ATF bust Navy SEAL smuggling weapons from Iraq

[Moose-Knuckle]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101104/ap_on_re_us/us_weapons_smuggling_navy_seal

Damn $1300 for a full auto Kalashnikov. . . http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb323.gif

[Belmont31R]

If was on his jury Id vote not guilty.




Full auto's should be legal to own without the NFA, and until recently war bring backs were common among soldiers. In fact there have been amnesty periods in the past for undocumented war bring back NFA weapons. War bring backs have been a theme of military services for over a thousand years.



Of course considering the laws and rules today what he did was dumb but that doesn't make those laws and rules right.

[Abraxas]

Full auto's should be legal to own without the NFA, and until recently war bring backs were common among soldiers. In fact there have been amnesty periods in the past for undocumented war bring back NFA weapons. War bring backs have been a theme of military services for over a thousand years.



Of course considering the laws and rules today what he did was dumb but that doesn't make those laws and rules right.
Very true

[BrianS]

This story isn't about a war trophy prosecution, what are you guys talking about?

[Belmont31R]

This story isn't about a war trophy prosecution, what are you guys talking about?




Machine guns shouldn't be illegal in the first place?



If I was on a jury I would not vote to prosecute anyone of any firearms law except theft of a firearm or something like that.


I don't care if a soldier wants to bring back 50 MG's, and sell them. They shouldn't be illegal in the first place, and our soldiers should be able to bring back as many "bring backs" as they can fit in their bags. IF they want to sell them its their property.


Remember only until recently has our own military had strict rules against bring backs. The ATF has had to have amnesty periods in the past because of the shear number of illegal NFA weapons out there that were bring backs. The ATF has also admitted there is more unregistered NFA weapons out there than registered ones.


So if some SEAL wants to risk his neck overseas, take some weapons back, and sell them then fine by me. If you're going to bring up the grenades remember that when our country was founded people legally owned cannons and other artillery weapons that were capable of more damage than a grenade. Even mortars were around at that time, and legal to own. Those were far more destructive than a hand grenade of today.

[chadbag]

The one gotcha in all this is they were supposedly trying to sell them into Mexico according to the article. But I agree with Belmont31R in principle on this.

[Caeser25]

If was on his jury Id vote not guilty.




Full auto's should be legal to own without the NFA, and until recently war bring backs were common among soldiers. In fact there have been amnesty periods in the past for undocumented war bring back NFA weapons. War bring backs have been a theme of military services for over a thousand years.



Of course considering the laws and rules today what he did was dumb but that doesn't make those laws and rules right.

Jury Nullification.

[500grains]

There is something bogus in the story. For $1300 the Mex drug lords can order a shipping container full of AKs from Mozambique.

[nickdrak]

Did you guys miss the parts of this story where it says he was in-possession of hand grenades & C4? Also, I dont consider 80 AK's to be battle field pick-up souvenirs, especially if he was selling them.

Im no fan of the ATF either, but c'mon man!

[TY44934]

Did you guys miss the parts of this story where it says he was in-possession of hand grenades & C4? Also, I dont consider 80 AK's to be battle field pick-up souvenirs, especially if he was selling them.

Im no fan of the ATF either, but c'mon man!


Agreed. Stolen gov't property? The suspects in this case knew exactly what they were doing.

And think about WHO they were trying to sell to & why? (i.e. arming criminals for money).

I appreciate the service of the Seals & know most of them are "by the book;" many are unsung heroes.

But every year or so there is a story which pops up about a special operations person caught with either stolen US weapons or smuggled ordnance. Seems to be a pattern of abuses to me (anyone else notice that?). There seems to be a permissive attitude that the weapons laws don't apply to spec ops.

Until the laws change (that is another issue) these guys need to follow the same laws as the rest of us.

[kmrtnsn]

Stolen explosives, grenades, pistols, NVG's, and Class III weapons makes these guys nothing more than smugglers and thieves. These weren't war trophies, this was stolen government property. The five years they are facing in federal prison (truth in sentencing, they'll serve 85% even if they behave) won't be pleasant.

[Belmont31R]

Stolen explosives, grenades, pistols, NVG's, and Class III weapons makes these guys nothing more than smugglers and thieves. These weren't war trophies, this was stolen government property. The five years they are facing in federal prison (truth in sentencing, they'll serve 85% even if they behave) won't be pleasant.



I specially mentioned theft as not being something I agree with.


If they got their hands on battlefield pick ups of explosives they should be able to take those home. As I said before at the time of our founding people owned cannons, mortars, ect. Those are more destructive than a grenade.


If you want to talk about certain thefts how many WW2 1911's out there were "gained" by the GI taking it home with him?


What have all these strict rules done for us? Is the world a safer place? Are kids able to go play now without fear? Has making criminals out of people who have done the same things people did 50 years ago legally (or were mused over) made us safer?

[ALCOAR]

The gem of this sad story is that the entire investigation was kicked off by some piece of shit wife beater who ratted to avoid doing a little time in county.

Wife beater rat gets off free and clear while the Seal will be made an example of. The Seal perhaps deserves his punishment but so does the wife beat rat.

[Stickman]

Full auto's should be legal to own without the NFA, and until recently war bring backs were common among soldiers.




It was never legal to bring back weapons in war and sell them to foreign countries while bypassing all laws of this land.

This isn't about NFA violations, he is a military member supplying weapons to hostiles in a foreign country. That brings massive disgrace to his team if its true, however, that is still a big if.

[kmrtnsn]

I specially mentioned theft as not being something I agree with.


If they got their hands on battlefield pick ups of explosives they should be able to take those home. As I said before at the time of our founding people owned cannons, mortars, ect. Those are more destructive than a grenade.


If you want to talk about certain thefts how many WW2 1911's out there were "gained" by the GI taking it home with him?


What have all these strict rules done for us? Is the world a safer place? Are kids able to go play now without fear? Has making criminals out of people who have done the same things people did 50 years ago legally (or were mused over) made us safer?


Safer? You bet. The difficulty in acquiring these kinds of explosives is precisely why the criminal use of these explosives and devices do not occur here like they do in other countries. Further, stealing government property was not legal 50 years ago and it isn't now. Selling grenades or explosives for prospective gang or criminal use is much more dangerous to the public than a guy with a beer can mortar or a black powder cannon. He can't easily attack a liquor store, 7-11, or police station by pulling a pin and tossing his cannon through the door or rigging a car bomb. These guys dishonored their uniforms and sold out their country for a few thousand dollars; good riddance, I refuse to make excuses for their conduct.

[Bolt_Overide]

Im not one to condemn someone on the basis of charges, so ill leave that be.

As for the other part of this dicussion, I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that war bring backs should still be legal. Stolen government arms however, should not be.

[Belmont31R]

Safer? You bet. The difficulty in acquiring these kinds of explosives is precisely why the criminal use of these explosives and devices do not occur here like they do in other countries. Further, stealing government property was not legal 50 years ago and it isn't now. Selling grenades or explosives for prospective gang or criminal use is much more dangerous to the public than a guy with a beer can mortar or a black powder cannon. He can't easily attack a liquor store, 7-11, or police station by pulling a pin and tossing his cannon through the door or rigging a car bomb. These guys dishonored their uniforms and sold out their country for a few thousand dollars; good riddance, I refuse to make excuses for their conduct.




Laws are there to prosecute people AFTER they do something. They don't prevent people from doing things.



And you might want to rethink the "that doesn't happen here" thought. I guess you missed out on the OKC bombing, 93 WTC bombing, Atlanta Olympics, Unibomber, ect. Those are just the high profile cases. Lots of bombings or attempted bombings don't really make the news like in Hemet CA where the police station had a rocket fired at it, a bomb was found next to a police car, ect.


I dont condone theft, and if they did indeed steal something then they should be charged.



Edit to say DONT condone theft...lol

[Belmont31R]

It was never legal to bring back weapons in war and sell them to foreign countries while bypassing all laws of this land.

This isn't about NFA violations, he is a military member supplying weapons to hostiles in a foreign country. That brings massive disgrace to his team if its true, however, that is still a big if.



Because the USGov has done so well handling foreign weapon sales?


I guess all those M2's, M16's, rockets, and grenades the cartels are using that were sold by our government at one point don't count? When is the person who authorized those sales going to end up in court? Oh they just get on TV and blame gun shows/gun owners.


BTW I don't think its right to take guns back from Iraq, and then sell them to the cartels. I just think its real hypocritical to jump on the bandwagon of crucifying this guy when our own gov has supplied weapons all over the world, and many of them have ended up in some pretty bad hands. Even when I was Iraq we were getting detainees in that were using weapons we got for the IA and IP.

What Im for is allowing soldiers to bring back weapons which has been custom for military's (incl our own) for a very long time. Im also against the NFA, and think people should be able to own those items. I don't agree with laws that basically punish the entire populace because a few people have abused our rights in the past at some point.

[Honu]

Did you guys miss the parts of this story where it says he was in-possession of hand grenades & C4? Also, I dont consider 80 AK's to be battle field pick-up souvenirs, especially if he was selling them.

Im no fan of the ATF either, but c'mon man!


Federal authorities say they seized C-4 military explosives from the home of a Colorado manaccused of conspiring with a Navy special forces SEAL and a Las Vegas man to smuggle machine guns from Iraq into the U.S. for sale and shipment to Mexico.


he was not caught with them as the way I read it ? his buddy in vegas he was selling the guns to had a friend who was in colorado ? and linked to the other guy in Vegas

so it could be he brought them in and sold to a guy in vegas and the guy in vegas has a buddy who had explosives ?

and the selling to Mexico ? could be good press for them to say SEE bad Americans selling to Mexico !!!!

dont know something sounds like a witch hunt on the mexico thing and linking the other stuff to him ? could be wrong not enough facts yet :)


bringing back and selling them ? I think selling them on the street is something they should not do cause it could go in the wrong hands !!
if they want to bring them back and stay in their possession I have no problem with that if they can bring back a tank ! and keep it in their possession I am fine with that
its a bad situation for Navy Seals cause this stuff in the general persons eye makes them look bad
if he was selling C4 and other explosives thats not cool though ? keep them for yourself ! again no problem just not selling them on the street


also like others we should be able to if we are honest citizens own whatever we want

nut jobs will figure out a way to blow stuff up without this stuff ? so why penalize the rest of us

[BVickery]

This isn't the case of a guy coming home with a war trophy, but rather a guy scrounging the battlefield for everything and anything to sell.

For this reason I'd vote to convict him, the whole aspect of the 2A being mute the moment it is learned he is charged with selling C4 and other armaments.

I have a huge amount of respect for those who serve, but being Active Duty or Veteran isn't a free pass to break laws. Last I did check we are a nation of laws.

[Belmont31R]

This isn't the case of a guy coming home with a war trophy, but rather a guy scrounging the battlefield for everything and anything to sell.

For this reason I'd vote to convict him, the whole aspect of the 2A being mute the moment it is learned he is charged with selling C4 and other armaments.

I have a huge amount of respect for those who serve, but being Active Duty or Veteran isn't a free pass to break laws. Last I did check we are a nation of laws.



Except he, the SEAL, isn't charged with selling C4 and neither is anyone else in this case. The only thing that was sold was about 10 AK's and some Ruger handguns.

[nickdrak]

From the article it sounds like they executed a warrant on his home and found the explosives there. He is likely facing a possession charge for the explosives.

[Belmont31R]

From the article it sounds like they executed a warrant on his home and found the explosives there. He is likely facing a possession charge for the explosives.




Nope. The guy in CO had the explosives.



What was going on was the SEAL was getting weapons from Iraq, and then transferring them to the guy in CO. The guy in CO was selling them to the guy in NV. The guy in NV sold them to the CI and ATF agent. Towards the end they bought directly from the guy in CO.


They never bought a gun directly from the SEAL who was working on the set of Transformers 3 at the time. What pegged the SEAL was the guy in NV and CO said they were getting the guns from someone in the military who was a SEAL stationed in San Diego, and got the guns in Iraq.

[usmcvet]

I wanted to bring home an SKS and a Browning High Power from The Gulf. I wasn't even allowed to bring home a bayonet. It sucked but some times the law sucks. I could not drink a beer either, I was only 19. I know a guy who snuck a Beretta home. He walked right through customs he wearing it.

He is a big boy and big boy rules apply. If he did it the He screwed up and he will have to pay the price. If he did it and is concicted he deserves to have his ass thrown in jail.

Using his position of trust and authority also earns him extra scorn in my opinion.

[Belmont31R]

I wanted to bring home an SKS and a Browning High Power from The Gulf. I wasn't even allowed to bring home a bayonet. It sucked but some times the law sucks. I could not drink a beer either, I was only 19. I know a guy who snuck a Beretta home. He walked right through customs he wearing it.

He is a big boy and big boy rules apply. If he did it the He screwed up and he will have to pay the price. If he did it and is concicted he deserves to have his ass thrown in jail.

Using his position of trust and authority also earns him extra scorn in my opinion.



Keep in mind my only "not guilty" thing here is the NFA aspect. He obviously violated military orders/laws/rules, and it appears he and the guy in CO were long time friends. The friend probably got the C4 from him, too.


I don't think, based on what Ive read, this guy is a saint at all or should get away with what he did. Im just saying if I was a juror, and a case came before me dealing with NFA violations Id vote not guilty. That doesn't excuse anything else like violating military orders, theft, ect. So far, based on the court documents, he is accused of dealing in firearms without having paid the tax, possession of an unregistered NFA weapon, and transfer of an unregistered NFA weapon. Whatever charges the military decides to levy against him is up to them, and if it turns out he stole other things like that C4, detonators, blasting caps, ect.


But yes I do think battlefield pickups should be legal. Obviously breaking those current rules is not a smart choice, and I would not do it. He can get charged with violating a legal order.



All in all a stupid thing to do for a few grand.

[Hmac]

Im just saying if I was a juror, and a case came before me dealing with NFA violations Id vote not guilty.

You'd vote "not guilty" because you don't think it's a violation of the law, or because you don't agree with the law?

[Rider79]

Stolen explosives, grenades, pistols, NVG's, and Class III weapons makes these guys nothing more than smugglers and thieves. These weren't war trophies, this was stolen government property. The five years they are facing in federal prison (truth in sentencing, they'll serve 85% even if they behave) won't be pleasant.

I think if he does go to federal prison a guy like that with SEAL training will get picked up by the ABs pretty quickly.

[Belmont31R]

You'd vote "not guilty" because you don't think it's a violation of the law, or because you don't agree with the law?



I don't agree with the law.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

[Belmont31R]

Oh and here is a copy of the complaint: http://www.scribd.com/doc/41157928/Bickle-Complaint





The guy is pretty well screwed.

[usmcvet]

It is a shame it happened at all.

Belmont I agree the NFA restrictions and laws we have frusterate me too.

I heard stories from my Dad about stuff his uncle brought home from WWII and I went for the semi auto stuff. I wish I had the High Power!

[Belmont31R]

It is a shame it happened at all.

Belmont I agree the NFA restrictions and laws we have frusterate me too.

I heard stories from my Dad about stuff his uncle brought home from WWII and I went for the semi auto stuff. I wish I had the High Power!



Yeah as I said earlier they have had amnesty in the past because they know there are more unregistered guns than registered ones. They have also admitted to losing records in the past. The whole thing is so stupid it should be done away with.


And yeah this is a shame. A guy with a bright history and future throwing it away over some crappy Iraqi Ak's and ruger pistols. I could understand it if it was some briefcase MP5's or something cool like that (just kidding).


Im just not one to say "OMGWTF a MACHINE GUN!" and flip out because of a 200 tax or a GI having some bring backs. I played with all kinds of cool shit over there including real WW2 era Sten guns, Lancaster's, ppsh's, ect. Iraq is like a gun nuts dream with all the cool shit over there Id never see in the US. If I could have Id been bring back all those cool guns, the improvised mortar tubes they were making, ect. Could have made nice decorations for my office, full of memories, ect. I think its a shame our mil has turned completely away from allowing bring backs unless its something useless. They put us in charge of lives, millions in equipment, give us belt fed machine guns, ect, and then you get the OMGWTF look if you want to bring back a WW2 historical firearm. I even borrowed a Benelli M1014 shotgun from some contractors, and it was like I was holding anthrax when I told my command about it. They did let me keep it for like 2 month though before I gave it back. I could have gotten an MP5 from them too. Used to BS with them all the time about guns, optics, general BS all the time. In fact we had an ODA on our same little FOB, and they had tons of confiscated shit laying around.


One last point...each Iraqi male (household) is allowed to have an AK. We don't even have that same level of freedom in the US.

[usmcvet]

The amnesty barrels were like a wet dream too. I never saw any of the sterlings the oldest I saw was an SKS and some old pistols.

[usmcvet]

Correct me if I am wrong guys but any civilian legally owned M14 is actually stolen Govt. Property.

[stifled]

It was never legal to bring back weapons in war and sell them to foreign countries while bypassing all laws of this land.

This isn't about NFA violations, he is a military member supplying weapons to hostiles in a foreign country. That brings massive disgrace to his team if its true, however, that is still a big if.

This pretty much boils it down. While I agree NFA is just more unreasonable gun laws which only keep things from law abiding citizens, people should not be allowed to freely sell guns to drug dealers in other countries. I don't know if he did this, but they are certainly serious allegations if true, regardless of your beliefs on gun laws.

[Robb Jensen]

Correct me if I am wrong guys but any civilian legally owned M14 is actually stolen Govt. Property.

Possibly. Springfield Armory did make transferrable M1a's pre-May 1986. We have one such gun on consignment for $11K right now. It's stamped as an M1a and not M14. I believe other companies marked their guns as M14.

[Belmont31R]

This pretty much boils it down. While I agree NFA is just more unreasonable gun laws which only keep things from law abiding citizens, people should not be allowed to freely sell guns to drug dealers in other countries. I don't know if he did this, but they are certainly serious allegations if true, regardless of your beliefs on gun laws.




I already posted the court complaints here. Read them if you want to know how it went down (according to the gov).


They never made any accusation we was selling guns to drug dealers. He sold the guns to a buddy of his in CO.


ETA: You guys have been blaming this single guy for many things the gov is not even alledging. At this point there is no accusation he sold guns to the cartels, sold explosives, stole military issue equipment, or anything else but some Iraqi Ak's and Ruger pistols also from Iraq. He didn't even sell anything directly to anyone but his buddy in CO who in then turned and sold them to the ATF (later on) and to a guy in NV (earlier on).

[kmrtnsn]

Except he, the SEAL, isn't charged with selling C4 and neither is anyone else in this case. The only thing that was sold was about 10 AK's and some Ruger handguns.

I think you need to bone up on what the elements of a conspiracy are.

[kmrtnsn]

Keep in mind this affidavit is in support of the complaint which gets the agent his arrest warrant(s). The acts alleged in these first affidavits are usually for the lesser, easiest charges to prove. The same affidavit was probably used in support of several search warrants to be executed at numerous locations. The next event on the agenda will be Grand Jury and indictments. Based on what has been found during the search warrants, superseding indictments will be handed down, alleging additional violations and counts against these guys. Expect a laundry list of 18USC92x violations for possession, etc, as well as 18USC545 Customs/Smuggling violations, as well as a 1001 or 1028 or two thrown in for good measure not to mention any money laundering allegations related to what happened to the proceeds of these transactions. Take a look at the penalty sections of the 18USC92x statutes, especially for Class III violations, the minimum sentences for these guys could easily exceed 20 plus years a piece when all is said and done.

[kmrtnsn]

CONSPIRACY
18 U.S.C. 371 makes it a separate Federal crime or offense for anyone to conspire or agree with someone else to do something which, if actually carried out, would amount to another Federal crime or offense. So, under this law, a 'conspiracy' is an agreement or a kind of 'partnership' in criminal purposes in which each member becomes the agent or partner of every other member.

In order to establish a conspiracy offense it is not necessary for the Government to prove that all of the people named in the indictment were members of the scheme; or that those who were members had entered into any formal type of agreement; or that the members had planned together all of the details of the scheme or the 'overt acts' that the indictment charges would be carried out in an effort to commit the intended crime.

Also, because the essence of a conspiracy offense is the making of the agreement itself (followed by the commission of any overt act), it is not necessary for the Government to prove that the conspirators actually succeeded in accomplishing their unlawful plan.

What the evidence in the case must show beyond a reasonable doubt is:

First: That two or more persons, in some way or manner, came to a mutual understanding to try to accomplish a common and unlawful plan, as charged in the indictment;

Second: That the person willfully became a member of such conspiracy;

Third: That one of the conspirators during the existence of the conspiracy knowingly committed at least one of the methods (or 'overt acts') described in the indictment; and

Fourth: That such 'overt act' was knowingly committed at or about the time alleged in an effort to carry out or accomplish some object of the conspiracy.

An 'overt act' is any transaction or event, even one which may be entirely innocent when considered alone, but which is knowingly committed by a conspirator in an effort to accomplish some object of the conspiracy.

A person may become a member of a conspiracy without knowing all of the details of the unlawful scheme, and without knowing who all of the other members are. So, if a person has an understanding of the unlawful nature of a plan and knowingly and willfully joins in that plan on one occasion, that is sufficient to convict him for conspiracy even though he did not participate before, and even though he played only a minor part.

Of course, mere presence at the scene of a transaction or event, or the mere fact that certain persons may have associated with each other, and may have assembled together and discussed common aims and interests, does not necessarily establish proof of a conspiracy. Also, a person who has no knowledge of a conspiracy, but who happens to act in a way which advances some purpose of one, does not thereby become a conspirator.

A combination or agreement of two or more persons to join together to attempt to accomplish some unlawful purpose. It is a kind of 'partnership in criminal purposes,' and willful participation in such a scheme or agreement, followed by the commission of an overt act by one of the conspirators is sufficient to complete the offense of 'conspiracy' itself even though the ultimate criminal object of the conspiracy is not accomplished or carried out. To establish the offense of 'conspiracy' the Government must prove:

(1) That two or more persons in some way or manner, came to a mutual understanding to try to accomplish a common and unlawful plan, as charged in the indictment; (2) That the person willfully became a member of such conspiracy; (3) That one of the conspirators during the existence of the conspiracy knowingly committed at least one of the methods (or 'overt acts') described in the indictment; and (4) That such 'overt act' was knowingly committed at or about the time alleged in an effort to effect or accomplish some object or purpose of the conspiracy.

A person may become a member of a conspiracy without full knowledge of all of the details of the unlawful scheme or the names and identities of all of the other alleged conspirators. So, if a person has an understanding of the unlawful nature of a plan and knowingly and willfully joins in that plan on one occasion, that is sufficient to convict him for conspiracy even though he had not participated before and even though he played only a minor part.

Of course, mere presence at the scene of a transaction or event, or the mere fact that certain persons may have associated with each other, and may have assembled together and discussed common aims and interests, does not necessarily establish proof of a conspiracy. Also, a person who has no knowledge of a conspiracy, but who happens to act in a way which advances some purpose of one, does not thereby become a conspirator.

An agreement between two or more persons to do an unlawful act or an act which may become by the combination injurious to others. Formerly this offence was much more circumscribed in its meaning than it is now. Lord Coke describes it as 'a consultation or agreement between two or more to appeal or indict an innocent person falsely and maliciously, whom accordingly they cause to be indicted or appealed and afterwards the party is acquitted by the verdict of twelve men.'

The crime of conspiracy, according to its modern interpretation, may be of two kinds, Damely, conspiracies against the public, or such as endanger the public health, violate public morals, insult public justice, destroy the public peace, or affect public trade or business.

To remedy these evils the guilty persons may be indicted in the name of the commonwealth. Conspiracies against individuals are such as have a tendency to injure them in their persons, reputation, or property. The remedy in these cases is either by indictment or by a civil action.

In order to render the offence complete, there is no occasion that any act should be done in pursuance of the unlawful agreement entered into between the parties, or that any one should have been defrauded or injured by it. The conspiracy is the gist of the crane.

By the former laws of the United States, a willful and corrupt conspiracy to cast away, burn or otherwise destroy any ship or vessel with intent to injure any underwriter thereon, or the goods on board thereof, or any lender of money on such vessel, on bottomry or respondentia, is made felony, and the offender punishable by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars and by imprisonment and confinement at hard labor not exceeding ten years.

By the old Revised Statutes of New York it is enacted that if any two or more persons shall conspire either: 1. To commit any offence, or; 2. Falsely and maliciously to indict another for any offence, or; 3. Falsely to move or maintain any suit, or; 4. To cheat and defraud any person of any property, by any means which are in themselves criminal, or; 5. To cheat and defraud any person of any property, by means which, if executed, would amount to a cheat, or to obtaining property by false pretences, or; 6. To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals, or to trade and commerce, or for the perversion or obstruction of justice, or the due administration of the laws; they shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor. No other conspiracies are there punishable criminally. And no agreement, except to commit a felony upon the person of another, or to commit arson or burglary, shall be deemed a conspiracy, unless some act besides such agreement be done to effect the object thereof, by one or more of the parties to such agreement.

When a felony has been committed in pursuance of a conspiracy, the latter, which is only a misdemeanor, is merged in the former; but when a misdemeanor only has been committed in pursuance of such conspiracy, the two crimes being of equal degree, there can be no legal technical merger.

--b--

[Belmont31R]

Keep in mind this affidavit is in support of the complaint which gets the agent his arrest warrant(s). The acts alleged in these first affidavits are usually for the lesser, easiest charges to prove. The same affidavit was probably used in support of several search warrants to be executed at numerous locations. The next event on the agenda will be Grand Jury and indictments. Based on what has been found during the search warrants, superseding indictments will be handed down, alleging additional violations and counts against these guys. Expect a laundry list of 18USC92x violations for possession, etc, as well as 18USC545 Customs/Smuggling violations, as well as a 1001 or 1028 or two thrown in for good measure not to mention any money laundering allegations related to what happened to the proceeds of these transactions. Take a look at the penalty sections of the 18USC92x statutes, especially for Class III violations, the minimum sentences for these guys could easily exceed 20 plus years a piece when all is said and done.



You're right. There is a law for everything now. Even my alarm clock is subject to federal laws.


Im going to feel so good tomorrow morning because a Navy SEAL took some guns home, sold them, and got caught. I can go let my kids play in the street tomorrow!

[Caeser25]

This isn't the case of a guy coming home with a war trophy, but rather a guy scrounging the battlefield for everything and anything to sell.

For this reason I'd vote to convict him, the whole aspect of the 2A being mute the moment it is learned he is charged with selling C4 and other armaments.

I have a huge amount of respect for those who serve, but being Active Duty or Veteran isn't a free pass to break laws. Last I did check we are a nation of laws.

I don't condone what teh breaking of laws. He is also innocent until proven guilty as well.


I don't agree with the law.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

http://fija.org/