During breaks, inspect as necessary and re-apply lube as needed.
I would not recommend spraying lube into the chamber. Hit the BCG and bolt and you should be GTG.
I'm curious... I've read many reports by people who say they "wet down" the action during high round count shooting sessions... what's the best procedure to do this? A spray can of FP-10, for example, just spraying into the open chamber?
I happen to really like FP-10 as a one-product solution that isn't corrosive or hazardous, and have used it for years on my handguns and shotguns, but should I be using something else for keeping the AR wet? A spray product to squirt into the action, as well as liquid for swab use?
Alpha Sierra
10-31-10, 14:21
I always cling to the belief that folks can understand how weapons work and rise above the lowest common denominator style of instruction that some organizations teach. Yet folks still engage in "weapons worship" where they believe that in by worshiping the weapon through asinine, unnecessary cleaning; the weapon will function perfectly and accurately for them.
Who do you think you are to make stupid generalizations like that about people you know nothing of?
You're way the F out of line.
Prior to any high volume shooting (carbine class) I remove the BCG and lube generously with LaRue MG oil or Slip 2000 EWL. You'll get some lube on the mag and elsewhere, but it will ensure your weapon is ready to go.
During breaks, inspect as necessary and re-apply lube as needed.
I would not recommend spraying lube into the chamber. Hit the BCG and bolt and you should be GTG.
Makes good sense. Thank you.
So... Slip 2000 lube vs. Slip 2000 EWL? Significant differences between these choices for use in an AR?
How do you insure that the "clean" firearm is functioning reliably?
To the OP, I believe that routine is way overkill... I run my rifles wet and clean them every 1500-2k out of guilt not necessity... I do run a bore-snake through the bore after I shoot though...
I have found quality firearms run just fine without being cleaned after each session.
Simple manufacturer recommended function checks. Before I was a police officer, I was involved in a shooting situation while visiting a friend in a less than nice neighborhood and the first thing the police did when the arrived was check our weapons to see if the had been fired.
BlueOvalFan
10-31-10, 18:23
I think I'm agreeance with most others here too, I clean my AR and pistols after two or three range visits. I most certainly wipe them down inside and out every time, run an oil patch through the bore and re-lube the friction points after each use.
As for my hunting rifles and shotguns I clean those after each use if they are not to be used again the next day. They're exposed to the elements (snow, rain and mud) and need to be cleaned to minimize surface rust that will arise if not properly cleaned/wiped down. (My guns are older and have wearing of the blueing on my Browning A-5's and Winchester Model 94).
Who do you think you are to make stupid generalizations like that about people you know nothing of?
A former Marine in an otherwise quiet state of near-constant rage at all the time wasted that could have been spent drinking beer, getting soapies in Thailand, and trying to tip Guam over just to see if it can be done. Being betrayed by an institution will do that to a person. I can identify, as I'm sure many from other branches who now know better can as well.
It spills out every now and again, and the amazing thing about generalizations is that, when applied to the general population, they ring true.
Since what LL posted clearly wasn't targeted at an individual, it's pretty on-point, and perhaps struck a nerve? The above response is worse, in that it presumes to speak for a large group when expressing what is, in this idiom, a clear minority outrage based on being unable to separate the message from the medium because a bliddy smiley wasn't used.
You are way to F sensitive, need to be more honest with yourself in regard to what pisses YOU off and be able to articulate it in that fashion, instead of presuming to speak for others. 14 posts later, with no objection other than yours. That's a clue.
Spare us all.
GermanSynergy
10-31-10, 18:28
To be honest, I'm not sure. If for whatever reason you can't find Slip EWL, LaRue MG lube is an excellent alternative. I give the small bottles out at carbine classes to the guys that may have forgotten to bring lube, or have run out.
Makes good sense. Thank you.
So... Slip 2000 lube vs. Slip 2000 EWL? Significant differences between these choices for use in an AR?
Dirtyboy333
10-31-10, 19:31
A former Marine in an otherwise quiet state of near-constant rage at all the time wasted that could have been spent drinking beer, getting soapies in Thailand, and trying to tip Guam over just to see if it can be done. Being betrayed by an institution will do that to a person. I can identify, as I'm sure many from other branches who now know better can as well.
It spills out every now and again, and the amazing thing about generalizations is that, when applied to the general population, they ring true.
Since what LL posted clearly wasn't targeted at an individual, it's pretty on-point, and perhaps struck a nerve? The above response is worse, in that it presumes to speak for a large group when expressing what is, in this idiom, a clear minority outrage based on being unable to separate the message from the medium because a bliddy smiley wasn't used.
You are way to F sensitive, need to be more honest with yourself in regard to what pisses YOU off and be able to articulate it in that fashion, instead of presuming to speak for others. 14 posts later, with no objection other than yours. That's a clue.
Spare us all. Well i'll chime in mr. moderator.....if you look at the previous posts by LL in this thread from the get go hes just straight being an asshole for no reason whatsoever. You talk about 14 posts later and no-ones said anything....Well let me say I wanted to say something but didnt want to get into the middle of it for fear of getting jumped by some of the buddy-buddy snobs on here. I think that if people would read the earlier posts i would ASSUME that he in fact IS speaking for alot of others who just wanted to keep quiet for the same reason as i. Im not a sensitive person at all but just cant understand why people need to be so F'n rude to others for no reason and questioning peoples preferences. The OP asked a cleaning question and people responded with their method...no need to be a dick
Now im sure yourself or some of your buddies will blow this out of proportion and jump down my throat which is fine with me. I wouldnt dare have questioned a "moderator" or his "boyz" w/o being prepared for the shit storm.
I have a request... Can we just go back on topic from this post on? Would probably best best for us all. Thanks very much everyone.
Captains1911
10-31-10, 19:57
How do you insure that the "clean" firearm is functioning reliably?
To the OP, I believe that routine is way overkill... I run my rifles wet and clean them every 1500-2k out of guilt not necessity... I do run a bore-snake through the bore after I shoot though...
I have found quality firearms run just fine without being cleaned after each session.
I can't believe people are seriously implying that a clean firearm is less reliable than the same firearm dirty. IMO this is absolute hogwash, and completely backwards thinking.
If the firearm is reliable before cleaning, than as long as you don't do something completely retarded to it in the process of cleaning, it will be just as reliable after cleaned. I will argue that it's more reliable not only because it's cleaned and freshly lubricated, but because it's been inspected. A function test after reassembly will also confirm reliability.
Do most of you guys clean, lube, and protect with one product? Or clean with one product and lube with another.
With my other firearms I've been really happy using a single product for all, FP-10. I see that Slip 2000 is popular among forum members on their ARs, so I'm wondering if most of you Slip 2000 users use it exclusively in maintaining your ARs?
Captains1911
10-31-10, 20:10
Do most of you guys clean, lube, and protect with one product? Or clean with one product and lube with another.
With my other firearms I've been really happy using a single product for all, FP-10. I see that Slip 2000 is popular among forum members on their ARs, so I'm wondering if most of you Slip 2000 users use it exclusively in maintaining your ARs?
I clean everything with Slip 2000, except if the bore is real dirty I'll hit it with Hoppes #9. I lube with Slip 2000 EWL. If I had to choose one product to do it all it would definitely be Slip 2000. This is what I do with all my firearms, not just ARs.
DaBears_85
10-31-10, 20:56
Wow... I sure appreciate the great response.
I readily admit my tendency to want to keep my guns clean. But at the same time, being new to the AR, I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything that would be harmful to the guns.
After reading the article on Filthy 14, I get the point that a good AR doesn't have to be clean to run well. Of course, Filthy 14 is a T&E and I'd NEVER do anything like that to one of my guns.
No, I hear you. You're free to clean your weapons whenever you please. I simply mentioned the 'filthy 14' to give you some perspective on the overall importance of cleaning, not as a definitive answer one way or the other.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the gun will be more reliable "dirty" then clean. Only that after cleaning and "inspecting", you never really know, now do you? And,that it doesn't have to be "clean" to be reliable, certainly 30 rounds thru any weapon I can think, will not be a problem.
Function checks are generally limited, even with the pencil down the bore trick. How about extractor or ejector tension? How about a improperly assembled weapon? It happens, even to the best of 'em. Every gun is only one round away from a catostophic failure, anyway, don't get to wrapped up in it.
I've used or seen used WD40, Breakfree/CLP, Hoppes, Gunscrubber, brakecleaner, hot soapy water, tide, oven cleaner, simplegreen, various Zep cleaners, etc. etc. Currently, I use Zep at work, and M-pro at home for cleaning.
Most of them cause no problems, at least not if you know what your using, and what its down sides are. Hot water is OK, as long as you get it dry and lubed.
For lube, I've used another long list of whatever is available. Currently, I use TW25 grease to lube. I basically paint it on. I also use Militec, and Slip as wet lubes when needed.
Its more important to make sure it's lubed, then what lube you use.
I suppose FP10 is fine, if thats what you have.
Theres been more then a few threads about weapon maintenance in the past, I'm sure they have all the info you could read.
Bob
Sounds good. Thanks for the input from everyone. I'm going to get some Slip 2000 and do a light wipe down to BCG and snake the bore with it after my 30 round "nightcaps" then do a more thorough cleaning after a few hundred rounds.
I wash my car, which is parked outside, about once a year whether it needs it or not and keep my 5 acre landscape almost entirely natural aside from mowing the lawn when it gets out of control. Strangely, I guess, I enjoy maintaining my guns and time for that isn't a problem for me generally.
I was thinking that if I didn't clean often, the carbon build up could be much more difficult to get rid of with infrequent cleanings... But it sounds from most of the posts here that this isn't really a problem.
Does most of the carbon build up take place on the taper at the back of the bolt?
GermanSynergy
10-31-10, 22:08
Some of it accumulates there, yes. Some people scrape it off, I do not.
Sounds good. Thanks for the input from everyone. I'm going to get some Slip 2000 and do a light wipe down to BCG and snake the bore with it after my 30 round "nightcaps" then do a more thorough cleaning after a few hundred rounds. I enjoy maintaining the guns and time isn't a problem for me generally.
I was thinking that if I didn't clean often, the carbon build up could be much more difficult to get rid of with infrequent cleanings... But it sounds from most of the posts here that this isn't really a problem.
Does most of the carbon build up take place on the taper at the back of the bolt?
Another place to look for carbon build up is on certain muzzle devices. I don't do anything with it expect for like every 2-3 years then will give it a good cleaning. Depending on how many rounds or quality of rounds you may need to do it more or less.
I use Mpro 7 for cleaning the guns in the house as it works good with no smell and mobil 1 synthetic for lube.
When was the last time you had a weapon fail you because it was not clean? Be specific.
You do know this it's possible to do a function check without cleaning, right?
Thank Buddha posts like these are in the minority for this site.
.........and thank whom ever that we have your no BS, real-world, face shooting experience to reference for all of our long gun needs.........
You're a tool. You should find a lane and stay in it. Offering guidance to others on long guns aint it.
I can't believe people are seriously implying that a clean firearm is less reliable than the same firearm dirty. IMO this is absolute hogwash, and completely backwards thinking.
If the firearm is reliable before cleaning, than as long as you don't do something completely retarded to it in the process of cleaning, it will be just as reliable after cleaned. I will argue that it's more reliable not only because it's cleaned and freshly lubricated, but because it's been inspected. A function test after reassembly will also confirm reliability.
I've done something "completely retarded" putting an AR-15 back together after cleaning it. It passed function checks. The only thing that revealed I had done something stupid on reassembly was that it went click instead of bang when I pulled the trigger on a live round. That would have been a seriously bad situation if I had been standing in front of a person with hostile intentions.
I think what people are saying in essence is that unless the gun has fired rounds since reassembly, you can't be 100% certain you didn't screw something up; it's Schrodinger's Cat.
Ok, this is an arguement that nobody really wins. There are extremes in regard to cleaning practices and the ones who don't and the ones who use drills, etc are negligent in thier practices. I know it seems to be the "in" thing recently to neglect a firearm, why I don't know.
Bottom line is how detail and in depth of a cleaning do you perform?
We all know that the AR system runs best "wet" dirty(maybe) or clean. I've said this and I'm sure others have--if you are responsible for your life and others--you should be cleaning and inspecting your weapon to insure it works. If you are not able to take it apart to clean it and put it back together properly-then you need some guidance.
This thread has run it's course.
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