View Full Version : At gunshow please help. Does Daniel Defense make sog uppers?
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 09:52
Guy here Is claiming it. Want to make sure before I pull trigger.
Thanks
I wouldnt believe anything SOG told you.
not to mention the fact they are overpriced...
where is the funshow this weekend ?
I wouldnt believe anything SOG told you.
not to mention the fact they are overpriced...
WAY over priced for retarded crap i wouldn't buy underpriced.
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 10:03
I'm at the fortworth show. Trying to find a 16" middy dd with "12 rails. Not having any luck.
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 10:42
It's a delton dpms s festival here :/
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 11:38
I found a buyer for my whole rifle so I'm just going to buy a full dd!
I found a buyer for my whole rifle so I'm just going to buy a full dd!
excellent choice, sir.
post up pics and review when you return to sanity...
I found a buyer for my whole rifle so I'm just going to buy a full dd!
I bought my lower from lonestarsales at one of the Ft. Worth shows. But i think all he carries is RRA, DPMS...stuffs. Which of course is no go for uppers.
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 14:30
Well I went to the gun show like this
The lower was inside the bag. Some one offered to buy the whole gun. ( at a very good price) So I said sure! I walked right over to where this DD middy was sitting and for a tad more walked out w/ it!
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0008-2.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/AR.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0014NEF.jpg
Quiet-Matt
11-06-10, 15:19
That's a nice DD, but not a middy. That's a M4v1 carbine. Still a good gun.
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 15:25
That's a nice DD, but not a middy. That's a M4v1 carbine. Still a good gun.
What???? They said it was a mid length gas system...
jklaughrey
11-06-10, 15:28
It is a carbine gas length, there are no DD rails that have a middy FSB cut out with rail extended in front. That is a OmegaX 12inch FSP. I sent you a pm on this.
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 15:35
It is a carbine gas length, there are no DD rails that have a middy FSB cut out with rail extended in front. That is a OmegaX 12inch FSP. I sent you a pm on this.
Well that bites. I asked MORE than once if it was the mid length. I'm sure it will be a great gun, but it's: disappointing that I was lied to. :sad:
xbmxracerx
11-06-10, 15:37
I sent him a pm an hour or so ago when I first saw this with a few things to check to verify but based on the image, the v1 is the correct assumption.
You would think most gun show vendors would be educated on everything they sell but it was crazy at the one I went to in PA here a few months back that how many do not.
That's a nice DD, but not a middy. That's a M4v1 carbine. Still a good gun.
xbmxracerx
11-06-10, 15:40
Shows are usually 2 days so go back tomorrow and vent. Did you put the grip on or was it part of the weapon as you bought it? What else was changed(that we can't see)? BCG and other internals? Just check as it can't hurt to get clarification.
Well that bites. I asked MORE than once if it was the mid length. I'm sure it will be a great gun, but it's: disappointing that I was lied to. :sad:
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 15:44
They put the grip on for me. I work from 6-6 tomorrow, and they are out of Huston.
jklaughrey
11-06-10, 16:21
Would go get my money back period. If it isn't what you wanted don't settle. Fact is they were either ignorant of what they sold or knew and lied to make a sale. Either way this is unacceptable business practice.
Would mount an X300 @ 12 o'clock and shoot the crap out of it.
Belmont31R
11-06-10, 16:37
Ive already complained to DD about SOG Armory. They take things like rail panels off rails that should come with them, and then try to charge extra to get what should have come with the rail in the first place.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were taking BCG's out to sell, and putting shitty ones in the guns if they are willing to rat **** rail covers and selling them separately.
Um, yeah disregard my first post. Disgusting business practice to say the least.
you went and bought something from SOG, AFTER I warned you they are liars ? :confused:
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 18:37
Well, there were 3 of these rifles at the gun show. Every one claimed that their rifle was a middy. What I wanted was a Mid-length, but I'm happy with this carbine. I went and shot it, it feels great. Everything else checked out fine. I feel I sold my bushmaster at a high price, and bought this one at such a low price that I almost was not out any money. Next time I go to a show looking for a gun, I'll take a f-ing picture and model number with me. :laugh:
Next time I go to a show looking for a gun, I'll take someone that knows a f-ing thing about guns with me. :laugh:
fixed it for ya. :D
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 19:14
fixed it for ya. :D
meanie
Well, there were 3 of these rifles at the gun show. Every one claimed that their rifle was a middy. What I wanted was a Mid-length, but I'm happy with this carbine. I went and shot it, it feels great. Everything else checked out fine. I feel I sold my bushmaster at a high price, and bought this one at such a low price that I almost was not out any money. Next time I go to a show looking for a gun, I'll take a f-ing picture and model number with me. :laugh:
If you upgraded from Bushy to DD without much pain you should be happy... play lotto tonight....
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 19:51
If you upgraded from Bushy to DD without much pain you should be happy... play lotto tonight....
That's really the way I was thinking. I had not researched full DD rifles much, I had just been researching the uppers. I still feel lucky on both deals I did today.
don't feel bad at all. that is one of the most desirable rifles you could own.
I have three middys and I still got one of those. very nice and capable shooter from a top notch company. to convert a Bushy and some cash into a DD was a masterstroke. good job... <we need a thumbs-up smilie>
Dieselgeek, you have a rifle that should tens of thousands of rounds. It is as good a choice as there is. There is nothing wrong with a carbine length system. But I have to ask, if you wanted a middy that's what you should have got. But if you have been reading here at all you could tell the difference very quickly with a cursory once over. If you don't know the difference, what makes you think you would know the difference in shooting the 2 types or would ever see any real advantages either way? Not trying to hammer on you at all but there is a metric shit ton of information on the differences here on this site.
dieselgeek
11-06-10, 21:27
Dieselgeek, you have a rifle that should tens of thousands of rounds. It is as good a choice as there is. There is nothing wrong with a carbine length system. But I have to ask, if you wanted a middy that's what you should have got. But if you have been reading here at all you could tell the difference very quickly with a cursory once over. If you don't know the difference, what makes you think you would know the difference in shooting the 2 types or would ever see any real advantages either way? Not trying to hammer on you at all but there is a metric shit ton of information on the differences here on this site.
I've been reading and reading about them, I knew what I wanted I had looked at them at the gun show. I think the 12" rail through me off. I only saw a handful of mid-length uppers at the show, to me this looked right. Then w/ two different tables having this same rifle calling it a mid-length, I figured they were right. I did not just walk up to the table and buy it, I walked around the place for what seemed like forever. Stopped by the table more than once, trying to put together the upper I wanted. Then someone offered to buy my whole rifle, so I just bought this one whole. All I guess I can say is my bad lesson learned. I guess I should of had a tape measure with me to make sure.
I'm sure some people will say they would of never made such a mistake,and I'm okay with that. I enjoyed shooting it today and I'm very happy with the rifle, just not happy with SOG for lying to me about it.
Quiet-Matt
11-07-10, 06:44
I enjoyed shooting it today and I'm very happy with the rifle, just not happy with SOG for lying to me about it.
Glad you're ok with it. Mid-length or Carbine gas, that's a fine rifle. When I submitted that first post I told my wife "I think I just ruined this guy's whole day:(". I'm glad you're satisfied, now go shoot the crap out of it.:big_boss:
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 07:11
Thanks for the kind words. I emailed dd last night, just to make them aware of what happened. Again I'm still really glad I was able to get such a nice rifle.
It sounds like you did just fine. I love that rail. I would slap an X300 and laugh a little about it. This is just a little bit of lifes tuition. Hey you could be the guy who bought a BM out of a back pack for a few hundred less than a DD!
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 07:58
I have a tlr-1 that I tried on it last night. Seems to fit it well, it will take some getting used to, but it does not really get in the way.
justin_247
11-07-10, 09:52
Great choice of weaponry! Definitely check to make sure you have a DD full-auto BCG, though.
You've come a long ways in the past few days... earlier this week you were bashing Noveske and talking about how great your Bushy is, and now you're selling it. Absolutely awesome!
Now he knows what a middy is too. I wonder if the sales person does?
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 10:36
Great choice of weaponry! Definitely check to make sure you have a DD full-auto BCG, though.
You've come a long ways in the past few days... earlier this week you were bashing Noveske and talking about how great your Bushy is, and now you're selling it. Absolutely awesome!
Hey now, I never bashed any brand! My point in the other thread was that both sides could get defensive. Which they did so I just left the thread. My bushy was a good rifle and gave me no problems, but some one offered me to much money for it, so I took it as a chance to upgrade.
Nice upgrade. I was thinking about going out to that show this afternoon. Maybe I'll run into the guy trying to sell your BM to upgrade to a DD. :sarcastic:
What does SOG stand for? I have found several SOG's, I would like to know which one.
GermanSynergy
11-07-10, 14:14
The guy is a liar or a misinformed idiot. This is why I loathe going to gun shows...
Guy here Is claiming it. Want to make sure before I pull trigger.
Thanks
What does SOG stand for? I have found several SOG's, I would like to know which one.
You are right, no need to bad mouth the wrong folks.
http://www.sogarmory.com/
They do the Texas Gun Show Circuit. I assume this is who Op is talking about, that and the fact I know they make shit up too from personal experience.
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 15:55
Yep, it was SOG.
http://tapa.tk/mu/414366d5-2022-ba49.jpg
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 16:01
The guy is a liar or a misinformed idiot. This is why I loathe going to gun shows...
He was directly related to the owner of the shop. That's what he told me at least.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 16:16
Hey you could be the guy who bought a BM out of a back pack for a few hundred less than a DD![/QUOTE]
i about shit myself.
i nkow how he feels, it took me puttinf together two rifles, the third i assembled was a dd carbine with all dd parts.
i did sell my spikes lower for 20 more than i paid
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 16:18
Just FYI I emailed DD and SOG.
The question that no one has asked and should, IS, what is the length of a middy fron the receiver to the gas bloc/ front sight. Isn't it longer than a carbine length?
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 16:52
The question that no one has asked and should, IS, what is the length of a middy fron the receiver to the gas bloc/ front sight. Isn't it longer than a carbine length?
From what I understand it's 9 inches. Of course I"m the guy who got it wrong.
Carbine is 7"
Midlength is 9"
I think we're all still wondering if you got gypped out of a real DD BCG. Check it and let us all know. You really want to make sure on that.
I think we're all still wondering if you got gypped out of a real DD BCG. Check it and let us all know. You really want to make sure on that.
Yes we are,,,,
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 18:16
my dd bcg has the dd embossed on it right where bcm puts there logo
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz266/mkIII1022/SU1HMDAxNTQtMjAxMDExMDctMTkxOS5qcGc.jpg
Well that bites. I asked MORE than once if it was the mid length. I'm sure it will be a great gun, but it's: disappointing that I was lied to. :sad:
My experience is that you get cheated less on the internet.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 18:24
My experience is that you get cheated less on the internet.
thats what i found out
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 19:00
my dd bcg has the dd embossed on it right where bcm puts there logo
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz266/mkIII1022/SU1HMDAxNTQtMjAxMDExMDctMTkxOS5qcGc.jpg
Is this true on all of them? I'm uploading my pictures in a min. I def don't have a DD on my BCG.
That has me worried. Here are some better more detailed pictures of the gun. Maybe this needs a new thread? I'd really like to know if I got screwed on parts as well.
TIA
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/Real_.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/Real__1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0008-5.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0009-5.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0010-2.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0011-4.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0012-1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0013.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0014-3.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0015.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0030.jpg
Based on your photos, your most likely got a legit DD. I would definitely call SOG and let them know about your dissatisfaction.
Though I doubt they care because their rep is fairly well known on here and area members.
Looks to be properly staked, give a full length shot of the bottom of the carrier. I think some of the early DD BCGs did not come with the laser etch.
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 19:13
Based on your photos, your most likely got a legit DD. I would definitely call SOG and let them know about your dissatisfaction.
Though I doubt they care because their rep is fairly well known on here and area members.
Would you please link me to his profile?
Thank you
Ryan
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 19:15
I agree with iraqgunz, the weapon itself looks just like mine. ive seen on other sites when ordering my bolt carrier group some listed it with the logo and some said nothing about it. my bcg came from bravo company. as far as your bcg it looks like the gas key has been staked properly but you might want to ask dd how to identify there bcg
xbmxracerx
11-07-10, 19:17
Looking at the lower, it is stamped with the Savannah GA location. Based on research of time stamp, the BCG might not have been stamped at that time. Mine was purchased in June and from the Black Creek GA location and mine is stamped. Call DD and ask for Joe to get closure.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG01536-20101010-2335.jpg
The day I got it.....
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/MyDDM43.jpg
Is this true on all of them? I'm uploading my pictures in a min. I def don't have a DD on my BCG.
That has me worried. Here are some better more detailed pictures of the gun. Maybe this needs a new thread? I'd really like to know if I got screwed on parts as well.
TIA
I'm sure you could contact DD with your serial number and ask if it was made before the DD engraving. That is a fairly new thing with DD. It is too bad you are even worrying about it. I agree you should contact SOG and let them kow you're upset. I think you have a kick ass gun. It will serve you well.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 19:32
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz266/mkIII1022/SU1HMDAxNTYtMjAxMDExMDctMjAyOS5qcGc.jpg
crapy cell phone pic
mine says the same
Which profile?
Would you please link me to his profile?
Thank you
Ryan
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 19:35
Which profile?
Of the SOG rep on this forum.
Of the SOG rep on this forum.
He meant 'rep' as in reputation.
Quiet-Matt
11-07-10, 19:58
I have an older DD BCG with no marknigs. No etching, no MP markings or anything else. It came from DD new in the tube.
Roger that.
He meant 'rep' as in reputation.
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 20:22
OIC:laugh:
Well anyway, I put it back together. I've emailed SOG an DD. Can't turn out that bad as it's a great gun.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0009-6.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0007-5.jpg
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 20:25
yes they are great guns. mine is awesome
RogerinTPA
11-07-10, 20:49
Anyone else think the rails on that DD BCG looks way too worn to be new. There are an awful lot of shiny bare metal showing on them. Even the rear portion of the bolt looks like it's been scrubbed free of carbon. It looks like one of mine with 10K rounds on it.:confused: I hope the seller didn't play switcheroo with your new DDM4.
Anyone else think the rails on that DD BCG looks way too worn to be new. There are an awful lot of shiny bare metal showing on them. Even the rear portion of the bolt looks like it's been scrubbed free of carbon. It looks like one of mine with 10K rounds on it.:confused: I hope the seller didn't play switcheroo with your new DDM4.
First thing I thought, too.
That BCG has been cycled, a lot.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 20:58
yes the top rails look worn. mine is brand new and has 500 rounds thru it and the parkerizing is still there
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 21:18
I think the picture is playing games on your eyes. It was not a gun w/ 10k rounds though it. Also, no wear on the rails.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 21:31
i think what he was trying to say was it looks used. there was a gun shop here in cincinnati that was accused of the employees taking the colt bcg and putting there lesser quality crap in its place. if top rails on your bcg are silver where there use to be parkerizing it has been shot
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 21:43
i think what he was trying to say was it looks used. there was a gun shop here in cincinnati that was accused of the employees taking the colt bcg and putting there lesser quality crap in its place. if top rails on your bcg are silver where there use to be parkerizing it has been shot
I understand what they are trying to say. I saying that the photos may make it look different. I have shot rounds down it and took the pictures today after I cleaned it. I think that might be some glare.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 21:45
yeah photos on the net can do that
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 21:46
I just took a look at it, it's closest to this picture is actual looks.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0010-2.jpg
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 21:56
them 2 silver strips on the left and right of the gas key are worn not trying to piss u off but the bcg looks like its been in a different gun that fired a few thousand rounds. just trying to inform you. if im wrong on the looks someone will let me know. but like said by 2 others it looks like they swapped bcg on ya. the parkerizing dd does takes at least 1000 rounds too were like that.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 21:56
but you still could be that guy that paid a few hundred thess than a new dd rifle for a bushy
dieselgeek
11-07-10, 21:59
them 2 silver strips on the left and right of the gas key are worn not trying to piss u off but the bcg looks like its been in a different gun that fired a few thousand rounds. just trying to inform you. if im wrong on the looks someone will let me know. but like said by 2 others it looks like they swapped bcg on ya. the parkerizing dd does takes at least 1000 rounds too were like that.
Well I'll send that picture to DD with my other email.
fivefivesix
11-07-10, 22:01
i would
RogerinTPA
11-07-10, 22:08
i think what he was trying to say was it looks used. there was a gun shop here in cincinnati that was accused of the employees taking the colt bcg and putting there lesser quality crap in its place. if top rails on your bcg are silver where there use to be parkerizing it has been shot
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. The BCG has a lot of rounds on it. Way too many to be "new". Someone swapped out there "used" for your "new" BCG. Lesson learned for shopping at gun shows, disassemble and inspect the whole thing prior to purchase. Since you already used it, you may have no recourse, just sayin...
jklaughrey
11-07-10, 22:11
Just saw your recent pictures. Shit like this just pisses me off. Shady ****ing dealers should be taken out back and beaten.
dieselgeek
11-08-10, 06:31
Emailed SOG and DD with pictures explaining what was going on. I hope to hear something soon.
RogerinTPA
11-08-10, 08:05
Emailed SOG and DD with pictures explaining what was going on. I hope to hear something soon.
As soon as you get the reply from DD, print it out and take your weapon back to the store, not gun show. Demand a new BCG or completely new DDM4. If they don't give you a completely new weapon, inside and out, file a complaint with BBB and a local news station. If no resolution, file a mechanic's lean on them for the price of a new BCG from Bravocompanyusa.:p
dieselgeek
11-08-10, 10:57
SOG has replied and we are exchanging emails at this moment. I sent them many pics of the BCG. Hoping this can be resolved quickly.
dieselgeek
11-08-10, 19:24
Here are the best pics I could get showing the wear on the rails.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0005-6.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0008-6.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0010-3.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0011-6.jpg
fivefivesix
11-08-10, 19:30
if you can take a pic of the cam pin . the pin that holds the bolt in the carrier
it looks like marks on it as well that only get there from firing
fivefivesix
11-08-10, 19:50
please keep us posted about what goes on. your barrel should have markings on it if its daniel defense but the rest of the gun looks legit
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/barrel
u can id what dd barrel u have
dieselgeek
11-08-10, 20:30
please keep us posted about what goes on. your barrel should have markings on it if its daniel defense but the rest of the gun looks legit
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/barrel
u can id what dd barrel u have
DD 4150 MP 5.56 NATO 1/7 the DD website says I should have
Barrel: Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16″ M4 Profile, Carbine Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate coated
Am I missing something, or do I also have the wrong barrel
fivefivesix
11-08-10, 20:37
what are the markings on the top of your barrel or is your rail in the way
for instance just behind the flash hider on the top mine is stamped 1x7 5.56 nato.
mines a button swaged chrome lined carbine
Belmont31R
11-08-10, 20:42
Unless that BCG had some odd machining, and just wore that much its not new even with a couple hundred rounds through it. The bottom wear the hammer rides against it doesn't look worn very much but some wear more than others there.
I have a BCG sitting on my desk that has over 3k through it, and has maybe a little more wear than that. Not much.
Pic of the bolt face?
:laugh:
I don't even go to gun shows any more! Haven't been in several years.
fivefivesix
11-08-10, 20:51
i quit going as the internet usually nets better deals and more trust worthy.
i quit going as the internet usually nets better deals and more trust worthy.
Indeed. And I can be around people equally as uninformed without paying for parking and some absurd entrance fee.
dieselgeek
11-08-10, 21:12
Indeed. And I can be around people equally as uninformed without paying for parking and some absurd entrance fee.
Most days I'd agree with you, but if you saw what I sold my bushmaster for:laugh:
RogerinTPA
11-08-10, 21:13
:laugh:
I don't even go to gun shows any more! Haven't been in several years.
Before I stopped going, it was for the beef jerky. You gotta miss the beef jerky....:p
dieselgeek
11-08-10, 21:15
Before I stopped going, it was for the beef jerky. You gotta miss the beef jerky....:p
Oh the Jerky !!SAMPLES!!
We have them in DFW almost every weekend. I was about to order my DD online and said.. Humm I'll just go see if they have any at the funshow. Looked online and sure enough... GUNSHOW NOV 6-7th.
im willin to offer up my services to all the members on here, and go check out how legit these guys are by inspecting a few rifles in store. i go to their store quite often, im willin to walk in and ask to check out a few rifles and break them down.
Ahh, gun shows... I quit going to the ones out here after an ND at one of the shows last year.
Gun Shows are good for two things now-a-days; people watching & Bulk GI Mags.
dieselgeek
11-09-10, 11:13
Ahh, gun shows... I quit going to the ones out here after an ND at one of the shows last year.
Wow, never seem that. No CHLs allowed at ours or any loaded weapons. I know that does not stop an ND.
dieselgeek
11-09-10, 14:04
Below is the reply from sog
"""""Here is a picture of a new DD B & C and a new Rock River. As you can see,
both are worn due to test firing from the factory. They have to make sure
that the rifle fires properly before shipping out. So this is really the
norm. You are going to see some wear on it. As you can see Rock River must
shoot more rounds for the test fire. It doesn't take much to wear down the
finish. I also have sent your pictures to Daniels, but they haven't gotten
back to me. """"
http://tapa.tk/mu/4b1f7cd8-a8ec-4a3d.jpghttp://tapa.tk/mu/4b1f7cd8-a8fa-8a0c.jpghttp://tapa.tk/mu/4b1f7cd8-a907-ca8d.jpghttp://tapa.tk/mu/4b1f7cd8-a91c-74d6.jpghttp://tapa.tk/mu/4b1f7cd8-a92b-5232.jpghttp://tapa.tk/mu/4b1f7cd8-a939-a790.jpg
dieselgeek
11-09-10, 16:47
Anyone able to see the pics. I'm using taptalk. Makes things hard to see
Ahhh.... your the goofball trolling the other thread. Now it all makes sense. :sarcastic:
So, SOG posts some pics of some used BCGs and calls it "normal" for a new gun?
The bottom of that one pic looks like a "qualification" whore in a basic training company's arms room.
Well, no surprise there, I guess.
Belmont31R
11-09-10, 20:49
I have one BCG with over 14k through it, and it doesn't have as much wear as that bottom left one. Not even close.
A test fire will result in some VERY slight wear. Not enough to cause bare shiny spots.
RogerinTPA
11-09-10, 20:49
Let us know when you get a response from Daniel Defense.
I could post photos if you need them but that is BS the BCG with bare shining marks from "test firing". I have one with 30 rounds through it and another with 2,000 and the wear is not anything like that. I doubt a test fire even requires 30 rounds.
jklaughrey
11-09-10, 20:59
You should have gotten your money back, period. Granted it is a nice rifle on the whole, but they lied, they swapped old parts for new. In this respect you overpaid and supported a shady business. By accepting this you have given them cause to do it again and again. I would go there tomorrow and demand a refund, or compensation either monetary or a new BCG and any other parts they rat ****ed and replaced with shit. Have you checked your FCG for excessive wear?
polymorpheous
11-09-10, 21:19
SOG stated that Rock River test fires their bolts.
I never heard this before.
OP I hope you get all of this straightened out.
dieselgeek
11-09-10, 21:34
I"m still waiting on a response from DD. I'm hoping to hear something soon.
jklaughrey
11-09-10, 21:52
The fact they even bring up RRA as a valid testing manufacturer should be a BIG :suicide2:RED FLAG!:suicide:
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 06:36
The fact they even bring up RRA as a valid testing manufacturer should be a BIG :suicide2:RED FLAG!:suicide:
Well this is turning into a shit festival.
I don't live in Houston, I live in Dallas I'm nervous about shipping the gun back to them as I paid cash and they could take weeks/ months to get around to it.
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 07:07
Also is there some info out there saying rock river does not test fire? Is test firing not common?
Also is there some info out there saying rock river does not test fire? Is test firing not common?
Depends on the company we are talking about. DD will proof and test fire. Rock River I would not be so sure about.
sell it on TOS ;), start again.
jklaughrey
11-10-10, 08:24
But you were sold a lie! It happens to all of us at some point.
UsnRoberts
11-10-10, 08:48
I think the rifle looks nice. Let me know if you go to sell it.
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 09:41
But you were sold a lie! It happens to all of us at some point.
Okay, I was sold a lie. I get 13mpg I could drive to Houston and take care of it. I could ship it and have to "trust" them again to ship it back. My options pretty much suck.
Belmont31R
11-10-10, 09:56
Okay, I was sold a lie. I get 13mpg I could drive to Houston and take care of it. I could ship it and have to "trust" them again to ship it back. My options pretty much suck.
I would just call DD, and talk to a live person. Send that person the photos SOG sent you, and tell them thats what SOG is pawning off on people as being "new" BCG's.
Why do would you need to send the upper back to SOG unless you want a different upper? And besides you already shot the gun so its kinda yours now.
jklaughrey
11-10-10, 10:05
Damn what are you driving a Bradley? LOL buy a Honda. J/k. Yeah you shot it, so it is yours technically, but it was sold to you on the premise as being something it wasn't. Did you sign a disclosure/waiver agreement as the item being sold "as is" and cannot be returned? If not you have some recourse. But I would not ship it to them. Either sell it, probably at a loss because you are honest and will price accordingly, or wait and then drive their after an agreement has been reached via phone with SOG based upon what DD says and the pictures you have in comparison. Either way it is a bad situation. Only other option is say **** it, buy a new BCG, keep that one as a spare and let everyone know that SOG sucks sweat laden donkey scrote, and file a complaint with the BBB.
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 10:05
I just called DD. They are awesome. They are going to ship me a new BCG today. I can't say how good that feels. It took 1 phone call and about 2 min of my time. Thumbs up to DD
You could always borrow a car that gets better gas mileage or have a friend with a car that gets better mileage drive you for gas money. Or take a city bus (If they have those routes?)
Sucks you got lied to & received old components, but next time I bet you check all things out first. A good lesson to learn early on in the gun buying market.
I would have a compentent gun smith or friend who is knowledgeable on the M4/AR platform look it over thouroughly before taking it/shipping it to SOG for any replacements; you may save yourself future headaches.
Hope it all works out for you; I would let DD know about your disatisfaction with SOG so they can re-think selling to them (If SOG is a DD distrubutor that is?).
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 10:14
I just called DD. They are awesome. They are going to ship me a new BCG today. *I can't say how good that feels. *It took 1 phone call and about 2 min of my time. Thumbs up to DD
RogerinTPA
11-10-10, 10:17
That's awesome news! I'd still fire off a letter of complaint against that company, suspecting that some employee swapped parts.
jklaughrey
11-10-10, 10:22
Now keep the old one and buy a rebuild kit for it and it should be relegated to a spare. Like THC said have a competent "smith" look it over to check for other "worn" parts like say FCG components.
jklaughrey
11-10-10, 10:24
Roger I would suspect that that swapping parts at SOG is common practice, perhaps even the norm for their operation. Along with lies and deceit.
I just called DD. They are awesome. They are going to ship me a new BCG today. *I can't say how good that feels. *It took 1 phone call and about 2 min of my time. Thumbs up to DD
Sounds about right; DD's CS is the best I have yet to encounter; guns or otherwise. They are truly a great company; a throwback to when cutomer service was king and a quality product was priority numero uno.
Thats awesome! Now just to make sure all the other parts in the gun aren't exchanges; I would do that first thing to make sure you don't have a used/inferior FCG or the like. I'm sure DD willt take care of you, so be thorough in evaluating the other parts of the rifle to be sure what you have.
Always nice to see a good ending to these stories.:)
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 10:25
Sounds about right; DD's CS is the best I have yet to encounter; guns or otherwise. They are truly a great company; a throwback to when cutomer service was king and a quality product was priority numero uno.
Thats awesome! Now just to make sure all the other parts in the gun aren't exchanges; I would do that first thing to make sure you don't have a used/inferior FCG or the like. I'm sure DD willt take care of you, so be thorough in evaluating the other parts of the rifle to be sure what you have.
Always nice to see a good ending to these stories.:)
They are sending an RMA for the old one. They have a customer for life here!
RogerinTPA
11-10-10, 11:01
Roger I would suspect that that swapping parts at SOG is common practice, perhaps even the norm for their operation. Along with lies and deceit.
No doubt. If it were me, I'd make a sign stating as such, and protest their booth at the next gun show.:sarcastic:
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 12:03
""""Ryan,
Thank you for choosing Daniel Defense and our rifles. We appreciate your business. I am sorry that you bought your rifle under the pretences that it was a midlength gas system rifle. From the description that you provided, you bought a DDM4, Version 1, which has a carbine length gas system and an Omega X 12.0 FSP extended free float rail system.
Thank you very much for the images you provided. The BCG does look to have excessive ware. We function test each rifle with 10 rounds before it leaves the factory but your bolt should not be showing this kind of wear already. We will be more than happy to exchange it for you. We can issue you a Return Authorization Number and send you a call tag so that you can return the Bolt Carrier Group. Upon receipt we will send you a new one at no cost to you. If you would like to proceed with this, please let me know. We will need your shipping address and telephone number to execute the return.
Semper Fi,
Joe Marler""""
""""Ryan,
Thank you for choosing Daniel Defense and our rifles. We appreciate your business. I am sorry that you bought your rifle under the pretences that it was a midlength gas system rifle. From the description that you provided, you bought a DDM4, Version 1, which has a carbine length gas system and an Omega X 12.0 FSP extended free float rail system.
Thank you very much for the images you provided. The BCG does look to have excessive ware. We function test each rifle with 10 rounds before it leaves the factory but your bolt should not be showing this kind of wear already. We will be more than happy to exchange it for you. We can issue you a Return Authorization Number and send you a call tag so that you can return the Bolt Carrier Group. Upon receipt we will send you a new one at no cost to you. If you would like to proceed with this, please let me know. We will need your shipping address and telephone number to execute the return.
Semper Fi,
Joe Marler""""
Joe's a good guy; he's helped me out on several occassions. Just be very sure that the other parts in your rifle are true DD, and truly NEW parts before moving forward with DD; you may need them to replace more than the BCG if SOG replaced any other parts with fud used ones...
I would very seriously inspect every single part of the rifle before moving forward.
Honestly, I would just go to SOG and demand a refund and give my $ to a real business, not some scammers; but I would definitly boycott the shit out of SOG if I were you; tell everyone with ears that will listen about that shit; thats just terrible business. Especially considering the fact they tried to pull the wool over your eyes a second time and say "look at this RRA blah blah blah..." bullshit. You called them on their lies and they have the nerve to continue down the path of lies? That RRA bolt is worn to the tune of thousands of rounds, not 30. That is seriously f'd up in my book!
I would be at that shop every day for the next month speaking with every single potential customer about their less than ethical business practices.
At this point, i would call SOG and demand my money back from them. If that didnt work, begin procedures with the harris country DA to file charges if possible. If the DA wont do anything about it, talk to BATFE and see if they will help you out. If they did it to yo, theyve done it to others...
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 12:24
Also, thanks for all the help guys!
xbmxracerx
11-10-10, 15:42
+1
Joe and Larry are great guys!
Sounds about right; DD's CS is the best I have yet to encounter; guns or otherwise. They are truly a great company; a throwback to when cutomer service was king and a quality product was priority numero uno.
Thats awesome! Now just to make sure all the other parts in the gun aren't exchanges; I would do that first thing to make sure you don't have a used/inferior FCG or the like. I'm sure DD willt take care of you, so be thorough in evaluating the other parts of the rifle to be sure what you have.
Always nice to see a good ending to these stories.:)
...but I would definitly boycott the shit out of SOG if I were you...
I've now got this story posted on two Houston message boards and one Texas message board.
well SOG was my home store, now who do i go to? im in south houston, and i need to know some other places that have good rep and build quality AR rifles.
I've now got this story posted on two Houston message boards and one Texas message board.
good, anytime I tried to warn people the fanboys jumped me :D
I'll go back ya up ;)
fivefivesix
11-10-10, 18:11
great dieselgeek im glad you were taken care of. thats why i chose daniel defense. im glad so many other members jumped in with me so i didnt look like the only one telling you, youre were had.
jmlshooter
11-10-10, 18:38
Something you should consider, diesel, is that you may have a claim under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act. I would consider making a demand on SOG Armory for a partial refund.
DaBears_85
11-10-10, 18:51
That's awesome news! I'd still fire off a letter of complaint against that company, suspecting that some employee swapped parts.
Something you should consider, diesel, is that you may have a claim under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act. I would consider making a demand on SOG Armory for a partial refund.
You should also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
RogerinTPA
11-10-10, 18:58
well SOG was my home store, now who do i go to? im in south houston, and i need to know some other places that have good rep and build quality AR rifles.
How about online purchases from say, um....one of our vendors? Like bravocompanyusa or G&RTactical perhaps?
You have satisfaction guaranteed when dealing with them and great companies to deal with.
dieselgeek
11-10-10, 19:22
great dieselgeek im glad you were taken care of. thats why i chose daniel defense. im glad so many other members jumped in with me so i didnt look like the only one telling you, youre were had.
I really want to thank all of you. If not for your eyes I would of been shamed. Now with the power of the internet, many others will know that SOG can suck it.
Code7inoaktown
11-10-10, 19:29
I know people complain about the company logos on uppers and BCG's etc, but I wonder if it's because of this kind of crap that forced them to do so.
I guess the lesson is to shop only at reputable vendors.
jklaughrey
11-10-10, 19:41
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33566
all about those cheesedick rat****s SOG
I would be 1/2 tempted to send the whole gun to DD for their evaluation.
Bob
jklaughrey
11-10-10, 21:15
I bet DD would be more than happy to assess the rifle. I wonder does anyone know if SOG is an authorized dealer? If so they need their DD vendor status pulled.
This thread served two purposes -
Went to the Ft. Worth show with my father on Sunday, he's been eyeing the SOG rifles for a while (they do have a nice display for them compared to other dealers). I'd never been impressed with them for the prices, but that was mostly irrelevant to him - mentioned the shenanigans referred to in this thread and their general rep. Pretty sure he'll never buy anything from SOG now.
About to place an order through smartgunner.com for a midlength DD upper. I was on the fence between BCM and DD, but this example of DD's customer service pushed me to go that way. I'll let BCM have my dollars when I'm ready for a SBR.
I am glad you called DD. I've exchanged emails with Joe a few times. He is squared away. It is good to hear they are taking care of hou.
How about online purchases from say, um....one of our vendors? Like bravocompanyusa or G&RTactical perhaps?
You have satisfaction guaranteed when dealing with them and great companies to deal with.
which is probally what i will be doing, but, being new to AR's, im building one from the ground up, and i am for sure going to need help assembling, as i have no idea what im doing.
dieselgeek
11-11-10, 09:36
which is probally what i will be doing, but, being new to AR's, im building one from the ground up, and i am for sure going to need help assembling, as i have no idea what im doing.
That deal on Smartgunner is awesome, you can build your upper and your lower. Then they just ship it to you!
Hind sight ( always 20/20) I should of been a lil patient and done that.
$$$$ bills in your hand makes you do strange things.
well SOG was my home store, now who do i go to? im in south houston, and i need to know some other places that have good rep and build quality AR rifles.
Internet!
gandrtactical.com
adcofirearms.com
rainierarms.com
jklaughrey
11-11-10, 11:17
I know nothing about them but they are a B&M establishment as well internet sales. They are in Houston. Again if anyone has info about them them please add. But personally I would do what 500gr said and go through the above vendors.
http://www.texastacticalgear.com/index.php
dieselgeek
11-15-10, 08:00
Should be getting my BCG today!!! I'll report back when I get home. Thread was closed on GT nothing was heated and no reason was given.
dieselgeek
11-15-10, 08:35
Dupe post
dieselgeek
11-15-10, 20:12
How great that feels!!
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0004-1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0003-5.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/DSC_0002-4.jpg
Grumpy MSG
11-15-10, 20:16
I know people complain about the company logos on uppers and BCG's etc, but I wonder if it's because of this kind of crap that forced them to do so.
I guess the lesson is to shop only at reputable vendors.
SOG apparently is reputable, just not the kind of reputation most people and businesses want:rolleyes:
RogerinTPA
11-15-10, 20:20
I'm glad things worked out for you and DD squared you away with a new BCG.:cool:
.
FYI, I've seen SOG setup at gun shows as far East as Baton Rouge and New Orleans. They generally, run two shows a weekend and they told me they go into Oklahoma and New Mexico.
So, it seems this swapping parts gig must be pretty profitable. :sad:
But they do have an impressive display of guns and parts but their prices are high. I wished they lived close to me, so I could look at their stuff and then go buy it online from Grant.
.
fivefivesix
11-15-10, 21:07
nice lookin bcg. that one looks new. :)
fivefivesix
11-15-10, 21:11
well sog has been caught, so lets hope it at least makes them honest. but profit can make people do dumb things.
installing used bcg in new rifles and then you have a new bcg to sell for 150 more, on top of there high prices. there are people in this world that feel the more they spend the better off they will be,
dieselgeek
11-16-10, 05:23
.
FYI, I've seen SOG setup at gun shows as far East as Baton Rouge and New Orleans. They generally, run two shows a weekend and they told me they go into Oklahoma and New Mexico.
So, it seems this swapping parts gig must be pretty profitable. :sad:
But they do have an impressive display of guns and parts but their prices are high. I wished they lived close to me, so I could look at their stuff and then go buy it online from Grant.
.
I'm sure that's what draws a lot of people in.
It is great to hear DD stepped up to the plate and took care of you.
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