View Full Version : Benefit of Ambi Controls for a Righty?
With prominent companies like KAC having a fully ambidextrous lowers, and many people singing the praises of ambidextrous magazine releases and safeties it got me thinking as to the real world benefits.
It seems like I can flip the safety down with my thumb to the fire position and back to safe my only putting my thumb under it and flicking it up, thought I go have to rotate my and around the grip a bit. I can easily reach the mag. Release with my index finger, and a BAD lever takes care of other things for me to never have to reach to the left side of the gun.
So I pose the question; What are the benefits of these features for a righty? I can only think of benefits existing when shooting weak side. Am I simply not seeing the forest through the trees due to my incredible lack of experience?
When shooting weak side as you mentioned. For me it is easier to flip the selector to fire with my thumb, and back to safe with my index finger.
Fried Chicken Blowout
11-04-10, 09:22
To me it's more that the companies are now just getting it right. All firearms should have been made ambi from the get go. We don't live in a right hand or left hand world. We all use both our hands for all kinds of stuff all day. I find a standard AR painful to use left handed without tricking it out with a left handed mag release, ambi safety and left hand charging handle. Both my ARs are set up the exact same with ambi controls because I normally shoot left handed with long guns and right with pistols due to my very strong eye dominance. And for those that say I shouldn't do that because, "what if you pick up an AR that's not setup the way you train and have to use it..." I just don't every see that happening. But if it did, I would deal with it, just like I would if I picked up someones 1911, since I never shoot a 1911, I would have to deal with it...
But if you're a right handed person and "only" shoot right handed you may not see the need or have a desire for an ambi gun. Unfortunately you may not always have the ability to use your right hand, then what? Have you practiced doing everything with only your left hand? Try dropping a mag, left hand only... It blows. There are many other examples and some may find issues like these petty and tell others to man up... But I just think going ambi is the RIGHT (correct) way to make a gun, you never know how it's going to be really used when it comes down to really using it for real.
I like an ambi safety because it allows me to use my trigger finger to re-engage the safety.
This forces my finger out of the trigger guard (little extra safety step that impacts nothing else) and simply feels less awkward because I don't have to alter my grip of the FCG to re-engage the safety as I would with my firing-hand thumb.
One has to be mindful of them, however. If you do that rifle flop with an adjustable two point (when going to "safe, let it hang") where you turn the rifle so that the safety lever is exposed for all to see...there's another lever STILL up against your gear thatmay move into the FIRE position. That, and other reasons, are why I tend to NOT just let the thing hang, but keep my firing hand on the FCG so that I'm in as complete a control of the rifle as I possibbly can.
The short version is this. It makes it easier for people who can shoot an AR with their dominate and off hand to manipulate the controls.
A right handed shooter experiencing SHTF:)
All makes sence to me!
Thank you gents!
Watching the Magpul DVDs one would see Chris Costa using his index [trigger] finger to engage the safety. Its hard to imagine for me how comfortable it will be to do this without a ambi safey.
And honestly, I never gave thought to having to use the gun weak side if my right hand is somehow no longer able to stay in the fight. I have only practiced shooting weak side, never using controls on the weapon other than the trigger and charing handle. If the gun is to be a SHTF gun, then it should have the ability to be used in every way posible, right or left just in case it needs to be. Excelent point!
I have not practiced doing everything with my left hand... only some things ;) hahahaha
I do play hockey lefty... go figure...
Failure2Stop
11-04-10, 16:40
Because a warrior should not have to distinguish left from right.
If I only have one hand why am I trying to shoot a rifle? The argument of trying to release a mag left handed is a stupid one. Say you do get that mag released, how the hell are you going to reload it with only one hand? If you only have one hand, use a pistol.
Some people train shooting strong side and support side and switching hands on the fire controls. I've been trained to never take your strong hand off the fire control. And honestly there's really no good argument out there of using your support hand (it's not your weak hand) to manipulate fire controls.
Disagree if you must, but that's the truth as I know it.
What if you had to shoot around a left corner; using right hand on FCG, stock on right shoulder, would expose a lot more of your body than shooting left handed.
Mark
Perhaps I misunderstood, CJ5. You mean shooting of the left shoulder with your right hand on the pistol grip? Never tried that, but sounds like something worth exploring.
Mark
Suwannee Tim
11-04-10, 17:55
With and ambi safety I find it easiest to re-apply with my index finger but I try to resist the temptation because not all of mine have ambi controls and certainly all extant don't and never will. I prefer to master a manual of arms that applies to all ARs, ambi or not. My LMT 308 has an ambi mag release I occasionally use for popping the empty out when the gun is laying on the bench but it needs to be turned over anyway to insert the chamber flag so it is of no use to me. The LMT mag release is surprisingly simple and effective. Too bad Stoner didn't think of it and the ambi safety too.
If I only have one hand why am I trying to shoot a rifle? The argument of trying to release a mag left handed is a stupid one. Say you do get that mag released, how the hell are you going to reload it with only one hand? If you only have one hand, use a pistol.
Some people train shooting strong side and support side and switching hands on the fire controls. I've been trained to never take your strong hand off the fire control. And honestly there's really no good argument out there of using your support hand (it's not your weak hand) to manipulate fire controls.
Disagree if you must, but that's the truth as I know it.
Key word, the truth as YOU know it. That doesnt mean its the truth.
So, essentially, what you're saying is that if you lose the ability to use your strong arm, you should intentionally put yourself FURTHER behind the FUBAR curve and switch to your pistol? You could in good confidence recommend this tactic to guys in Afghanistan where enagement distances are quite a ways off?
You train so that you know how to manipulate the carbine no matter what. There is NO giving up.
Switch to your reaction hand, rest the god damned rifle on a ****ing rock if you have to and continue fighting. When it comes time to reload, pin the rifle however you have to, between your legs, between two rocks, stick it in a god damned wall and put a fresh source of ammunition in there. Manipulate the ping pong paddle, charging handle or shake the damned rifle until the bolt goes forward.
Sorry but you need to look at all scenarios, not just your own frame of reference when debating a tactic with no set scenario or circumstance on the table.
There is no downside to using ambi controls as far as i can tell. Its fairly easy to switch back to using a single side safety if that is the weapon that happens to fall into your hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrFm5h2hw6g
To contribute further to the thread i manipulate my ambi safety with the knuckle of my strong hand and vice versa if i am shooting reaction side.
Suwannee Tim
11-04-10, 18:09
If I had mastery of the manual of arms I might allow myself to the "luxury" of ambi controls but I don't and until I do have mastery of the conventional controls, I won't use ambi controls. I am a newbie to the AR and only recently find myself manipulating the controls without thinking. If I were a combatant I would damn sure learn to use the rifle weak side and one hand strong side and one hand weak side, with conventional, single sided controls.
I know my previous response is going to get a lot of flaming, and that's fine. But if you need to throw the rifle over a wounded arm (which is probably losing blood and may not even be able to be held up for long) then that's fine. But what controls do you need to manipulate that badly/quickly one handed that you couldn't sling the rifle/prop it up/etc that you couldn't do with either hand?
I really feel it's mostly unneccissary gadgets/gizmos that are more prone to failure than stock parts and require more training that most people won't do to use those parts.
If your right hand is shot to bits and you need to stay in the fight with your rifle and not a handgun and you need to reload, sling the gun, hit the mag release with your left hand, grab another mag and load it up. You'll already have to release your left hand from the gun to reload, so what's the problem?
Too many people, especially on forums like this where like minded individuals congregate, put way too much thought into some things. Often it's best to just KISS.
And I've taken training classes from some of the best known instructors in the world, and some teach to switch to reaction side for shooting and some stick only with strong side. There's thoughts behind both and what works for me may not work for you. I stick to keeping the gun in my strong hand and strong shoulder for all manipulation and obstacles and it works for me because I've trained accordingly.
If you choose to believe something different go ahead, won't hurt my feelings. But I think it's silly to invest too much into what is the current "hot item" in this years Christmas catalog. A few years ago everyone's hot item was piston guns and it sure looks like that's backed off quite a bit huh?
Beware the trap of KISS. As The Katar once said, it's often a synonym for "less capable."
When ambi controls are done correctly, they add little to no complexity or possibility of failure. They give you an added capability that regardless of whether someone "needs" it, it's better to have than not.
Yep the main reason is for people who can shoot with both hands.
Im a righty but actually shoot lefty 95% of the time, so ambi selectors are great in my book.
But like i mentioned above the only reason i can see it being a benefit to right handed shooters is if they can also shoot lefty as well.
If I only have one hand why am I trying to shoot a rifle? The argument of trying to release a mag left handed is a stupid one. Say you do get that mag released, how the hell are you going to reload it with only one hand? If you only have one hand, use a pistol.
Some people train shooting strong side and support side and switching hands on the fire controls. I've been trained to never take your strong hand off the fire control. And honestly there's really no good argument out there of using your support hand (it's not your weak hand) to manipulate fire controls.
Disagree if you must, but that's the truth as I know it.
If we kept it KISS throughout history we would still be throwing rocks at each other. Strong or support hand.
I prefer to say support hand but in reality it is the weak hand for 99% of the population. And yes I have been to a slew of those darn instructor schools where they preach not scarring the mind by saying weak hand.
As for not transitioning to our support side. Now if I am going to do a quick "roll out" to the support side, then I may not be inclined to do a transition. However try holding a cover position around a wall to your support side for an extended time. Tell me how long your gonna last. There is a lot to be said for minimizing the amount of body exposure and being able to hold a position and quickly fire with proficiency with a support side hold.
I too train to minimize the amount that I need to break a hand off of fire control and an ambi safety accomplishes that for me. As others mention as a right hander I use the ambi safety to re-engage the safety with my trigger finger, which allows me to keep my normal shooting grip and my hands on fire control. Without the ambi safety as a right hander, I need to break my hands off of the grip and roll the rifle to reach the safety which forces me to come off of fire control. As for saying that you never do something, well we should never say never and we shouldn't always say always.
Again we can attempt to make ourselves better by properly vetting and training with new items, or we can remain closed minded and keep picking up rocks to throw at one another.
Newsflash- People in the military generally only have one weapon. So even though they can't modify their weapon (in most cases) learning to shoot with the off hand makes good sense.
I know my previous response is going to get a lot of flaming, and that's fine. But if you need to throw the rifle over a wounded arm (which is probably losing blood and may not even be able to be held up for long) then that's fine. But what controls do you need to manipulate that badly/quickly one handed that you couldn't sling the rifle/prop it up/etc that you couldn't do with either hand?
I really feel it's mostly unneccissary gadgets/gizmos that are more prone to failure than stock parts and require more training that most people won't do to use those parts.
If your right hand is shot to bits and you need to stay in the fight with your rifle and not a handgun and you need to reload, sling the gun, hit the mag release with your left hand, grab another mag and load it up. You'll already have to release your left hand from the gun to reload, so what's the problem?
Too many people, especially on forums like this where like minded individuals congregate, put way too much thought into some things. Often it's best to just KISS.
And I've taken training classes from some of the best known instructors in the world, and some teach to switch to reaction side for shooting and some stick only with strong side. There's thoughts behind both and what works for me may not work for you. I stick to keeping the gun in my strong hand and strong shoulder for all manipulation and obstacles and it works for me because I've trained accordingly.
If you choose to believe something different go ahead, won't hurt my feelings. But I think it's silly to invest too much into what is the current "hot item" in this years Christmas catalog. A few years ago everyone's hot item was piston guns and it sure looks like that's backed off quite a bit huh?
Failure2Stop
11-05-10, 10:47
If I only have one hand why am I trying to shoot a rifle? The argument of trying to release a mag left handed is a stupid one. Say you do get that mag released, how the hell are you going to reload it with only one hand? If you only have one hand, use a pistol.
What if the threat(s) are beyond your capability distance with your pistol?
What if the blast or gunshots that disabled your arm also ripped off your pistol mags?
What if it would be faster to just grab your rifle off your chest instead of fighting with your holster to draw with the support hand?
What if your pistol is broken or out of ammo?
What if you don't have a pistol and your knife needs sharpening?
Come on, there are more than enough reasons to know how to shoot with your support side only.
ETA- And reloading with one hand, either side, isn't too tough. About the only thing that really sucks is a double feed or brass over bolt.
Well I think the arguments for ambi controls are a lot more convinsing than the arguments against...
Time to do some reasearch on which works the best, and start practicing.
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