View Full Version : Dissipator style AR for Home Defensive purposes
After doing a lot of research for an AR style weapon for Home defense duty, I've finally settled for a Dissipator style AR. I understand that many people are not fond of this type of AR. To me this type of weapon makes a lot of sense. I would like to get it with the A2 upper and would like to keep it as simple as possible for reliability issues. No tacticool stuff, no electronic sights, VGs, rails, nothing, well the only additions would be a light source and trijicon night sights. Trying to keep it as reliable as possible my questions to all of you are the following:
1) Should I buy a complete rifle from a major manufacturer?
2) Get a complete upper and lower and just "pin" them together?
3) Get a rifle kit and assemble it?
On question number 3, I must add that I've never assembled an AR and don't have an idea on how difficult they are to assemble. How much money do you spend on tools? Is it worth it in the end?
Thanks ya'll!
P.S. If any of you have read this before I posted in a non specific forum. Should've posted here first.
Welcome to the board, buying the complete weapon, or the assembled upper and lower may be your best bet. Figure out the complete layout you are looking for, and go from there. People will be more than happy to point out different things based on the complete concept you have in mind.
Is there a reason you are looking at tritium sights? When you use a flashlight, they are pretty worthless. Things you are labeling as "tacticool" are proven to make a more effective platform, its not about looking cool.
lethal dose
10-30-10, 23:04
Personally, I don't like the rear tritium sights on an ar. If you're shooting nose to charging handle, those little green dots glare in your face like headlights. I'd skip the tritiums all together. First, buy a good white light... that's essential for hd. Secondly, don't discount a quality red dot such as an aimpoint. Beyond that, it's user preference... I just feel those two things are vital.
genegoesfast
10-31-10, 00:11
I'm going to second a good red dot here as well. Don't forget defense rounds. You might consider a spikes upper and lower for around 760. Very reliable and mil spec.
Thanks for the welcome Stick and thank you both for the comments. New here, as you can tell. Well, thanks for the input on the tritium sights. I thought they would be a good idea in case the light went down in the middle of an "engagement". But I'll definitely take your advise and (obvious) experience. On both recommendations. I guess I misused the word tacticool. What I meant is, I'm a firm believer of Murphy sticking it to you so I'm trying to keep the gun with less parts that can go wrong. I understand that a red dot will not render the weapon inoperable but like I said I believe iron sights for HD are ok. The light is the only extra addition I want to make.
So as it stands, options one and two will be the only ones considered. Now gentlemen, I've seen a couple of inexpensive complete lowers (I want to take advantage of a collapsible stock) some of them being Aero Precision, Doublestar, Barnes Precision which I understand are not major manufacturers. Should I be "afraid" of these brands?
Thanks again!
Buy a complete gun or an upper and lower an pin them together. I have a tritium FS on one of my guns. The rear is useless. Listen to the advice given you here above. It is solid.
The_Hammer_Man
10-31-10, 02:02
Buy a complete gun or an upper and lower an pin them together. I have a tritium FS on one of my guns. The rear is useless. Listen to the advice given you here above. It is solid.
+1 to all of the above!
For HD/SD I use a flat topped upper w/ a red dot sight as my primary sighting tool. (Aimpoint H-1 to be exact)
My HD carbine has a rifle length tube on it with my X-300 in front of my front flip-up sights.
And yes, I do have a tritium insert in my front sight :)
belts and suspenders gents
Depending on your budget, Imo its best to buy a complete upper and build your lower. The fancy tools are nice, and may prevent damage to your weapon, but ive built several lowers with nothing more than a few roll pin punches, a hammer,screwdriver, and a buttstock tool.
The most bang for the buck right now would be a complete BCM upper, And a 90$ Spikes Tactical lower from brownells, or a Daniel Defense lower from GR Tactical for 125ish. Combine either one of these with GR Tacticals lower parts kit, furniture of your choice and youve got a fine, battle ready weapon.
As far as the "tacticool" stuff, as it has already been said, sure it makes the weapon look "cool" but all that gear you named has a effective purpose. Whit light, for one will obviously light up your target so you can see where to shoot as well as temorarily blind your target as long as you have a bright enough light.
A red dot sight will basically allow you to get on target faster. Pretty much what i would want in a defense situation.
I understand your concern over Mr. Murphy but like Stick said, some parts just make the gun better.
do a little more research with the top brand names (aimpoint, surefire,magpul,etc) and you just may be surprised at how much better your gun handles and actually will make you a better fighter (with training of course).
there is a very good reason that these products are invented, and are used everyday by those that are in combat everyday. they know about Murphy too.
don't try to outsmart the smart guys, just learn from the guys that have been there and done that.
you find anyone who is a super successful leader in any industry and they will tell you that they just built on the foundations of the successful people that came before them.
weapon technology HAS advanced and the parts are just a reflection of that advancement.
Good luck.
GermanSynergy
10-31-10, 11:52
Spikes? Mil Spec? Really?
Do they follow the TDP?
OP, You may wish to consider the following, if you are serious about employing an AR type weapon in a HD situation.
-Buy from a reputable manufacturer. Don't attempt a build that you will potentially stake your life on if you don't have a 100% grasp of how to do it correctly. DD, BCM, Colt, Noveske, LMT all make fine weapons that will serve you well.
-TRAIN with said platform with some reputable trainers and Industry Professionals.
-Did I mention training?
I'm going to second a good red dot here as well. Don't forget defense rounds. You might consider a spikes upper and lower for around 760. Very reliable and mil spec.
For your first AR best bet is to buy a complete gun from Daniel Defense or BCM.
Also I'd forget the dissipator idea and just go with a midlength gas system for either 14.5 or 16 inch barrel.
rattlesnake
10-31-10, 12:28
I personally use a bcm lightweight 14.5 car for home defense with a full pmag, next to a rem 870 full of 00 buck (i live in a thick wall adobe, so no worry of over pen). Next to those sits my wife's moss 500 20 guage youth model full of #2. No flashlights or optics. I have always grabbed the 870 when I have heard a strange noise.
...for Home defense duty, I've finally settled for a Dissipator style AR. I understand that many people are not fond of this type of AR. To me this type of weapon makes a lot of sense. I would like to get it with the A2 upper and would like to keep it as simple as possible for reliability issues. No tacticool stuff, no electronic sights...
Some like the look some don't, that's not the main issue.
1 Lack of quality options in that configuration.
2 The increased sight radius doesn't do much at HD range. (means even less when you figure out you should have an RDS)
Do yourself a favor and get a flat top. There are good rear irons that you can use on a flat top until you figure out you should have an RDS...
It's only dark for about half the day, during a lot of that time irons can be very hard or impossible to use.
Some like the look some don't, that's not the main issue.
1 Lack of quality options in that configuration.
2 The increased sight radius doesn't do much at HD range. (means even less when you figure out you should have an RDS)
Do yourself a favor and get a flat top. There are good rear irons that you can use on a flat top until you figure out you should have an RDS...
It's only dark for about half the day, during a lot of that time irons can be very hard or impossible to use.
+100000000
Double T,
Is this your first/only AR? If so I would suggest a flat top too. As Todd said it gives you more options. I too want a rifle with an A1 or A2 upper. For me it will be more if a nostalgia thing and a range toy.
Flat Top- Good
You are on the right track keeping your rifle as simple as possible as it will save you money & grief. The money you save will let you shoot your rifle more and with experience, you will be able to better decide which "tacticool" additions will be useful. You won't be throwing away money on stuff you don't like or find useless
A longer sight radius is more precise than a shorter one. The advantage to a short sight radius is that it's quicker to align and has less "wobble". Of course, the RDS is quicker still should exhibit even less wobble.
Buy a good, basic carbine and shoot it as much as possible. The skills of a rifleman are life-long and a good coach is well worth the cost
Wow! Lots of info to process. Yes this will be my first AR (Army brat in Central America, got to shoot M16s). My only and primary weapon for home defensive purposes. Everybody has a "better" HD weapon but I'd like to stick to the AR platform. I'm warming up to the red dot. I could go for the flattop.
Honestly I kinda like the setup by Rock River Pro Government. Now you guys have me all mixed up, again.:confused:
I was decided for the Dissy. It seems here I go again. Mid lenght, CAR....
*BTW, please go easy on me. What's an RDS?
Raven_Thunder
10-31-10, 19:39
I'll throw in my 2 cents and say that a midlength gas system would be best. I like the Dissapator concept myself, just waiting for someone like BCM to jump on it before I buy one. And I will also raise one on the light being good enough without tritiums. I can see my sighting system just fine with the white light only but at the same time I see the point of having a backup if the light goes out during the incident.
I may be going to extremes but I'd also recommend writing up a checklist for monthly checks. For example my list includes checking the batteries in the light, visually check the ammo, inspect the B.A.D, ect. Keeping a log book is a good idea too.
P.S.: RDS = Red Dot Sight
Just dawned on me Red Dot Sight! :)
Beat me to it Raven, thanks!!
Unless you CAN'T see the front sight post due to a vision issue. A RDS is not really needed. Not even in low light. A good weapon mounted light is infinitely more valuable than an RDS.
Unless you CAN'T see the front sight post due to a vision issue. A RDS is not really needed. Not even in low light. A good weapon mounted light is infinitely more valuable than an RDS.
Mark... Using just irons and a light for HD with an AR, how would you recommend sighting in the irons? I quickly found with Troy BattleSights that I had to lower the front post as far as it would go to be accurate at HD distances, which makes them probably useless outdoors. Clearly I need more knowledge and training on use of irons at HD distances.
Mark... Using just irons and a light for HD with an AR, how would you recommend sighting in the irons? I quickly found with Troy BattleSights that I had to lower the front post as far as it would go to be accurate at HD distances, which makes them probably useless outdoors. Clearly I need more knowledge and training on use of irons at HD distances.
I always zero my irons and RDS at 50yds. No need to lower your fron sight for HD distances, you just need to understand your "height over bore" offset. At closer distances you simply aim a little higher to compensate for the height your sights are above your bore line.
I'm using a Barnes Precision Lower for a current DD Lighweight Middy build and they are really nice lowers!
Have you looked at Paul Howe's CSAT Rear sight?
http://www.xssights.com/store/CSAT.html
The other option is to learn to adjust your point if aim for the shift in your point of impact when you're up close.
lethal dose
10-31-10, 21:03
Unless you CAN'T see the front sight post due to a vision issue. A RDS is not really needed. Not even in low light. A good weapon mounted light is infinitely more valuable than an RDS.
this is VERY true and that is why i said you should look to a quality white light, first and foremost. get a bcm midlength upper for $389. add a bcm bcg, a charging handle, a moe middy hg, and a surefire x300 and you have a quality hd ar. i would also suggest that you do get a rds, but not before a quality white light. an aimpoint micro h1 or comp c3 are the value standard in quality red dots.
Excellent. Thanks for the comments and the link to the CSAT rear sight... I like that I can install it in my Troy folding Battlesight. Nice! In the meantime I'll just work on my hold over skills.
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