View Full Version : Would you recommend an AR type firearm for HD
I'm trying to decide if I should use an AR as a primary weapon for home defensive purposes (live in a house). Should I get a AR pistol, an SBR or 16"? Would a 20" M16 clone work?
Thanks for your comments and opinions.
Can't beat an AR platform for home defense and area defense -imo
Check out some of the light wt threads around here for ideas
SBR might be ideal for your needs but a 14.5 middie with a permanent
brake on it might also be good
I'd say forget a pistol version the carbine platform with stock much
more stable and with a good flashlight and red dot optic
Also take a look at the 300 AAC Blackout that is being developed by
AAC & Remington nice numbers out of a 9" barrel
Main thing is to accurately ascertain your needs and then shop for
gear & training appropriate to those needs.
Here is a neat little light wt built for my wife...not quite finished yet
but she finds it quite handy...just to give you an idea of what's out there
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk253/9DivDoc/IMG_0006-1.jpg
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk253/9DivDoc/IMG_0002-4.jpg
Mega Upper & Bravo Company lower
Bravo Company 14.5 Mid Length gassed light wt Cr lined barrel
1.5 Battle Comp permanently attached by ADCO
11.0 Troy Extreme Battlerail KG Koted foliage green by ADCO
Streamlight TLR-1 (flashlight)
Aimpoint Micro on a LaRue TActical mount (LT-751)
Magpul MOE front pistol grip in foliage green)
Magpul 20 rd Pmag with Ranger plate in foliage green)
Magpul enhanced Al trigger guard
Tango down pistol grip in foliage green
VLTOR I-Mod collapsible stock in foliage green
BCM bolt carrier group
LMT enhanced charging handle
Have a Blue Force Vickers Tactical sling for it
Waiting on Magpul BUIS
locknload223
11-06-10, 18:48
My AR would be my last choice for HD. Can you imagine firing an AR much less SBR's AR in your stairwell or hallway? Now imagine the blood dripping from your ears as you try to hear if there are any other intruders. Reminds me of last week's 'The Walking Dead' on AMC when the deputy fires the .357 inside a tank. Ouch.
Seriously though, as much as I love my Colt, my first choice is a pistol. Small, compact, and I can keep it close to my body while navigating my halls and doorways.
That said, if there was a situation where I knew multiple intruders were entering my home then I may have to change my plans a bit.
I think an AR would be a terrible choice of home defense weapon, unless we're talking about zombies coming up the front walk. Inside the home, I'd want something far more maneuverable than a rifle, even an SBR. The only advantage I can see would be magazine capacity, and I just can't see a home defense situation that would need 30 rounds to resolve. Certainly not enough of an advantage to outweigh the maneuverability and ease/safety of storage of typical handgun.
My ar is my hd gun. They seem to be used by LE and MIL for CQC applications and work well. Maneuvering doesnt seem like a big problem for me until the bad guy would be at arms reach. If it gets that close and i cant fire the gun im gonna start biting fingers off anyway.
As far as noise i dont get the issue inside a handgun and an AR sound the same to me, deafening. Probably wouldnt even hear it to begin with anyway
My AR would be my last choice for HD. Can you imagine firing any centerfire weapon in your stairwell or hallway? Now imagine the blood dripping from your ears as you try to hear if there are any other intruders. Reminds me of last week's 'The Walking Dead' on AMC when the deputy fires the .357 inside a tank. Ouch.
Seriously though, as much as I love my Colt, my first choice is a pistol. Small, compact, and I can keep it close to my body while navigating my halls and doorways.
That said, if there was a situation where I knew multiple intruders were entering my home then I may have to change my plans a bit.
Anything is going to permanently damage your hearing indoors.
I use an AR as my primary HD firearm because I can quickly get good hits with the 30 very effective rounds I have on board. The aimpoint H1 and surefire x300 mean target ID in less than ideal light won't be a problem. With some practice, long gun retention is orders of magnitude easier than handgun retention.
mrjinglesusa
11-06-10, 19:35
No.
Shotgun with 00 buck.
ursus.peracto
11-06-10, 19:43
AR for HD is a no-go.
Shotgun and 00 buck like the guy above.
Simple question, simple answer.
Heartbreaker
11-06-10, 20:10
An AR with some 75gr TAP is the best option period. Lethality is on par with buckshot, it fragments through walls so is less likely to overpenetrate through barriers than a shotgun or a handgun, and unlike a pump shotgun you won't short stroke it under stress. You can point a long gun faster and more accurately under stress than a handgun, and you don't lose much maneuverability. If you look at people who are clearing rooms in combat or LEO roles shotguns and handgun use is extremely limited, 9/10 times they will be using their carbine. And lastly, no, the sound of chambering a round in your Mossberg 500 is not enough to deter an intruder.
No.
Shotgun with 00 buck.
Poor choice.
C4
AR for HD is a no-go.
Shotgun and 00 buck like the guy above.
Simple question, simple answer.
Incorrect. Here is a clue, what gun do you see SWAT teams using?
C4
I'm trying to decide if I should use an AR as a primary weapon for home defensive purposes (live in a house). Should I get a AR pistol, an SBR or 16"? Would a 20" M16 clone work?
Thanks for your comments and opinions.
Not enough info.
What is your skill level? Who else is in house? how close are neighbors? etc.
I would definitely rule out an AR Pistol though.
I use shotguns, AR & Pistols for HD.
Heartbreaker you have detailed all the reasons I've found to support my decision. I wish I had a copy of a picture in which Clint Smith is standing right next to a guy holding a handgun at arms length. It was to show that they where practically the same length. I've never shot a gun indoors but I have (a G30) inside a car and even with earplugs AND earmuffs the sound would make my ears ring.
Incorrect. Here is a clue, what gun do you see SWAT teams using?
C4
I agree with the fact that an AR is good to go for HD.
I would disagree with doing something because a SWAT team does it.
PJ
I think I'm going to call this thread "The Ludicrous Thread".
mmm, much ludicrousishness here, mmm, yeah...
I agree with the fact that an AR is good to go for HD.
I would disagree with doing something because a SWAT team does it.
PJ
I didn't say do EVERYTHING SWAT teams do. ;)
C4
Not enough info.
1) What is your skill level?
A=Trained some with ARs and handguns
2) Who else is in house?
A=Wife, three teens and a five y.o., all girls
3) how close are neighbors?
A= Gosh don't have the exact length but it's your normal distance in a neighborhood. Not a suburb or ranch.
I'm answering above under your questions.
Incorrect. Here is a clue, what gun do you see SWAT teams using?
C4
SWAT teams are generally highly trained professionals, operating in an offensive mode. This is completely different from the not highly trained amateur in a defensive situation.
One of the biggest mistakes I see gun owners make is emulating LEOs or Military without knowing why they use what they use. 99% of the time what an LEO uses is because of financial constraints, not because it is the best tool to be used.
If you look at HD shootings across the US over the past few decades, you will see just about anything works, provided you can put it on target. It tends to get back to the basics - have a gun, only hits count, make hits early, etc.
11.5" BCM SBR with a light and Aimpoint.
I'm answering above under your questions.
Wow that is a lot of folks. Your Action Plan is far more important than your gun choice. Lots of issues. If your teens cannot be trusted with a loaded gun in the house, a handgun might be a lot easier to keep locked up when not in use. Getting a long arm in & out of the safe each night can be a hassle. However an AR/SBR with silencer would work really well also. I would avoid anything really long like a 20 inch AR, but if that is what you have it will work.
Use what you are most comfortable with, not what someone says you should use. If you have more experience with a handgun, then that is your goto.
Stress does funny things to people, they forget stuff, they don't think, they react off of instinct. If 90% of your shooting experience is with a pump shotgun, then you'd be a fool to use another weapon in a defensive situation, stick to what you know and your muscles know so you can use it without having to think about how it works.
For me, I have easily 20x the ammount of rounds downrange with a pistol than I do a rifle, so that's what sits ready. 22 round mag in the pistol, with an extra 22 round mag standing by. Figure that's enough 9mm to take care of just about any problem that may arise, or at least get them to keep thier heads down so I can go for a long gun.
No.
Shotgun with 00 buck.
Holy shit! The ARFcom retards are invading!!! :rolleyes:
Anyone who owns an AR and locks it up at night in favor of a bird gun is nothing short of ****ING RETARDED!!!
Holy shit! The ARFcom retards are invading!!! :rolleyes:
Anyone who owns an AR and locks it up at night in favor of a bird gun is nothing short of ****ING RETARDED!!!
So, if someone grew up shooting shotguns and has 20+ years of experience with them, they should set them aside for an AR that they have owned for a month or they are ****ing retarded?
There are no absolutes, there are not one size fits all answers, it is not a black and white world. Pull your head out and think before posting crap.
Bird gun is an absolute. 20 years of stupidity doesn't make a CQB winner. As Grant posted. You don't see any Tac team in the modern world deploying with a ****ing bird gun. Go back to ARF with that stupid shit.
SWAT teams are generally highly trained professionals, operating in an offensive mode. This is completely different from the not highly trained amateur in a defensive situation.
One of the biggest mistakes I see gun owners make is emulating LEOs or Military without knowing why they use what they use. 99% of the time what an LEO uses is because of financial constraints, not because it is the best tool to be used.
If you look at HD shootings across the US over the past few decades, you will see just about anything works, provided you can put it on target. It tends to get back to the basics - have a gun, only hits count, make hits early, etc.
Absolutely. Offensive mode and as an interdependent and mutually supportive team, with equipment that most homeowners aren't going to take the time to put on.
Obviously any gun you own can be a home defense gun. But I like and use an AR for HD along with a Glock.
But if you want a good HD AR, I would go with a SBR with iron sights, a light, and a suppressor.
Magic_Salad0892
11-06-10, 20:59
I'm sure markm was assuming all variables equal. The tool is better for the job at hand than the other one mentioned.
markm knows what he's talking about.
Bird gun is an absolute. As Grant posted. You don't see any Tac team in the modern world deploying with a ****ing bird gun. Go back to ARF with that stupid shit.
I'm willing to bet that not many here are part of any "tac team", so that arguement is moot. People have successfully defended themselves and their homes with .22's, it's been doccumented. Use what you are comfortable with and have the most experience with, even if it's a friggin spear and a shield. Something is better than nothing, and if you know how to use it then it's a lot better than a weapon you are unfamilliar with and unsure about using. Practice, practice, practice, and if your choice calms down the cool guys, then more power to ya.
MrMilspecer
11-06-10, 21:01
Well my Kimber 45.acp is loaded w/ hollowpoints and 2 extra full mags is on my side of the bed. The wife has a .380 auto loaded extra mag. The boy gets a .410:sarcastic: and our pitbull is always hungry. And I guess im one of those tards that locks up there M4.
People have successfully defended themselves and their homes with .22's, it's been doccumented.
and people have climbed everest without oxygen.......
doesnt mean its a good idea.
Dont really get the point of this thread as the whole theme of m4c is defensive/offensive use of the AR. But as long as you have a reliable AR with a good light and have practiced shooting it, it definitely seems a better choice than a shotgun or pistol. Especially when considering the effect of the 5.56 vs buck or pistol rounds. Check out the terminal ballistics and training & tactics subforums.
Quiet-Matt
11-06-10, 21:10
I absolutely assign the role of HD to my favorite 14.5" carbine. I EDC a pistol because I can't EDC a AR. When I'm home the pistol goes in and the AR comes out. I'm faster and better with the rifle. The Aimpoint and Surefire make threat I.D. easier than the 3 tiny glowing dots on my Glock, and the 30 rounds of 5.56 will get the job done, and I can use it as a beatin' stick if I need to.
SWAT teams are generally highly trained professionals, operating in an offensive mode. This is completely different from the not highly trained amateur in a defensive situation.
One of the biggest mistakes I see gun owners make is emulating LEOs or Military without knowing why they use what they use. 99% of the time what an LEO uses is because of financial constraints, not because it is the best tool to be used.
If you look at HD shootings across the US over the past few decades, you will see just about anything works, provided you can put it on target. It tends to get back to the basics - have a gun, only hits count, make hits early, etc.
The best weapon to use for HD is on the one you train wih the MOST. That means, actually getting professional training on said weapon.
With that said, when you compare reliability, accuracy, capacity and penetration, there is on clear winner.
I have a HG closest to me at all times. It's purpose is to fight my way to my SBR.
C4
So, if someone grew up shooting shotguns and has 20+ years of experience with them, they should set them aside for an AR that they have owned for a month or they are ****ing retarded?
There are no absolutes, there are not one size fits all answers, it is not a black and white world. Pull your head out and think before posting crap.
As someone that grew up "hunting" with a shotgun and ran the SKEET range for years at a local gun club, the answer is no.
In order to run a shotgun effectively in confined spaces (like a home), one first needs some sort of room clearing experience/training.
Having attended a shotgun school, cleared rooms and watched all the other students clear rooms, I can tell you that under the stress of paper targets, the majority of the students created malfunctions in their pump shotguns. Some so severe that that they had to disassemble their gun. Many others through pellets off targets at close ranges.
While being comfortable with a shotgun and having loggged many hours in shoot houses, I can honestly saw that a SG would be third on my list as a HD tool.
C4
Really? Do we really need to go there? This has been discussed so often. Anything short of a .22 fired indoors is going to jack up your hearing. Pistol, rifle or shotgun. Will a shotgun work? Absolutely. Is it my first choice? No. I keep the G19 next to the bed and the suppressed SBR.
There are serious considerations of over penetration with shotguns (slugs and 00 buck.) And anyone who recommends "bird shot" seriously needs their heads examined.
With an AR you will get a weapon that will put someone down quickly when loaded with the right stuff. And there is less chance of over penetration.
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