Colt LE6920 vs. S&W15T

[mtclay]

Hello All,

I believe that this is my first post on this forum.

I'm considering purchasing my first AR -- primarily for home defense at this point, but I'm also thinking about entering 3 gun (already shoot IPSC Limited 10).

I carried a CAR-15 during two tours in Vietnam nearly 30 years ago so I'm familiar with operating an m4-type weapon. However, what I've missed is the revolution in add-on's such as optics, lasers, rails, different hand guards, etc.

Initially I'll probably just add an EoTech or an Aimpoint.

Are the above two rifles good choices? Which one is better and why? Any other preferable choices in the same approximate price range as a "starter rifle?"

Thanks,
Mike

[Razorhunter]

Most guys here, including myself, will tell you to go with the Colt over the S&W any day.
I can't speak from experience with the S&W, but you will need to check to see if it's a true Milspec weapon. The Colt is about the best DI gun on the market, or at least one of them. Many of us on this forum, won't buy anything other than Colt, LMT, or maybe a Bravo Company Milspec rifle/carbine. There are other decent rifles/carbines, but these are the top 3 in my personal opinion (and many others opinions too).
You just can't go wrong with a Colt, LMT, or BCM (Bravo Co.) Not sure if the BCM's are in stock or not though.
A new Colt 6920 is about as good as it gets, as far as direct impingement carbines go.
Your plan of adding only an Eotech or an Aimpoint to begin with, is about the best idea you could have. No need for all kinds of attachments to weigh down the rifle, unless you really need them. Add an optic and a light (especially if for home defense), and you are good to go.
I'm sure others will chime in with info on the S&W, and their thoughs on it. My vote is for Colt 6920 or LMT all the way.

[C4IGrant]

The Colt is a Mil-Spec, TDP following weapon. The 15T is an excellent AR and does use a lot of quality components, but it is not equal to the 6920 IMHO.


C4

[COLT]

Hello All,

I believe that this is my first post on this forum.

I'm considering purchasing my first AR -- primarily for home defense at this point, but I'm also thinking about entering 3 gun (already shoot IPSC Limited 10).

I carried a CAR-15 during two tours in Vietnam nearly 30 years ago so I'm familiar with operating an m4-type weapon. However, what I've missed is the revolution in add-on's such as optics, lasers, rails, different hand guards, etc.

Initially I'll probably just add an EoTech or an Aimpoint.

Are the above two rifles good choices? Which one is better and why? Any other preferable choices in the same approximate price range as a "starter rifle?"

Thanks,
Mike


6920 ALLLLLLLLL THE WAY

[Bison]

I can't speak from experience with the S&W, but you will need to check to see if it's a true Milspec weapon.

Actually, you won't need to do that. If you'll be using this gun for 3-gun and home defense there is absolutely no requirement that the gun is a "true mil-spec" gun. Lot's of people feel that is important and that is fine and I certainly wouldn't recommend a Bushmaster or DPMS or the like due to questionable qualtity control and questionable specs (like a bolt carrier that is not staked). However, if you're going to be using the carbine for the stated purposes, one that is mostly milspec will probably do just fine. The 6920 is about as close as you'll get to a "mil-spec" carbine in the civi market and Colt folks like that, I suppose.

I'm here to say that the S&W is a better deal than the Colt and here is why:

1) If you want to add lights and lasers, etc., to the mix, you'll have an easier time doing that with the Smith because it comes standard with one of the best front rails on the market (Troy Industries). If you want such a rail on your Colt, you're going to pay extra and either mount it yourself or pay someone else to do it.

2) You mention mounting optics like an Aimpoint or Eotech. Good choices. However, you might want backup iron sights in case the batteries fail. On the Colt, that will cost extra unless you mount your optic atop the removable carry handle. The Smith, again, comes standard with some of the best BUIS in the buisness. Again, they are made by Troy Industries.

3) Many folks say buy Colt or LMT. The reason is that they are quality manufacurers that have gov't contracts making them "tier one." That is solid reasoning and they do produce products that are within the spec of the gov't. Therefore, you'll be pleaseed to note that the important parts of the upper found in the M&P15T are manufactured by LMT. That is the BCG is a LMT BCG, through and through.

4) Ok, this is a very minor point, but I like it: the Colt has a 4 position stock and the Smith has a 6 position stock. If you are tall, probably won't make a hill of beans difference if you're just pulling it all the way out. But it is there.

5) Many folks like the 1/7 twist barrel found in the 6920. If you are shooting 62 grain bullets like the Army issues, that is a good twist and it will stablize heavier bullets. If, on the other hand, you're going to shoot the more widely available (especially these days) 55 grain rounds, the 1/9 twist will be fine while still allowing good performance with a 62 grain bullet. THat is not to say that the 1/7 won't work with a 55 grain bullet. It will. Basically, though, 1/7 is not quite as versitle as 1/9. The better choice is a point of endless debate, though.

6) Finally, if you want to switch out uppers for say a carbine vs. a long range rig, you might have trouble with the Colt pins being a different size than pretty much everyone else who makes ARs on the planet.

So, considering the cost is close to equal at about $1,300.00 for either, I'd say go with the S&W for your purposes. They are absolutely both quality carbines, but you get more bang for your buck with the Smith. That is why I bought the M&P15T myself (I also shoot 3-gun matches with mine and compete in USPSA matches in the L-10 division).

All that is not to detract from Colt's model as it is certainly a good carbine and is also on my wishlist if I could afford to sink another $1,300.00 on a 2d AR. But, I couldn't. So, the M&P15T was my pick and I haven't had a bit of trouble.

The choice, of course, is yours and I don't think you could go wrong either way. So, good luck with your hunt and let us know what you choose.

[SHIVAN]

S&W is a fine AR. The 6920 is most likely superior in every facet, except price, when compared in a checklist fashion.

[Bison]

Oh yeah, by the way, welcome to the forum! There are a whole host of folks around here that can provide a wide range of info. on a wide range of topics. Great resource.

Also watch out for the check list that will certainly be pointed out to you. It can be misleading and doesn't actually compare the M&P15T to the 6920.

[kingc]

Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions on the two carbines. I wanted to say that the pivot pin on the current Colt's has been milspec size/retained for the last several years, so switching out uppers should be no troubles.

[Shihan]

The thing about the M&PT that overshadows the Colt is for about the same price the S&W has all of the goodies already included so it would save you quite abit of $$$$. By the looks of things the uses you have the S&W would be more than fine. If money dosent matter than i would get the Colt.

[rob_s]

I like this post and I think it's generally pretty well thought out and makes some good points. With that said, allow me to rebut :D

Since you only addressed the "upscale" M&P I'll do the same. I am well aware that there is a base model that is available for less.


I'm here to say that the S&W is a better deal than the Colt and here is why:

1) If you want to add lights and lasers, etc., to the mix, you'll have an easier time doing that with the Smith because it comes standard with one of the best front rails on the market (Troy Industries). If you want such a rail on your Colt, you're going to pay extra and either mount it yourself or pay someone else to do it.
Which is all well and good if you want that particular rail, with their particular gas block. If you want a Daniel Defense rail over a shaved, pinned, FSB you're screwed, likewise if you want a Larue rail over one of their low-profile gas blocks.


2) You mention mounting optics like an Aimpoint or Eotech. Good choices. However, you might want backup iron sights in case the batteries fail. On the Colt, that will cost extra unless you mount your optic atop the removable carry handle. The Smith, again, comes standard with some of the best BUIS in the buisness. Again, they are made by Troy Industries.
And again, just fine if you want the Troys (which are an excellent product to be sure). But many people, myself included, prefer fixed BUIS when using a 1x optic and for that the FSB and a cut-down carry handle on the Colt are a better choice.


3) Many folks say buy Colt or LMT. The reason is that they are quality manufacurers that have gov't contracts making them "tier one." That is solid reasoning and they do produce products that are within the spec of the gov't. Therefore, you'll be pleaseed to note that the important parts of the upper found in the M&P15T are manufactured by LMT. That is the BCG is a LMT BCG, through and through.
Some people would argue that the higher quality barrel steel of the Colt or LMT is also of value.


4) Ok, this is a very minor point, but I like it: the Colt has a 4 position stock and the Smith has a 6 position stock. If you are tall, probably won't make a hill of beans difference if you're just pulling it all the way out. But it is there.
This may actually be more of a point than you give it credit for, since almost nobody that knows what they are doing is running the stock all the way out, nor are they constantly adjusting the thing. Frankly, my ARs could have two positions for all I care; closed for transport and out to the first notch for shooting.

5) Many folks like the 1/7 twist barrel found in the 6920. If you are shooting 62 grain bullets like the Army issues, that is a good twist and it will stablize heavier bullets. If, on the other hand, you're going to shoot the more widely available (especially these days) 55 grain rounds, the 1/9 twist will be fine while still allowing good performance with a 62 grain bullet. THat is not to say that the 1/7 won't work with a 55 grain bullet. It will. Basically, though, 1/7 is not quite as versitle as 1/9. The better choice is a point of endless debate, though.
This is a good point as well, however, what most that choose the 1:7 are interested in is the greater accuracy and long-range terminal ballistics of the heavier (longer, actually) projectiles. I like my 1:7 because when I'm actually USING the rifle I know I'm getting the best performance I can out of my 75 grain Black Hills, but I can still hit a 10" steel plate with XM193 or Wolf at 200 yards when practicing.


6) Finally, if you want to switch out uppers for say a carbine vs. a long range rig, you might have trouble with the Colt pins being a different size than pretty much everyone else who makes ARs on the planet.
This is an incorrect statement when discussing a 6920 or any current production Colts.


So, considering the cost is close to equal at about $1,300.00 for either, I'd say go with the S&W for your purposes. They are absolutely both quality carbines, but you get more bang for your buck with the Smith. That is why I bought the M&P15T myself (I also shoot 3-gun matches with mine and compete in USPSA matches in the L-10 division).
You make a very good point and some very compelling arguments. Even more so when discussing a person's first AR, as they likely don't know what sights and/or rail they're ultimately going to want and at least in the case of the S&W they are getting quality parts all around.

[rob_s]

The thing about the M&PT that overshadows the Colt is for about the same price the S&W has all of the goodies already included so it would save you quite abit of $$$$. By the looks of things the uses you have the S&W would be more than fine. If money dosent matter than i would get the Colt.

That is true, the S&W offers more "bling" than the Colt right out of the box for approximately the same money.

Some people will want to buy a base-model Cadillac and add in their own navigation, rims, tires, etc. while others will choose to buy a factory-bling Honda.
:D

[rob_s]

One other choice would be to assemble your own LMT from upper, lower, and BCG all bought separately. This should cost under $1k and is not as daunting a task as some make it out to be. In fact, most vendors that carry LMT carry all three and can send the upper and BCG direct to you while the complete lower goes through your local FFL for the transfer.

[hatt]

If I were going to drop $1200-$1300 out of the gate for a factory gun I'd go with the Colt. You can add the bling to the Colt but you can't add the Colt to the S&W. That being said I have no Colts but I do have a S&W. I'd get the M&P15A over the T and buy parts along the way as you see fit.

[Pat_Rogers]

MtClay- Welcome aboard. Thank you for your service to your country.

Bison- excellent post!

This whole AR thing could drive someone nuts in a short while if they let themselves/ others carry it to a parrallel dimension.
While to 6920 is possibly the gold standard of the rack bought guns, my limited experience w/ the M&P's is that they have a lot of potential, and with a few tweaks down the line can be a very viable stick.

Let us know what you buy and how it performs.

[Bison]

Rob -- you also make some good points. Truly, if he is considering these two carbines, he'll probably be just fine whichever way he goes.

Pat -- thanks.

[Heavy Metal]

FWIW, I was knocking the living crap out of several steel gongs and a steel deer set up at 300, 400, and 500 Yards(bambi) respectively at a friends farm Saturday with nothing but 55 grain remmington ball. Thru a 1/7 twist barrel with very good practical results.

Bambi took some figuring to get my hold-over though. I got the 300 and 400 gongs on my first shots.

My only support was a monopoded pmag off of a haybale.

Once I figured my hold-over, it was fairly easy as the wind was dead as a doornail.

My rig was a 6920 and an Aimpoint M4 I both got from Grant last month.

I swear the dot is sharper and more defined on the Aimpoint M4 than on my EoTech.

You will not regret a 6920. This is far from my first AR and I love the crap out of it.

[LIL-COMMANDO]

Go with the Colt 6920:D It may cost you more but I think this weapon will hold its value. I have a sporter Light Weight I bought in 1990 for $640.00 and in its excellent condition I can sell it for double of what I paid for it.

I do like how Smith's AR is priced nicely for the tactical model at just over $1200. at Buds Guns. This will do nicely and I think the Troy rail that is attached is very nice. I own a 6920 I use for duty and my 6933 will be in hands as soon as my ATF paper work is completed.

Good look with your choice but the Smith tactical AR is a far better price if your on a budget.

[COLT]

Go with the Colt 6920:D It may cost you more but I think this weapon will hold its value. I have a sporter Light Weight I bought in 1990 for $640.00 and in its excellent condition I can sell it for double of what I paid for it.

I do like how Smith's AR is priced nicely for the tactical model at just over $1200. at Buds Guns. This will do nicely and I think the Troy rail that is attached is very nice. I own a 6920 I use for duty and my 6933 will be in hands as soon as my ATF paper work is completed.

Good look with your choice but the Smith tactical AR is a far better price if your on a budget.


http://code4lesales.com/listman/listings/l0005.php 6920 $1199.95

[LIL-COMMANDO]

http://code4lesales.com/listman/listings/l0005.php 6920 $1199.95


Yes I agree and would get the Colt for that great price. But if you want a rifle with the rails and other items as the Smith's tactical model has then thats a great buy with what it comes with. I would rather have a Colt and add your stuff later.

[Alpha Sierra]

I have just one small point to add re: barrel rifling rate.

It is a misconception that the 1/7 twist was introduced to stabilize the projectile found in M855 ball. 1/7 was introduced to stabilize the much longer M856 tracer round. M856 has a longer bullet to accomodate more pyro material to let SAW gunners see tracers all the way to 800 yds IIRC (don't quote me on the exact range).

The point is that a 1/9 barrel will most definitely stabilize the 62 grain bullet in M855 ammo for as long as the bullet stays supersonic, which will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 - 900 yards. This I know from first hand experience.

[mtclay]

Sorry to take so long to get back to everyone on this thread.

Many thanks to all those who responded to my original question. The responses provided and other info gleaned from this site played a big role in making my decision.

I wanted to handle both guns in person before I made up my mind, and I had a hell of a time finding a Colt 6920 to look at. Finally, today at my local gun store/indoor range I got to look at a 6920.

Decision made -- a Colt 6920 is on the way!

Thanks again,
Mike

[ZGXtreme]

Congrats Bro! I got my first Colt a month and a half ago and LOVE it. The Colt bug bites hard so just a heads up haha!

Have fun with it, you will throughly enjoy that rifle!

[QuickStrike]

Congrats!

I just traded an m14 for a colt 6920 and some cash yesterday. :cool:

[CQB27]

I think you will be happy with the 6920, here's mine.........

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/CQB233/rifle.jpg

[thmpr]

The comparison should have been a Noveske vs Colt