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jared91
11-06-10, 20:45
hi guys, im new to the AR scene, and im wantin to build my very first AR. i have my buttstock and lower reciever picked out, (ace soccom and spikes tactical, with a timnney single stage trigger) but i would like some advice on what other parts i should go with. my main concerns are:
1. budget (freshman in college) lets go with 1300 reasonably.
2. reliability and function (i dont want a super super finnicky high maintanence rifle)
3. caliber. 5.56 or .308? are multi cal lowers able to fire 556 and 308 if you change the uppers out?
4. barrel brand and length. i THINK i want a 22 inch.
5. optics.


any and all suggestions will be appreciated. im lookin for somethin i can reach out to to 500+ yds if applicable with above guidelines. thanks for all your help guys!

Meplat
11-07-10, 00:03
First off, welcome to M4C! Second, for your budget and build, I would skip out on the ACE stock and just go with a regular carbine receiver extension and a simpler, cheaper stock. It will save you money on your build overall, and frankly I'm not too big of a fan of that particular stock as it limits your options and configurations for other stocks, slings, etc. I also suggest you stick to a regular trigger before you unnecessarily upgrade to any fancy match trigger. Find out how well you shoot with a normal trigger and thoroughly learn and practice trigger control before anything else and only then should you look at upgrades. That by itself will make a world of improvement in your shooting long before any trigger will. The skill and experience of a shooter dictate the quality of his shooting long before his gear ever will. If you don't have the fundamentals and experience before the fancy gear, you're wasting your money in my opinion.

1. $1300 for a precision build is cutting it a little close, maybe even too close. I know there are many people who can put a good build together for that much, but for everything including optics, I don't think it's quite enough, at least for good-to-better quality parts. My advice is that you get an idea of you want, finish the build itself first with your budget, then slowly as you get more money make your decision on optics, mounts, bipods, etc. The gun itself is what I would focus on before anything else. If it takes longer to put together, then so be it. In the end you will have a better gun and save yourself trouble.
2. My suggestion is that you read through the stickies in the AR tech discussion forum thoroughly, that way you gain an understanding of what you need particularly that's quality, and more importantly you understand why it's quality and why you should choose it. All ARs are certainly NOT created equal, and the ability to discern between the good and the bad will save you time, money, and headaches.
3. No. A regular AR lower receiver is either configured for 5.56/.223 and may be configured for other cartridges, notably pistol cartridges and a few others, not for the larger .308/7.62. They are not interchangeable.
4. I'm assuming because of your lower choice that you are going with 5.56. My suggestion and thoughts are that a 16" RECCE, 18" SPR, or even a 20" SAMR type set up will suit you best and cover what you want. There are many brands to choose from, and as I said earlier you will need to know *why* to choose them. The suggestions I can offer for barrels I would find suited to your wants are Noveske, Centurion Arms, Rainier Arms, BCM, and White Oak.
5. A lot of times I see people "blow their load", metaphorically speaking of course, all on their AR and the fancy goodies in it, and never even think about their choice of optics or scopes until after. More often than that, I see them end up with whatever low-end, and cheap optic they can afford. This is, in my opinion, the biggest mistake you can make on any build, and especially with a precision build. Your scope is, more often than not, what you'll be staring down 100% of the time on such a build, and the quality of the scope can have a severe affect on what you think is the accuracy and quality of the gun itself, and may be the type of scope not suited to the type of shooting you'll be doing. I could go on for a very long time about different scopes and their applications, but it would be too much to post here. My advice is do your homework on scopes, find out the higher quality makers and models, find out what you need your scope to do, and set a budget. Preferably the higher the better. Scopes, on a good precision rifle, are not something to skimp on.
5.56 is more than capable of reaching to 500yds. in the right loadings, and in my opinion is given far less credit than it deserves based on it's external ballistics (terminal as well). My suggestion is that you do go with 5.56. It's widely and commonly available, there are recently many loadings that have greatly improved it's range and effectiveness, and it's quite inexpensive when compared to other larger calibers.

jared91
11-07-10, 11:52
thank you for the welcome and the write up! well, as i mentioned, im pretty new to the AR precision scene, but not the bolt gun scene ;) having an uncle that is former sniper instructor is quite a plus for me, he has taught me well.
as you mentioned, dont go with the ace stock, i can now see your point, based on price. i think i will go with the standard AR non collapsible buttstock for the time being. caliber, i think i will go with the 556, as it is cheaper, and like you said, there are more precise loads for it now. for optics, nightforce is out of the question. im leaning more towards leupold, but im not entirely sure if they have a mildot scope, which is what i would prefer.

DTHN2LGS
11-07-10, 14:03
Yes, Leupold has Mildot scopes at many price levels, and they are a good place to start for a precision scope if the Nightforce, etc. are too much. I would like to go with the top of the line scopes too, but I can't afford them either. I use Leupold scopes for hunting and will be completely satisfied to use them for the precision AR I'm planning on building too. Spend as much as you can for the scope, you get what you pay for in the optics world.

The quality of the barrel will be the biggest factor in the accuracy of the final product, DO NOT skimp there! Meplat's suggestions on barrels are all good choices. If I can afford it when the time comes, I would like to use a Krieger barrel for my gun. But that would blow your budget all to hell. Get a 1/8 twist to shoot the 75 and 77 grain bullets which are best for the longer ranges.

My carbine is a BCM (www.bravocompanyusa.com) 16" Midlength, and I would like to suggest looking at their SS410 Barrels for your gun. I'll probably go with that too if I can't afford to spend more.

Good luck, and remember, the research is half the fun of this hobby!

jared91
11-07-10, 15:36
thank you for the responses everyone, great great advice! ok so far i have decided on these for parts:
my local gunstore SOG armory will be helping me with this build

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=103585&Catid=174&ParentId=173

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=103958&Catid=70&ParentId=0

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=102650&Catid=51&ParentId=-1

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=103138&Catid=120&ParentId=0


http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=102236&Catid=83&ParentId=0


http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=102288&Catid=50&ParentId=0

http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=101420&Catid=56&ParentId=0

gotta have a little bling.
http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=104291&Catid=52&ParentId=0


this is all just a basic idea of what i want, all is subject to change according to budget. i know i still need an upper and barrel and a few other odds and ends. let me know what you guys think.

DTHN2LGS
11-08-10, 15:15
It's OK so far. Are you certain that lower uses large dia. pins? I didn't see that mentioned in their description. The Timney trigger you picked out is why I mention it.

jared91
11-08-10, 17:37
It's OK so far. Are you certain that lower uses large dia. pins? I didn't see that mentioned in their description. The Timney trigger you picked out is why I mention it.

you know, i did not even think about this. i honestly dont know. what size pins does the timney use?

Belmont31R
11-08-10, 17:50
Just my person opinion but based on past dealings and online accounts of people's dealings with SOG Armory I would stay far away. We just had a member here get screwed by them thinking he was buying a mid length DD rifle, and ended up getting a carbine setup. The BCG looks used, too.





With that said you don't need a 22" barrel for precision shooting even out to 500 yards. I shoot that far regularly with barrels from 14.5-18".



If you are on a real budget I would get this upper: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID16+SS410&CartID=1 and a set of standard handguards. Its 610 with BCG and CH.

A decent lower will be around 350 (complete lower) for something like a BCM, LMT, ect or you could buy a stripped lower, CMT parts kit, and a stock setup for a little bit less.



Then you have a few hundred left over for a mount and scope. Id recommend saving some money for a little bit better optic but its your money, time, ect. You can upgrade the above setup as time goes on with a rail, lo pro gas block, better trigger, ect.

jared91
11-08-10, 18:48
Just my person opinion but based on past dealings and online accounts of people's dealings with SOG Armory I would stay far away. We just had a member here get screwed by them thinking he was buying a mid length DD rifle, and ended up getting a carbine setup. The BCG looks used, too.





With that said you don't need a 22" barrel for precision shooting even out to 500 yards. I shoot that far regularly with barrels from 14.5-18".



If you are on a real budget I would get this upper: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID16+SS410&CartID=1 and a set of standard handguards. Its 610 with BCG and CH.

A decent lower will be around 350 (complete lower) for something like a BCM, LMT, ect or you could buy a stripped lower, CMT parts kit, and a stock setup for a little bit less.



Then you have a few hundred left over for a mount and scope. Id recommend saving some money for a little bit better optic but its your money, time, ect. You can upgrade the above setup as time goes on with a rail, lo pro gas block, better trigger, ect.

well i like sog, mainly because ive been going to their store alot lately, asking questions and taking notes, they built my shotgun that i carry for me, and they just over all seem like pretty good people.
maybe i wont do a rail forearm, but a smooth free floating one.

ryan
11-08-10, 18:51
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=66329

jared91
11-08-10, 19:13
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=66329

well damn... i am going to be very dissapointed if they did try to screw someone over. thank you for the heads up, i will keep an open mind.

ryan
11-08-10, 19:16
Thats the best policy, maybe they will accept a transfer from BravoCo or G&R Tactical :laugh:

jared91
11-08-10, 19:28
Thats the best policy, maybe they will accept a transfer from BravoCo or G&R Tactical :laugh:

you know, maybe i should just buy a whole rifle from someone on here... or i can get someone to buy my truck audio i have layin around... 2 12s in a custom sealed box with a 5000watt amp... i need more $$$

DTHN2LGS
11-09-10, 20:28
you know, i did not even think about this. i honestly dont know. what size pins does the timney use?

The link you provided says large dia. pins. Most brands other than Colt use small dia. pins. Ask SOG about that lower as long as you live nearby.

Jellybean
11-10-10, 12:31
you know, maybe i should just buy a whole rifle from someone on here... or i can get someone to buy my truck audio i have layin around... 2 12s in a custom sealed box with a 5000watt amp... i need more $$$

Have you checked the BST section here yet?
There's always a couple rifles on there I'd jump on myself if I had the money...:)

jared91
11-11-10, 10:27
Have you checked the BST section here yet?
There's always a couple rifles on there I'd jump on myself if I had the money...:)

yessir, i sure have, and i havent really found anything im interested in :/ and im in the same boat as you, money is an issue, im a broke ass college student :(

DTHN2LGS
11-11-10, 20:40
yessir, i sure have, and i havent really found anything im interested in :/ and im in the same boat as you, money is an issue, im a broke ass college student :(

What is your major?

dail621
11-11-10, 20:52
I hope you don't intend on buying those parts from SOG... Many of them are very overpriced and as you read in that thread (hey that rhymed), their honesty is questionable.

For example I purchased that same Daniel Defense bolt for about $150. They have it priced at $200.

Just shop around a bit. G&R, as stated numerous times before, is an excellent place to shop for parts.

Good luck with the build and make sure to post some pictures when your done!!!

jared91
11-11-10, 23:02
What is your major?

i am majoring in criminal justice. plan on becoming hpd patrol officer for a while, do some investigative work, get some experiance, then apply for fbi.

jared91
11-11-10, 23:03
I hope you don't intend on buying those parts from SOG... Many of them are very overpriced and as you read in that thread (hey that rhymed), their honesty is questionable.

For example I purchased that same Daniel Defense bolt for about $150. They have it priced at $200.

Just shop around a bit. G&R, as stated numerous times before, is an excellent place to shop for parts.

Good luck with the build and make sure to post some pictures when your done!!!

thats what ive been hearing. im very dissapointed, as that is my home store. will not be going back there. thanks for the advice man i will def post up pics!

jared91
11-27-10, 21:09
well guys i picked up my lower today. couldnt pass it up. got a kaiser defense for 70 bucks stripped... hope it was a good price..:big_boss: