M16A2 clone

[Stan_TheGunNut]

I'd like to assemble a clone of the M16A2 that I had when I was in the Army. I have a number of other AR's, so this is just a "I want one" type of thing. However, I'm having difficulty finding a quality 20 inch barrel with a carry handle upper. I'd prefer to just buy a complete upper from BCM or someplace, but all they have are flat tops. I don't mind buying a barrel (preferrably with the front site base already installed) and assembling it myself though.

Ideally, I'd like a chrome lined, 1/7 twist, 20 inch, GI barrel. Can someone point me to a place that has what I'm looking for? My search failed.

[Buck]

Goto===> www.gunbroker.com

Type the search term===> FNMI

Check the "Search Item Titles and Descriptions" box...

Press enter...

B

[flatdarkmars]

I bought an upper from this seller (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=199507688) and was quite pleased with the transaction. He also has barrels (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=198705341) if you prefer to build yourself.

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/m16a2upper-07.jpg

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/m16a2upper-01.jpg

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/ARuppers01.jpg

[zackn]

Not intending to hijack the thread, but I'm interested in an M16A2 clone as well. I picked up an AN/PVS-4, and am interested in an AR that would be a close match to what would have been in use when the PVS-4s were most commonly issued. An M16A2 was suggested to me.

I'm a novice, so I'm not sure exactly what I need to look for.

If I picked up one of these FN uppers, is it possible to get a FN lower to match? Or were they all full-auto only?

Or would a Colt be a better choice? If so, which model should I look for? Maybe 6500, 6550 or 6600?

[USAFCATM]

You mean something like this:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/USMCGruntUSAFCATM/Firearms/Rifles/DCP_1974.jpg

Mine is a gray FN upper and barrel I found at a gun show and the lower is a gray McKay lower sold through Nodak Spud. Black lowers are pretty common on A2s these days but back in the late 80s, gray was the color they were anodized. It's a minor thing though and if you want to go with a black upper, that's fine too but I would still suggest going with a McKay or NDS lower. I also have several of their retro lowers and outside of the fact that they are the only folks that make lowers that are true to the original design (other than the auto sear pin hole) their quality is excellent and I wouldn't hesitate to put it up against any big name high quality lower out there!

[zackn]

You mean something like this:

YES YES YES!!! Awesome.

Is this the McKay you have? (halfway down the page) "RM16A2 lower in XM Gray" (http://www.nodakspud.com/newstuff.htm)

Is the FN upper on gunbroker linked above (here) (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=199507688) from the correct time period? I can't tell if that has a gray or black finish.

I have one receiver from Nodak, although it's for a Bulgarian Krink build. I'm very happy with their quality and attention to detail.

[USAFCATM]

Yup, that's the same McKay lower I have. As far as the FN upper, it's hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like it might be though.

[Whootsinator]

As far as time periods go, either black or gray finished A2 would be fine if all you want is for the AN/PVS-4 to match. Family members in the 10th Mountain were still using AN/PVS-4's on M16A2's in the early 90's while deployed in Somalia and Haiti.

[Scattergun]

I'd like to assemble a clone of the M16A2 that I had when I was in the Army. I have a number of other AR's, so this is just a "I want one" type of thing. However, I'm having difficulty finding a quality 20 inch barrel with a carry handle upper. I'd prefer to just buy a complete upper from BCM or someplace, but all they have are flat tops. I don't mind buying a barrel (preferrably with the front site base already installed) and assembling it myself though.

Ideally, I'd like a chrome lined, 1/7 twist, 20 inch, GI barrel. Can someone point me to a place that has what I'm looking for? My search failed.

I bought my M16A2 barreled upper for my clone from here.

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos/accys/colt.html

there are 2 or 3 listed.

this is mine, all Colt parts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/guns/AR-15/AR-15A2.jpg

[usmcvet]

I had many of the same questions. Thanks for the links and info. Another thing to consider is guns were often mismatched so a little color difference in an upper and lower is "correct" too.

[usmcvet]

I bought my M16A2 barreled upper for my clone from here.

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos/accys/colt.html

there are 2 or 3 listed.

this is mine, all Colt parts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/allproblemsolved/guns/AR-15/AR-15A2.jpg

I've looked at their stuff before but their prices turned me off. $35 for a PMag, seriously?

[flatdarkmars]

Is the FN upper on gunbroker linked above (here) (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=199507688) from the correct time period? I can't tell if that has a gray or black finish.
The one I purchased had a very dark gray or dull flat black finish. I do not think it would match perfectly with either the XM Gray or Black lowers from NDS/McKay. It would fall somewhere in between in color. I took it apart and had the receiver re-anodized in XM Gray by US Anodizing to match a gray lower. I was having a bunch of parts refinished so it was just one more item to throw in the box. If I had not been having other parts refinished at the same time, I'm not sure I would have bothered. A little color mismatch, as has been said, is not uncommon on the original rifles.

[zackn]

A little color mismatch, as has been said, is not uncommon on the original rifles.

Good to know, thanks. I'll have to weigh the FN upper + Nodak lower vs getting a full Colt setup like Scattergun's above.

If I wanted it to be a really good clone, I guess I'd need to send in the Nodak lower in to have the FN markings engraved on it, and then have it refinished. Not to be a wanker about the details, but that's kind of how I roll :)

FN didn't get the contract until 1988 from what I read, so I guess the A2s were all Colt before that?

[usmcvet]

Hey sounds like a great idea. If you get it engraved make sure you post some pictures here for us to see.

Wanker that and nackered are words I've not heard in quite a while. :dance3:

[flatdarkmars]

Being a wanker about the details is what the retro AR hobby is all about! :D

http://tinypic.com/awuow1.jpg

Not sure if their A2s were the same.

ETA: Apparently so...

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k130/schaz42/DSC02319.jpg

Also notice both show some degree of upper/lower color mismatch.

[Amicus]

Why clone? My Colt "Government Model (R-6550)."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/Amicus333/100_0966.jpg

I got it from someone who put it away from the world for 17 years. I considered that decision was just wrong and put it through a carbine class with "Super Dave" Harrington. (Easily the longest thing on the course.) One operator induced FTF in 1200 rounds. It now sits in my safe with a TA-11 and is my final, last ditch, best-of-the-best, SHTF go-to. Tested and ready.

[peabody]

NOW i've got to build a M16A2 retro. :)
thanks guys.
looking for an A2 upper now. :)


peabody

[Stan_TheGunNut]

Thanks for the info. I'll look into one of the FN uppers on Gunbroker. The other site did seem kinda proud of their stuff. I was hoping for a new upper though, but I guess I can go used, and perhaps have it re-annodized. Was considering sending a couple of items to US Anodizing anyway.

THanks again.

[peabody]

sorry, if im posting in an older thread.:confused:


maybe im not seeing it right ?

but what is the correct handguard cap for a M16A2 ?

in the pictures, im not sure if im looking at a round or triangular handguard cap.
i think it is a triangular one, also ? would it be correct to have the green furniture ?

thank you for any information you can pass my way.


peabody

[usmcvet]

sorry, if im posting in an older thread.:confused:


maybe im not seeing it right ?

but what is the correct handguard cap for a M16A2 ?

in the pictures, im not sure if im looking at a round or triangular handguard cap.
i think it is a triangular one, also ? would it be correct to have the green furniture ?

thank you for any information you can pass my way.


peabody

The A2's I was issued all had a round cap. They should accept a triangle hand guard. I never saw a triangular cap until recently. I know BCM uses them on their mid lengths.

Green furniture would be on a Very old gun and the furniture alone is very valuable.

This threads not old. No worries.:)

[flatdarkmars]

Whoa, hold on a minute. All standard rifle-length gas systems use triangle handguard caps. The A2 rifle handguards have a special arrangement of nubs that allow them to fit either the top or bottom of the triangle cap. Behold:

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/m16a2hgcap.jpg

Carbine-length gas systems use round caps.

On a related point of historical trivia, the round "A2" rifle-length handguards were actually developed in the 1960s, but were not adopted for issue until the upgrade to the A2 standard in the mid 80s. More here (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=514079).

[usmcvet]

Thanks for squaring me away. I must have been thinking about my carbines. Most bad the round cap and a few had a round cap with a cut out on the bottom when the bbl had an M4 profile.

[peabody]

Whoa, hold on a minute. All standard rifle-length gas systems use triangle handguard caps. The A2 rifle handguards have a special arrangement of nubs that allow them to fit either the top or bottom of the triangle cap. Behold:

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/m16a2hgcap.jpg

Carbine and midlength gas systems use round caps.

On a related point of historical trivia, the round "A2" rifle-length handguards were actually developed in the 1960s, but were not adopted for issue until the upgrade to the A2 standard in the mid 80s. More here (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=514079).




thanks for the information .

so ? a standard A2 rifle'
can use either one ? but the triangular is more correct.
peabody

p.s. that was some GREAT reading ! :)
them M16's aint never going to catch on are they ? :)
thanks for posting that !

[flatdarkmars]

so ? a standard A2 rifle'
can use either one ?
No. Rifle-length gas systems use triangular handguard caps. If you were to put a round cap on a rifle-length gas system, good luck finding handguards to fit it.

[peabody]

No. Rifle-length gas systems use triangular handguard caps. If you were to put a round cap on a rifle-length gas system, good luck finding handguards to fit it.





:confused: so what your saying is, the standard ''round''rifle length handguards will not fit on a round cap rifle length ?


i think i understand.:confused:

peabody.

but, im positive now' that i'm going with the triangular handguard cap on my A2/clone build.

[Amicus]

:confused: so what your saying is, the standard ''round''rifle length handguards will not fit on a round cap rifle length ?


i think i understand.:confused:

peabody.

but, im positive now' that i'm going with the triangular handguard cap on my A2/clone build.

If this helps, look at the handguard caps and their descriptions on the BCM website:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ar15-parts-barrel-s/90.htm

[usmcvet]

A triangular hand guard will not fit a round cap.

http://m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=304&pictureid=1548

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=881062

A triangular cap, as found on rifles and middies :D, will fit both. If you look at a around handguard you will see the groves should fit both caps. I don’t have a pair here to photo.

http://m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=304&pictureid=1549

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=126536


"Replacement handguard caps fit mil-spec hand guards and military profile barrels.

Notes:

Requires removal of the front sight base for installation
Will work with both A1 and A2 handguards"

Below is the type of cap I've had on on carbines with M4 profile bbl and M203 cut in bbl.

http://m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=304&pictureid=1547

In the link below check out the A2 handguards and you will see a tab at 12 and 6 O’clock for the tri cap and the tabs at 10 & 2 and again at 8& 4 O’clock for the round caps.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5561/Product/AR_15_ROUND_HANDGUARDS#

Here is another link to a rifle with the triangle hand guards with current round handguards.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.m4store.net/images/products/thumbs/lp-m4handguard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.m4store.net/index.php%3Fp%3Dcatalog%26mode%3Dcatalog%26parent%3D11%26mid%3D0%26search_in%3Dall%26search_str%3D%26pg%3D10&usg=__PCHV7ObUtq1LRKbl7P2vmGbN62k=&h=150&w=150&sz=15&hl=en&start=6&zoom=0&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=LdOpDjq9TkTxJM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dm4%2Bdouble%2Bheat%2Bshield%2Bhandguards%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_enUS275US276%26tbs%3Disch:1

If you want to use triangular handguards get a triangular end cap, it will also work on round handguards.

[usmcvet]

If this helps, look at the handguard caps and their descriptions on the BCM website:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ar15-parts-barrel-s/90.htm


Yeah what Amicus said! :D Looks like we were typing at the same time. His link is easier to look at everything is in the same place.

[peabody]

thanks guy's...

didn't mean to confuse and debate. the bravo link' thank you.
im a littel slow...:sad: but im up to speed now !!:sarcastic:



peabody



just dug out the triangle cap, its ready to go. :)

[MHL555]

Hello, Three good companies that sell 20' barrels are: bushmaster 20"
1/9, A2 gov. profile. Green Mountain 19.5" 1/12 A1 and a 20" 1/8, A2
gov. profile and CMMG 20" A2, 1/7 gov. profile.

Merry Christmas,

Mark :)