View Full Version : Opinions on H&K USP
I have been considering for sometime switching away from the Glock to a Sig or H&K for duty carry. We can only carry a .40 or .45. I realized I prefer a DA/SA or LEM type trigger pull for duty use. I also shoot them just as well if not better than the Glock, especially when shooting at a distance.
I have read of many QC issues with recent production Sig's and would most likely find a older, but good condition Sig for duty carry should I decide to switch to a Sig. A few months ago I rented an H&K USPC .40 and enjoyed shooting that almost as much as the Sig's. I am just curious as to why the H&K USP doesn't seem to be a more popular option among shooters or other law enforcement officers? I know of not one single agency or officer that carries the H&K USP anymore. I'm sure there is one.
Besides price and the past lack of service from H&K customer service, is there something I am missing? From my understanding the customer service is much better now. I also have noticed no one seems to compete seriously with a USP in IDPA. What are your opinions on the USP series?
I really liked the P30 9mm, but I don't care for it in .40. I found the H&K 45 to big for my hands, so that leaves me with the USPC in .40 or .45 in the USP series.
The M&P .40 is my department issue firearms and I have shot the hell out of it and can't bring myself to like it. Even with a Bowie trigger job the trigger leaves a lot to be desired.
USP's? total junk.
jk...
great guns. I hear HK customer service has gotten quite a bit better also. Parts are definitely harder to get than for say, glocks, but honestly you don't need parts very often. (possibly never, depending on how much you shoot)
biggest downside is the pricey mags.
If you're considering an HK in .45 ACP, you might also want to expand your consideration towards the HK45C, which is considered to be a significant ergonomic improvement over its USP/2000 predecessors, and downsized from its HK45 brother-and with a different grip (similar to the HK 2000).
You also might want to wait until the Gen4 Glock G21 arrives, which should be in the imminent future-particularly if you already have your muscle memory, holsters, and magazines built around a Glock.
The analysis/comparison can then be concentrated on whether or not you prefer the respective triggers/actions, safety set-ups/options, grips, sights/sight options, and magazine availability and cost.
Best, Jon
Even with a Bowie trigger job the trigger leaves a lot to be desired.
If you don't like a M&P with a Bowie trigger job, I don't see how you will ever like a USP trigger. The trigger is one thing most agree is the worst thing about HK pistols. I have owned a couple of USP's and find them top heavy, over engineered, and don't like the high bore axis or trigger on them. They are solid and reliable guns, but most service auto's are these days. If it fits you I say get one.
I've owned a full-size USP 9mm for a few weeks now. I was in a similar situation as you, I liked the Sig, but not the recent rep. that they had.
I saw a good deal on an online dealer site (a little north of $600 new) and went for it.
I've only had it to the range twice, both for competition. My scores and times have vastly improved compared to what I was doing with the M&P or Glock. It's the most accurate handgun that "I" have ever used.
I accidentally began a very hard stage yesterday in DA mode, and made a 25 yard steel shot with complete ease.
The only negatives to me are the cost of the mags, and not having a standard light rail. Other than that, I love the pistol, and don't feel the need to 'improve' upon it, like I did with my M&P and Glock.
I wouldn't want to use it as a carry gun though. It is fairly large, even the compact, but that's just my opinion. I have found the M&P Compact to be the best solution for me in this regard.
But, for range and competition, I'm enjoying the USP immensely.
i traded my USP 45 recently for a M&P... i couldnt handle paying 80 dollars for a magzine and it was a bulky son ofa gun, would have just been even more bulky with a light attached
If you are looking at Hk pistols in .40 or .45 and you didnt' like the USPf45 nor the P30/P2000 in .40, I'd limit myself to the USP .40 Tactical, USP 45 compact or HK45. The USP Tactical series have match triggers installed and are very, very nice IMO. The HK45 is a tank, with a decent trigger and gaining popularity so you will have more options for aftermarket accessories. The USP45 compact is a 45 that you can add a rail adapter to that would enable you to be able to use more popular weapon mounted lights. All of those pistols leave you stuck with $60 spare magazine cost though.
The only thing that would deter me from using the HK45 compact is the selection of weapon mounted lights. If a weapon mounted light is not important to you, the HK45 compact would be my number 1 selection for duty use with the HK45 a very, very close second.
The HK USP Tac .45 is an excellent weapon. Just make sure it's not too big for your hands. I love mine, but am switching to the G17 since it's a little smaller; easier manipulation for me.
variablebinary
11-07-10, 16:06
Good gun, but bulky with a brick grip, expensive to buy with expensive mags.
Trigger is terrible. The LEM trigger is nicer, but I still found it lacking on the USP
I'd personally get an M&P or Gen4 Glock over the USP at this point. It isn't 2002 anymore and there are nicer options these days. I like the P30S more than USP currently.
I've been issued the USPc .40 LEM since 2004 as my duty weapon. After the learning curve associated with the LEM (for me at least), I've been very happy with it. Mine is stock and armorer-maintained. I have had very few issues with it. It has in excess of 25K through it. Only problems were broken firing pins and that was solved after HK redesigned the pin. The mags are about on par with SIG for cost. You can usually find 10-rounders pretty cheap for practice. I also understand that CS at HK has improved considerably in the past 12-18mo. The internals are a bit more complicated than say a Glock, but certainly seem durable. I bet my life on it every day without question.
Hope this helps.
Be safe.
Also....there is a thread on the HK here somewhere...pretty comprehensive IIRC.
Tomahawk_Ghost
11-08-10, 08:39
I hear HK customer service has gotten quite a bit better also.
I called them a while back and left a voice mail with a question. I received a call back within 15 minutes from a very knowledgeable customer service rep. He answered my question and was very helpful.
If they fit your hand the USPs are a great choice.
I love my USP45 full size. It is a slightly large gun, but it is the gun that rides in my drop leg holster.
I would however, recommend that you shoot the P30 in 9mm before jumping on the USP45. I do think the P30 & HK45C demonstrate a significant improvement (ergonomics, trigger) over the USP series.
gtmtnbiker98
11-08-10, 10:06
I love my USP45 full size. It is a slightly large gun, but it is the gun that rides in my drop leg holster.
I would however, recommend that you shoot the P30 in 9mm before jumping on the USP45. I do think the P30 & HK45C demonstrate a significant improvement (ergonomics, trigger) over the USP series.
^^^^^^^Yep!
My USPC 9mm is my favorite pistol by far. I've had the LEM trigger on for a few thousand rounds but I'll be switching it to V9 with a trigger job very soon. I just can't shoot the LEM as well as I can SA triggers. Overall the USP/C pistols are very well built guns and I've never had a single problem with mine. Magazines can be found for a lot less than retail if you're willing to look and take your time. One modification I would recommend with the USPC is swapping the magazine release. You can use the HK45C release which is about twice the size and it's way easier to manipulate. They are very hard to find though and HK has been out of them for awhile now. I also didn't like the texture of the front and back-strap at all so I had the entire grip stippled by Cold Bore Customs.
Magic_Salad0892
11-08-10, 11:10
If you were to get a P30, I'd say get a P2000. It's IMHO a better gun with the same barrel length, as they're both comparable in size to a G19. At least I shoot the P2000 better. (V3 trigger.)
The P30L is however, really comfortable to use and the 1'' of extra barrel really make for a good pistol.
I used to really love USPs, but am really jonesing for a P30L.
If you're into .45 don't do USP, go HK45.
Thanks for the thoughts. The HK45 isn't something I'm considering because it's just too big for my hands. The P30 9mm isn't an option because we aren't authorized 9mm on duty.
Thanks for the thoughts. The HK45 isn't something I'm considering because it's just too big for my hands. The P30 9mm isn't an option because we aren't authorized 9mm on duty.
Have you held a HK45 next to a USP45? It's been a while since I sold my HK45, but IIRC, the USP45's grips are noticeably larger and blockier than the HK45. Also, did you try all of the HK45's backstraps? I noticed that one backstrap made my hand feel uncomfortable, whereas another one was substantially more ergonomic. Changing out the backstraps made all the difference.
The reason why I ask is because if you think the HK45's too big for your hands, I can only imagine the USP45 will be even bigger.
If you don't like either, don't forget to try out the HK45C too. It's grip is a little slimmer than the HK45. I kept my Hk45C, but I really do think the Fullsize Hk45 is more ergonomic--and IMHO more ideal in situations where you don't have to worry about concealment.
Don't know if this will help you. I owned an HK USPc in .40S&W, but sold it after about one year.
What I liked...
1) Reliable.
2) Supurb fit to hand. No other handgun of similar size felt as good in my hand.
3) I liked the option of DAO with manual safety. I didn't have it so configured, but I liked having the option.
What I didn't like, and why I sold it...
1) High bore axis. Increased felt recoil more than I felt was necessary (too many choices out there with lower bore axis).
2) With safety engaged, I always felt I could break the trigger if I tried too hard to press trigger. Never used the LEM.
3) Single action trigger pull felt very sloppy.
4) Double action pull absolutely horrendous. One of the worst I've ever used.
5) Magazine feed lips VERY sharp. Press down on top round when loading, slide round to move into place, and I could easily draw blood.
That's about it. Like many other firearms, a good idea poorly executed.
a free opinion - worth what you paid for it.
gtmtnbiker98
11-08-10, 12:42
Thanks for the thoughts. The HK45 isn't something I'm considering because it's just too big for my hands. The P30 9mm isn't an option because we aren't authorized 9mm on duty.You owe it to yourself to at least try the HK45c. Big difference in grip when compared to the HK45. I'm a big fan of the HK45c.
mariodsantana
11-09-10, 09:36
I like my USP45CT a lot. Still, as I shoot more and more with it, I realize that the flat sides on the grip make it more difficult to hold solidly for fast follow-up shots, compared to, say, the HK45 or P30, or a P220. I've had to work hard on engaging my pecs, to press my palms together to keep the gun from shifting in my grip. As I shoot more with different guns, I am definitely leaning toward the HK45 as an upgrade. Especially with the interchangeable backstraps, the way the grip fills my palms makes it so that a more natural-feeling grip keeps it in perfect control.
Also, it's been said that HK magazine springs suck. I have 7 mags for mine, and I do get the odd failure to lock back, as well as the odd failure to feed during a reload - especially when causing the slide to drop by slamming home a magazine, and most especially with the extended 10-round mags. I used to attribute these failures to myself, but I now strongly suspect the mags. I've just ordered some Wolff mag springs, we'll see if that helps.
Finally, the trigger is definitely odd. I don't have a v1, not the LEM, and it's been said that the LEM helps a lot. But my v1 is gritty, and it has a "fake" reset, where it clicks a little before it fully resets. I have to be careful not to short-stroke it on follow-up shots. I'll also second someone else's post about it feeling like you can snap the trigger by pulling it too hard while the safety's on.
With that said, I'll repeat: I love my USP45CT. It's taken a beating during 1600 rounds and daily CCW by this clumsy noob - even the finish is still great. It eats Wolf ammo like a champ, which keeps me on the range longer. It's easy to clean - I just dump the whole field-stripped mess in a bucket of Ed's Red for an afternoon, then scrub for 10 minutes with Hoppe's bore cleaner to get it pretty much spic and span. I'm in the process of putting it through the "2000-round challenge" - so far it's got 475 rounds of mostly Wolf and Blazer with no hiccups other than 3 FTF's during reload with the 10-round magazines.
I've been carrying a USP45 w/ LEM trigger for about a year and a half as my primary duty weapon. I use a GG&G adapter rail and a TLR-1, in a Bladetech WRX holster for work.
I personally am quiet fond of the USP, it's a soft shooting .45, and with the LEM has a very good trigger. The only real issue with it is that it's a double stack .45, it's thick. If you've got big hands it's a non-issue, and w/ the LEM trigger it's quiet shootable even for people with smaller hands. I've got slightly below average hands for a guy, and it works just fine for me.
I've put probably about 5K rounds through it in the last year with zero malfunctions.
bondmid003
11-10-10, 00:57
Awesome pistols, summitgunbroker is having a special on them right now...450 for police trade ins which is a price you really can't beat
glockshooter
11-10-10, 09:53
I have carried a USPF as an issued duty weapon for years. It is a very reliable gun, but it is not my choice to carry. It has a huge bore axis problem IMHO. It is very accurate, but due to the bore axis issue you will never be able to shoot it as quickly as a low bore axis pistol. You will probably be able to get good qual scores since it is not a really hard test of skill. My suggestion is to get a few of the gun you are considering together so you can compare them side by side. Push them all as hard as you can and see if your opinion changes. I am will to bet you will come to the same conclusion as I have.
Matt
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