My Kahr likes to be wet.... [Archive]

1_click_off

11-10-10, 12:33

I have been having some issues with my PM45 stovepiping and FTF. I Took it back to the dealer and they fired 40 rounds of various ammo with no stoppages (or so they claim as I had to drop it off and pickup). I was still having issues with it next trip to the range. I did not think it was dry by any means as I over lube and then wipe the excess off. I have more than the 200 Kahr recommended break-in rds but less than 550rds. I had manually worked the slide several hundred times.

I went back to the range to test it out. Same issues with all 3 mags. I then remembered it coming back from the dealer almost dripping with oil, so I field stripped it and went to town with a can of Remington dry lube (first time I ever used it). Reassembled and it ran just great for the next 50 rounds except 1 stovepipe. Don't think it is a grip issue as I have tried a death grip to just barly holding it, and my dad, bro in-law, and friend all have the same issue when they shoot it.

I contacted Kahr and they said to mail it back to them to look at it. At $100 to send it back with shipping and all I was hoping they would do some phone trouble shooting first.

I think I want to try some type of grease, but what should I use as this will be a CCW (if I can get it trust worthy) and don't want oil/grease getting on everything.

I searched for grease on the forum but didn't pull up anthing helpful to me. I was even thinking of clipping an 1/8 coil off the spring to help it out.

LDM

11-10-10, 15:53

Try TW25 grease.
This is what I run in my PM9. No problems.
Had a K9 years ago that choked intermittently on second round from cold bore. I now believe the oil I lubed with at that time leaked out or evaporated. Kahrs are so tight, even if just a bit dry, I think they'll choke.

1_click_off

11-10-10, 16:15

Yeah I have been using the Militec oil and like you said, if at all dry it chokes. I am going to order a tube of the grease tonight. If it makes it here in time I will test it out this weekend. If it makes the gun run like it should I can then sell it with a clear conscious and let the next guy know it is a high maintenance lady...... I just can't sell it knowing it may be a single shot if someone is depending on it.

lethal dose

11-10-10, 17:19

Don't be discouraged. Kahr pistols have VERY tight tolerances. Give it some time. I use slip 2000 with great results. If it doesn't work out, call kahr.

1_click_off

11-10-10, 19:20

I ordered the Militec-1 grease. I'll let you all know if this solves it. If not, I guess I am already into this little pocket rocket for almost $900 with the night sights and all, what's another 100 to send it home for a fluff and buff.

Thanks

1

lethal dose

11-10-10, 19:42

Never hurts to fluff and buff. I use a felt wheel on a dremmel with jeweler's polish.

Blue8282

11-10-10, 19:45

1_click_off

11-10-10, 20:06

Yeah, I use to have some gun shops around here that sold all kinds of lubes and greases and other hard to find stuff, now all they carry is fast break and other stuff you can get at acadamy or walmart. Just don't understand why these small shops stop carring the unique stuff. If nothing else it brings folks in the door and they see the service and help they get and won't mind spending the extra 20bucks on a firearm cause they know they can get some good advise or help when an issue arises. Not just some kid behind the counter that won't remember you after 5 minutes. I was really disappointed when I went in there today and they had sold out of alot of cool things on the shelf and are trying to compete with the chain stores with the chain store junk, just priced slighly higher.

(Not saying fast break isn't great I use it, just saying you can get it anywhere)

OldGreg

11-10-10, 22:12

I ordered the Militec-1 grease. I'll let you all know if this solves it.1

Yeah, please update when you get it.

varoadking

11-11-10, 04:03

Ask your dealer to send it back for you. Should be a great deal cheaper...

mashed68

11-11-10, 19:16

I was even thinking of clipping an 1/8 coil off the spring to help it out.

You want to modify basically a brand new weapon to perform how it should right out of the case brand new? Seems like a bad idea to me. Send it back to kahr and make them fix it since they obviously didn't make it correctly to begin with.
My pm9 gets run like you, lots of oil then wiped down to just a tad before re-assembly. I've never had a single problem even during break in. I've put 300rds at one time through it with no additional lube and it was no problem at all. Carrying a gun concealed while dripping with oil or grease is a big no no to me.

Irish10

11-11-10, 19:42

Another reason why I like Smith & Wesson. They pay the shipping both ways.

1_click_off

11-11-10, 21:06

You want to modify basically a brand new weapon to perform how it should right out of the case brand new? Seems like a bad idea to me. Send it back to kahr and make them fix it since they obviously didn't make it correctly to begin with.
My pm9 gets run like you, lots of oil then wiped down to just a tad before re-assembly. I've never had a single problem even during break in. I've put 300rds at one time through it with no additional lube and it was no problem at all. Carrying a gun concealed while dripping with oil or grease is a big no no to me.

Yep, from what I have read on a couple of sites the Kahr CS has had a high turn over and there is only one rep that seems to be worth anything, and most of the posts I have seen with the similar issue just came back with a little bit clipped off the spring. I would rather save the $, order a new spring try it, same issue clip the new spring, same issue I put the original spring in and ship it back. I know I did not mention ordering the new spring in the above post, but that is how I think I will go if the lube dosen't do it.

JodyH

11-11-10, 21:49

If your pistol has to be lubed a certain way to make it reliable... something's wrong with it.
Every hundred rounds or so I run a boresnake through my PM9 and add a few drops of Mobil-1 10w-50 I had left over from my last motorcycle oil change.
Has been 100% reliable from round number 1 to it's current count of around 750.

1_click_off

11-11-10, 22:23

Ok Ok Ok........, I filled out the request for an RMA# and I am going to send it back home for visit. I fully agree that it should work out of the box even with no or very little lube. I guess I was just irritated that the original dealer said it just needed more lube and was basically no help. I will not go back there for anything.

But if the Militec grease gets here before the RMA I will try it to see if it will improve the situation.

dirksterg30

11-12-10, 08:08

I had issues with my MK9 due to lack of lubrication. I switched to a dry lube (Eezox), and have had no further issues in about 3 years (it also helps that I am a lot more diligent with maintaining my guns now).

1_click_off

11-12-10, 11:04

Kahr responded to my email.

Instead of sending me a RMA, they are going to ship me a new recoil spring.

Man, I have got to get out of this habit of beating my head on a brick wall before I just open the door and walk through..........

I guess you read all the horror stories and start to always think the worst.

I'll post what happens with the new spring. I can hardly wait to put the old next to the new and see if there is any difference!

maximus83

11-12-10, 14:46

I have a Kahr PM9 that has been extremely reliable out of the box and have 800+ rounds through it. Only stoppages I've had were a couple of shooter-caused ones (because you are supposed to use the slide release lever to drop the slide after a reload, and I tried to sling-shot the slide manually).

A related issue to consider is, I think with a large diameter bullet like the .45, and a very small pistol like the PM45, any gun of this type may be a bit more prone to experience feeding issues like you've had. It's just a built-in risk factor with large-caliber, small pistols. Same type of pattern applies with 1911's: full-size are generally easier to achieve reliability with, compared to the shortest models.

But with all that said, Kahrs are generally well made and I think you followed the right path to start with warranty service. This thing should work without you having to do all these special steps and upgrades. And if it doesn't they should make it right under warranty. If you still end up having to send it in after you try the spring, and if they do not return it in 100% reliable condition, at that point I would (a) try to get a full return from Kahr or your gun store, or (b) sell it off and move on.

1_click_off

11-24-10, 21:20

Got the new spring. It measures 3.175" and the old one is 2.400" I relize an uncompressed spring will be longer and once I install it the orginal length will be shorter. I installed it and I could no longer get the slide catch to catch the slide while operating it manually. I diassembled it and is looked like the second to last coil on the barrel side was trying to expand and slide over the top of the first coil. (Coil bind) The new spring has 15 coils and the old had 14. I spoke with Kahr and they told me that they cut the springs a little long and I should trim it to fit. With that info I cut 1/8 of a coil from my original spring and test fired. I ended up needing to cut almost 3/4 of a coil off to make the gun function properly. I am now using the original spring with 3/4 of a coil cut off and the gun runs great. I still get a stovepipe once in a great while on WWB but that can be avoided with better form. I didn't want to trim it down to where it runs WWB great and have trouble with +P or other higher pressure ammo later.

Now for the Militec-1 grease.
I disassembled my LCP and cleaned it really well. All the metal parts got a coat of the grease and then I cooked them with a hair dryer at 150-180deg F for about 20minutes, wrapped in tin foil and a towel to let the heat soak for awhile. Applied grease to all the moving parts I could get to in the frame and then used the Militec oil to get the rest. The LCP seems to run a little smoother now and it cleaned up alot easier as the powder residue did not stick hardley at all. I plan to do this treatment to all of my firearms.

So now I have a PM45 that runs and a LCP that is easier to clean and functions smother. I can actually creep a round into the chamber and it goes to full battery.

wesprt

11-24-10, 21:34

It's a rare pistol (hell, or rifle) I've seen that didn't work better with more lubrication instead of less.

fivefivesix

11-24-10, 21:38

i like millitec it seems to do what is advertised as my taurus pt99 aaction is a lot smoother. i am a firm beleiver in b uying specific oil and cleaning products for guns. i use to use mobil 1 but i switched to tw25b for my dd ar and it stays put and has smoothed the action.
millitec is great stuff.

skyugo

11-24-10, 23:57

It's a rare pistol (hell, or rifle) I've seen that didn't work better with more lubrication instead of less.

yeah i think unless you have a serious sand/dust issue, more lube is better. even then.... probably more lube and more cleaning is the best bet. nothing likes to run dry.

wesprt

11-25-10, 09:30

yeah i think unless you have a serious sand/dust issue, more lube is better. even then.... probably more lube and more cleaning is the best bet. nothing likes to run dry.

Even with lots of dust and sand if you consistently keep it wet it works better than sparse lubrication (IMO). I used to work for a smaller AR manufacturing company and we did some pretty serious T&E. One of our armorers was a former Airborne guy who I think could summon a squirt bottle of CLP out of thin air any time, any place. The test gun (standard 16'' carbine) we ran 5,000 rounds through without cleaning. We would dump range dirt in the magwell, if you ran the bolt back without a mag in dirt would fall out the magwell every time, that's how nasty it was. As long as you kept it dripping wet it would run 100%. It's been a while but I want to say we had only one or two malfunctions the whole test.

JodyH

11-25-10, 10:30

skyugo

11-25-10, 12:42

Even with lots of dust and sand if you consistently keep it wet it works better than sparse lubrication (IMO). I used to work for a smaller AR manufacturing company and we did some pretty serious T&E. One of our armorers was a former Airborne guy who I think could summon a squirt bottle of CLP out of thin air any time, any place. The test gun (standard 16'' carbine) we ran 5,000 rounds through without cleaning. We would dump range dirt in the magwell, if you ran the bolt back without a mag in dirt would fall out the magwell every time, that's how nasty it was. As long as you kept it dripping wet it would run 100%. It's been a while but I want to say we had only one or two malfunctions the whole test.

wow..
I've actually taken to using tetra grease in my carry guns. I noticed that having the gun vertical in a holster all the time resulted in the rear of the rails being pretty dry, and a bit of a puddle near the muzzle. the grease stays put. They gets some militec too.

skyugo

11-25-10, 12:43

People under lube their rifles and over lube their pistols.
Rifles (AR's especially) love their lube, grease that pig for best performance.
Pistols (Glocks especially) need to be lubed according to the manufacturers recommendations and no extra.

what's the downside to extra lube on a glock? :confused: you certainly don't want any in the firing pin channel.. but other than that.

rat31465

01-30-11, 05:29

SiGfever

01-30-11, 09:25

This is an excellent grease and I use it on my AR and pistols.

http://www.slip2000.com/slip2000-EWG.html

1_click_off

01-30-11, 10:24

1_click_off,
Having just purchased a KAHR P9 I am in the middle of reading as many of the Kahr threads here as I can find. Saw yours on the issues you have had and was hoping for an update on the spring mod and the use of the Militec-1 on your PM45?

Seems as though it was a spring issue. It will still stovepipe on the WWB if I get lazy in my grip. It shoots the +p ammo just fine no matter how I hold it. I have not put the militec-1 on this gun yet, wanted to experiment with the spring mod first. I stovepiped 2 times within 100rds of WWB and none with 20rds of gold-dot.

I did however put the militec on my lcp and baked it with a hair dryer. This has made the lcp run smoother and the burnt powder simply wipes off. It also noticed when I have a mag in my pocket it always feel slick like it has oil on it. Rub your fingers together and nothing. It is weird feeling. I have also noticed that my slide no longer flash rusts from carrying it.

rat31465

01-30-11, 11:04

Seems as though it was a spring issue. It will still stovepipe on the WWB if I get lazy in my grip. It shoots the +p ammo just fine no matter how I hold it. I have not put the militec-1 on this gun yet, wanted to experiment with the spring mod first. I stovepiped 2 times within 100rds of WWB and none with 20rds of gold-dot.

I did however put the militec on my lcp and baked it with a hair dryer. This has made the lcp run smoother and the burnt powder simply wipes off. It also noticed when I have a mag in my pocket it always feel slick like it has oil on it. Rub your fingers together and nothing. It is weird feeling. I have also noticed that my slide no longer flash rusts from carrying it.

I will keep that in mind...I had intended to buy some Corbon for carry ammo...sounds like +P is the way to go with the KAHR.

1_click_off

01-30-11, 11:30

I think the main springs are just not as well thought out like other firearms. They are simply a coil spring that is trimmed to fit. When the gun was new I could not eject a loaded round due to the coil bind of the spring stacking out. My uncle has a pm9 and it eats anything he feeds it. They are just having to control such a large round in a compact gun with the PM45. I am sure I could clip another 1/8" off the spring and shoot WWB just fine, but I like the idea of the spring taking the force rather than the frame and in turn my wrist.

Let us know how the pm9 works for you.

rat31465

01-30-11, 15:27

Mine is the P9 and yes I will post after I get a chance to shoot it....may be a week or so as I have a new Trijicon Front Sight on the way that I want to install before I shoot it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=53&pictureid=1629

rat31465

03-12-11, 09:54

My wife had been wanting to go shooting so she and I packed up the KAHR P9 I bought recently, my 1910 .380 Browning and my Dad's Ruger MKII and went to the range with them. It was chilly out side with ice still frozen in puddles at the range.
We ran 100 rounds of Wally World specials...Winchester White box Target Range through the KAHR with only one FTE on my wife which I believe was caused from my her limp wristing the Pistol. Accuracy was very good and overall I am happy with the P9 so far...still intend to run a few hundred more rounds through it before I start carrying it.
My wifes target shot at 10 yards....it may be difficult getting this pistol from her hands....she likes it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=53&pictureid=1798