View Full Version : LWRCI advanced combat bolt?
has anyone tried one of these in the DI guns? It looks like they have an updated version out and I wanted to know if there's any performance difference like longevity or a reduction in failures compared to a standard bcm or equivalent bolt
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7791
Thomas M-4
10-30-10, 13:32
has anyone tried one of these in the DI guns? It looks like they have an updated version out and I wanted to know if there's any performance difference like longevity or a reduction in failures compared to a standard bcm or equivalent bolt
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7791
No experience with the LWRC bolt but if you ask my opinion. It looks like a less than Ideal copy of the LMT enhanced bolt.
No experience with the LWRC bolt but if you ask my opinion. It looks like a less than Ideal copy of the LMT enhanced bolt.
What makes it less than Ideal?
Thomas M-4
10-30-10, 14:05
What makes it less than Ideal?
The LMT bolt has relief cuts on the lugs and relief cuts behind the lugs. Is the first thing I notice different. The second LMT actually cuts the lug opposite the extractor and it no longer bears a load. So actually there are six equally spaced lugs on the LMT taking the load. I didn't see that mentioned in the LWRC ? Armalite does the six lug thing also on there version. I also didn't see HP/ MPI testing does LWRC do that?
Lastly just my experience with cars that when every body starts coping a performance part that usually [Not all the time mind you] That the copy less than Ideal than the originator. I will add one more thing LWRC has released parts in the past that have been quickly replaced with a new GEN part from LWRC shortly after . In other words I don't want to be the Betta tester.
I wanted one of these too. Look into the lmt one if you get one though...
No experience with the LWRC bolt but if you ask my opinion. It looks like a less than Ideal copy of the LMT enhanced bolt.
I think you have it backwards. The LMT bolt is a clone of the LWRC bolt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe LWRC had their Advanced Combat Bolt way before LMT did. Also, I don't see any relief cuts on the lugs of the LWRC or LMT bolts. The original LWRC ACB had relief cuts on the lugs, but I think they dropped that feature because it wasn't needed and only weakened the bolt.
http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers-groups/556-enhanced-bolt-assembly.html
http://www.lwrci.com/p-195-556-advanced-combat-bolt.aspx
I know what you mean about copying a part, since LWRC has come out with their piston system, a lot of DI AR-15 owners cried that you don't need a piston gun, and defended their DI guns. Now everyone is making a piston clone, including LMT. I like LMT, but just for the hammer forged barrels, customer service and constantly improving their products, I'd get an LWRC. That being said, I actually own a LWRC M6A3 and REPR, and gladly sold off all my DI AR-15's.
Thomas M-4
10-30-10, 22:35
I think you have it backwards. The LMT bolt is a clone of the LWRC bolt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe LWRC had their Advanced Combat Bolt way before LMT did. Also, I don't see any relief cuts on the lugs of the LWRC or LMT bolts. The original LWRC ACB had relief cuts on the lugs, but I think they dropped that feature because it wasn't needed and only weakened the bolt.
http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers-groups/556-enhanced-bolt-assembly.html
http://www.lwrci.com/p-195-556-advanced-combat-bolt.aspx
I know what you mean about copying a part, since LWRC has come out with their piston system, a lot of DI AR-15 owners cried that you don't need a piston gun, and defended their DI guns. Now everyone is making a piston clone, including LMT. I like LMT, but just for the hammer forged barrels, customer service and constantly improving their products, I'd get an LWRC. That being said, I actually own a LWRC M6A3 and REPR, and gladly sold off all my DI AR-15's.
Don't know picked mine up 3 yrs ago and it wasn't that new back then.
I don't know about the redesign?I haven't seen anything but Its been a while since I was on LMT website. Barrett used to use LMT enhanced bolt on there rifle at one time ? D&L sports sells a bolt that looks EXACTLY! Like the LMT enhanced bolt. Makes me wonder if The LWRC bolt is an LMT bolt?
Heavy Metal
10-30-10, 23:03
I think you have it backwards. The LMT bolt is a clone of the LWRC bolt. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe LWRC had their Advanced Combat Bolt way before LMT did. Also, I don't see any relief cuts on the lugs of the LWRC or LMT bolts. The original LWRC ACB had relief cuts on the lugs, but I think they dropped that feature because it wasn't needed and only weakened the bolt.
http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers-groups/556-enhanced-bolt-assembly.html
http://www.lwrci.com/p-195-556-advanced-combat-bolt.aspx
I know what you mean about copying a part, since LWRC has come out with their piston system, a lot of DI AR-15 owners cried that you don't need a piston gun, and defended their DI guns. Now everyone is making a piston clone, including LMT. I like LMT, but just for the hammer forged barrels, customer service and constantly improving their products, I'd get an LWRC. That being said, I actually own a LWRC M6A3 and REPR, and gladly sold off all my DI AR-15's.
The LMT part predates the LWRC bolt by a couple of years and has gone thru a cople of generations too.
I can't remember the dates and don't quote me, but I thought LWRC had made the ACB a couple years ago but they weren't easy to come by. I tried searching the LWRC forum real quick, and the oldest mention of someone purchasing one (with photo) was in 2008. I thought that LMT had copied LWRC's bolt but can't find the info now of course...
Here's a post from 2008 mentions that the ACB isn't a standard production item (but it is now). I don't know how long it was produced before then (and for who). They do mention using a LMT version of the ACB if you really needed one.
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2267&hilit=lmt+lwrc+bolt
I run LMT Enhanced in my LMTs and LWRC ACB in my LWRCs just to keep things same/same.
So far, no preference or difference between the two.
Heavy Metal
10-31-10, 09:35
I have been running an LMT enhanced bolt since 05 FWIW.
Im not sure whos a copy of whom but ive been running a LMT Enhanced BCG for over a year now and no problems.
Personally over the years ive been very impressed with all of LMT's products.
Thomas M-4
10-31-10, 10:29
I can't remember the dates and don't quote me, but I thought LWRC had made the ACB a couple years ago but they weren't easy to come by. I tried searching the LWRC forum real quick, and the oldest mention of someone purchasing one (with photo) was in 2008. I thought that LMT had copied LWRC's bolt but can't find the info now of course...
Here's a post from 2008 mentions that the ACB isn't a standard production item (but it is now). I don't know how long it was produced before then (and for who). They do mention using a LMT version of the ACB if you really needed one.
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2267&hilit=lmt+lwrc+bolt
Here is a thread from 1-22-07 on the LMT enhanced bolt.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3379
Bill Alexander posted a very good response describing the LMT enhanced bolt. Any way I am certain the LMT was first and actully beleive now that the LWRC acb is a LMT enhanced bolt just relabeled.
[QUOTE=Thomas M-4;800598]
Barrett used to use LMT enhanced bolt on there rifle at one time ? [QUOTE]
Barrett has their own 'enhanced' bolt for the REC7 rifles.
Thomas M-4
10-31-10, 15:51
[QUOTE=Thomas M-4;800598]
Barrett used to use LMT enhanced bolt on there rifle at one time ? [QUOTE]
Barrett has their own 'enhanced' bolt for the REC7 rifles.
Probably now hence [used to be at one time?] statement.
It was 3-4 yrs ago but remember seeing a Barret advertisement that pointed it out and named it as LMT. How many changes have been done to the REC7 since introduction?
It is offered as an "enhanced" bolt, and actually, I don't know if it is their own bolt design or not.
I have a LWRC ACB and if you compare the specs on the LWRC ACB and JP enhanced bolt they appear to be the same.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.7_bc.php#1
the lmt bolt dates from the 2001/2002 timeframe and the lwrc bolt from around 2004.
both the lwrc bolt and the original jp enhanced bolt have the fully supported bolt face, the lmt does not. the lmt and lwrc bolts have twin extractor springs, the jp uses the standard extractor spring.
Thomas M-4
11-01-10, 09:52
the lmt bolt dates from the 2001/2002 timeframe and the lwrc bolt from around 2004.
both the lwrc bolt and the original jp enhanced bolt have the fully supported bolt face, the lmt does not. the lmt and lwrc bolts have twin extractor springs, the jp uses the standard extractor spring.
LMT enhanced bolt does have a fully supported bolt face.
LMT enhanced bolt does have a fully supported bolt face.
no, i suggest you look again because it's only partially supported, the locking lugs either side of the extractor cut are both still undercut like the mil-spec bolt. these undercuts are absent in the lwrc and jp bolts which means their locking lugs are stronger and less prone to breakage.
One should remember that Karl Lewis (LMT) held some sort of financial interest in LWRC way back when. As I remember it, LWRC's first ACB design didn't show up until after Lewis severed his relations with the company.
Thomas M-4
11-01-10, 11:19
no, i suggest you look again because it's only partially supported, the locking lugs either side of the extractor cut are both still undercut like the mil-spec bolt. these undercuts are absent in the lwrc and jp bolts which means their locking lugs are stronger and less prone to breakage.
Ok I am :confused:
The bolt face is fully supported http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers-groups/556-enhanced-bolt-assembly.html
The base of the case is not fully supported is that what you are referring to?
Ok I am :confused:
The bolt face is fully supported http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers-groups/556-enhanced-bolt-assembly.html
The base of the case is not fully supported is that what you are referring to?
we're saying the same thing :)
Thomas M-4
11-01-10, 11:46
we're saying the same thing :)
I cant link directly to the pic :sad:http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access.html scroll all the way down to the bottom of page there are 3 pics of the lmt bolt the last one you can click on it and a bigger pop up pic comes up it shows a fully supported bolt face full O. The second image shows the relief cut under the extractor for the bolt face.
http://https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1495[/IMG]
http://https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1496[/IMG]
Thomas M-4
11-01-10, 12:12
http://https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1495[/IMG]
http://https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1496[/IMG]
:happy: yea that's it.
http://www.leitner-wise.com/file/images/HPB_prod_img.gif
as you can see with the above image, the bolt face transitions into the lugs rather than undercuts them as with the usgi bolt and to a lesser extent, the lmt one.
LWRCI ACB
http://i53.tinypic.com/1iehbn.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/29p820w.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/4rdtls.jpg
One should remember that Karl Lewis (LMT) held some sort of financial interest in LWRC way back when. As I remember it, LWRC's first ACB design didn't show up until after Lewis severed his relations with the company.
To my knowledge, Karl Lewis has never had any association with LWRC. Are you thinking of Paul Leitner-Wise?
Stephen
Thomas M-4
11-01-10, 18:37
http://www.leitner-wise.com/file/images/HPB_prod_img.gif
as you can see with the above image, the bolt face transitions into the lugs rather than undercuts them as with the usgi bolt and to a lesser extent, the lmt one.
Haa I see what your talking about now.
The lug being cut at an angle on the side wall of the bolt.
Am I correct?
Haa I see what your talking about now.
The lug being cut at an angle on the side wall of the bolt.
Am I correct?
correct.
To my knowledge, Karl Lewis has never had any association with LWRC. Are you thinking of Paul Leitner-Wise?
From what I remember, around the turn of the century, Karl R. Lewis was on LWRC's Board of Directors. Then there was an ugly split, and various legal documents and letters were being scanned and posted on The Other Site for all to see. Afterwards, PLW started making claims how his new ACB and MRS modular upper would bury LMT's counterparts.
BigBoss0311
11-04-10, 16:19
From the LWRC website from a LWRC designer:
Is the ACB made in house or by a subcontractor?
They are made in-house. The design goes back to late 2003 or early 2004 for use in the LW.499
With the exception of some SOPMOD stocks we purchased from LMT for the Tricon guns, we do not purchase any item from them.
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