Questions before I join the AR club

[Radioflyer]

After shooting an unknown brand of AR at my local range, I REALLY want one. It's primary use would be a multi-purpose serving as a home defense gun, plinker and possibly carbine competition gun (especially if IDPA deecides to get a carbine catagory)

Question 1: what are the pros and cons of direct gas v. piston setups? I've talked to two AR guys and both swear by their different setups.

Question 2: what features should I look to get if i plan to expand later, but without breaking the bank now?

Question 3: Suggested brand for a complete weapon (as opposed to building my own. I'm not that familier with the internals yet to do that)

Question 4: Anything parts wise I should as a newb to the AR world? (parts that require unique tools, specilized maintence or that wear out quickly)

thanks.

[mike_556]

The search button, as well as the links tacked up above, are your friend..;)

[Hmac]

Opinions vary, but IMHO direct impingement is simpler, easier, and is what the AR-15/M-16 platform was designed for.

Otherwise, asking for advice about what AR to get will net you many, many different answers. You'll need to specify what you want to use it for (that will determine barrel length, stock, rails/grips) and your budget.

Take a look at The Chart (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html)....yes, you (or your buddies or local gun shop owner) might question its validity for non-military applications, but if you're the type of person that wants his firearms to be of high quality then you'll have to be judging the quality of an AR battle rifle by how closely it adheres to the specifications that the platform was designed around. The Chart is useful as a general guide to how closely some of the manufacturers stick to the higher quality components and manufacturing methods as defined by what the military specifications are. Some mfgrs exceed milspec, some are well below. You can rationalize buying something in that latter category by saying "I'm not going to be taking this thing to war", but at least you can have a good understanding of the general quality of the rifle you're buying. Also, bear in mind that some of the lower-level mfgrs are still riding the wave of assault rifle panic-buying and have priced their rifles accordingly. You can get a lot more rifle for your money with Spike's or Bravo Company, for example, than you can with DPMS, Bushmaster, or Stag.

Otherwise...DO make sure you go through the various introductory threads on this site. They will answer many of your questions. And be very careful about getting advice from your local gun shop or your buddies at the range. On average, you'll get bad or incomplete advice because the gun shop is trying to sell you something and your buddies are emotionally invested in their choice and will defend it vigorously. Best to spend a lot of time here on M4C and get a distillation of opinions so you can apply them to your decision. You'll see a lot of disagreement here, but you will be able to sort out some important general trends of advice as to brands and features.


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[markm]

Don't make the piston heartache your first entry into the AR realm.

[RogerinTPA]

After shooting an unknown brand of AR at my local range, I REALLY want one. It's primary use would be a multi-purpose serving as a home defense gun, plinker and possibly carbine competition gun (especially if IDPA deecides to get a carbine catagory)

Question 1: what are the pros and cons of direct gas v. piston setups? I've talked to two AR guys and both swear by their different setups. Both are gas systems. The traditional AR uses Direct gas impingement, the piston uses a gas tappet. The DI gun cost less, is more reliable, and there are way more parts available. The Piston is a solution in search of problem, cost more, has it's own set of problematic issues, no true standard for manufacturers to follow (specifically the piston conversion kits), and only a few who makes them can actually claim reasonable reliability or parity, with or over a standard DI gun (LMT, FN SCAR, and HK). The prolific claim that Piston guns run cleaner, and that an AR needs a demonic cleaning schedule, is a myth. The carbon is just deposited on the other end of the piston gun. AR will run "dirty and wet (well lubed) but not dirty and dry. I personally have run a couple of mine up to 4000 rounds with just a lubed BCG.

Question 2: what features should I look to get if i plan to expand later, but without breaking the bank now? Refer to the "Chart" for M4 type platforms, by Rob_S, which breaks down which manufacturer follow the military TDP, often referred to as "MilSpec" and those who do not. Read the entire chart and all explanations.
Question 3: Suggested brand for a complete weapon (as opposed to building my own. I'm not that familier with the internals yet to do that). Colt, BCM, Noveske, LMT are the weapons you want to go with. Prices are very reasonable now so there is no need to settle.


Question 4: Anything parts wise I should as a newb to the AR world? (parts that require unique tools, specilized maintence or that wear out quickly) thanks.The Chart, explains these features

As stated, use the yellow search button at the top.

PS: Ignore all of your friends and gun shop employees advice.

[armakraut]

What is your price range?

[QuadBomb]

I don't have much to contribute beyond what the others have said, in terms of what brand to get. But, I can say that I entered into the AR world thinking that Gas Piston was the solution to the rifle's problems. I even went so far as to purchase a conversion kit to install on my upper receiver. Now I know better. Thankfully, that kit never got installed.

No matter how many times you hear it in Defense Review, wikipedia or any GI you talk to, direct gas impingement is not an inherent weakness of the AR. The working parts of the AR family of weapons do run hotter and with more carbon than other modern systems, but they are designed to work that way. Words from any drill instructor or soldier notwithstanding, the AR15 family of weapons absolutely does not need to be perfectly clean to function. There are many ways to jam an AR15, but carbon from the action is not one of them. The problems we have with them in the military stem from over-cleaning, not from any design flaw.

When you consider the increase in accuracy and reliability that is inherent in the lack of a piston system, you'll realize the genius behind the Stoner-type gas system.

[kmrtnsn]

Last year at a carbine course I had the opportunity to T&E 1,500+ rounds through the new BCM Middy EAG rifle. I would recommend it, or a similarly configured rifle to anyone looking for an all-around utility weapon.

[Iraqgunz]

Please take the time to look around so others don't have to do your homework for you.