A lot of Rounds? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

Travelingchild

11-06-10, 19:25

Curious I have a SW 1911 pd Scandium frame. What is considered alot of rounds down an alloy frame 1911?

Mine is two years old coming up on 10 thousand rounds..
Replaced recoil spring at 4 thousand, was have failure to return to battery.
Recently my mag. release button broke. S&W mailed me a new one at n/c.
This gun shoots everything from WWB to my own wadcutter reloads reliably, an I use it during IDPA.

So in a similar time frame 2 years what is considered "alot" of rounds before things might start malfuctioning requireing replacement or breaking?
For Alloy framed 1911s?

Irish10

11-06-10, 19:46

My 1st S&W 1911 (own five) is close to 17k rounds without a single failure. This gun was upgraded with a EGW sear, disco, hammer and angle barrel bushing but in terms of frame wear it's as good as day one and I expect to get many more rounds out of it. I may replace the barrel with a Kart kit when it hits 20k - 22k but for now she still runs as good as day one. One of my Gunsite Commanders is also past 12k and like the other the frame/slide are still as good as new. I don't know much about metals but from what I have seen the scandium framed S&Ws seem to wear much better than the other lightweight alloys (with the exception of titanium maybe). Regarding springs I change my recoil springs religously at 1k round intervals.

Travelingchild

11-07-10, 06:29

One of my Gunsite Commanders is also past 12k and like the other the frame/slide are still as good as new. I don't kno

Time frame? is that one year? or 6 years at 3thou. per year..

Round count to malfunctions/breakage is meaningless unless comparing similar usage.

Chuck

11-07-10, 13:37

:confused:
What does the 'time frame' have to do with parts breakage?

"Time frame? is that one year? or 6 years at 3thou. per year..
Round count to malfunctions/breakage is meaningless unless comparing similar usage."

Does the gun 'rest' between shooting sessions?

:)

Travelingchild

11-07-10, 17:34

:confused:

Does the gun 'rest' between shooting sessions?

:)
No, but wouldn't shooting 500 rds a session, induce a different type of wear? as opposed to shooting the same 500 rds over a larger time span...?

I recall a video m4 test where the firearm was fired no stop till the barrel drooped..
Take the same amount of rounds over a 5 year period would the results be the same?
I guess i should also have asked about cleaning & lubrication intervals also.
Just curious..

Chuck

11-07-10, 17:43

"No, but wouldn't shooting 500 rds a session, induce a different type of wear? as opposed to shooting the same 500 rds over a larger time span...?"

No.

willowofwisp

11-08-10, 13:58

skyugo

11-09-10, 01:37

500 rounds isn't a large enough number IMO...now if you said shooting 10,000 rounds in one range session versus over 30 range sessions then i think their coudl be a difference but I am a chemist not a metallurgist so i can't say for sure

I'd say cleaning and lubrication would be the biggest factors...
10k with no lube is definitely more wear than 500 followed by a decent clean/lube job 20 times.

As far as heat goes, i'd say the gun would get too hot to hold before you'd trash the barrel due to heat buildup. Unless you're wearing oven mitts and trying to break it.....

willowofwisp

11-09-10, 07:14

I'd say cleaning and lubrication would be the biggest factors...
10k with no lube is definitely more wear than 500 followed by a decent clean/lube job 20 times.

As far as heat goes, i'd say the gun would get too hot to hold before you'd trash the barrel due to heat buildup. Unless you're wearing oven mitts and trying to break it.....

wait you don't have tacticool oven mitts?

Chris60119

11-09-10, 11:34

skyugo

11-09-10, 15:49

wait you don't have tacticool oven mitts?

as a P7 shooter, i actually do bring mechanix gloves to the range with me.... :D seriously.

skyugo

11-09-10, 15:52

What about firing rounds one right after another? Lets say you have 3 clips and a friend is loading them as you shoot. Is it bad to continusly put rounds through your gun like that? I know metal expands when it gets hot.

heating steel up to 300-400 degrees is virtually meaningless. This little chart here shows teh formation of various crystalline structures. note the temperatures on the left side column (degrees C)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Steel_pd.svg/420px-Steel_pd.svg.png

the very inner surface of the barrel may get near these temperatures, which will eventually erode it out, but that will take a LONG time to hurt accuracy on a combat handgun.

Chris60119

11-10-10, 01:32

Your chart is way above my brian powers..

Travelingchild

11-10-10, 07:02

So as the original poster, Let me modify my question

Given proper Care.

What is considered "Alot" of rounds through a alloy framed 1911 platform before thing's might begin breaking?

Or Should I :Simply, Show up(at the range or class), Shut up and Shoot the firearm till something breaks and worry about it at that time.

skyugo

11-10-10, 13:51

I seem to recall hearing 15k was getting up there in an alloy 1911, they're certainly not as long lasting as steel. S&W has great customer service, so i'm sure they'll take care of you if anything does go.

given that the 1911 frame dimensions are based on the strength of steel ,and that there isn't much room to add extra aluminum to make up the strength difference, you end up with a weaker frame.
aluminum tends to crack outright when overstressed or fatigued, rather than yield like steel does.

so keep an eye out for cracks. keeping a good recoil spring in it should help mitigate problems.

SHIVAN

11-10-10, 14:21

Single gun ammo budget of $2300+ per year? :eek:

300WM

11-11-10, 20:52

You may have to spend another 3000.00 on ammo before you get an answer, even if you get an answer then. Although aluminum has good qualities in that it can get hot and cool over and over without ill effects, it can crack under stress without getting hot or cold, where metal will bend. Using +P ammo in your aluminum frame pistol will speed up this process. Why not just carry the aluminum frame pistol and use a metal frame for the range. IMO, 10,000 is getting close, but I do not believe 5000 rds per year has anything to do with it, unless you do it all in one session. It is 100 rds per weekend with 2 weeks off for great shooting and reliability.

mkmckinley

11-11-10, 21:43

If it makes you feel any better the addition of scandium supposedly helps the aluminum resist cracking. S&W has .357 magnum revolvers made out of it. I think it will last a little longer than a normal aluminum frame. On the bright side its a Smith and Wesson, just shoot it and if it breaks call them and they'll send you a box to put it in and ship it back. On a side not the Russians made MiG-29's out of scandium-aluminum alloy. Good stuff.

Travelingchild

11-12-10, 08:14

Why not just carry the aluminum frame pistol and use a metal frame for the range..
Because at that time it was pretty much all I had, but now that I have a EB SF I've begun shooting that more..

300WM

11-13-10, 07:59

Mo_Zam_Beek

11-13-10, 11:58

A) Relax

B) 10k on that is not a big deal

C) A big deal is your LW frame develops gouges or cracks - when that happens? There is no rhyme or reason to this b/c every "I heard / I saw" on the internet is based on some other person's maintenance schedule / mag choice ect.

D) As for parts breaking - that is apples and oranges to concerns of the frame / slide barrel. If you are concerned about round count and parts - send it off the Chuck (if he can squeeze you in) and have the internals replaced with some Wilson BP's or whatever your flavor is.

E) I would not use CM style split metal followers in an LW

Not that it is an apples to apples comparison - one of my steel governments is a little over 50k rounds now with no parts breakages or other problems. I am more than confident that I will get at least 125k out of the frame and slide as long as I keep changing springs and don't destroy the breach face.

Good luck

Irish10

11-13-10, 13:18

I'll try to respond to your question about "timeframe" on this particular gun. My average sessions at the range run 300 - 500 rounds with the most fired on a single day maybe 700 (reloads). I am very anal about taking care of my guns so they are cleaned/oiled after every range session and completely stripped, inspected and cleaned at approx every 3k rounds. I think your worrying too much, just run the crap out of the gun and if you have issues contact S&W for a prepaid shipping label and let them take care of it. They are guaranteed for life so why worry but if you swap out any parts like I did keep the originals and put them back in before sending the gun to S&W for two reasons, first the aftermarket parts may invalidate the warranty if they are determined to be the reason for the "problem" and second S&W has a habit of replacing any aftermarket parts with originals and not returning what they took out. This has been mentioned on a few forums so whether or not it's true or net BS remains to be seen but why take the chance ?

DBZ220

11-16-10, 15:28

I had a alloy framed 1911 from Springfield let go right under 5k. Frame cracked by the dust cover. Minor and didn't affect function. First gen Kimber CDP died around slide catch lever hole somewhere around 3500rnds. Those were my last runs with aluminum framed 1911s.
I've heard the Scandium models should be much more durable, so 10k shouldn't be much concern. Plus S&W has excellent customer service if you'd ever have a problem. Just keep up on spring/parts maintenance and watch for feed ramp errosion issues pending what style magazines you use.

CAVDOC

12-19-10, 10:18

round count to a significant issue with a alloy frame usually develops in the 30k range. scandium being a stronger alloy should be tougher- run her to 100 k and let us know how she's holding up