View Full Version : Training Ammo
How many of you guys have used or have been using Wolf ammo for training? I have a healthy supply of good ammo, Hornady and bought up a good bit of XM193 before it skyrocketed and all but disappeared; but I am really hesitant of shooting up my stash. Have any of you been this way and has this lead to using stuff like Wolf or the Hornady Steel Case Practice? If steel case ammo is hard on a barrel and bolt, at the current prices, you can buy a new barrel/bolt for far less than the price of 1K of qood ammo. Would it not make better sense to use the cheaper stuff at this time? Any body had any experience with the Hornady Practice Rounds? Any info would be appreciated.
Don Robison
08-02-07, 12:30
Shoot the wolf it's fine. Since they did away with the lacquer coating it no longer has the same issues it used to have with building up lacquer in the chamber. BTW midwayusa.com has it in stock. I just ordered another 2000 rounds yesterday. Everyone else has been out.
A lot of training schools will not allow you to shoot Wolf in their classes (FYI). So before you ever go to a shooting school, double check that they allow it.
I have shot quite a bit of the Hornady practice ammo. It is REALLY hard to come by right now and is generally restricted to LE/Military.
C4
Alpha Sierra
08-02-07, 18:24
Prvi Partizan would be my current choice.
Prvi Partizan would be my current choice.
Yeah, but how do they handle it if your AR goes "boom!"...?
I've mostly stuck with Winchester Q3131 or Federal American Eagle for years, but seems like I remember Pat Rogers talking about big problems with both of these lately. Not that PRVI is any worse than either of those, but I'd assume Winchester or Federal would take care of you if you had an ammo related "kaboom". Not so sure about some Eastern European company.
:confused:
?
Alpha Sierra
08-02-07, 19:53
Yeah, but how do they handle it if your AR goes "boom!"...?
Same way I would handle it if I blow it up with my reloads.
Honestly, I simply do not worry about KBs. I probably have a better chance of getting struck by lighting.
Because of the unreasonable cost of quality brass cased domestic ammo, I have stopped using ARs, and switched over to AKs. I have a 9mm AR for manual of arms purposes and training on small ranges.
Because of the unreasonable cost of quality brass cased domestic ammo, I have stopped using ARs, and switched over to AKs. I have a 9mm AR for manual of arms purposes and training on small ranges.
Roger that, Snake! I've been through two 1080 rd cans of 5.45 in the last few months for a total of about $250. Doing the same thing with decent "cheap" brass-cased ammo in my AR would have cost me about $700!
Maybe Wolf is the way to go... When you look at the numbers, it might end up cheaper even to replace the rare KB'd upper out of your own pocket than it would be to pay top dollar for US made ammo.
Pat_Rogers
08-03-07, 08:31
Yeah, but how do they handle it if your AR goes "boom!"...?
I've mostly stuck with Winchester Q3131 or Federal American Eagle for years, but seems like I remember Pat Rogers talking about big problems with both of these lately. Not that PRVI is any worse than either of those, but I'd assume Winchester or Federal would take care of you if you had an ammo related "kaboom". Not so sure about some Eastern European company.
:confused:
?
Actually that was Q3131A, made in the mid east of apparently rejected components. There has been a lot of heartburn about that crap.
Prvi Partizan would be my current choice.
Mine as well. We are seeing some outstanding groups with their 75gr ammo. It appears to be comparable to 75gr TAP.
C4
Submariner
08-03-07, 08:56
Mine as well. We are seeing some outstanding groups with their 75gr ammo. It appears to be comparable to 75gr TAP.
C4
Are velocities comparable?
Are velocities comparable?
PRVI states that their 75gr is 2755fps and Hornady LE TAP 75gr is 2630fps
I cannot say for certain if the numbers are accurate as I don't have a crono.
C4
Actually that was Q3131A, made in the mid east of apparently rejected components. There has been a lot of heartburn about that crap.
Howdy Pat!
Did you say that you had also seen some recent problems with Federal American Eagle, or was I thinking about Federal XM193?... or was I having a brain cramp?
Lloyd
Does E.A.G allow wolf ammo in their 3 day carbine classes?
Pat_Rogers
08-03-07, 15:38
Hootie- your gun, your ammo!
The new Wolf appears to be better then to old (though still dirty).
Have at it.
Lloyd- correct, both Eagle and the XM stuff had some issues.
I am convinced that with ammo in short supply, prices increasing, there is a decline in QC from many of the makers.
BushmasterFanBoy
08-03-07, 16:04
Howdy Pat!
Did you say that you had also seen some recent problems with Federal American Eagle, or was I thinking about Federal XM193?... or was I having a brain cramp?
Lloyd
I can tell you that I myself have had problems with a recent case of Federal AE. Two popped primers, there is a thread about in in AR technical discussions.
Why has Wolf ammo been banned from those classes? Issues or what. :confused:
Why has Wolf ammo been banned from those classes? Issues or what. :confused:
Most instructors don't want students to use it simply because it generally causes problems and slows down the class.
My POV is that you spent a lot of money to take a shooting class, why shoot the cheapest ammo in the world? Spend the extra money and get some quality ammo.
C4
Most instructors don't want students to use it simply because it generally causes problems and slows down the class.
My POV is that you spent a lot of money to take a shooting class, why shoot the cheapest ammo in the world? Spend the extra money and get some quality ammo.
C4
I feel that way too. I personally have never fired a single round of wolf in any of my guns. I would only considerate is because I had read that the polymer coated stuff has been more reliable. If I took wolf, I would take enough good ammo and an extra carbine to finish out the class.
Grant, what is your experience with the Hornady Practice ammo? Did you have any problems, would you put it in the same catagory as Wolf? The only reason I ask is because I know a local dealer who has a good bit, not sure what he wants for it though.
I feel that way too. I personally have never fired a single round of wolf in any of my guns. I would only considerate is because I had read that the polymer coated stuff has been more reliable. If I took wolf, I would take enough good ammo and an extra carbine to finish out the class.
Grant, what is your experience with the Hornady Practice ammo? Did you have any problems, would you put it in the same catagory as Wolf? The only reason I ask is because I know a local dealer who has a good bit, not sure what he wants for it though.
The Hornady practice ammo is fantastic IMHO. It is also my understanding that the new practice ammo coming out has a ceramic coating vs the zinc wash that they used to use.
There is also another round out there that I am going to play with. It features a zinc coated steel case as well.
C4
The Hornady practice ammo is fantastic IMHO. It is also my understanding that the new practice ammo coming out has a ceramic coating vs the zinc wash that they used to use.
There is also another round out there that I am going to play with. It features a zinc coated steel case as well.
C4
Grant,
Any ETA on the ceramic stuff? Price guesstimate?
Thanks.
There is also another round out there that I am going to play with. It features a zinc coated steel case as well.
Silver Bear, or something else?
Pat_Rogers
08-05-07, 07:14
There is a general decline in the QC on all ammo.
Rer the hornady 75gr training ammo. We had one fed blow his gun up with it. Hornady told him that according to the failure, they estimate a 94,000psi shot.
We have also seen a number of FTF with that, and in CA earlier this year an SO had 5 FTF with Hornady duty pistol ammo.
Does ythat mean that Hornady sucks? Absolutely not. They are a fine company.
However, none of this ammo is magic, and none of it is perfect.
Guys, I really appreciate all the input on this one.
Silver Bear, or something else?
Barnaul. Which is basically Silver Bear.
C4
Grant,
Any ETA on the ceramic stuff? Price guesstimate?
Thanks.
Zero idea (sorry). I don't think they raised prices though. I have a lot of it on order, but have a bad feeling that I won't see any till the end of the year at best.
C4
Grin Reaper
08-07-07, 10:38
Caveat emptor on the Barnaul -- a buddy of mine had nothing but trouble out of the 1/2-case of .223 he bought for his Bushmaster (mult. failures to extract and 2 honest-to-goodness duds). Conversely, the thing handles Wolf without any issues.
FWIW, I have had no issues with Wolf in my AR, as well; plus it's just about the only thing available in bulk, currently.
PRVI states that their 75gr is 2755fps and Hornady LE TAP 75gr is 2630fps
I cannot say for certain if the numbers are accurate as I don't have a crono.
C4
Isnt that a bit hot??
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.