View Full Version : Daniel Defense Lite Rail or Omega X
I know there’ve been quite a number of threads on these rails, but I’ve done a search and still have a few additional questions. I’m going to order one of the DD uppers from the smartgunner deal, 14.5” LW mid-length with 12” rail, and I’m having a tough time deciding between the Lite and Omega X rails.
I like the built in sling mounts and think I’d like the thinner profile of the Omega X, but I’ve seen a number of times people say the Lite rail is a stronger, sturdier rail. I’m wondering just how much of a difference there is in the strength/durability of these two rails. The bolt up system of the Lite rail certainly looks tough, but is the lockup system on the Omega X really less sturdy?
How exactly does the Omega X lock into the barrel nut? I understand how the Lite rail bolt up system works, but I’m not sure exactly how the Omega X attaches to the same barrel nut without a locking collar like the Lite rail has.
Should I consider the RIS II? The RIS II is significantly wider than the other 2 rails, correct? I believe the RIS II is the only one of the 3 rails that has anti-rotation tabs, right? That’s certainly a plus for the RIS II. Could you use the RIS II’s locking collar (with the anti-rotation tabs) on the Lite rail?
Thanks!
The Omega X has 4 little set screws that tension the rail off the barrel nut. Joe from DD says it's a very sturdy system, and the Omega X 12.0 FSP certainly felt solid on my 6920 but the Lite has to be stronger. The "bolt-up" system of the Lite must be stronger from an engineering standpoint. I ended up trading my Omega X 12.0 FSP for a Lite 12.0 FSP. Oh, and the LITE rail is slightly lighter in weight.
I like the X series because it is easy to install. I have one and it is rock solid. You will have it installed in 5-10 mins.
I like the RISII. I have the mk18 version. The lower rail really hugs up nice and high and doesn't make the rail look like it has a "belly".
I am a newbie here and just wanna say Hi to everyone. I am Daniel from Pennsylvania, US.
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I was recently discussing similar with someone else. I recommended the Omega X to him because of the narrower width.
this chart may help (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html)
I really like the feel of the original M4 rails and the Omega X is closer to this dimension. At 9.0 it supposedly weighs less than 1 oz. more than the Lite, which is quickly made up by not having to add a bolt-on part.
I am a newbie here and just wanna say Hi to everyone. I am Daniel from Pennsylvania, US.
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Singlestack Wonder
11-12-10, 08:17
I have both. If one intends on using a FSB, the Omega-X 12FSP allows easy access to the barrel for wiping it down or oiling it. If one is going to use rail mounted sights and a low profile gas block, I like the lite rail. The RIS II rail system has the best attributes of both.
The RIS II rail system has the best attributes of both.
Except that it's even wider than either AFAIK.
I have an Omega and it's been great. But I just ordered a new upper, so for comparison purposes I ordered a DD Lite rail with it, so I guess in a month I will be able to form an opinion on one vs. the other.
I've had both rails, and I definitely prefer the Lite over the Omega, I no longer even own the Omega. The solid bolting system on the Lite rail is excellent.
Cameron
Thank you everyone for the responses.
A number of the responses are demonstrating what I’m confused about. Many of you prefer the Lite rail and say it’s stronger because of the bolt up system with 6 bolts vs. the Omega X’s 4 set screws. I’m not disagreeing with this, but has anyone ever actually broken an Omega X rail? Is the Omega X rail essentially as strong as a rail ever needs to be and the bolt up system is just overkill? (Not that that would be a bad thing!)
I guess what I’m getting at is that I want a really strong, durable rail, but I also have small hands and think the narrower Omega X rail would probably fit me better. How does the Omega X compare in strength of the lock up system to other manufacturers’ rails such as Larue, Troy, KAC, etc.?
Thanks for the link to your rail chart Rob, I’ve seen that before and was trying to find it last night and couldn’t locate the link.
The RIS II looks really nice, but unfortunately I think it’d be way too wide for my hands.
I've had both rails, and I definitely prefer the Lite over the Omega, I no longer even own the Omega. The solid bolting system on the Lite rail is excellent.
Cameron
Did you ever have a problem with the Omega rail? Not trying to single you out Cameron; just wondering if most people’s preference for the Lite rail is based on actual issues with the Omega X or just a perceived advantage to the Lite rail.
Be careful. I am a little suspicious that some people may be comparing the Omega rather than the Omega X to the Lite rail. They are not the same thing.
I know there’ve been quite a number of threads on these rails, but I’ve done a search and still have a few additional questions. I’m going to order one of the DD uppers from the smartgunner deal, 14.5” LW mid-length with 12” rail, and I’m having a tough time deciding between the Lite and Omega X rails.
I like the built in sling mounts and think I’d like the thinner profile of the Omega X, but I’ve seen a number of times people say the Lite rail is a stronger, sturdier rail. I’m wondering just how much of a difference there is in the strength/durability of these two rails. The bolt up system of the Lite rail certainly looks tough, but is the lockup system on the Omega X really less sturdy?
How exactly does the Omega X lock into the barrel nut? I understand how the Lite rail bolt up system works, but I’m not sure exactly how the Omega X attaches to the same barrel nut without a locking collar like the Lite rail has.
Should I consider the RIS II? The RIS II is significantly wider than the other 2 rails, correct? I believe the RIS II is the only one of the 3 rails that has anti-rotation tabs, right? That’s certainly a plus for the RIS II. Could you use the RIS II’s locking collar (with the anti-rotation tabs) on the Lite rail?
Thanks!
I'm contemplating the exact same thing. Just from outward appearances with no engineering background, it appears as though the Lite Rails are sturdier. But the Omega X uses the same barrel nut as the Lite, so i'm not sure how much more sturdier, if at all the Lite is over the Omega X.
I like the integrated QD sling swivel sockets and the narrower profile of the X over the Lite, but since this is going on a duty gun, I want whichever may be stronger.
jklaughrey
11-12-10, 23:18
DD Lite, unless your going FSB route then omega or omega X. Either way any DD rails are a clear win win in my book. Depends on need and use.
I'd be more concerned over how thin their barrel nuts can be. I've seen a few of them where you can see a hole through the threads, where they machine out the notches for the wrench.
Be careful. I am a little suspicious that some people may be comparing the Omega rather than the Omega X to the Lite rail. They are not the same thing.
It does sound that way in some of the posts. The Omega X is a different product than the standard Omega, although the "tube" is the same and the mount/attachment is different.
I'd be more concerned over how thin their barrel nuts can be. I've seen a few of them where you can see a hole through the threads, where they machine out the notches for the wrench.
That notch has nothing to do with the strength of the barrel nut, its there solely to mate with the wrench.
Be careful. I am a little suspicious that some people may be comparing the Omega rather than the Omega X to the Lite rail. They are not the same thing.
Daniel Defense should have come up with a different name as there is continual confusion with many people between the Omega and Omega X.
Daniel Defense should have come up with a different name as there is continual confusion with many people between the Omega and Omega X.
Yes, it seems in every thread I see on the Omega X, half the responses are actually referring to the Omega. :)
So how exactly does the Omega X attach to the barrel nut? Does anyone have any pictures of where/how the set screws attach? I’ve looked at a bunch of pictures of the rail, but haven’t found a good view of the attachment system. Does only the top rail attach to the barrel nut like on the RIS II?
I'm contemplating the exact same thing. Just from outward appearances with no engineering background, it appears as though the Lite Rails are sturdier. But the Omega X uses the same barrel nut as the Lite, so i'm not sure how much more sturdier, if at all the Lite is over the Omega X.
I like the integrated QD sling swivel sockets and the narrower profile of the X over the Lite, but since this is going on a duty gun, I want whichever may be stronger.
Exactly the same thought process here (except mine won’t be a duty gun). The Lite rail looks stronger, but is it actually a significantly stronger rail than the Omega X.
Also, the Lite rail has welds which are potential failure points, has anyone ever had an issue with this?
spamsammich
11-13-10, 13:07
The X attaches in almost the exact same way as the regular omega does, via 4 cup tipped set screws that bite into the barrel nut. The X is a more sturdy design for longer rails since the clamping force exerted by the set screws and rail is acting on a much wider and stronger barrel nut. The X shares the same barrel nut as the Lite which makes for a very sturdy rail/barrel nut interface.
The forces transmitted to the barrel nut on an Omega act on the toothed portion of the barrel nut and those have potential for deflecting and bending. Both are pretty sturdy when properly installed and secured with blue loctite. If you have no need to disassemble the rail, you can even stake the set screws in place for a more permanent install.
I have only seen 1 incident of a failed weld in almost 3 years. DD took care of it in a heartbeat, it turned out to be an incomplete weld out of the factory. I've had lite rails out to 14" and never had issues with them. Since the X and Lite share a barrel nut, they are at the top of my purchase list when I build uppers. I tend to alter my uppers from time to time so I love the versatility of the DD range of rails.
Singlestack Wonder
01-08-11, 21:50
Except that it's even wider than either AFAIK.
Only .33" wider....
I now have all three rails, Lite, RIS II FSB, and Omega-X. The bolt up on the Lite and RIS II FSG are identical with the exception that the RIS II has anti-twist tabs which will allow less rotation should the barrel nut loosen up (never saw that happen before) or if for some reason, the rail lock down bolts are not properly tightened. The Omega-X has been a real surprise. At first, I too was skeptical of the attachment method and utilizing four set screws to secure the rail to the barrel nut. However, after two shooting seasons and with the rifle not being treated as a "safe queen", the Omega-X is as solid as the day it was installed. Simple engineering ingenuity. Interesting is the strength of the Omega-X rail. If I attempt to flex the rail by pushing it towards the barrel, it flexes less than my RIS II (neither flex much). In the end, I'm pleased with the performance of all three. My only concern is with the RIS II in that the bayonet lug on the FSB is exposed thru the bottom of the RIS II. While the rails continue down the sides around the hole, there are no slots which would allow a rail ladder cover to fit. Even if it did, it would clear the bayonet lug by less than .062". I shoot with my hand in front of a short VFG as I like to get far out onto the barrel with the support hand. After long sustained sessions, the area is very hot. Not sure if anyone else has ran into this before with the RIS II. There must be a logical reason DD didn't increase the depth of the bottom rail if this issue ever popped up in the past with military applications. Perhaps the answer is gloves......:)
There must be a logical reason DD didn't increase the depth of the bottom rail if this issue ever popped up in the past with military applications. Perhaps the answer is gloves......:)
Mounting an M203 ... ;)
jasonhgross
01-09-11, 10:50
I have had the Lite rail and the RIS II. Absolutely nothing wrong with the lite rail, but I love the sturdiness, look, and feel of the RIS II.
Singlestack Wonder
01-09-11, 13:02
Mounting an M203 ... ;)
Good one!
I was just looking at the Lite and Omega X this morning. What I worry about is that with the X, is that the set screws are pretty small.
If you are the type of person to take your rail on and off, you may have to someday deal with stripped screws. I like how the Lite rail uses large(er) screws, with an associated larger Allen wrench.
It seems to me, it would be much less likley that an end user would strip a screw with the Lite. This would be assuming the set screws would have to be adjusted/removed to take off the rail.
Is there any chance of canting the Omega X rail if the set screws aren't tightened correctly?
I do like the clean lines of the Omega X where it mates to the upper receiver.
JeepDriver
01-09-11, 13:55
I just bought and installed an Omega X 12 FSP on my 14.5" SBR. I have several Lite series and a couple M4 series rails. I am replacing my 7" Omega with the Omega X.
I would have liked to see the Omega X have some sort of anti rotation tabs on the X series. I installed and torque the barrel on the X rail to the middle of the spec @ 65 ftlb.
I'm taking it to the range next week then to a CCJA class in March and hopefully an EAG class in June. That should give me a chance to break it if its going to break.
Singlestack Wonder
01-09-11, 16:19
Is there any chance of canting the Omega X rail if the set screws aren't tightened correctly?
No, not unless a couple of screws are loose. When all four screws are snug, the back surface of the mounting ring is pulled flush against the barrel nut.
sargoodwin
01-09-11, 16:22
I've got a RIS II on my standard M4 and a 12" LITE on my 6.8SPC. Would highly recomend either one. A friend of mine has an Omega X, its a good rail too. Over all the RIS and LITE may take a little longer to install then the Omega X, but the bolt up system has a stonger feel when everything is secured IMHO.
The alignment tabs on the RIS vs the LITE not having them didn't make a difference to me when intalling, the RIS still has a little play with the tabs, so just made sure everything lined up before it is super tight on both rails.
I got the omega x 12.0 and for the price I say you can't beat it, if no one else posts pic I can take few tomorrow when I get back home. Just let me know what you wanna see :)
They need to make Omega X rails with low profile bottom rails like the RIS. Never cared for the tall profile of the M4, Omega, Lite, or Omega X, but really dig the RIS series.
Hunter Rose
01-10-11, 17:20
Overkill is great, but either rail should be good to go. Pick whichever you like the feel of better.
User's on this site, IraqNinja I believe, have used the regular Omega rail in theatre for at least a year with no ill effects. The Omega X has a stronger attachment method than the regular Omega. While the Lite and RIS2 may be stronger in an absolute sense, the Omega X is more than strong enough for it's job. It's pluses IMO are the thin profile and integral anti-rotation QD swivel mounts, all in an extremely light package.
Academic discussions on strength are great, just don't get sucked into the conclusion that the Omega X is somehow insufficient for the task at hand. They are ALL exceptional rails. Pick whichever has the feature set that works best for you.
warlord260
01-10-11, 18:24
I got the omega x 12.0 and for the price I say you can't beat it, if no one else posts pic I can take few tomorrow when I get back home. Just let me know what you wanna see :)
Would you please.
As others have mentioned, the 4 set screws are tightened against the supplied barrel nut.
When installing, you should make sure these screws are seating fully into the barrel nut, and not partially seating on the notches cut on the barrel nut (for the DD wrench)
Left is before, right is after I tightened the barrel nut some more. You can see the screws are partially on the border of the notches. After torquing it some more, the notches are rotated further to the right, now the screws are fully seating on the barrel nut.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/Omegabeforeandafter.jpg
I am a newbie here and just wanna say Hi to everyone. I am Daniel from Pennsylvania, US.
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