View Full Version : Apex Tactical Specialties R.A.M. Press Release $22.95
G34Shooter
10-31-10, 14:19
Los Osos, CA
Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc. (ATS) announces the release of the newest addition to its growing line of high quality drop-in parts for the Smith & Wesson M&P pistol line; the Reset Assist Mechanism (RAM). The RAM, which can be easily installed without the need for special tools, takes the M&P to new levels of shootability by producing a positive tactile sense of trigger reset that alerts the shooter that the trigger is past the reset point and ready to fire again.
"Improving the reset feel of the M&P trigger has been a major goal for us at Apex. The new Reset Assist Mechanism we developed gives shooters that positive, tactile feedback they look for in a trigger. This is particularly important to tactical and competition shooters who rely on a positive reset feel to help guide their trigger manipulation, especially during rapid fire situations," said Randy Lee, president of Apex Tactical Specialties and designer of the RAM.
Additionally, the patent pending design of the RAM functions as a fail-safe device in the event of a Trigger Return Spring breakage. The RAM maintains trigger bar alignment under the Sear, allowing the shooter to manually reset the trigger between shots in the event of an emergency.
"Because so many of our customers are in law enforcement, where the M&P pistol is in wide and growing use as a standard issue duty sidearm, when presented with the opportunity to engineer the RAM to provide a fail-safe in the event of return spring breakage, we jumped on it. Increasing the reliability of an already reliable pistol is a win-win no matter who you are," explained Lee.
Made in the USA from the best materials and to Apex's exacting standards, the RAM is available for Smith & Wesson M&P pistols that do not include a thumb safety and are chambered in 9mm, .40S&W or .357SIG. Models for thumb safety equipped pistols and the .45ACP models are in development.
For more information on the Reset Assist Mechanism, dealer programs or the full line of Apex parts and services, visit www.apextactical.com or call 805-528-5250.
http://i53.tinypic.com/14iftx4.jpg
Great news, when can we expect to see it in the Apex store?
Great news, when can we expect to see it in the Apex store?
You should see them on our online store in a few hours. We are packaging them up now...
-Randy
Lisa couldn't stand it any longer! She is putting the RAM up on our store as I type this...
Ha! Thanks Randy. I assume there will be an associated installation video and/or instructions, or will this require a smith?
I just tried to order one...Randy..something's up with your site..Kept getting "invalid credit card" message.. I know there's nothing wrong at my end..:sad:
UPDATE: I called Apex and left a message concerning their website, They are aware of the problem, Lisa called me back,and I placed my order, So, it should be here later this week..Thank you Lisa!! and Thank You Apex!:D
Ha! Thanks Randy. I assume there will be an associated installation video and/or instructions, or will this require a smith?
According to Apex's site, this is a drop in part..
I just tried to order one...Randy..something's up with your site..Kept getting "invalid credit card" message.. I know there's nothing wrong at my end..:sad:
I gots the same message.
Same message.
Randy, how far out is the thumb safety version?
Hi all,
The cc processing gateway was having problems. We fixed the communications issue so you should be able to order now.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
-Randy
crazymoose
10-31-10, 20:04
Very happy to see this item come to the market. A vastly superior reset is one of the trump cards Glock has held over the M&P.
Randy, how far out is the thumb safety version?
I'm eagerly awaiting this too...
Is this the same as the safety plunger? Sure looks like it and if so whats the difference between this and what you already sell? I have already installed the full kit on my M&P 357!
GermanSynergy
10-31-10, 21:23
Thanks Randy! Ordering 3 right now....
Is this the same as the safety plunger? Sure looks like it and if so whats the difference between this and what you already sell? I have already installed the full kit on my M&P 357!
I don't think so,While the installation vids haven't been put up yet, I'm thinking this fits in the lower hole in the sear housing, The round head I think will fit in the hole where the frame plug for the lock now is,and I think will run through the sear housing and the flat? part on the other end will grab and put tension on the trigger bar,via the included spring..
I don't think so,While the installation vids haven't been put up yet, I'm thinking this fits in the lower hole in the sear housing, The round head I think will fit in the hole where the frame plug for the lock now is,and I think will run through the sear housing and the flat? part on the other end will grab and put tension on the trigger bar,via the included spring..
Hi Ralph,
You are correct. The install video is up now.
The thumb safety version is about three months out. I am currently in the process of applying for another patent on a non M&P related product. Oh, and the striker, new sear, new trigger.... I need more time in the day...
-Randy
vicious_cb
10-31-10, 22:00
Randy, where does this part drop in?
Thanks for the update on the thumb safety version Randy. I got ahead of myself a minute ago. I started to order one tonight and went back and reread the description and realized this is for the non-safety models. Looking forward to hearing field reports of the RAM.
-Jax
Hi Ralph,
You are correct. The install video is up now.
The thumb safety version is about three months out. I am currently in the process of applying for another patent on a non M&P related product. Oh, and the striker, new sear, new trigger.... I need more time in the day...
-Randy
Randy;
Where is the installation video located at? I checked youtube under "Apex Tactical" and nothing was up yet, maybe youtube has'nt gotten around to it yet?
Randy, where does this part drop in?
The RAM is inserted into the hole that would be occupied by the ILS. The hole runs thru the sear housing block, and the RAM installs from the left side.
-Randy
Randy;
Where is the installation video located at? I checked youtube under "Apex Tactical" and nothing was up yet, maybe youtube has'nt gotten around to it yet?
Check our blog. Scott uploaded it a couple of hours ago. It may not show up on YouTube yet, but it should be accessible thru our website and Facebook.
-Randy
P.s. please ignore my cell phone going off... I forgot to silence it while we were filming. My bad.
SWATcop556
11-01-10, 02:59
Good to hear. I'll want to try one of these out soon.
Randy, sent you a PM.
Check our blog. Scott uploaded it a couple of hours ago. It may not show up on YouTube yet, but it should be accessible thru our website and Facebook.
-Randy
Here's the direct link to the video on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150108114733084&ref=mf
Interesting to hear. I guess I know what the next upgrade to my M&Ps will be.
jonconsiglio
11-01-10, 11:24
I understand this is not for the models with the thumb safety, but will it work on models with the entire thumb safety unit removed? I've plugged all my thumb safety holes.
Mine are non ILS, but since the thumb safeties are removed, there is an open space in my sear housing block.
Thanks,
Jonathan
Got my RAM today and just put it in the gun.
One word.
FANTASTIC!!!!!
For those of you that have shot Glock's, the trigger reset is similar, but not exactly the same. Meaning that the Glock reset (to me) is kind of long and spongy. The RAM is MUCH more defined and quick in its reset. Very similar to say the sear engagment in a two stage AR trigger. Distinct and short.
Great job Randy and crew. This is a MUST HAVE ITEM for the M&P.
Edited to add, we will be offering this option in new M&P purchased from us.
C4
jonconsiglio
11-01-10, 13:41
I'm really looking forward to getting a couple of these. Though the DCAEK makes quite a difference in the overall feel and bending the trigger bar helps slightly, I've noticed that each M&P seems to be different, even with the kits installed. I don't mind that much, but I've been waiting for something like this for a while.
I hope I can get it to work with mine. If not, just another few month wait. I've been waiting on this since the first time I saw it mentioned by Randy in a thread a few months ago. Now, we just need that new trigger!
Grant,
I'll be sure to pick one up from you sat!
RogerinTPA
11-01-10, 15:22
This is great news! I'll be ordering a couple soon.:cool:
Got my RAM today and just put it in the gun.
One word.
FANTASTIC!!!!!
For those of you that have shot Glock's, the trigger reset is similar, but not exactly the same. Meaning that the Glock reset (to me) is kind of long and spongy. The RAM is MUCH more defined and quick in its reset. Very similar to say the sear engagment in a two stage AR trigger. Distinct and short.
Great job Randy and crew. This is a MUST HAVE ITEM for the M&P.
Edited to add, we will be offering this option in new M&P purchased from us.
C4
Grant, I have an M&P with a Burwell trigger job that has a fairly distinct reset.
Do you believe that this part would make it even more so?
G34Shooter
11-01-10, 18:01
And mine is going in tonight :laugh:
m98evolution
11-01-10, 19:23
Randy, thanks for yet another contribution to improving the M&P.
Btw, do you have an ETA on a thumb safety compatible RAM?
Randy, thanks for yet another contribution to improving the M&P.
Btw, do you have an ETA on a thumb safety compatible RAM?
We don't have an ETA as of yet. I am currently working on a couple of other projects unrelated to the M&P at the moment. I am working with Bruce Gray on a drop in trigger kit for the Sig P series pistols that will blow the doors off of anything currently available. Bruce is a dear friend and mentor of mine, so this project has special meaning to me.
Scott and I are working on the thumb safety and 45 versions , but I don't expect to have proven parts for at least 3 months.
Oh, and Scott is working on an equivalent kit for the HK pistols as well. :-)
-Randy
Grant, I have an M&P with a Burwell trigger job that has a fairly distinct reset.
Do you believe that this part would make it even more so?
I do not have a lot of experience with his trigger jobs, but my guess is yes.
C4
Robb Jensen
11-01-10, 21:18
Sounds like something I may pick up for my 5" M&P Pro .40 it has a softer reset than my 5" M&P Pro 9.
I didn't use a Mass. trigger spring in the .40 since in has a stiffer/larger Mass. type sear spring and plunger causing the trigger pull to be a bit heavier. I thought the Mass. spring would make the trigger too heavy in the .40
GermanSynergy
11-01-10, 21:38
I should have my 3 this week, and will report back on same when I hit the NRA Range Sat night. :D
G34Shooter
11-02-10, 07:09
A close up video of the RAM is here with a demonstration of the before and after reset:
http://thepackingrat.net/2010/11/02/apex-tactical-specialties-ram-2/
Robb Jensen
11-02-10, 09:14
I just ordered one for each of my 5" M&P Pros.
Grant,
I'll be sure to pick one up from you sat!
They are now in stock and are an option with M&P pistols!
C4
I installed mine this afternoon..I hate to say this, but I'm a little dissapointed... Better? yes, While I can feel the reset better, it's not as crisp or as snappy as I was hoping for.. So, far I've only dry fired it, hopefully tommorrow I'll get to run some rounds off and see what's it feels like when one actually fires it...
Very interested in getting more feedback on the RAM from other shooters. As different as the triggers are from one M&P to the next so might the opinions be on one to the next with how much of a difference Apex's new add on makes. Anxiously awaiting the thumb safety version Randy!
Ralph,
How is your M&P set up? Do you have any Apex parts in it now? Is it a standard or Pro model?
-Jax
Very interested in getting more feedback on the RAM from other shooters. As different as the triggers are from one M&P to the next so might the opinions be on one to the next with how much of a difference Apex's new add on makes. Anxiously awaiting the thumb safety version Randy!
Ralph,
How is your M&P set up? Do you have any Apex parts in it now? Is it a standard or Pro model?
-Jax
Yes, it has a Apex DCAEK in it now,Standard FS 9.. I'm figuring it probably is some sort of tolerance stack up,or lack of. While the reset is much easier to find, it just dosen't have a real hard "snap" I was hoping for.. As I said, I'm hoping to test drive it with some rounds tommorrow, So far, all I've done is dry-fire.. once I run some rounds through it, I figure I'll know real fast is the RAM is worth it or not..
I gotcha. Keep us posted.
Yes, it has a Apex DCAEK in it now,Standard FS 9.. I'm figuring it probably is some sort of tolerance stack up,or lack of. While the reset is easier to find, it just dosen't have a real hard "snap" I was hoping for.. As I said, I'm hoping to test drive it with rounds tommorrow..That'll tell the real story..
I posted a bit on the MP-pistol forums but ill rehash my findings here.
I got my RAM today and installed it into my 5 inch pro as well as returned an apex sear to this particular sear housing since i figured i might as well keep it all in the family.
I notice absolutely no difference in trigger feel whatsoever however, the sound is seriously pronounced upon reset. As i mentioned on the other forum im not sure im completely satisfied having spent about 24 dollars to get this item here. All it seems to accomplish for me is to give me a sound to listen for upon trigger reset which is a self defeating proposition right there...guns are loud, the reset...not so much.
I was hoping for a better tactile sensation upon reset. Something i would be able to feel at speed but given the fact that i cannot even feel it during dry fire i highly doubt this setup will somehow come into its own during live fire.
Still, i will not say the product is worthless until ive put rounds down range but my dry firing experience tonight, about 250 dry fires is leaving me a little puzzled.
Im on the fence about whether or not i really and truly care about trigger reset as i never feel it when shooting at speed, whether it is a 6 pound glock trigger or a feather light 1911.
If you have money floating around collecting dust in your pocket then this item is great as it DOES give you something to listen for during dry fire practice but i dont really see a functional aspect gained from installation during live fire. Yes, this a bit premature since i havent live fired it yet but i hope to accomplish that this weekend.
Im thinking that the RAM might NEED to be coupled with a stronger sear spring or trigger return spring in order to get some feel out of it but in a stock gun with the Apex sear alone...i feel like i wasted 24 dollars.
I really hate posting feedback like this since i really happen to like Randy and the rest of the Apex crew and i wish them all the success and millions of dollars in the world but if we dont question, or speak truthfully we cant hope to improve.
Im also the only guy on the planet that doesnt like the battle comp so take what i said with a grain of salt.
cool
sounds like a great part. that's really my only complaint with the M&P series guns. just gotta talk my M&P shooting buddy into buying one so i can try it :D
I posted a bit on the MP-pistol forums but ill rehash my findings here.
I got my RAM today and installed it into my 5 inch pro as well as returned an apex sear to this particular sear housing since i figured i might as well keep it all in the family.
I notice absolutely no difference in trigger feel whatsoever however, the sound is seriously pronounced upon reset. As i mentioned on the other forum im not sure im completely satisfied having spent about 24 dollars to get this item here. All it seems to accomplish for me is to give me a sound to listen for upon trigger reset which is a self defeating proposition right there...guns are loud, the reset...not so much.
I was hoping for a better tactile sensation upon reset. Something i would be able to feel at speed but given the fact that i cannot even feel it during dry fire i highly doubt this setup will somehow come into its own during live fire.
Still, i will not say the product is worthless until ive put rounds down range but my dry firing experience tonight, about 250 dry fires is leaving me a little puzzled.
Im on the fence about whether or not i really and truly care about trigger reset as i never feel it when shooting at speed, whether it is a 6 pound glock trigger or a feather light 1911.
If you have money floating around collecting dust in your pocket then this item is great as it DOES give you something to listen for during dry fire practice but i dont really see a functional aspect gained from installation during live fire. Yes, this a bit premature since i havent live fired it yet but i hope to accomplish that this weekend.
Im thinking that the RAM might NEED to be coupled with a stronger sear spring or trigger return spring in order to get some feel out of it but in a stock gun with the Apex sear alone...i feel like i wasted 24 dollars.
I really hate posting feedback like this since i really happen to like Randy and the rest of the Apex crew and i wish them all the success and millions of dollars in the world but if we dont question, or speak truthfully we cant hope to improve.
Im also the only guy on the planet that doesnt like the battle comp so take what i said with a grain of salt.
Hi Magsz,
Thanks for your honest input! I see your post as constructive, not negative in the least. My ultimate goal is to make parts that perform as expected. If something in the design needs improving, I will do everything in my power to make it a better product.
I would agree with you that if you run any gun at speed, say below .25 second splits, you will not feel trigger reset because your finger is already forward of the reset point as the slide is returning to battery. If you shoot all your shots at speed, the RAM is unnecessary. For me, where the RAM is of value is when I need to slow down my cadence, or for discreet precision shots. In the pistols I have installed and test fired, I can definitely feel the reset point in live fire. And that is my hope when you shoot your pistol.
That being said, the part may not do a thing for you at your skill level. Lisa Scott and I stand behind our products, and we would be foolish to think everyone has to love our parts. If after live fire the RAM doesn't perform as expected or doesn't suit your needs, return it and we will gladly refund your money. It is important to all of us that our business practices and customer support match or exceed the quality of our parts.
-Randy
G34Shooter
11-05-10, 07:36
Since I do have the DCAEK with the stronger return spring, I can tell an immediate difference. IMO, the DCAEK with the trigger bar properly bent in already increases the reset tremendously while the RAM adds a little more to it.
Since I do have the DCAEK with the stronger return spring, I can tell an immediate difference. IMO, the DCAEK with the trigger bar properly bent in already increases the reset tremendously while the RAM adds a little more to it.
And there is the key..I stayed up way late last night fiddling around with this thing..I ended up bending the trigger bar here and there and finally got a reset that was "aceptable" still not as positive or strong as I'd like (glock like) But, a lightyear ahead of what I had. The problem here as I see it, is the trigger bar itself, It is consistently inconsistent..The amount of reset you may or may not get depends on how it's bent from the factory. In my case the "loop" was bent at such a angle that it was barely engaging the sear,it was just riding on the edge of the sear. When I straightened that out, The pistol would not reset, A little more tweaking and I got that fixed, and it now seems just fine, after a bunch more dry-firing, I can't get it to NOT reset. I'm convinced the trigger bar,and how well it is, or is'nt bent from the factory, is one of the factors.
I installed mine this afternoon..I hate to say this, but I'm a little dissapointed... Better? yes, While I can feel the reset better, it's not as crisp or as snappy as I was hoping for.. So, far I've only dry fired it, hopefully tommorrow I'll get to run some rounds off and see what's it feels like when one actually fires it...
Some folks running the APEX DCAEK have a pretty good reset. Some do not. So if you are use too your gun having a good reset, the RAM might not be a huge increase.
For me, it was.
C4
Hi Magsz,
Thanks for your honest input! I see your post as constructive, not negative in the least. My ultimate goal is to make parts that perform as expected. If something in the design needs improving, I will do everything in my power to make it a better product.
I would agree with you that if you run any gun at speed, say below .25 second splits, you will not feel trigger reset because your finger is already forward of the reset point as the slide is returning to battery. If you shoot all your shots at speed, the RAM is unnecessary. For me, where the RAM is of value is when I need to slow down my cadence, or for discreet precision shots. In the pistols I have installed and test fired, I can definitely feel the reset point in live fire. And that is my hope when you shoot your pistol.
That being said, the part may not do a thing for you at your skill level. Lisa Scott and I stand behind our products, and we would be foolish to think everyone has to love our parts. If after live fire the RAM doesn't perform as expected or doesn't suit your needs, return it and we will gladly refund your money. It is important to all of us that our business practices and customer support match or exceed the quality of our parts.
-Randy
Perfectly said Randy.
When I ran my M&P (with RAM installed) at speed, I could not pick up the reset. Why? because my finger already knew where the reset is on my gun from THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS of practice.
When we teach basic pistol, we try and get the students to find the reset point on their guns and only go to that point consistently. With the M&P, it is very hard for most new shooters to find it. This is where the RAM will come in IMHO. It will allow shooters to find the reset point during slow fire and fine tune their trigger finger reset.
C4
Some folks running the APEX DCAEK have a pretty good reset. Some do not. So if you are use too your gun having a good reset, the RAM might not be a huge increase.
For me, it was.
C4
Well, That's the problem..My pistol never had a good reset in the first place, with or without the DCAEK installed, Was there an improvement? yes, But the biggest improvement came after I did some tweaking on the trigger bar,Which IMO, was poorly made/bent..Still, All I've done up to this point is dry-fire. This afternoon it looks like I'll be able to pop some rounds off and see what it feels like during live fire.
Well, That's the problem..My pistol never had a good reset in the first place, with or without the DCAEK installed, Was there an improvement? yes, But the biggest improvement came after I did some tweaking on the trigger bar,Which IMO, was poorly made/bent..Still, All I've done up to this point is dry-fire. This afternoon it looks like I'll be able to pop some rounds off and see what it feels like during live fire.
Roger that. The trigger bar does play a big role in this.
S&W has a newer trigger bar coming out and I hope to have some soon. Might want to think about installing it.
C4
Roger that. The trigger bar does play a big role in this.
S&W has a newer trigger bar coming out and I hope to have some soon. Might want to think about installing it.
C4
Let me know when you get them in, If these are more consistently bent, and are an improvement over the old ones, I'm interested, Quick question, How improved are the new trigger bars,And exactly what do they do better than the old ones?
Let me know when you get them in, If these are more consistently bent, and are an improvement over the old ones, I'm interested, Quick question, How improved are the new trigger bars,And exactly what do they do better than the old ones?
The new trigger bars are meant to better help with sear engagement.
C4
The new trigger bars are meant to better help with sear engagement.
C4
I may have to hit you or S&W up for one on my newer 9c; it occasionally has a failure to engage the sear on reset.
As for the RAM, I've added it to the wish list for all three of my M&P's.
I just got back from the range..shot 150 rnds of 9mm (my loads,) First, there were NO problems of any kind. That said, the reset was easier to find, I can say accuracy was slightly better,with slow fire, The reset itself was'nt really noticable unless you were looking for it. Still, I'd like a stronger, more postitve reset, Frankly, I don't think that's going to happen with the M&P. The RAM is a improvement, how much so depends alot on your trigger bar, Some people may get a noticable gain, others not so much, I'm somewhere in between, The reset on my pistol IS improved, But not quite as much as I'd like. I'd say it's kind of a dice throw, you may get a huge improvement, and then again you may not..The only way to find out is to try one...I'll probably leave mine in, as it does have another benefit, as it will keep the pistol working if the trigger return spring should break..As to it's reset benefits, I'm still on the fence about that..Only time, and more rounds down range, will tell.
I may have to hit you or S&W up for one on my newer 9c; it occasionally has a failure to engage the sear on reset.
As for the RAM, I've added it to the wish list for all three of my M&P's.
If you have a dead trigger and are running the Apex Tactical SEAR, contact Randy about sending him your sear housing for some work.
That would be the best thing to do.
C4
Sparks2112
11-06-10, 01:51
As others have said I'm eagerly awaiting the thumb safety model. It's funny how many things I'm waiting on for the MnP at this point. Barsto barell, accuracy parts from apex, more front sight width/height combos. Ah well :-)
GermanSynergy
11-06-10, 03:54
I just installed 3 of them in my 9mm M&P's last night. Makes a huge difference, and gives it a much more positive reset.
Robb Jensen
11-06-10, 10:22
I installed the RAM yesterday on both my M&P Pros and it makes for a very nice reset. I'll be testing both today and shooting the .40 in a USPSA match tomorrow.
If you have a dead trigger and are running the Apex Tactical SEAR, contact Randy about sending him your sear housing for some work.
That would be the best thing to do.
C4
Actually, the 9c in question is box stock, as are all of my M&P's. I've never had a failure to reset with it during live fire, only dry fire. I think what's happening is I'm just not allowing the trigger to go forward far enough to truly reset; when it happens, it feels like the trigger bar is slipping off the edge of the sear's engagement face. I probably just need to call S&W about it.
G34Shooter
11-06-10, 22:28
My second day and a couple hundred rounds later and I'll say that it does help while prepping the trigger after reset but is not a huge difference over the good reset I already had with my Apex installed DCAEK. Would I put one in a M&Pc that I'm buying? Absolutely!
I also installed the RAM in both my M&P FS 9's. It was easy to do and took about 15 minutes. In my pistols it made the reset a little stronger and much more audible. Both my pistols came with a Mass trigger bar and I have also installed the Apex Tactical DCAEK and their extreme duty extractors in them with great results and no issues. The triggers are both pretty darn good right now but I will probably tweak them a little more when the new M&P trigger bars from S&W or Apex become available. I am also looking forward to getting some Apex locking blocks and Barsto barrels this next year.
decodeddiesel
11-07-10, 19:16
Looking forward to this being offered for thumb safety equipped M&Ps
just installed this tonight in my FS 9 "rebate" gun (bought on last day to qualify for $50 rebate :D).
I wasn't expecting Glock like snap but even so, at first I was a little underwhelmed. but then, after dry firing quite a bit, I realized just how easy it was to use the reset, which I had not been able to do before with this pistol.
Previously, I often had trouble not releasing the trigger far enough when trying to pick up speed but this never happened with the RAM installed. the more I snapped this trigger and let off to reset, the easier it became and the more I came to appreciate it. (for the record, I DO shoot reset with my SIGs and 1911s so it's not like I don't understand how to do it)
I haven't shot this with live ammo but I'll give it a go tomorrow and report back. I'm thinking it's a winner and will probably order another for my 9MM PRO.
I'm really grateful to Randy and Apex that they've taken the M&P pistols and addressed their shortcomings. (two thumbs up smilie)
My thoughts are in line with Magsz. I received the RAM last Thursday and after installing it I didn't notice anything improved besides an audible click. I'll be putting ~500 rounds through the M&P this Saturday and report back with any changes in opinion.
G34Shooter
11-10-10, 10:15
My thoughts are in line with Magsz. I received the RAM last Thursday and after installing it I didn't notice anything improved besides an audible click. I'll be putting ~500 rounds through the M&P this Saturday and report back with any changes in opinion.
How's your reset before the RAM?
Weak but I don't shoot to reset when shooting fast.
G34Shooter
11-10-10, 10:44
Weak but I don't shoot to reset when shooting fast.
Have someone guide you on tweaking the trigger bar for a sharper reset.
Got a chance to do some live fire this evening.
200 rounds down the pipe.
At speed, no change whatsoever.
Shooting to reset...shrug. When i go SUPER slow, im talking snails ****ing, slow, i can feel it. When im doing a normal slow fire drill concentrating on accuracy with not a care in the world for speed i really cannot feel it.
How many people here are rocking the stiffer trigger return springs and the RAM?
I definitely see the design intent behind the product but i dont think its an absolute cure. I really do believe that as the guns are currently being offered there is very little we can do to actually receive a more forceful reset without increasing trigger spring and thus our trigger pull weight.
Randy. Did you play around with spring weights for the RAM itself? Im assuming thats a dumb question, im just curious if a stiffer spring on the actual ram might help.
Im thinking ill give it a whirl with an MA spring since that is within my means and see how that pans out although im kind of at the point where im tired of monkeying around with M&P triggers.
I know what *I* need to change to get them to work better for me.
G34Shooter
11-13-10, 04:31
Got a chance to do some live fire this evening.
200 rounds down the pipe.
At speed, no change whatsoever.
Shooting to reset...shrug. When i go SUPER slow, im talking snails ****ing, slow, i can feel it. When im doing a normal slow fire drill concentrating on accuracy with not a care in the world for speed i really cannot feel it.
How many people here are rocking the stiffer trigger return springs and the RAM?
I definitely see the design intent behind the product but i dont think its an absolute cure. I really do believe that as the guns are currently being offered there is very little we can do to actually receive a more forceful reset without increasing trigger spring and thus our trigger pull weight.
Randy. Did you play around with spring weights for the RAM itself? Im assuming thats a dumb question, im just curious if a stiffer spring on the actual ram might help.
Im thinking ill give it a whirl with an MA spring since that is within my means and see how that pans out although im kind of at the point where im tired of monkeying around with M&P triggers.
I know what *I* need to change to get them to work better for me.
Like I said, DCAEK here which has the heavier return spring.
ok, just got back from shooting FS9 with no mods other than RAM installed. reference above where I was "aware" that it was different in dryfiring but wasn't sure it would be an improvement to shooting.
I only had time for 50 rounds but I loaded 5 mags with 10 rounds each and shot each mag progressively faster at 7 yds. till I was running about as fast as I normally do. for me, the difference was very definitely an improvement.
I'm sold...
Has anyone installed this in a bone-stock M&P and if so, how are the results?
The reason I ask is I've always loved the M&P but I don't want to dick around with with sears, "tweaking" the trigger bar, polishing, etc.. I'd just like to drop one of these in and be good to go, similar to installing a 4.5# connector and NY1 spring in a Glock.
For shits and giggles i took one of my M&P's and installed my RAM into a stock sear housing, stock trigger return spring and no polished parts.
Unfortunately, the ram just felt weird in this setup.
The problem is that you're asking a straight line (the trigger bar) to drop off of a rounded ovoid shape (the sear cam lobe).
There is just not enough surface area there to give you any distinct feel when the RAM forces the trigger bar shepherds hook off of the sear and back under it.
I tried cutting a sear housing block lock spring (same diameter, or very similar to the spring that randy is using on the RAM) down in size to see if i could increase the tension on the RAM device to try and get a more tactile feel going but i was sorely disappointed. The gun just locked up.
The only improvement an M&P REALLY needs is a rounded/polished striker block. Once you remove the hump from the striker block the "two stage" reset as i like to call it disappears but still remains very indistinct. Audibly, the RAM will help but i still ascribe to the belief that this device is not really all that great at giving the user tactile feedback.
Thanks magz! Unfortunately it sounds like I'll still sit in the back row and wait.
As I noted previously, I like the fact that the M&P is perfectly usable right out of the box, just like a Glock; I also enjoy that I can easily modify M&P's into a modern, modular, reliable, inexpensive alternative to a 1911. I have fired a lot of rounds out of M&P's this past year without ANY problems; the M&P's keep getting better with each minor improvement the factory introduces. I primarily use the M&P w/ambi safety and have found the recent stock triggers acceptable for duty use. Likewise, the Apex parts work very well. In fact, 2011 will be the first time in 25 years that I will not be carrying a 1911--instead I am going to use the M&P45 w/ambi-safety and Apex Duty Kit. Surprisingly, during quals this past month, I shot the M&P45 better than the G19 I have been using for the past 15 years.
Recently I added a RAM to a M&P9FS w/o manual safety--for me this created a perfect duty/carry trigger, resulting in the easiest pistol I have ever shot. Without a doubt I prefer the M&P trigger with Apex Duty Kit and RAM to any Glock trigger I have used.
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