View Full Version : questions on KNS pins
I've noticed on a couple of my AR's - specifically my LWRC A2 and a well used bushy - that my trigger and hammer pins seem to be looser than usual.
Can someone please enlighten me on their preferences for/against the Gen 2 vs. the Mod 2 Kns pin designs?
I'm going to buy several sets and want to try to avoid buying both styles.
Two more questions - Has anyone noticed any differences in pin sizes with different lowers? KNS offers a .154 and a .155, (.155 for well Used lowers).
I've noticed small differences between my trigger and hammer holes from different makers - (pof, lwrc, bushy, dpms, LAR) either that or the lpk specs are off...
And lastly - I assume these will work on a .308 - right?
Thank you in advance.
just measure your pin holes and that will give you the size you need, I put kns on all my builds as I duracoat my lowers. and yes it should work on your 308, I machined my ar-10 lower so I use ar-15 trigger and hammer parts and pins. I hope this helps you out
IMO KNS pins are NOT needed on anything and I am sure some other guys will be here to back me up.
If your pins are loose its because either they are out of spec or your lower is out of spec.
I think it was Iraqgunz who said he had seen guns shoot into the high 10's of thousands of rounds, if not 100's of thousands of rounds and not had the pin holes in the lower get wallowed out.
I had them on one lower, for a reason. It was on old out of spec BM and needed them. There is no reason to not be able to get at your FCG unless your lower is not properly specced.
IMO KNS pins are NOT needed on anything and I am sure some other guys will be here to back me up.
If your pins are loose its because either they are out of spec or your lower is out of spec.
I think it was Iraqninja who said he had seen guns shoot into the high 10's of thousands of rounds, if not 100's of thousands of rounds and not had the pin holes in the lower get wallowed out.
There's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that they're useful on blowback ARs which is why I have them on my 9mm. I agree they're pretty useless on 5.56.
There's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that they're useful on blowback ARs which is why I have them on my 9mm. I agree they're pretty useless on 5.56.
I have zero experience with blowback type AR systems.
These pins make me loco:D
The KNS pin is a very close cousin to the legendary Accu Wedge....only diff. is that when you run a wedge nobody can see you do, however with the pins you get busted every time.
Its not a big deal to love riding a pink moped....just don't let your pals catch you riding it with a smile ear to ear
I use them on my SBR's. $30 for the extra insurance is not a big deal to me and they certainly don't cause any harm.
In an ideal world, the notch on the standard pin should hold the spring leg to keep pins from walking. Does that mean the pin will not rotate?
I know my pins are not moving with the KNS pins.
Most seem to prefer the old style. Doesn't much matter.
I will say I manged to slightly bend an old style keeper, but then I can break a ball bearing.
I have a set on a DPMS lower that I got back before I knew any better.
The pins loosened after a few hundred rounds, and began walking out after a mag or two. The KNS pins were a quick fix and have never given me problems.
[QUOTE=rjacobs;810556]IMO KNS pins are NOT needed on anything and I am sure some other guys will be here to back me up.
I have had to use KNS pins On all of my 80% that I have completed because I do not anodize. When you duracoat a lower it makes for a slick finish and pins will walk out. but before I duracoat and I am test firing any of my lowers i find it funny that the pins don't walk out when the lower is still in the white; but spray it duracoat and the pins turn into greased little pig and out they come.:laugh:
I have had to use KNS pins On all of my 80% that I have completed because I do not anodize. When you duracoat a lower it makes for a slick finish and pins will walk out. but before I duracoat and I am test firing any of my lowers i find it funny that the pins don't walk out when the lower is still in the white; but spray it duracoat and the pins turn into greased little pig and out they come.:laugh:
Ok, well that might be another case for them, I have no experience with duracoat. However they are not walking because the pins or the holes are out of spec, they are walking because the finish on the gun is very slick.
Thanks for the feedback!
After my last carbine class, I noticed the pins were spinning more freely and the trigger pin was slightly protruding on one side of my LWRC.
I may try a set for this reason - but sounds like it's a waste to buy a set for every AR.
jumbopanda
11-10-10, 15:15
I don't think they serve any real purpose. If you must have a trigger pin upgrade, get the oversized ones; they should fit snug and eliminate rotation as well. Plus they only cost $3.50. I traded my anti-rotation pin set for a Magpul BAD. :laugh:
I find that a curious statement. I have never heard of pins walking loose to do some "slick finish". Pins walk loose because something is wrong. Something is assembled incorrectly or something is out of spec.
Ok, well that might be another case for them, I have no experience with duracoat. However they are not walking because the pins or the holes are out of spec, they are walking because the finish on the gun is very slick.
I find that a curious statement. I have never heard of pins walking loose to do some "slick finish". Pins walk loose because something is wrong. Something is assembled incorrectly or something is out of spec.
I was quoting the guy above me who said the pins on his guns fit fine until he duracoated the lowers and then the pins would slide around.
I agree with you Iraqgunz that the KNS Pins are not needed and if you "need" them, something is out of spec.
I was quoting the guy above me who said the pins on his guns fit fine until he duracoated the lowers and then the pins would slide around.
I agree with you Iraqgunz that the KNS Pins are not needed and if you "need" them, something is out of spec.
so far I have never seen pins "walk out" on any anodized lower that is in spec. I do know the the two epoxy mix that makes duracoat are slick in nature. and KNS pin's are like 40 bucks or less so kinda cheap insurance. I know when I did my first lower and tested it in the white and the pins stayed. then when I duracoated and the pins walked I broke out the calipers to make sure everything was in spec, and it was. so...i blame the epoxy :D
Captains1911
11-10-10, 20:15
There's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that they're useful on blowback ARs which is why I have them on my 9mm. I agree they're pretty useless on 5.56.
Please explain why they are more useful on blowback ARs than on gas operated. Thanks.
There is a lot more stress on the pins from a blowback system, even .22.
KNS pins are retarded nonsense. Just look at some of the other idiotic products this company makes.... crosshair front sight posts for example. :sarcastic:
If you have pins walking out, you have other problems.
Please explain why they are more useful on blowback ARs than on gas operated. Thanks.
What shadow said - supposedly blowbacks are a bit harsher.
KNS pins are retarded nonsense. Just look at some of the other idiotic products this company makes.... crosshair front sight posts for example. :sarcastic:
If you have pins walking out, you have other problems.
Sounds like some bullshit I would hear on TOS. And from a senior member non the less.
I feel like a bit of an idjit for asking, but how does one measure the diameter of pin holes on a lower? I have a lower I think is out of spec and my non-scientific way of measuring was to use a 5/32 drill bit which went right through. 5/32" is 0.156, so unless I'm miserably misunderstanding tolerances, my lower's out of spec.
Unless you have machinist's measuring devices, you can't.
The trigger-hammer group is designed to retain the pins with two springs; the small spring staked into the hammer detents the hammer pin and the hammer mainspring detents the trigger pin.
If the small spring in the hammer is weak, or the detent groove in the pin is too shallow, the hammer pin will drift. If the hammer mainspring does not go into the detent groove on the trigger pin or the groove is too shallow the trigger pin will drift. If the spring in the hammer is doing its job, the hammer pin will generally rotate with the hammer.
Dave
Boonie Packer
With captive trigger groups, KNS pins make sense because spring tension isn't present (at least with most captive systems) to keep the pins in place.
I disagree with KNS pins for blowback/pistol caliber AR's because they don't let the user know immediately when a pin breaks (which could otherwise damage a system).
For most purposes, KNS pins are simple window-dressing. (Yes, I sport them on several AR's and I do not apologize :laugh:)
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