View Full Version : Thoughts on Ruger LCP?
willowofwisp
11-13-10, 19:07
I am thinking of buying a Ruger LCP tomorrow as between Cabela's sale and a coupon i can get one for liek 285$ OTD.
I was thinking of using the gun as a BUG in a pocket holster and possibly a gun when i can't carry my 26 or 19.
I have never shot one and have heard both good and bad stories of these guns, so can anyone chime in with their experiences?
I have been using my LCP for a bug for about a year and a half. It has only has about 400 rnds thru it, and it has been flawless thus far. Well worth the money. I
I've got one that I picked up on a FTF deal. It came with a pinky extension on the mag. I had the mag dislodge from the gun twice in the same day at my shooting area. Seems the pressure of my hand on the pinky ext and the snap of the recoil caused my hand to bump the mag release button just enough to let it pop out. It lives in the safe now.
I've got a kel-tec P3-AT with a 1rd mag ext that I've never had that issue with so it is my pocket gun that I carry near daily. While not as good FF of the LCP, it does produce better groups for me at least.
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anatolian B
11-13-10, 22:38
Love mine, carry it every day. It sits in my left front pocket as a back up to whatever may come. I typically train with it shooting it left handed (my weak hand). To date, after 14 months, I have put eight different types of HP and FMJ down the pipe with no FTF. I love to shoot the little thing. The Pearce mag extentions made it much more controllable for me and I wear small to medieum mens gloves for a grip size comparison.
I have an LCP with a Crimson Trace laser, loaded with Hornady Critical Defense rounds.
I'm not a big laser fan, but the sights are very small, useful for short ranges. With the laser I can hit out to 25 yards without a problem. The gun has been very reliable. As a shooter, it's manageable, but not comfortable.
I carry it when I'm wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt during the summer time. Otherwise I carry something bigger (Kahr PM9 or Glock 36).
Overall, I'm happy with it.
Ive had mine for about a year and half. I carry it every day loaded with Corbon DPX. Happy with it so far but I do choose to carry my P30 when I can.....
Dapimpspimp
11-14-10, 11:02
A good friend of mine calls it the Ruger "Little Crappy Pistol" for good reason. We have had quite a few officers bring the LCP out to qualify with as a BUG and find out that their new cute pistol does not function very well. We have seen multiple failures to feed and failures to fire.
The pistol lacks decent sights. I'm not sure that I would want to get into a gun fight with a pistol that I could not shoot easily during a stressful encounter. I understand that having a small pistol is better than have no pistol at all.
My recommendation would be a Smith and Wesson 5-shot .38 revolver. It had better sights,reliablity, and ballistics. I can easily keep 5 shots on a b-27 at 50 yards.
It scares me that people carry these junk guns and consider themselves armed. The guns are low cap, unreliable junk in a ridiculously underpowerd caliber.
Back in the day we did a bunch of hill billy balistic testing on .380, and the round is friggin PATHETIC. I would NEVER use one of these trinkets for defensive purposes.
I like my LCP quite a bit. It's an excellent BUG and good if you tend to not take your full size gun with you to do quick errands. The sights are tiny and solid black so I recommend a Crimson Trace laser for it. It's also quite a handful, as its light weight means your hands and wrists are taking most of the recoil. I would not recommend it for an inexperienced handgun shooter. The grip is small so make sure your hand fits it. The 1 finger magazine extension became a necessity for me with the bit of grip lost to the Crimson Trace as it pushed some of my ring finger off.
It has its limitations, but all guns this size do. I've been considering a Rohrbaugh R9 (http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/node/9) as it is a slightly larger/heavier but 9mm, but haven't been able to find one in the area to shoot to see if recoil is still manageable.
It scares me that people carry these junk guns and consider themselves armed. The guns are low cap, unreliable junk in a ridiculously underpowerd caliber.
Back in the day we did a bunch of hill billy balistic testing on .380, and the round is friggin PATHETIC. I would NEVER use one of these trinkets for defensive purposes.
Well if that isnt a direct shot at those of us who happen to carry them, I dont know what is. Not gonna get me down though. I love mine. I carry it in the Talon Training wallet holster and it is never an issue to just drop it in my pocket whenever I am going anywhere (except for school). I carry my M&P9fs with Trijicon night sights, TLR-1, and APEX DCAEK in a Raven LC whenever I can, but that is usually not practical at formal events such as weddings, or at church which is where the LCP shines. It simply looks like, wieghs the same, and feels the same as a wallet in your strong-side back pocket.
Also, I dont know why anyone would have a huge beef with the sights on these guns. I painted my front sight with orange nail polish and they serve their purpose. I could easily keep my groups on the torso of a man sized target out to 25 yards, which is more than enough as this gun would be used at close range. It is not fair to assume that this gun would be any sort of "go to" weapon for law enforcement in a gunfight, that is what the primary if for. These are back up guns, to be used for back up only in that application. I am not a law enforcement officer yet, but I can't imagine a situation where an officer would run dry with his primary, and still need to make hits beyond the effective range of an LCP. And as for the effectiveness of the .380, its better than nothing. I know this question is overused, but would YOU want to be hit with one?
It scares me that people carry these junk guns and consider themselves armed. The guns are low cap, unreliable junk in a ridiculously underpowerd caliber.
Back in the day we did a bunch of hill billy balistic testing on .380, and the round is friggin PATHETIC. I would NEVER use one of these trinkets for defensive purposes.
The LCP has had mixed reviews. It seems to do fine in ideal range conditions. However, when the pistol is dirty or there is the slightest limp wrist it will suffer some hickups. Combat or self defense are never ideal conditions, and you are never at your best, but I want something that will shoot reliably at those times.
As far as the .380 goes, it is indeed better than nothing. Its advantages are that it the ammunition is considerably lighter than 9mm, and it allows you do use a pistol that is smaller and lighter than a 9mm. The downside of it is that it is a poor penetrator and even the best JHP loads will only average about 10" of penetration in calibrated bare ballistic gel. It's even more weak through barriers. However, this does not make it useless, it just limits its applications. With proper training and understanding of this round, DOI has had several shootings involving our backup P232s with Remington 102gr GS in the last 5 years. They all turned out well primarily because the officer understood what his weapon would do and what it would not do in the board of reviews.
1_click_off
11-14-10, 16:58
I have one, so does my Dad, and a friend of mine. No issues out of any of them. It is a great pocket pistol.My Dad got the Crimson trace for his and I think I will get one before too much longer.
I am thinking of buying a Ruger LCP tomorrow as between Cabela's sale and a coupon i can get one for liek 285$ OTD. I was thinking of using the gun as a BUG in a pocket holster and possibly a gun when i can't carry my 26 or 19. I have never shot one and have heard both good and bad stories of these guns, so can anyone chime in with their experiences?
It scares me that people carry these junk guns and consider themselves armed. The guns are low cap, unreliable junk in a ridiculously underpowerd caliber. Back in the day we did a bunch of hill billy balistic testing on .380, and the round is friggin PATHETIC. I would NEVER use one of these trinkets for defensive purposes.
Tell us how you really feel, Mark. :D
My input: LCPs are product-improved P3ATs. They tend to be reliable with domestic, SAAMI spec, factory produced, newly manufactured ammunition. They are a carry-much, shoot-little type of gun. They are best as a BUG (2nd, 3rd, or more). I see a couple that are being used as pool guns and accumulating good round counts. They are doing well, but they are fed only high quality ammunition. Another is doing well on a diet of Win Ranger SXTs almost exclusively. The balance tend to be hit and miss, depending mostly on what they're fed. They should also be run wet.
Awesome carry gun. You can't beat the size and carry options of this gun. It took me a little bit of time to get use to because I've always shot larger handguns 9mm and up. I felt like the gun bounced around in my hand in the beginning but with a little bit of practice I was able to get a good comfortable draw and grip on it. For personal defense while wearing spedos this is it. Just kidding about the spedos. :sarcastic:
I've only put a few hundred rounds through my late model LCP, but its been flawless. Its small grip and poor sights make it dificult to shoot accurately, but its reasonably accurate at close distances. I try not to kid myself that I'm adequately armed with a marginally accurate .380, and I try to carry something else whenever possible. This is easier said than done for civilian CCW, so the LCP gets carried more frequently than I'd prefer.
willowofwisp
11-14-10, 17:46
Well i skipped out on the LCP, i held one and i really didn't like the way it felt in my hands...not that i don't like small guns as i carried a pm9 for almost a year.
I decided ill probably wait and buy a m&p 340 after Christmas or something.
Well if that isnt a direct shot at those of us who happen to carry them, I dont know what is.
Kind of how I felt about that comment. I hear the same criticism from some folks because I choose to carry 9mm GLOCKs and everyone knows 9mm is worthless. Everyone knows if it doesn't start with 4 and end with 5 it's just crap. :rolleyes:
The LCP is what it is ... a tiny gun that's better than carrying nothing. I don't choose to carry a LCP. I carry it when I'm venturing somewhere I absolutely can't get caught carrying a "real" pistol. I don't feel it's the best defensive option but it's better than a knife ... which I also carry. It's better than a kick to the groin ... which I can also do, if necessary. The trick to carrying a LCP is know it's limitations and make sure you have functioned tested your particular specimen. I have owned several and all have functioned well with quality, factory loaded ammo.
I'm guessing if I chose to not carry a LCP when I absolutely can't risk getting caught with my normal carry rig I would be lambasted for that too.
Business_Casual
11-14-10, 18:38
I don't understand how you can train with Gun X and take classes with Gun X but when you have to get milk at the Stop and Rob at 11:00 pm, you pick up the LCP and stick it in your pocket because Gun X is too heavy or whatever.
****ing bizzare.
B_C
I don't understand how you can train with Gun X and take classes with Gun X but when you have to get milk at the Stop and Rob at 11:00 pm, you pick up the LCP and stick it in your pocket because Gun X is too heavy or whatever.B_C
Really? I think you're missing the point. Do you only have one gun? Do you have one tool in your toolbox?
I carry the LCP when I can't carry anything bigger. If I can carry something bigger, I do. While I'd love to carry my Glock 36 (or my duty gun, a Glock 22) every time, the situation doesn't always make that possible. Cutting the lawn in gym shorts and a t-shirt, LCP. Wearing shorts or jeans and a t-shirt, Kahr PM9. With a sweatshirt or jacket, Glock 36.
I don't see any of the posters above stating they carry the LCP when they're too lazy to carry something bigger. It's when they CAN'T carry something bigger.
I don't understand how you can train with Gun X and take classes with Gun X but when you have to get milk at the Stop and Rob at 11:00 pm, you pick up the LCP and stick it in your pocket because Gun X is too heavy or whatever.
****ing bizzare.
B_C
Hypothetically, some folks might go places that are not legal to carry a firearm. They simply can't risk strapping on their normal IWB or OWB carry rig and possibly getting caught. As good as Raven, Comp-Tac, Milt Sparks, or whomever holster guru you wear is they still sometimes print a bit.
****ing bizzare .... not really. I am guessing these hypothetical folks don't want a felony conviction thus never being able to legally carry a firearm .... or vote ... or get a job ... again.
I carry a LCP instead of a "real" gun maybe 5% of the time. I carry a "real" gun the other 95%. Sometimes I get crazy and carry them both.
OP, I also picked up an LCP to complement my G19 and G26, but mostly for primary carry while running. I broke it in with several boxes of FMJ and JHP. Sure, it's not a high round count, but so far, no malfs of any kind.
I'd hate to shoot a class with it due to the small grip frame and rudimentary sights, but I spend several hours a week running and I am delighted that I now have something more than an IWB Spyderco during these times. (yeah, I've read all the posts where they run marathons with their full-size duty gun, but this hasn't worked for me when I've tried it). The rest of the time, I clip it under my driver's seat with the belt clip. I wipe it down after running but so far it has not rusted from sweat.
The trigger is actually not horrible. Subjectively, I found the recoil not nearly as snappy or unpleasant as I had read. Although I keep it clean, as an experiment I have shot it pretty linty and it functions fine. I should get around to shooting it sweaty -- I need to plan to park 5 miles short of the cinder pit and bring my running clothes.
OP, the 340 looks like a great little piece, though you are more of a man than I am for checking out a .357mag lightweight snubbie. :eek: Good for you for checking out the LCP in person.
I carry my G26 while mowing the lawn, BTW. ;)
keysersoze
11-14-10, 20:10
I've owned both (and sold both) and they're decent pistols. I bought the P3AT first, and although it was reliable with Cor-Bon, Mag-Tech and Golder Saber JHP ammo, it was a bit picky with FMJ's (which is because we have limited options for .380 ammo here in the Philippines).
I gave up of the P3AT because it has a bad finish, that coupled with tropical heat and sweat caused a lot of rust. Also, the frame felt a bit flimsy for me, and when it got deformed slightly and I was instructed to fix it with an industrial strength hairdryer I decided that it was time to sell the damn thing.
The LCP is a much better pistol than the P3AT IMO, the pistol feels solid, the slide stop is a big help, and the finish is an improvement. Sights are still so-so, painting certainly helps though.
I sold the LCP when I discovered that although the slide had a nice rust resistant finish, the barrel did not.
I now EDC a Glock 26 for a BUG.
I carry my G26 while mowing the lawn, BTW. ;)
Nice... LOL
It scares me that people carry these junk guns and consider themselves armed. The guns are low cap, unreliable junk in a ridiculously underpowerd caliber.
Back in the day we did a bunch of hill billy balistic testing on .380, and the round is friggin PATHETIC. I would NEVER use one of these trinkets for defensive purposes.
Come on markm, that is a rather weak post, and really provides the OP with no relevant info. Do you have any real experience with the LCP to call it "unreliable junk?" If so, just tell us. And if you find the caliber to be underpowered, that's fine but citing your old hillbilly balistic testing provides no value. A big reason that that everybody and their brother is now producing a new .380 is because of some of the gains made with the new defensive load offerings.
I have never had a failure of any sort with my LCP, and I am not aware of any widespread failure issues. The sights suck, but remember this gun is inteded to be used at extrememly close ranges (stick in the guy's gut and pull the trigger). It's not supposed to shoot accuratley at 25 yards. I practice with mine at 7 yards, and it groups just fine.
Anytime I overhear someone making a general statement about the .380 or 9mm being "underpowered" for a defensive load, I lose all ability to attribute any credibility to that individual. Determining the proper caliber for the intended purpose is much too complex to just make an off-the-cuff blanket statement like that.
When confronted directly by an individual who suggests that the .380 is worthless, my general response is to inquire as to whether the individual would be comfortable taking a round in order to validate their assertion. I've never had any takers.
It's not a freaking elephant gun, people. But it can serve a purpose, and it can knock someone down.
Anytime I overhear someone making a general statement about the .380 or 9mm being "underpowered" for a defensive load, I lose all ability to attribute any credibility to that individual.
It's not a freaking elephant gun, people. But it can serve a purpose, and it can knock someone down.
This.
There're a lot of dead gang bangers that fell to the hand of a .380 .... in an untrained hand .... with poor ammo nonetheless. I'm just sayin'.
It scares me that people carry these junk guns and consider themselves armed. The guns are low cap, unreliable junk in a ridiculously underpowerd caliber.
Back in the day we did a bunch of hill billy balistic testing on .380, and the round is friggin PATHETIC. I would NEVER use one of these trinkets for defensive purposes.
You said it. YOU would never use one of those trinkets but to each his own, this is America last time I checked. This place is full of opinions lately. I don't own one of these pistols and don't want one, but I don't think they're junk so to speak. Some people refuse to carry a full size pistol with them everywhere so I would much rather see somone carrying one of these than nothing at all. While I don't consider the .380 to be the cat's ass, it is better than NOTHING right?
I carry my LCP when I absolutely cannot carry my M&P FS. Otherwise its always been the M&P as my main carry with the lcp as an occasional bug. I would say though that the pearce grip extension helps alot yet still conceal the gun pretty well.
I have had my LCP for about a little over a year. It is a great gun, if you consider the following:
It isn't a range gun. It isn't exactly fun to shoot, but it isn't meant as a range gun.
It's sights suck. Then again, it isn't a range gun. It is meant for up-close & personal situations. I can hit a target with every round in it at 7 yards, and I am not the best shot in the world.
It doesn't fit most hands well. Again, it is meant for deep concealment, which means you have sacrifices to make. The benefit of this gun is also a negative factor in some ways. A grip extension helps in this area.
I get a kick out of the "not enough gun" comments. A .380 is a decent defensive round, albeit, not the best. Every gun that is carried is a compromise in some way. With the LCP, you can carry it with you, regardless of the attire you are wearing or where you are going. And even though it is "just a .380", I still don't know anybody that wants to be shot by one.
I feel fine carrying the LCP with an extra mag in my pocket. I am not ready for "everything", but at least I have something.
My wife has an LCP for formal occasions where a G-19 won't work because there's nowhere to put it. She has a small purse that can hold a makeup mirror and a tube of lipstick. Also happens to hold an LCP pretty well. Ideal? No. But the best gun to have is the gun you can have with you and I like looking at her in cocktail dresses.
Let's hear it for suit jackets, sport coats and the armament you can stash underneath them.
Evil1969SS>LS6
11-17-10, 08:13
Yea I agree MarkM, no less than a .50 cal desert eagle w/ 100 rds. Should be carried....seriously, what's scary is when people make ignorant statements dissrespecting ANY caliber, I don't want a dome shot from any! Albeit they were designed for one thing only. Besides what did you expect? Stellar results from some backyard ballistics with some shit ass ammo from years ago? Some .380 ammo today has ballistics up around 38 special territory...but, that caliber suck too huh? Ok, besides that I love my LCP..its better than my P3AT in fit & finish and very reliable plus if 6 or 7 rounds aren't enough(if not then you got a big problem) Promag make 10 rd. Mags. its perfect for summer garments cause it doesn't have a big obvious print in your pocket for the public to see. Which is the whole point, for the element of suprise...besides when the perp. Can See that you have a firearm on you that's the first thing he/she is going for...or counter attack. But if winter time comes and the clothing I'm wearing alowes it, I carry my 45M&P.
StrikerFired
11-17-10, 08:16
I have my LCP on me everyday, everywhere I go. I've had the no problems with either factory or my reloads through it but I haven't been able to decide on a carry ammo yet. I am caught between Gold Dot's and Hornady CD rounds.
I have my LCP on me everyday, everywhere I go. I've had the no problems with either factory or my reloads through it but I haven't been able to decide on a carry ammo yet. I am caught between Gold Dot's and Hornady CD rounds.
I carry FMJs in my LCP during the winter months. I'm worried about lack of penetration through heavy winter clothes. During the rest of the year I use hollow points--Gold Dots are what I can get locally and they have worked quite well in the gun.
Corbon Powerball and Hornady Critical Defense rounds work well in my LCP. Remington Golden Sabres jam up in it.
As others have said, it is good for carrying but not a gun you'd want to shoot much. PPKs and clones, like the Bersa, are better for shooting. Makarovs are nice too, but ammo for them is less common in local stores.
If you are serious about getting a good SMALL pocket pistol, I would highly consider getting the SIG P238. I have shot multiple Ruger LCP's and I just didn't like they way they shot and the sights etc.
The P238 is just as small, but MUCH better quality! It shoots much smoother and is more accurate with much better sights. It is built with a 1911 style frame and, for a pocket pistol, it's a dream to shoot.
I have put over 500 rounds (of multiple types of ammo) through mine without a single misfire, ftf, stovepipe, etc. I've never had a single problem.
I carry my P238 loaded with Hornady Critical Defense ammo, and usually only carry it as a BUG. But it is a great gun, very small, and I would trust my life with it. IMO, it's definitely one to highly consider if you want to get a good pocket pistol.
Most of the comments so far that have been negative seem to emphasize the "inadequate" caliber, the small grip, and the small sights.
No reasonable handgun caliber is a death ray. Even the .44 magnum has been known to fail to stop with one solidly placed hit. I want a small grip so that it will not print. When you have a ccw ("hero's license"?) you are required to keep the gun concealed to prevent public alarm. The small sights aid greatly in a snag free draw and are adequate for the short ranges these pistols are generally used.
To me, in order of their importance, the most desirable features are: 1) light weight, 2) small size with good ergonomics, and 3) a caliber that gives adequate reliability of function and penetration.(avoid .22s)
Also, I wonder about the comments concerning reliability when many here would not trust a Colt 1911 out of the box. One of the few autos I would trust out of the box is a Glock, and even they sometimes have problems.
The LCP is an excellent choice for anyone who wants to be able to protect themselves from unexpected aggression in ordinary every day life. I prefer a KT .32 though, but that is just me.
Unless you are a cop why are you going some place where you think you may need a "real" weapon? If you think that you might be involved in a gun fight, get away from there!
When I bought mine it had problems feeding. Every 10-15 rounds the slide would not return 100%.
My chamber rim had a bur in it so I took a dremmel tool and polished the chamber mouth and feed ramp to a mirror shine along with removing that bur. I also ordered an 11 lb. recoil spring* from Wolf and I have had about 400 flawless rounds since then.
*I believe they only come stock with a 9 lb. spring.
I carry Remington Golden Sabers and they work fine.
People say .380 is weak, and it is, but it's better than no gun at all. I carry it like I carry my wallet, cell, knife.
The P238 is just as small, but MUCH better quality! It shoots much smoother and is more accurate with much better sights. It is built with a 1911 style frame and, for a pocket pistol, it's a dream to shoot.
I have owned a P238. I had a LCP first but moved to the P238 because of the 1911 "style", the better trigger, the real Night Sights, etc. It was fantastic to shoot. However, it was NOT what I would call "just as small". Dimensions aren't that far off but the P238 felt MUCH wider, partly due to the controls. It was also MUCH heavier. These to things alone ... weight & width/shape difference made it less desirable as a pocket gun. My philosophy is this ... if you have to put it in a IWB or OWB rig you might as well carry your primary weapon. I sold my P238 and went back to pocket carrying a LCP. YMMV.
A good friend of mine calls it the Ruger "Little Crappy Pistol" for good reason. We have had quite a few officers bring the LCP out to qualify with as a BUG and find out that their new cute pistol does not function very well. We have seen multiple failures to feed and failures to fire.
The pistol lacks decent sights. I'm not sure that I would want to get into a gun fight with a pistol that I could not shoot easily during a stressful encounter. I understand that having a small pistol is better than have no pistol at all.
My recommendation would be a Smith and Wesson 5-shot .38 revolver. It had better sights,reliablity, and ballistics. I can easily keep 5 shots on a b-27 at 50 yards.
I second this for the Smith and Wesson 5 Shot especially for a LEO BUG...If a LEO needs his BUG it is a bad day....it better go bang and you better have trained with it. That is my choice and it works for me. I do know guys with the LCP and love it. It serves it's purpose for what it is designed to do. It is just not for me.
John_Wayne777
02-16-11, 07:06
Folks, let's be reasonable about this.
The .380 has earned a rather dismal reputation as a fight stopper. Even with the advances in ammunition available to us today it's not much improved. Today there are some very light, very small pistols available in .380 which has made for a resurgence in the popularity of the caliber because light and small will always be popular in handguns.
Note that right and popular are two different concepts.
Weapons like the LCP are extremely limited tools that frankly most people will never learn to use properly. I often hear "shot placement!" being screamed in discussions about mouseguns, generally by people who couldn't place an acceptable shot with a full-sized service pistol under ideal range conditions. They somehow believe that under extreme stress suddenly they are going to use this tiny pistol in an anemic caliber to place shots into a bad guy's vital organs with laser-like precision. Magic 8 ball says: Outlook not good.
Equally true is that everyone on the planet does not have the ability to pack a service grade handgun on them everywhere they go at all times. It's difficult to carry my typical loadout in a pair of track pants at the gym. I can keep the LCP in my pocket when I'm on the treadmill with the S&W 442 hanging on the treadmill inside the fanny pack. By no means the world's most ideal loadout should someone decide to start a gunfight with me while I'm on the treadmill...but it's far better than harsh language.
That's ultimately the point of guns like the LCP...they are extremely limited tools, but they're better than a sharp stick. A .380 isn't a fight stopper as far as physics go, but whipping out a firearm of any sort generally tends to make most bad guys try and seek an easier target.
The danger is complacency. The majority of us do not find ourselves needing to shoot someone on a regular basis. As such you often see that when people have the light, small, extremely limited tool that they gravitate toward it in their daily carry because a real gun is "too big" and "too heavy" and besides, it's not like they're going to need more than a couple of shots anyway. That is when it gets exceptionally stupid. Leaving the Glock 19 at home and picking the LCP simply because you don't want to bother with the real gun is a supremely bad decision if you actually find yourself needing to use the weapon.
...and that is why we're carrying a gun in the first place. To have an effective means of making a bad guy's hostile actions stop before we're killed or seriously injured. If in a given situation the LCP is the best you can do, so be it...but the majority of people who moan that they can't carry anything bigger aren't even close to being correct.
willowofwisp
02-16-11, 08:40
John,
that is by far one of the best posts I have read in awhile, good job and I fully agree.
Rmplstlskn
02-16-11, 08:57
Life is RISKY, we do what we best think is best for us individually...
I know I would NOT want to be hit with a .380 anywhere on my body, and I also know that MOST people who may try to shoot me with a mini-pistol will most likely be POORLY trained with terrible shot placement, so I have a very high likelyhood of surviving such an encounter. So in that scenario, I would prefer to be hit with the .380 over a 9mm or .40 S&W, and return with a kill shot (i hope).
I have been looking into the LCP to replace an even less effective lightweight, POCKET CARRY I have been using, my NA Arms Black Widow mini-revolver in .22 Magnum.
http://www.naaminis.com/pix/bw01.jpg
Some, maybe even most, may think it stupid or foolish, but I do not like to carry full-size, I find it uncomfortable and burdensome, and I only do so when I think the POTENTIAL threats warrant it (back to my life is risky comment above). And I tend to opt for a fanny pack over a holster when I do carry full-size... That is the choices I have made and I am willing to deal with the consequences if it all goes to hell one day... which is why even a .380 is better than nothing at all...
To compensate, I always have a full-size XD in my vehicle, concealed and very easy to get to quickly. So I am covered with a full-size at home and in my vehicle, which is a large portion of my RISK percentage... My risk factor goes up when I leave my home or vehicle... but it is acceptable to me, at this time in our societal and local conditional environment.
I tried the bigger .380 route with a Bersa Thunder380, an excellent, accurate, reliable .380, yet it was HEAVY and for the weight, I might have well carried full-size...
So for those times I want something better than nothing, when I knowingly and willingly accept the risks of my inadequate choice in pistol, I am glad options like the LCP are now coming commonplace...
I just wish the trigger was better on the LCP, like the sweet trigger on the LCR... That is the only thing holding me back from the LCP now, as I am seeing what other mini-pistol options I have available...
Rmpl
Beat Trash
02-16-11, 13:19
John Wayne 777 has made some very valid points.
The LCP is a niche tool for specific situations. If an individual is thinking the LCP makes a good primary carry gun for everyday carry, well this is America, so have at it. But I wouldn't.
With any handgun caliber, shot placement is extremely important. With smaller calibers such as the 380 acp, it's vital! Yes, I have seen many killed over the years with a 380. I've also seen 32acp and 22lr kill. But those were mostly close (read almost contact shots) or dumb luck shots. This doesn't mean I'm ready to trade my 9mm's in for 380's or 22lr's.
I bring this up as I discuss the lack of real sights on the LCP, and the difficulty to put rounds on target with this gun while under less than ideal shooting conditions. As a BUG or deep concealment gun, you may have to shoot one handed, from cover, while on the ground laying on your back, on your side, ect. You could be injured and not have a tight grip on the gun also. Well, you get the idea.
I can and do carry a Glock 19 for about 95% of the time I'm off-duty and not in uniform. The other 5% of the time, my Kahr PM9 works for me.
Test your LCP and ensure it's reliable (but then one should test any gun for reliability prior to trusting it, no matter the brand), Then if you understand the limitations of the design and caliber, and plan your tactics accordingly, then I would carry a LCP. But anytime I could carry a more substantial gun, then I would.
John_Wayne777
02-16-11, 13:34
I highly recommend purchase of the CT laser module for the LCP if you own one even as a tertiary weapon. The laser makes hitting a target much easier with that little weapon...and it's the only way to have a useful low light aiming reference on it short of custom work which costs a lot more than the laser.
On other boards I've mentioned the laser and I've seen people who screamed like spanked little girls about shot placement assert with absolute confidence that lasers on an LCP were a waste of money because you didn't need one to hit something the size of a Q target at 5 feet. I usually abandoned the conversation after that to help resist the urge to track them down and peel their faces off with a grapefruit spoon.
I highly recommend purchase of the CT laser module for the LCP if you own one even as a tertiary weapon. The laser makes hitting a target much easier with that little weapon...and it's the only way to have a useful low light aiming reference on it short of custom work which costs a lot more than the laser.
On other boards I've mentioned the laser and I've seen people who screamed like spanked little girls about shot placement assert with absolute confidence that lasers on an LCP were a waste of money because you didn't need one to hit something the size of a Q target at 5 feet. I usually abandoned the conversation after that to help resist the urge to track them down and peel their faces off with a grapefruit spoon.
I can't reiterate this enough. A CT unit transforms the LCP, at least for me, into a gun I can actually shoot OK at distances outside touching on a perfectly sunny day.
My main issues with the LCP when I got it were that the trigger was difficult to squeeze while keeping the gun steady, the sights are barely visible even in ideal circumstances, and the recoil was more than I was used to in a pistol. Shooting it a lot fixed my trigger problem (I believe the parts polished a bit as well as building the right muscles up more for shooting a tiny pistol) and also eliminated the couple feed issues that cropped up in the first couple of magazines (I was certainly either limp wristing or the springs broke in). The CT laser completely fixed the sights being difficult to pick up.
I carry my LCP as a back up gun regularly, especially in the summer. With a quality holster it absolutely disappears in a pocket or on your ankle. .380 is the smallest caliber I feel comfortable carrying, and I use FMJ ammo with it in the winter to ensure enough penetration.
Beat Trash
02-16-11, 16:28
I highly recommend purchase of the CT laser module for the LCP if you own one even as a tertiary weapon. The laser makes hitting a target much easier with that little weapon...and it's the only way to have a useful low light aiming reference on it short of custom work which costs a lot more than the laser.
On other boards I've mentioned the laser and I've seen people who screamed like spanked little girls about shot placement assert with absolute confidence that lasers on an LCP were a waste of money because you didn't need one to hit something the size of a Q target at 5 feet. I usually abandoned the conversation after that to help resist the urge to track them down and peel their faces off with a grapefruit spoon.
This is why I only tend to spend my time on two or three boards. So many grapefruit spoons, so little time!
I agree with the CT laser for the LCP, I recently spent some time with one on a 642 revolver. It also makes a huge difference on that gun also...
Folks, let's be reasonable about this.
The .380 has earned a rather dismal reputation as a fight stopper. Even with the advances in ammunition available to us today it's not much improved. Today there are some very light, very small pistols available in .380 which has made for a resurgence in the popularity of the caliber because light and small will always be popular in handguns.
Note that right and popular are two different concepts.
Weapons like the LCP are extremely limited tools that frankly most people will never learn to use properly. I often hear "shot placement!" being screamed in discussions about mouseguns, generally by people who couldn't place an acceptable shot with a full-sized service pistol under ideal range conditions. They somehow believe that under extreme stress suddenly they are going to use this tiny pistol in an anemic caliber to place shots into a bad guy's vital organs with laser-like precision. Magic 8 ball says: Outlook not good.
Equally true is that everyone on the planet does not have the ability to pack a service grade handgun on them everywhere they go at all times. It's difficult to carry my typical loadout in a pair of track pants at the gym. I can keep the LCP in my pocket when I'm on the treadmill with the S&W 442 hanging on the treadmill inside the fanny pack. By no means the world's most ideal loadout should someone decide to start a gunfight with me while I'm on the treadmill...but it's far better than harsh language.
That's ultimately the point of guns like the LCP...they are extremely limited tools, but they're better than a sharp stick. A .380 isn't a fight stopper as far as physics go, but whipping out a firearm of any sort generally tends to make most bad guys try and seek an easier target.
The danger is complacency. The majority of us do not find ourselves needing to shoot someone on a regular basis. As such you often see that when people have the light, small, extremely limited tool that they gravitate toward it in their daily carry because a real gun is "too big" and "too heavy" and besides, it's not like they're going to need more than a couple of shots anyway. That is when it gets exceptionally stupid. Leaving the Glock 19 at home and picking the LCP simply because you don't want to bother with the real gun is a supremely bad decision if you actually find yourself needing to use the weapon.
...and that is why we're carrying a gun in the first place. To have an effective means of making a bad guy's hostile actions stop before we're killed or seriously injured. If in a given situation the LCP is the best you can do, so be it...but the majority of people who moan that they can't carry anything bigger aren't even close to being correct.
You make some really great points. I just purchased an LCP and could not be happier so far. Yes, .380 sucks, But being a skinny guy there is no way that I can completely hide my Kahr PM9 or my wifes J frame air weight day inn and day out, in casual attire. If I was a big guy maybe it would work. I think that a lot of people screaming that they would only carry a real gun do not have to worry about being "made".
I carry a full size gun when I can(M&P9 or 5inch 1911). The LCP lets me fill in the gaps. Ever run with a PM9 in cargo shorts? It sucks bad enough to make me put it in my Camelbak, which is soooo slow to access. I think the LCP would be better in a pocket. At least I would not have to call time out while I try and get to it.
I have one, really like it, and am fully aware that the .380 rd is a weak sister. It would, though, get the job done if barrel/slide were inserted into the ear or crotch and then fired. As an elderly arthritic guy I'm in no condition to fight fair.
I've had an LCP from just about the git-go. While I've read that it's a "lame" round as I have never shot anyone I just don't know. That said, working in a Trauma ER in the inner city I know I was involved in a few GSW to the head with a 380 round and all were fatal. In the old days the Mossad favored a 22 LR and always said 2 or 3 shots to the nose will stop anyone even if your aim is a bit off but close range hits to the face even with hot coffee tend to have that effect. Clearly a larger round has more impact but it depends to some extent on ones priority for carry. I'm not a LEO and for me concealment takes top priority, followed by comfort of carry. Both of these are what the LCP does really well and in a worst case event, I probably have a mouse gun in my pocket, my bumper sticker says my other gun is a howitzer.
I have had an LCP for a while and never carried it. Why? Because I like carrying pistols that have a full grip. The pistols I carry most often are the Glock 19 and HK P7. I have never been a fan of the G26 because I just don't like small pistols.
That being said, I have been running unarmed because, well, a Glock 19 is 2 lbs - and it bounces in a fanny pack, and it abrades my skin in an IWB. I tried a chest pack and it is not terrible, but I only ran with it 2-3 times and then never bothered. My area is just too safe to strap on all of that stuff.
So then I got a NANO - but it is 23 oz loaded - and so it still will move around a lot. So while there are 9mm that are physically small, none are really light like the LCP. A loaded LCP is just 12 oz - lighter, thinner, much easier to shoot well, and smaller than my Airweight 38.
A LaserMax is arriving tomorrow.
I have seen mixed test results. In some of them, some expanding rounds make 12 inches, but then in others, they do not. It seems like if you want 12+ inches of penetration all of the time, you need FMJ. DPX looks interesting if you are ok with 8-11 inches of penetration.
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf
Just got this clip - very useful it seems. I should be able to run with this when I don't want to wear a belt and a real holster.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8015/lcpclipsmall.jpg
Five_Point_Five_Six
01-31-13, 19:12
A 12 oz pistol with a 10 lb trigger, crappy sights in an anemic caliber isn't exactly a recipe for success.
ETA: Just realized this thread was necro'd from almost 2 years ago.
I have seen mixed test results. In some of them, some expanding rounds make 12 inches, but then in others, they do not. It seems like if you want 12+ inches of penetration all of the time, you need FMJ. DPX looks interesting if you are ok with 8-11 inches of penetration.
Characteristic of the Barnes bullets in general, the 380 DPX was quite a bit more consistent through different mediums than others in the caliber in some tests I've been to. It has also fed better than some others in guns with quirks, most notably the Keltec P3AT and Sig P238.
A buddy just picked up a few hundred to run through his LCP, so there should be some more info flowing.
A 12 oz pistol with a 10 lb trigger, crappy sights in an anemic caliber isn't exactly a recipe for success.
I can't hit *anything* with my expensive Airweight 38 but can hit just fine with the LCP. I have no problem with the trigger or sights.
9mm is the minimum cartridge which reliable does 15 inches deep, expands, and does it through all standard barriers.
380 FMJ makes a 15 inch deep 0.355 hole into 10% ballistic gel - through the full range of barriers. What it does not do is expand if you use FMJ. And the expanding ammunition does not go 15 inches deep. So it is not suitable for general use.
TurretGunner
01-31-13, 21:19
I had one and hated it.
Weak round, Terrible Trigger, Terrible sights(if you can call them that), and feels like a firecracker going off in your hand.
Move up to a g26 if you can. Even a PPS or Shield would be a better choice.
Firecracker going off in your hand? That is what I think of my Glock 36.
I would like to think that everyone who is carrying a 380 only does so when they, if it were not for the 380, would have not carried any gun.
Hate the Glock 26 (I own one - too fat for its size). The Shield seems great, and I have one on order. PPS has a new lower price - about $200 less than before, so is a decent deal now.
I would like to think that everyone who is carrying a 380 only does so when they, if it were not for the 380, would have not carried any gun.
For my size, dress, and needs, I have NO circumstance in which I could carry an LCP but nothing larger. For most, if there's space for an LCP there's space for a J frame, PM9, or something better.
Hate the Glock 26 (I own one - too fat for its size). The Shield seems great, and I have one on order. PPS has a new lower price - about $200 less than before, so is a decent deal now.
I use the 26, and have a Shield on loan to play with. The PPS in 40 might be easy to carry but sucks to shoot. The 9 may be better.
The LCP is capable, but requires some discipline, compromise, and acceptance of limitations.
For most people, 40 hurts their ability to be accurate - even in full size pistols, and makes even less sense in pocket pistols. Yet 40 outsells 9mm by 3-1. Go figure.
Some people hate the LCP and think its crap, just like lots of people feel about say kel-tec. And just like kel-tec, there are lots of good lcp's out there as well as bad. If you want one, make sure you put a couple hundred rounds threw it before trusting it. My body type means pretty much everything I conceal shows unless I carry in my pocket and my kahr PM9 fits fine, I don't see the need for something like the LCP.
I don't see those trashing the effectiveness of the .380 cartridge lining up to stand in front of one to prove their point . . .
All kidding aside - I had an LCP with the CT laser (wasn't planning on getting the laser-equipped version as I am not a fan of lasers but wow, the sights are pretty brutal and utterly useless in low-light conditions). It was an absolute pleasure to carry. However, it was unreliable out of the box. After installing a Wolff recoil spring, it functioned flawlessly with all sorts of factory JHP and FMJ ammunition.
I hated shooting it at the range. The trigger guard tore my finger up. Once Raven came out with the VG2, I sold it and started carrying my G26 exclusively. I don't miss the LCP.
All that being said, it does serve a purpose and is certainly better than nothing. I wasn't worried about the round being underpowered, I was worried about whether it would function. The initial malfunction-heavy range sessions were always in the back of my mind.
I got an LCP and I would have bought the Khar P380 had I to do it again. Mostly due to sights and trigger. the Ruger is much cheaper though. I rarely carry the little guy unless its too hot and my clothing limits me, ill carry my XDs or baby Glock if I can.
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5056/lcppocket.jpg
Five_Point_Five_Six
02-01-13, 10:23
I don't see those trashing the effectiveness of the .380 cartridge lining up to stand in front of one to prove their point . . .
That straw man is sooooo 2008.
That straw man is sooooo 2008.
Apparently you missed the line directly below that:
"All kidding aside . . ."
I ask only one thing. If you're going to reply to one of my posts (let alone quote it), read the entire thing. Then I wouldn't have to bother with replies like these.
No one should criticize 380, 32, or 22 magnum unless they currently are carrying 9mm or larger. And by currently, I mean exactly right now.
No one should criticize 380, 32, or 22 magnum unless they currently are carrying 9mm or larger. And by currently, I mean exactly right now.
I'm currently carrying TWO 9MMs - a P228 and a S&W Shield. does that count??.
I am working on my laptop at home, and so I would not normally have my G19 strapped on. But I do have the LCP on now.
If I were out and about, and wearing pants that have a belt, then I would have a 9mm.
Five_Point_Five_Six
02-01-13, 17:25
Apparently you missed the line directly below that:
"All kidding aside . . ."
I ask only one thing. If you're going to reply to one of my posts (let alone quote it), read the entire thing. Then I wouldn't have to bother with replies like these.
Apparently you missed something as well, I'll let you guess what that is.
Five_Point_Five_Six
02-01-13, 17:28
No one should criticize 380, 32, or 22 magnum unless they currently are carrying 9mm or larger. And by currently, I mean exactly right now.
I am carrying a 9mm right now. Laying on the couch with the flu, never bothered to take it off after dropping my kid off at school this morning.
I had one and hated it.
Weak round, Terrible Trigger, Terrible sights(if you can call them that), and feels like a firecracker going off in your hand.
Move up to a g26 if you can. Even a PPS or Shield would be a better choice.
Alright. I shot it today and the Glock 36 again. The LCP did seem to have more recoil, and it was much like a firecracker in my hand.
This is a what I could do with Golden Saber at 50 feet offhand (50 feet is way farther than I would expect to shoot in real life). The black circle is 5 inches. I also tried about 30 shots with an NAA mini revolver in 22 and got *zero* hits on paper. None.
My plan is to always carry the LCP (when legal - not on airplanes and such), and then when I want to carry a gun, add on the P7.
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/52/lcp50feet.jpg
TriviaMonster
02-01-13, 22:32
My LCP is gym shorts duty only, pretty much. Its not ideal and if I ever had to use it I pray it would scare them off so I wouldn't piss them off if I had to shoot.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
A 12 oz pistol with a 10 lb trigger, crappy sights in an anemic caliber isn't exactly a recipe for success.
ETA: Just realized this thread was necro'd from almost 2 years ago.
I have not measured it, but the trigger on my LCP is substantially lighter than 10lb. In our local BUG match this summer, I won my division with my LCP, and one stage outright, against shooters with G26, SA EMP, S&W 65 3", etc. For what it is, at that match I was impressed with what a capable little gun it is. A bit of white appliance touch-up enamel on the front sight made it much more visible.
EDIT: I do not experience the "firecracker in the hand" thing, even in a 100+ round match. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Loves mines....got laser grips, stainless steel guide rod, Wolff springs for recoil heavy....
I carry an extra magazine and has been ultra reliable to me.
Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2
Apparently you missed something as well, I'll let you guess what that is.
No hard feelings.
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