S&W Model 19

[outrider627]

My uncle was gonna trade in his Model 19-3 for a new handgun at the local gun store. They were only giving him $200 for it, so I called him and told him I'd buy it. I've learned my lesson not to pass up opportunities. My uncle carried this revolver when he was a cop back in the 1970s. At some point he had a target hammer and trigger installed.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8185/dsc0987.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1315/dsc0986f.jpg

If you open up the next picture to its actual size you can see there is a fair amount of wear on the finish. I'm considering having it refinished, but I'm kinda torn between that and keeping it somewhat original. I replaced the grips with a Pachmayr Gripper so I could use speed loaders.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5021/resizedq.jpg

I've read that these K frames can't take a steady amount of .357 because of the higher pressure. So I'm looking for recommendations for three things: practice .38 special, SD/HD .38 special, and SD/HD .357.

[Seraph]

Nice catch!

[woodandsteel]

My uncle was gonna trade in his Model 19-3 for a new handgun at the local gun store. They were only giving him $200 for it, so I called him and told him I'd buy it. I've learned my lesson not to pass up opportunities. My uncle carried this revolver when he was a cop back in the 1970s. At some point he had a target hammer and trigger installed.



$200!?!?!? Thanks for stopping your uncle from making a mistake.

Nice to see that a Pinned and Recessed Model 19 is going to be staying in the family. Take care of her, they are highly sought after.

FWIW, I passed up on buying a Model 19 back in 1991 for $250. I still kick myself for that. Especially with how much they are currently selling for.

Thanks for the pics.

I'll leave the ammo recommendations to the more knowledgeable folks on this board.

[austinN4]

I sold a 19-3 pinned and recessed earlier this year for 2.5 times that amount and later had seller's remorse and felt like I cheated myself.

[oldtexan]

.......I've read that these K frames can't take a steady amount of .357 because of the higher pressure. So I'm looking for recommendations for three things: practice .38 special, SD/HD .38 special, and SD/HD .357.

I'd use any factory .38 std pressure load for practice. Cheapest would probably be one of the many 130 gr FMJ loads on the market or maybe Sellier & Bellot's 158 FMJ load(expect hard primers in the S&B). If you prefer lead I think there are still several std pressure 158 gr SWC swaged lead loads. Wadcutter match loads in 148 gr are pretty expensive. Cor Bon's 125 gr. DPX load and Remington's 125 gr Golden Sabre, both "mid-power loads, might be good choices if you want .357 loads, but I can't say I've seen how they do in the FBI ballistic gelatin tests..

For SD/HD I'd go with Remington's 158 gr .38 +P Lead HP load, sometimes called the "FBI load" or "Chicago load". If you can't find the Rem load, look for Win or Fed with same type bullet. IIRC it passes the FBI and IWBA terminal ballistics tests consistently when shot out of a 3" or longer barrel.

Unfortunately, I don't have an informed opinion on good .357 loads. I haven't used .357 loads since I carried an S&W Model 28 in the 70s. For me, the increased blast, flash, recoil, and gun wear of a .357 load don't justify its greater velocity compared to .38 +P. I would avoid full power 125 gr JHP .357 loads as those are allegedly what led to cracked forcing cones in some K-frame .357s.

You can probably find good info on revolver factory loads at Steve Camp's site. I think it's highpowersandhandguns dot com.

[Bulldog7972]

I wouldn't refinish it. Part of the beauty of that pistol IMHO is knowing that your uncle carried it everyday for years betting his life on it being a good and reliable weapon.

[ralph]

I had one very much like yours...I got hard up for money and had to sell it. It was one of the most accurate pistols I ever had.I had put a ungodly amount of ammo through mine, at the time I had just started reloading,and made the mistake of giving it a steady diet of some warm .357's..Fortunatly for me I stopped when it started shaving lead, another plus for me I found out there was a retired S&W 'smith living not too far from me, calling him, he told me to bring it over and he'd take a look..About a week later he calls, it's fixed, I go over and one of the first things he tells me is someone has been shooting alot of .357's through it... I 'fess up, and he explains that the K frame was'nt intended for a steady diet of .357, and he gave me his pet load for .38...(a nice, light plinking load) I took his advise, and used that load, and had alot of fun with it,never another problem with it. I would'nt use .357's in it, I think some 38+p's would work as well with out damaging the pistol. The older M-19's they are sweetharts, they oozed quality..

[Beat Trash]

I wouldn't be in any hurry to have the gun refinished. It shows well earned "character" marks on the finish.

For plinking, it's hard to beat 38 spc 148gr wadcutter's. For self defense, I'd probably go with something like the 135 +P Gol Dot load.

The old FBI loading, 158 gr Lead SWCHP wasn't too bad for it's time. It tended to lead the barrels pretty bad though.

I wouldn't bother with 357 magnums in this gun. But that's just me.

[glockkid88]

That's a really nice looking gun. For cc/hd I would look into speer 135 gr. gold dot round. It was originally designed for NYPD officers who carry a jframe(or so Ive heard). It is snappy from my 642 but I would bet that it shoots like a dream from a k frame like yours.

[outrider627]

Thanks for the compliments guys. I'm really glad I was able to get it before it was lost to the gun store. I think I'll keep the original finish unless it starts to deteriorate or I see more rust under the grips. The trigger pull feels very light on this pistol. I asked my uncle if he had a trigger job done when he installed the target hammer and trigger. He said no, it's like it was from the factory. According to my trigger pull gauge, DA is about 9 lbs and SA is 2.5 lbs. Does anyone know if that's the original setting or if the target parts could've changed it? The SA trigger seems low for a factory setting.

Since this will be my SD, maybe even CC, pistol until I get a glock, are there any better sights available for the K frame? The only ones I've found so far are the factory red insert front sight and cylinder and slide's fixed rear sight.

Another thing, since this is a 30 year old pistol, what spare parts should I have on hand?

[ShootinRN]

I'll third the opinion of leaving its finish original. These old revolvers have some serious mojo IMO, and given it was your Uncle's I would think that means more.

When my dad passed away I thought I just had another nice old revolver. I took it into a well known wheel gun smith to bob the hammer and have an action job done for carry and it ended up being a cherry Model 12-2, what did I know? This thing used to just sit on my Dad's night stand ever since I could remember.

I have gown to start appreciating old revolvers since then and yours is pretty sweet!

If the front sight is pinned you should be able to get that and the target rear replaced with good tritium's etc. My friend had his changed and I believe they are Meprolights: http://www.meprolight.com/default.asp?catid={0A19467A-BB97-4974-949E-B32AE2F02C84} Looks like there is an option for the red insert as you described.

[xray 99]

The most handsome revolver ever made; perfect lines and proportions.

[outrider627]

I'll third the opinion of leaving its finish original. These old revolvers have some serious mojo IMO, and given it was your Uncle's I would think that means more.

When my dad passed away I thought I just had another nice old revolver. I took it into a well known wheel gun smith to bob the hammer and have an action job done for carry and it ended up being a cherry Model 12-2, what did I know? This thing used to just sit on my Dad's night stand ever since I could remember.

I have gown to start appreciating old revolvers since then and yours is pretty sweet!

If the front sight is pinned you should be able to get that and the target rear replaced with good tritium's etc. My friend had his changed and I believe they are Meprolights: http://www.meprolight.com/default.asp?catid={0A19467A-BB97-4974-949E-B32AE2F02C84} Looks like there is an option for the red insert as you described.

Forgot about the Meprolight set. I really liked the combo of an XS front sight and 10-8 rear sight on a 1911 I once looked at and was hoping to recreate that on a revolver. The Cylinder and Slide rear fixed sight is close enough to the 10-8 sight and I just found a K frame front sight in the XS catalog, but I don't see it online.

Thanks to google, I just found this pic:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/Stutzen/625-3PC024.jpg

Is it a big disadvantage switching to a non adjustable rear sight?

[anatolian B]

Feed it 38s keep the original finish and congrats! What a wounderful family heirloom. Model 19 P&R Smiths are the things true gun nuts drool over.

[spdldr]

You might damage the collector value by doing anything to it. The quality, fit, and finish exceed any domestic production auto in my opinion. And the new revolvers just don't compare either. It was made in the last days of fine hand fitting and finishing. Bill Jordan considered it to be the ultimate fighting handgun.

[M4Fundi]

I love that gun! Leave it alone and just shoot. Those are a blast to shoot 38s out of.

If you want it for self defense then sight it in with your favorite 357 and practice with mostly 38s and a limited diet of 357s. Its a great gun and great for backpacking.

[Ironnewt]

First and formost PLEASE do not refinish that beautiful pistol. It's wear and tear were won honorably. As to a S/D load you can'tgo wrong with the 158 gr LSWCHP +P. That was the last round I carried in my duty revolver and when we switched to 9mm's we had guys wanting their revolvers back after we had some problems with the non expansion of the 147 gr JHP we we issued. One thing you might want to do (as I did with mine) was to put a coat of RIG under the pachmayr grips. As to getting someone to work on it, most PD's issued S&W K-frames at one time or another and their armorers might be willing to do a little 'side' work for you. The guys who know them inside and out are probably retired but most still know what they are doing and don't mind helping a guy out. Usually will charge you a lot less that some parts changer at a gunshop.

[M4Fundi]

It needs these;)

http://ahrendsgripsusa.com/tactical.htm

[BSHNT2015]

Great story, the old S&W 19 are solid work horse. I use to see these in the holsters of all the old timers before they all retired, wished I could have bought some their S&W 19.

[Cobra66]

Beautiful Pistol!

Growing up, it was a Smith Model 19 that my Dad had to protect the family. It was always a wonderful shooting pistol. When he passed, it became mine and it is a gun that I will never part with.

I just shoot .38s in it. It is also my understanding that these frames are not built for a steady diet of magnum loads. In its HD/SD roll, it is loaded with 125gr Semi Wadcutter HPs although I must admit that I haven't really researched that load like the ones in my autos. I'm sure DocKGR recommends the good loads.

Thanks for sharing.

[outrider627]

It needs these;)

http://ahrendsgripsusa.com/tactical.htm

Awesome. I really liked the look of the factory wood grips, but they interfered with speed loaders. I think an order from this site is in my future.

[shooting4life]

Nice model 19. I would not refinish it. Leave the history with the gun.

[Oscar 319]

I agree with the others. This is a piece of your family history. Hang on to it.

Older Model 19/66's are wonderful pistols.

[M4Fundi]

Awesome. I really liked the look of the factory wood grips, but they interfered with speed loaders. I think an order from this site is in my future.

Kims grips are awesome. He really has the shape dialed. They fit the hand dramatically better than any other wood grip and are beautiful. The way the fill the hand substantially reduces felt recoil and gives you much better control of the gun IMHO. They are also beautiful. You can also sand them down to customize a bit and send them back to Ahrends and he will reseal them for you.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_1685_2.jpg

[anatolian B]

Kims grips are awesome. He really has the shape dialed. They fit the hand dramatically better than any other wood grip and are beautiful. The way the fill the hand substantially reduces felt recoil and gives you much better control of the gun IMHO. They are also beautiful. You can also sand them down to customize a bit and send them back to Ahrends and he will reseal them for you.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_1685_2.jpg

OFF TOPIC: did RA Dorwart build your boots?

[M4Fundi]

Rusty Franklin in San Angelo. He is M.L. Leddy's grandson. I had the tops made from chap leather so they turn back thorns and bottoms are double thick oiltan. Most comfortable, beautiful and bulletproof boots I own:D Holster is of course a Milt Sparks which I can highly recommend for a M19.

[Mr. Smith]

I bought this gun out of a used counter and re did everything just to prove I could.

I hope you like the work it was a real piece of gun when I started.

The work I did is as follows.
1. Install a hand.
2. Install a stop.
3. Straiten the barrel.
4. Cut the gun to round but.
5. Action job.
6. Gold bead sight.
7. Trigger recontur.
8. Sand for 10Hr.
9. Finish in 2400 gun blue.
10. JM grips hand oiled 30 cotes.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/MODEL%2019%20SMITH/100_2834.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/MODEL%2019%20SMITH/100_2838.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/MODEL%2019%20SMITH/100_2837.jpg


http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/MODEL%2019%20SMITH/100_2833.jpg

Hope you like the work.

[Condition Yellow]

Absolutely, in 4".


The most handsome revolver ever made; perfect lines and proportions.

Mr. Smith, I say this in all kindness: That is a nice looking revolver, but your spelling both in your post and on your site would give me pause. It's an attention-to-detail thing.

[Mr. Smith]

Absolutely, in 4".



Mr. Smith, I say this in all kindness: That is a nice looking revolver, but your spelling both in your post and on your site would give me pause. It's an attention-to-detail thing.

I am sorry I have a disability that cases that to happen.

If it is a problem for you I hope you can forgive my disability.

Sorry

[akviper]

I reload so I can load 148 grain lead wadcutters in 357 cases for plinking and practice. Using the 357 case negates the problem of the 38 crud ring building up in the cylinder. For serious social work, I carry the hard to find Winchester 145 grain Silvertip in the winter and the 135 Grain Speer Short barrel both in 357. The Silvertip works very well on Coyotes and Sitka Blacktail deer but I have not shot any people with it.

[outrider627]

From my readings, I've made this list of .38/.357 loads for the Model 19:

Range/plinking:

Any .38 Special and the following higher power loads.

Self/Home Defense:

.38 Special +P:
- Remington/Federal/Winchester 158gr Lead Semi Wadcutter HP +P (Remington #R38S12)
- Remington 125gr Golden Sabre
- CorBon 125gr DPX
- Speer 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel

Mid power/recoil .357:
- CorBon 125gr DPX
- Remington 125gr Golden Sabre (GS357MA)
- Remington 158gr Soft Point .357 (R357M3)
- Speer 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel

Anymore suggestions?

[outrider627]

I bought this gun out of a used counter and re did everything just to prove I could.

I hope you like the work it was a real piece of gun when I started.

The work I did is as follows.
1. Install a hand.
2. Install a stop.
3. Straiten the barrel.
4. Cut the gun to round but.
5. Action job.
6. Gold bead sight.
7. Trigger recontur.
8. Sand for 10Hr.
9. Finish in 2400 gun blue.
10. JM grips hand oiled 30 cotes.

Hope you like the work.

Very nice work.

[Mr. Smith]

Very nice work.

If we can help you let us know.

Thanks

[woodandsteel]

Hope you like the work.

Mr. Smith you do some fine work.

One day I hope to have the funds, and be lucky enough to find an old Smith to send your way.

In the mean time, keep the pics coming. I enjoy your posts.

[Condition Yellow]

My sincerest apology.


I am sorry I have a disability that cases that to happen.
My interest apology
If it is a problem for you I hope you can forgive my disability.

Sorry

[Mr. Smith]

Mr. Smith you do some fine work.

One day I hope to have the funds, and be lucky enough to find an old Smith to send your way.

In the mean time, keep the pics coming. I enjoy your posts.

Thank you sir.

[Mr. Smith]

My sincerest apology.

It is ok I know that I don't have good command of the written word.
We all have something we do well mine is gun work I hope my work stands for me not my spelling.

Thanks.

[300WM]

Going in another direction, rust causes pits which decreases the value, refinished or not. A refinish, if done right, would not decrease the value as long as you remain the owner/collector, and then give to one of your nieces or nephews. You care about your uncle, what better way to show him than by making his old horse new again.

[C4IGrant]

Mr. Smith, I say this in all kindness: That is a nice looking revolver, but your spelling both in your post and on your site would give me pause. It's an attention-to-detail thing.

Dude, he has learning disability! Give the spell'n NAZI thing a rest.


C4

[MichaelD]

Dude, he has learning disability! Give the spell'n NAZI thing a rest.


C4

Grant, only a few lines up he apologized to the man...

[C4IGrant]

Grant, only a few lines up he apologized to the man...

Ya, saw it.

C4

[Alpha Sierra]

158 grain .357 Magnums won't hurt it at all. Shoot as many as your hand can stand.

Shooting a limited amount of 125 grain Magnums won't hurt it either. Just be judicious about it.

IMO, there is too much evidence of the .357 Magnum's criminal career ending ability to not use it if the pistol will chamber it.

[Alpha Sierra]

We all have something we do well mine is gun work
That, sir, is an understatement.


I hope my work stands for me.

It most certainly does.

[Timbonez]

Like Alpha Sierra said, 158gr .357s should be fine in your M19. The K frames have a relatively thin forcing cone, especially at the 6 o'clock position. It's prone to cracking when the bullet makes the jump from the cylinder to the barrel. The longer length of a 158gr somewhat negates this, and the velocity of the bullet as it makes the jump is also slower.

[M4Fundi]

Timbonez great info! I love M4C members!
I always thought it was the light K frame that got beat up never thought about the forcing cone!

[outrider627]

Like Alpha Sierra said, 158gr .357s should be fine in your M19. The K frames have a relatively thin forcing cone, especially at the 6 o'clock position. It's prone to cracking when the bullet makes the jump from the cylinder to the barrel. The longer length of a 158gr somewhat negates this, and the velocity of the bullet as it makes the jump is also slower.

Yep. The flat spot of the forcing cone at 6 o'clock is the weak point. The velocity and energy of the 158gr .357s I got from my uncle are close to the mid power 357s I listed earlier. Luckily, Remington still makes this load and its listed on their site.

[Mr. Smith]

That, sir, is an understatement.


It most certainly does.

Thank you sir.
You are gentlemen.