View Full Version : Sight question, 10-8 rear-what front?
I have a 10-8 rear sight :
02-140 - .325" height
.140 wide notch
What front sight or what dimensions should I look for? Will the front sight on my Springfield MC Operator work?
Any help would be appreciated.
With my TRP I use a 10-8 rear and stock front. If your pistol shot point of aim-point of impact at a distance you were satisfied with you should be fine.
With my TRP I use a 10-8 rear and stock front. If your pistol shot point of aim-point of impact at a distance you were satisfied with you should be fine.
Thanks, that was what I was hoping.
ColdDeadHands
10-31-10, 00:15
The rear sights are available in heights to match your existing rear sight height, and will therefore be directly compatible with your existing front sight. You will want to measure your existing rear sight before ordering.
http://www.10-8performance.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=24_29&products_id=30
I looked at that already, and I already own the sights. So I have to do the more complicated route. Thanks for the link though.
On the 10-8 web page, it does not say their front sights match this or that rear. It says, "Have a gunsmith do it". I am having Gunsmith Nelson Ford do it, but I prefer to make it easier rather than harder on him. And I want the best result.
ColdDeadHands
10-31-10, 03:25
As long as the rear sight is the same height as the 10-8 rear the POI stays the same. No need to replace the front sight but if you do please let me know as I might be interested in buying it from you if it has the white ring around the tritium.
The easiest thing to do that would probably save you the most grief if you are planing on using the existing front sight on your MC Operator would be to get the extra tall .375 10-8 rear sight. This will regulate perfectly with the stock front sight.
I have been down the same road with the 10-8 rear sight. I first ordered the standard height rear sight for my Springfield Loaded and it didn't regulate at all. I tried 3 different front sights before finding the shortest (.160 ) height front sight from Novak that would work. Then I saw that Dave Berryhill had some 10-8 sights with a traditional square notch in them but only regular height. I called and spoke with Dave ( great guy by the way ) and his recomendation was that if I was running a Springfield to go with the extra tall rear sight as it would make life a lot easier. Of course being stupid enough not to take his advice I ordered the sight and continued to struggle with the correct sight set-up until I ordered the .375 height rear and went back to the stock front sight height which worked exactly as Hilton said it would on his website and Dave confirmed.
So when I received my MC Operator I ordered a .375 height 10-8 rear and walla, FM happened. I now run a .375 height 10-8 rear on my Springfield Loaded, I have a bag with 4 used 10-8 rear sights sitting on my bench and have sold my MC Operator.
In my opinion, the 10-8 rear is a great sight for many different reasons. I shot two USPSA Single Stack Nationals with them, used them exclusively for about 3 years both on and off duty and it is the rear sight that I currently use on my off duty gun ( a Glock 19 which is a whole other story unto itself.)
Hopefully my experience will save you some time and money and of course only applies to the Springfield 1911 models with Novak sight cut and 10-8 rears.
I hope you get the rear sight working how you want it to. Keep us updated on the solution that you and your gunsmith reach and how it turns out for you.
Good luck!
Dave Berryhill
10-31-10, 10:52
ColdDeadHands is correct. You need to look at the POI of your pistol.
In your case, the math is simple. Your pistol already has a Novak rear sight that is .325 high so where is the POI? If it shoots to your point of am then you can replace the Novak rear sight with a similar (10-8) rear sight that is .325 high and use the existing front sight (or replace the front with another sight that is the same height). There is a formula that you can use to calculate the correction needed.
If your point of impact is different than your point of aim then you'll need to adjust it with a rear and/or front sight having a different height.
I wasn't making a blanket statement about all Springfield Armory pistols. Some Springfield Armory 1911s come from the factory shooting low but if yours shoots to your point of aim and you install a rear sight that is .050 taller, such as the .375 high 10-8 sight, then you'll need to raise the front sight by about .050 to maintain your POI. Let's say your current front sight is .180 tall. You'd need to replace it with a front sight that is .230 high, which is a little tall for a practical pistol and not really necessary unless you need to raise the sights above a suppressor.
The reason that Hilton and others don't recommend a specific front sight height is because of the pistols that have stock sights (without a Novak rear sight). In that case it's difficult to estimate the correct sight height due to all the variables involved.
As long as the rear sight is the same height as the 10-8 rear the POI stays the same. No need to replace the front sight but if you do please let me know as I might be interested in buying it from you if it has the white ring around the tritium.
I have an old set up sights from my TRP you can have. Just PM me your address and I will drop them in the mail. I am tripping over old sights just going to waist. The best front sights that have the bold white ring are the ones that come from Ed Brown. I really like Ed's BOLD white lines. But I do have some old Springfield's that have good night sights, but weak white lines. Just PM me.
CDH, DB and Shawn C, thanks for the good info. From what I understand, my 10-8 is .325 and my current Springfield is .325 so it should work just fine by simply replacing my rear. POI is fine with current sights. Even though I am not crazy about that front sight, it will work.
So Dave, if I want to replace, I just order a front sight that is .325?
So the simple rule is: Front sight height should equal rear sight height correct? Pretty basic but you never freaking know the rules till you know the rules.
Dave Berryhill
10-31-10, 13:25
So Dave, if I want to replace, I just order a front sight that is .325?
So the simple rule is: Front sight height should equal rear sight height correct? Pretty basic but you never freaking know the rules till you know the rules.
Sorry but no gold star for you. ;) The simple rule is to keep the front and rear sight heights the same if you don't want to change the POI.
Corollary #1 is to keep the difference in heights the same when measured from the same reference plane if you don't want to change the POI. One example would be the .375 tall 10-8 rear sight example I used earlier. Since you are not altering the dovetails, if you raise the rear sight by .050 then you would need to raise the front by the same amount if you don't want to change the POI.
As another example, lets say you have a Colt or Springfield Armory pistol with standard GI sights. You can measure the height of the front and rear sights from the same plane (this can be the top of the slide, the bottom of the slide, the axis of the bore, etc). We need to use a reference plane that will not change when we machine the slide.
Lets say the difference between those heights is .060. In other words, the rear sight is .060 taller than the front sight when measured from the same plane. If we mill the slide for front and rear dovetail sights, the difference between the new front and rear sight heights also needs to be .060 when measured from the same plane as before.
Now you can mill a Novak rear sight cut, install the rear sight and measure it from our reference plane. Since the front sight needs to be .060 shorter than the rear sight, we can calculate the height of the front sight needed.
In reality, there may be a slight change in POI after installing the new sights no matter how carefully you measure. It's usually not significant and won't make a difference for a self defense pistol. Shooting an inch high or low at 25 yards for a center mass shot really doesn't matter but this is why some pistolsmiths will install a blank front sight, leave is slightly tall, test fire the pistol, calculate the amount of correction needed and then shorten the front sight by the required amount.
Anyone try putting an XS standard dot on the front with a 10-8 at the rear? I'm considering it.
Guessing it makes a difference, I'm considering using it on a Springfield Operator.
Anyone try this combo out? Thoughts?
Thanks,
Drew
ColdDeadHands
10-31-10, 19:27
Our member Chayse has that setup on his Operator. Post 2046 in the 1911 Handgun Picture thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=791532&postcount=2046). Looks like a nice setup, I wouldn't mind trying that myself.
Dave Berryhill
10-31-10, 21:26
Anyone try putting an XS standard dot on the front with a 10-8 at the rear? I'm considering it.
Guessing it makes a difference, I'm considering using it on a Springfield Operator.
Anyone try this combo out? Thoughts?
Thanks,
Drew
I've done a couple. Some guys really like them and I think using the 10-8 rear sight is a big improvement over the express rear sight that XS uses - it's just as fast but more accurate.
I'd like it a lot better if the XS front sight was a square post with the big dot on it instead of having rounded corners. When I want to shoot accurately, I have a hard time aligning the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight because of this.
Dave,
I've heard the same thing about people wishing the front sight was squared. I've shot w/ Big Dots on my Glocks for a few years. I'm hoping I can split the difference.
Glad to know others are running that setup.
Drew
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