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BushmasterFanBoy
11-12-10, 18:06
I've been working on my pullups for a while now, starting from not being able to do any this March, to doing 1 in April. After that, I did only "cheating" pullups without coming down to a dead hang. Doing that, I progressed to about 8, but I knew that cheaters never win ;) so I decided to do it the right way and practice exclusively with full dead-hang range of motion.

The problem is, for the last 3-4 months, I've been stuck at 5 dead hang pullups MAX. I'm not usually one to make excuses, but it certainly isn't for lack of trying. I typically average about 30 pullups a day, 4 days a week. It's hard to do 'em in one workout considering my relative weakness, unless I work on singles.

I've done weighted pullups (20lb or so, lucky to get 1 out like that, I mostly do weighted negatives) normal bodyweight pullups, negatives, more negatives, and for some reason, the most I've ever done is 6, and my consistent max is 5.

I've looked at some pullup regimens online, but it seems like they're either geared for people working towards one, or capable of 10 or more looking to make 20 or so. Is there anything for someone who's struggling to hit 10?

So, has anyone else been there and pushed past it? I'm starting to think it might be a weight issue, as I'm not exactly lean at 175-180, 5' 11".

Heartbreaker
11-12-10, 18:33
I only do them once a week (on the day I do my other back/shoulder exercises), went from being able to do 8 to doing 3x15 (unweighted), most I've done is 24 from a dead hang but I don't normally do that kind of stuff, was just out of curiosity. In my opinion the best thing you can do is 3 sets to fail every 3 days or so, eat a lot of protein (a whey shake right after your workout), if you start to stall out add weight and get up to the same rep range. Doing a bunch every day doesn't really give your muscles any time to grow/recover. I don't know if you lift weights but that obviously helps a ton, pullups use a lot of muscles especially in your back and lats, so any exercise with those muscles will help your pullups.

chuckman
11-12-10, 19:06
Negatives...when you 'max' out, stand on a chair and place your chin above the bar and s-l-o-w-l-y let yourself down. I also like pyramids...1 pull-up, one push-up, one dip, two, etc up to 5, then back down. You won't be able to do it to start, but these two things helped me a thousand-fold.

mkmckinley
11-12-10, 21:36
The guys that can do the most pullups are usually like wrestler type builds. Not bulked up like bodybuilders but strong for their size. Anything you can do to move toward that category will help with bodyweight movements. I improved my pullups quite a bit last year by adding some ring pullups and focusing on form. Another big thing that was holding me back was shoulder and upper back mobility. A lot of people have mobility and muscle recruitment problems and aren't able to do exercises properly. A good physical therapist can diagnose it or you can treat it empirically and just work on mobility. There are a lot of books on the subject but I suggest a DVD sold on atlargenutrion.com. FWIW their protein is really good too.

http://atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=44

spamsammich
11-12-10, 21:48
Negatives...when you 'max' out, stand on a chair and place your chin above the bar and s-l-o-w-l-y let yourself down. I also like pyramids...1 pull-up, one push-up, one dip, two, etc up to 5, then back down. You won't be able to do it to start, but these two things helped me a thousand-fold.

I second this, the benefits of negatives are often overlooked.

Littlelebowski
11-12-10, 22:32
Go slow up and down. Set a workable goal. Try something like 2 wide grip overhand, rest, 2 wide grip underhand, rest, 2 close grip overhand, rest, 2 close grip underhand, rest, and finish with 2 pull ups, touching the back of your head/neck to the bar.

If you cannot complete a portion of the above workout, drop and do PROPER pushups to make yourself pay for missing the pull ups then rest and continue. Do 10 proper pushups. If regular pushups are easy for you, do diamonds.

A variation on the above (with more differing grips and configurations) got me (5'10", 200lbs) to 35 overhand, dead hang pull ups.

militarymoron
11-12-10, 23:44
i was a real upper body weakling in college because all i did was race bicycles. to build up my upper body strength slowly, i started to do pull ups (i started out only being able to do 1). i used the pyramid method (1-2-1, 1-2-3-2-1 etc) until i worked up to a pyramid of 7 (total 49) in a single session. then i switched to 5 sets of 10. i didn't do it more than 3 times a week.

nowadays, i only do pullups about twice a week, still 5 sets of 10 (on one of those gym things that has 4 different bars for hand positions) , just to maintain some level of strength. i'm 42, of 'average' build - not particularly muscular or fat, but can still do about 20-25 dead hangs at any given time. and remember, i could barely do one to start with. you'll get there.

Armati
11-12-10, 23:50
In my heyday, I could do 15 dead hangs in a row. To get out of Jump School I only had to do 4.

Here are some suggestions:

It is ok to cheat. Build up where you can. Get a chair. Do as much as you can unsupported then use the chair to get the last bit out.

If you can't do anymore pull ups, switch to chin ups (with your palms facing you).

Arnold says do 50 pull ups. Even if you can only do one at a time, do 50 - even if it takes you an hour. In general you should do a set and rest only as long as it took you to do that set.

120mm
11-12-10, 23:55
I've found that cheating/kipping helps a little bit with increasing your count, when alternated with dead hang pullups. About 6 months ago I was up to 3 sets of 40 pullups.

However...

Do not be concerned with the number of pullups you can do. It really signifies nothing, imo. I've found that doing one pullup work out a week, and one lat pull down machine work out works really well for building up that kind of strength.

Personally, I have about a 3 month cycle I use to improve my pullups as well. at the peak I am doing 3 sets of some ridiculous amount of pullups, but at the valley I'm doing 3 sets of 10. Each 3 month peak has been higher than the one before, so it must work for me, I guess.

I'd recommend against alternating pushups and pullups. Once upon a time I did this very thing, and now have a wonderfully persistent injury prone elbow caused by injuring some of the musculature doing this.

What I do is isolate all my back and arm workouts, so similar muscles get worked. Right now I am doing around 3 sets of 15 overhand wide, 3 sets of 10 underhanded.

Don't forget to get your gut hard. My huge pullup numbers usually are associated when I peak my ab and pullup work out together. I tend to do lots of leg lifts on pushup days, and lots of hanging leg lifts on pullup days, making sure to hit the obliques.

Good luck. Don't try to do your max all the time, is pry the most important part of my advice.

Ga Shooter
11-13-10, 06:14
If you can do 8 straight in a row then do 3 sets of 4 resting 90 seconds between sets. Every week take 10 seconds away from your resting time and in 2 months you should be doing 1 set of 12. Repeat this process until you get where you want to be. Do this 2-3 times a week so your muscles can rest and recover. Eat lots of whey. Get plenty of sleep.

theblackknight
11-14-10, 01:45
Ive heard heresay that kipping works more muscles, while a controlled dead hang only work those certain ones intensely.

Here's something a little different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4CpaXaNZdo

panzerr
11-14-10, 08:48
So, has anyone else been there and pushed past it? I'm starting to think it might be a weight issue, as I'm not exactly lean at 175-180, 5' 11".

I am 6' 195 and I do pull-ups regularly simply because they are the single best exercise for your upper body and if I can do it you can do it. I started doing sets of 3 to 5 reps, varying my hand position for each set. For example, set one I would do 3 to 5 as wide as the bars allowed. The next set I would bring my hands in a few inches. The next set, I would bring them in some more. After four or five sets, I worked my hands back out to the wide position. Be sure to give yourself 2-3 minutes break between each set.

By alternating your hand position you will work your muscles in different ways, giving your lats and traps a bit of a break as you move your hands closer to your midline.

This method worked great for me.

I did this once or so a week for a month or two before I moved up to doing sets of 10, then 12, then 15 and 20. I got up to doing 6 sets of 20 with 2-3 minutes break between simply by doing as many fugging pullups as I could on my pull-up day. Now I just set a number -say 100, and pull until I reach it, while doing other exercises between sets. It's a great workout.

rdbse
11-14-10, 10:06
Lots of good information here. FanBoy should keep in mind that people respond differently to workout stimulus.
Some factors include body type, age, and previous experience (working out, manual labor, etc).

Some people can do pull-up sets day after day, while others need adequate rest days before their next workout. Stick with a plan for awhile, but if you're not seeing proper gains then try something new.
Always striving for improvement.

300WM
11-17-10, 19:04
I've been working on my pullups for a while now, starting from not being able to do any this March, to doing 1 in April. After that, I did only "cheating" pullups without coming down to a dead hang. Doing that, I progressed to about 8, but I knew that cheaters never win ;) so I decided to do it the right way and practice exclusively with full dead-hang range of motion.

The problem is, for the last 3-4 months, I've been stuck at 5 dead hang pullups MAX. I'm not usually one to make excuses, but it certainly isn't for lack of trying. I typically average about 30 pullups a day, 4 days a week. It's hard to do 'em in one workout considering my relative weakness, unless I work on singles.

I've done weighted pullups (20lb or so, lucky to get 1 out like that, I mostly do weighted negatives) normal bodyweight pullups, negatives, more negatives, and for some reason, the most I've ever done is 6, and my consistent max is 5.

I've looked at some pullup regimens online, but it seems like they're either geared for people working towards one, or capable of 10 or more looking to make 20 or so. Is there anything for someone who's struggling to hit 10?

So, has anyone else been there and pushed past it? I'm starting to think it might be a weight issue, as I'm not exactly lean at 175-180, 5' 11".

You should begin to think about training the other parts of the body that you need to do a pull up. You may be in a rut because the other muscle groups (accessory or stabilizing muscles) it takes to do a pull up may not be as developed as your latissimus dorsi (the primary muscle). Believe it or not, a weak grip and forearms will keep you obtaining your pull up goals. The deltoids, serratus muscles, abdominus muscles, brachioradialis, wrist flexors, pects, biceps, and two heads of the tricep play a role in doing a pull up. Begin a complete upper body workout and your pullup count will grow. Remember, the weightlifters (body builders, power lifters, ect.) that became champions all cheated when doing reps. It is when you take a muscle past failure that you will get results during recuperation, as long as you feed the muscles with the right nutrients and let them recoup. Your weight sounds right for your height, but you could do a body mass index (BMI) to make the determination. Good luck and stick with it. Being strong and fit is a great feeling.

gbackus
11-17-10, 19:30
I've posted this before, but I believe this is bar-none, the best way to increase your pullups rapidly.

http://cbass.com/Pavel%27sLadders.htm

300WM
11-17-10, 19:53
You should begin to think about training the other parts of the body that you need to do a pull up. You may be in a rut because the other muscle groups (accessory or stabilizing muscles) it takes to do a pull up may not be as developed as your latissimus dorsi (the primary muscle). Believe it or not, a weak grip and forearms will keep you obtaining your pull up goals. The deltoids, serratus muscles, abdominus muscles, brachioradialis, wrist flexors, pects, biceps, and two heads of the tricep play a role in doing a pull up. Begin a complete upper body workout and your pullup count will grow. Remember, the weightlifters (body builders, power lifters, ect.) that became champions all cheated when doing reps. It is when you take a muscle past failure that you will get results during recuperation, as long as you feed the muscles with the right nutrients and let them recoup. Your weight sounds right for your height, but you could do a body mass index (BMI) to make the determination. Good luck and stick with it. Being strong and fit is a great feeling.

If you gain enough muscle and become lean, your BMI could be off of what it should be. No worries. There are no adverse effects on the heart by pumping blood through muscle as opposed to the heart pumping blood through fat.

Heavy Metal
11-17-10, 20:18
I do a crazy week every month and a half where I do 50 per night for four nights in a row and then rest 3 days. It seems to buy me an addition two reps the next week. Other than that, I only do 40 or so three nights a week with rest in-between for around 120.

I have gone from 1 half-assed in December to 17 correct dead hang pull-ups.

My goal is to hit 20 on the 1st anniversary.

I am almost 45.

One tip I have is cross your legs and look straight up. This puts you in a good alignment and opens your airway fully.

BushmasterFanBoy
11-18-10, 09:18
Thanks for the tips guys, this week I've been trying to hit the pullup bar pretty hard, and I might have gotten some gains. For the last few days, I tried doing pyramids of 1-2-3-4-4-3-2-1 with 120 sec rest between each set. Did that around 3 times a day, topping off the last daily workout with a bunch of negatives (30-50 done in sets of 10, admittedly by the end its more of a controlled fall than anything, but my arms were definitely working). I worked some wide grip and narrow grip pullups in there too, and I think it helped work different muscles.

I took yesterday off, and now today, I just completed a pyramid of 1-2-3-4-5-4...1 with just 90 sec of rest between sets. I'm pretty happy with that improvement, 30 secs off my rest and another 5 on top of the pyramid. The Pavel's ladders still seem a bit out of my league with such short rest, but I'll give em a try today and see how I do.

ROCKET20_GINSU
11-18-10, 11:23
There is no substitute for practicing pullups, but if you're looking for a different way to train for them and got you over a plateau or to just do a bit of cross training I recommend swimming and rowing, but especially swimming. When I entered high school I could only do 2-3 pull ups but after a season on the swim team I could do x5 times the number of pull ups I did before. Free style swimming with proper technique is great cross training for pull ups, I feel like it helps alot with the stamina when you get in to the 15+ pull up range, but also helps you reach 10 if you can only do a few. If you're not comfortable with swimming I would start with 5x 100m sprints on 3-4 min intervals (i.e. in those 3 -4 min you swim the distance and whatever remaining time you have you get to rest, incentive to swim faster lol). Eventually reduce your intervals and increase your distances, i.e. 3-5 100m sprints (2:15 interval), 2x 300m sprint (4-5min), 3-5x 100m (2:30 int), just an example scale to your ability level.

I've also heard that chopping wood is a great lat workout also...never tried it but thought I'd pass it on. Pull ups are one of the greatest and most functional upper body exercises out there, you will be very rewarded for your work. When I was in the Army I could usually average between 22-27 pull ups, It definitely made o courses alot easier :D

GU

300WM
11-19-10, 16:51
There is no substitute for practicing pullups, but if you're looking for a different way to train for them and got you over a plateau or to just do a bit of cross training I recommend swimming and rowing, but especially swimming. When I entered high school I could only do 2-3 pull ups but after a season on the swim team I could do x5 times the number of pull ups I did before. Free style swimming with proper technique is great cross training for pull ups, I feel like it helps alot with the stamina when you get in to the 15+ pull up range, but also helps you reach 10 if you can only do a few. If you're not comfortable with swimming I would start with 5x 100m sprints on 3-4 min intervals (i.e. in those 3 -4 min you swim the distance and whatever remaining time you have you get to rest, incentive to swim faster lol). Eventually reduce your intervals and increase your distances, i.e. 3-5 100m sprints (2:15 interval), 2x 300m sprint (4-5min), 3-5x 100m (2:30 int), just an example scale to your ability level.

I've also heard that chopping wood is a great lat workout also...never tried it but thought I'd pass it on. Pull ups are one of the greatest and most functional upper body exercises out there, you will be very rewarded for your work. When I was in the Army I could usually average between 22-27 pull ups, It definitely made o courses alot easier :D

GU

Lat pulls are actually a great way to simulate pull ups, if you have access to a lat pull machine.

The latissimus dorsi is one of the largest muscles (or muscle groups)in the upper body. To get it stronger, you must work this muscle either to or near exhaustion, then let it recoup for a few days (or what ever your routine is) and then do it again (and again, and again etc.). If you are not doing enough pull ups (generally because your arms, wrists, and grip is giving out before the lat does) your progress is likely to be slow. Lat pulls will speed this process up because it will allow you to use a weight that you can rep between 6 to 10 times, over a period of three to five sets, per work out. This in turn will work the lat much better. You will break down more muscle tissue, which will grow back a little stronger and bigger each time. Bent over rows, one arm rows, and seated rows are just a few exercises as well, that will help your lats and the number of pull ups you do, morph.

Heavy Metal
11-19-10, 17:38
A trick I do on my last set is when I finish I run over to the Lat pull/Mod assist Dip machine and do more to muscle failure and add 4 plates counterweight and repeat till I am at the bottom of the stack or too pooped to pop.

TXLowflyer
11-19-10, 18:10
I worked out with Stew Smith when I lived in Maryland. This sounds strange, but it really works!

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/fitness-test-prep/pullup-push-workout

300WM
11-19-10, 20:22
I worked out with Stew Smith when I lived in Maryland. This sounds strange, but it really works!

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/fitness-test-prep/pullup-push-workout

Doesn't sound strange at all. He has helped quite a few people become BMF's.

Boss Hogg
11-22-10, 16:21
in between sets of squats, deadlifts, overhead squats, dips, military press, and bench press, do a pullup or two or three. This is called "greasing the groove" by Pavel Tsatsouline. Google it- it worked wonders for me.

Look at the non-compound lifts that Crossfit does, and they're all listed above.

markdh720
11-22-10, 23:04
I used this program and it worked well for me.

http://twentypullups.com/

They also have similar programs for push ups and sit ups.

jasonhgross
11-23-10, 11:33
Thats a good program and not to hard. Also, throw in some bent over dumbell rows. They are fun.

Krusty783
11-23-10, 12:23
When you're engaged in strenuous workouts your body can take 48 hrs or more to completely recover. If you're doing your max/near max reps on consecutive days you may actually be damaging your body.

Also, you should vary your workouts. Pullups (and squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc.) are compound exercises that involve several muscle groups. Instead of just doing pullups every workout, alternate between lat pulldowns, bicep curls and different kinds of pullups. This will stimulate the relevant muscle groups more directly and you will probably begin to notice some strength gains within a few weeks. It will also get your body used to handling different types of loads which will give you more "real world"/applicable strength and it will provide some insurance against injury.

Some people vary workouts weekly; I vary them every workout. For instance, if I do pullups on Monday, I'll do lat pulldowns on Wed and Friday I'd do db curls or switch grip pullups.

crazymoose
11-29-10, 14:03
Good advice so far. I would also advise trying neutral-grip pullups (i.e. your palms face each other, as if you were hanging down from a set of parallel bars). Mechanically speaking, most people are strongest in this position, and I find that it's easier on the joints.

Militant83
11-29-10, 18:24
Something ive seen guys do in the gym is use Power bands to assist them in pullups, dips...etc and they also use them for all sorts of other workouts. They come in various strengths.

Like these:
http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?cid=138

There are places that sell different brands cheaper so i would shop around if you chose to go that route.

Need4Speed
11-29-10, 19:41
This a guy here in OKC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG7RphbQpJE

wilco423
11-29-10, 22:48
One other Pavel program, adaptable to lower reps, although sounds like you could start with the regular program now. Congratulations on the improvement - keep up the good work.

www.kbnj.com/FighterPullupByPavel.htm

500grains
11-30-10, 17:39
Bushmasterfanboy, forgive me for asking this question, but is there any flesh around your waist that could be dropped? If so, that is a great way to push your numbers up because it would mean you are doing weighted pullups right now.

BushmasterFanBoy
12-02-10, 07:33
Bushmasterfanboy, forgive me for asking this question, but is there any flesh around your waist that could be dropped? If so, that is a great way to push your numbers up because it would mean you are doing weighted pullups right now.

Without a doubt, yes. I certainly have more weight to lose, and it would help immensely with pullups I think, if my experiences with weighted pullups are anything to judge from.

R.P.
12-13-10, 12:46
I usually just try to do 4-5 sets of 12-15 pullups throughout the day on the crossbeam in the tool shed at work.

vaglocker
12-13-10, 14:45
A lot of people are not even aware that there is a proper technique for a pull-up. Most people try to "muscle" it with their arms when they need to incorporate more back and core. Using the proper technique not only allows you to do more pull-ups but also keeps you from jacking up your elbows and shoulders. This is a good video (http://goldmedalbodies.com/products/more-pull-ups-primer/)that explains the technique from properly "packing" the shoulders to incorporating your core (not to be confused with kipping). Keep your shoulders "packed" and make sure you keep your entire body is rigid as you pull.Try it and see if it helps.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-16-10, 20:56
Ahhh, pullups, ughhh. I struggled with pull ups early in my career, I could only do about 10 reverse grip dead hangs and that was my plateau. I then decided to get proactive so here's what I did:

Wide forward grip lat pull downs. Do 3 Sets of 20 at whatever weight you can pull down, even if its 10lbs.

Row row row your boat. Get on a row machine and spend about 10-15 min a day. Its great cardio and will build your back pretty quickly.

Assisted Pull up machine. Do 20 wide forward grip pull ups at whatever weight you can do it.

And finally, pull ups. There is no substitute to the real thing, and when combined with pushups you can really build your upper body. If you want a great natural build, do variations of pull ups, dips, and push ups.

Hope this helps, I can do about 20-25 during PFT season, and about 16-20 in the off season. I will say this though, if you dont keep your pull up regimen going regularly, your body will react and you will lose alot of that strength.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-16-10, 21:03
A lot of people are not even aware that there is a proper technique for a pull-up. Most people try to "muscle" it with their arms when they need to incorporate more back and core. Using the proper technique not only allows you to do more pull-ups but also keeps you from jacking up your elbows and shoulders. This is a good video (http://goldmedalbodies.com/products/more-pull-ups-primer/)that explains the technique from properly "packing" the shoulders to incorporating your core (not to be confused with kipping). Keep your shoulders "packed" and make sure you keep your entire body is rigid as you pull.Try it and see if it helps.

I completely missed this post. You are dead on, the pull up is a core exercise, not an arm workout. Negative pull ups are amazing ways to up your number, thanks for posting that,

MeanRider
12-16-10, 21:06
Pavel program, and get a weighted belt for added resistance.

Yojimbo
12-21-10, 21:30
Right now I'm maxed at 25 dead hang pull-ups. When I was trying to get to that number I did pull-ups almost every day. I only did one real back workout per week but I do several sets of pull-ups every day. I would do 3-4 easy sets 6-10 reps almost every day.

My goal this year is to do 10 pull-ups and 15 dips with body weight plus 50 pounds.