View Full Version : Thinking of switching from eotech to ACOG
dieselgeek
11-14-10, 11:02
Right now I have an eotech 512 with a PA magnifier on my DDM4. *I noticed one the magnifier is on the gun feels pretty heavy. * *Depending on how much the guy is asking I was thinking of switching over to a TA31DOC. *Any thoughts? Pros, cons? *Of switching to this set up? *
TIA
Ryan.*
friendlyfireisnt
11-14-10, 13:22
The TA31 ACOG's have exceptionally short eye relief, which is obviously not ideal.
Better choice, at least to me, is the TA11 series or even better the TA33 series.
I had a TA33GH, and it was a fantastic optic. I swapped it out eventually for an Aimpoint, but I will probably get another one eventually.
Alaskapopo
11-14-10, 14:28
Right now I have an eotech 512 with a PA magnifier on my DDM4. *I noticed one the magnifier is on the gun feels pretty heavy. * *Depending on how much the guy is asking I was thinking of switching over to a TA31DOC. *Any thoughts? Pros, cons? *Of switching to this set up? *
TIA
Ryan.*
I would not get the DOC model. Get a Aimpoint in an off set mount from Larue. The TA31 doc puts the red dot on top which makes it far harder to use. Also I would go with a TA11 with the T1 in the off set Larue.
Pat
Like this but substitute a TA11 for the TA33. Unless you want it really light weight then go with the TA33.
Pat
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/sideviewofcolt.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/ACOG.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/ViewthroughAImpoint1.jpg
I would recommend a good low power variable however over the other options. (ACOG and mini red dot, and Red dot with magnifier)
Pros and Cons
1. Red dot with Magnifer.
Pro you still have a easy to use in akward position red dot when the magnifier is flipped to the side. The red dot is faster slightly at close range because of this. Pro's this is also the least expensive set up and if you have multiple rifles with red dots you can share a magnifier with all of them saving on cost. ( I did this for a while)
Cons. You have no easy way to shoot past 300 yards even with magnification due to having no hold over points (except on one Eotech model) and no fast way to dial the scope in on the fly. Also the red dot is not as sharp as a scope's reticle and makes it harder to shoot precise groups. (at least in my experience) Also you only have 1x and 3x or 4x nothing in between. In the unlikely event of a battery failure you are SOL or if you get nuked with a EMP your SOL.
2. Acog (fixed optic with magnification) and mini red dot.
Pro's You get a bullet drop compensator and an excellent medium range set up in the ACOG and and you get a excellent close quarters sight in the red dot. The optics back each other up so if one were to fail you have the other ready for instant use. Both overlap. Meaning you can use the ACOG at close range in a pinch and you can use the red dot out to 200 if needed on full sized targets. Also transition from scope to scope is faster than rotating the power ring on most scopes even with a cat tail. I tried this set up for a while with a TA33 and a T1 Aimpoint.
Cons. No in the middle magnification and having to get used to canting the rifle to shoot the off set red dot or having to raise your head up to shoot a piggy backed red dot. If you get nuked with an EMP your mini dot is going down same if the batteries die but hey your ACOG will still work. Going around right side corners with the off set sight leaves you weapon showing sooner because its canted.
3. Good variable power scope like a Swarovski Z6i 1-6x BRT.
PRO's on 1x its nearly as fast as a red dot or just as fast depending on who you talk to. The top end is 6x wish is better than most ACOGs except the largest models. You get all the power ranges in between. 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. Scope has a bullet drop compensator in mills. (you need to figure out your own loads dope). Natural head position no having to shift head or cant gun just shot and dial in the magnification as needed. If batteries die no big deal you still have a usable black reticle.
A good low power variable is 95% as good as a red dot at close range and its 90% as good as higher power tactical optics (2.5-10x scopes, 2.5-8 etc) at longer range. Generally its a great do all optic.
dieselgeek
11-14-10, 16:01
Wow, that was great. Thank you.
Given the far more forgiving eye relief, you're not realistically losing anything in terms of magnification by going with an -11 or -33 for your primary.
You have a great many possibilities when it comes to offset RDSs, so you don't absolutely have to hang one off the top of your primary optic and sacrifice stock weld and up the likelihood of damage to the dot sight.
Agreed on variable-mag as a possible option. Lots of good stuff out there, take a look at the sticky thread on 1-4x optics.
The TA31 ACOG's have exceptionally short eye relief, which is obviously not ideal.
Better choice, at least to me, is the TA11 series or even better the TA33 series.
I had a TA33GH, and it was a fantastic optic. I swapped it out eventually for an Aimpoint, but I will probably get another one eventually.
I own a TA31F and I do agree that the TA31's do have a short eye relief, only if you close one eye while looking through the scope. The ACOG's were designed to be used with both eyes open due to the BAC (Bindon Aiming Concept) (http://www.trijicon.com/aiming.cfm). When you have both eyes open you have a wide view as the the chevron is projected like a head up display and you can train yourself to switch from magnified view to a CQB view. Yes it does take some time to get used to and it may not be ideal for everybody but it works great for me. My suggestion is to go to a gun shop or find someone that has different optics and try them out. That way you will know what works and what doesn't.
For those whom own Aimpoints or EOTech's, I am in no way saying that the ACOG is a superior optic, they are all great optics and none are superior than the others.
I chose the Trijicon for several reasons:
Lighter in weight since you have the magnification built in on a scope that works in both CQ and long distance. Aimpoint and EOTech requires an additional magnifier.
Trijicon does not require batteries since it has the tritium for low light and fiber optics.
If you need to have a red dot sight, Trijicon makes a RMR (http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=13) red dot sight that you can attach to the top of the ACOG. They make both a battery operated RMR (http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=13) or a tritium/fiber optic version.
Do the research, try them out; most really good gun shops will mount each of the scopes to a rifle so you can get a feel for each of them. Good luck. :)
Trijicon makes a TA-33RMR. I would look in to that. Better eye relief, more rugged MRD. I run the TA01ECOS/DOC, which I really like. It works.
When you're up close, do not forget your offsets for precision shooting (i.e., a hostage shot--this applies both to std Aimpoints and the ACOG/DOC with RDS mounted high up).
Trijicon makes a TA-33RMR. I would look in to that. Better eye relief, more rugged MRD. I run the TA01ECOS/DOC, which I really like. It works.
When you're up close, do not forget your offsets for precision shooting (i.e., a hostage shot--this applies both to std Aimpoints and the ACOG/DOC with RDS mounted high up).
I have a TA31F, I need to get a RMR to mount on top but the ACOG ate up my BRD fund...LOL. That is one of my next purchases...maybe a Christmas present to myself Ha Ha...
Right now I have an eotech 512 with a PA magnifier on my DDM4. *I noticed one the magnifier is on the gun feels pretty heavy. * *Depending on how much the guy is asking I was thinking of switching over to a TA31DOC. *Any thoughts? Pros, cons? *Of switching to this set up? *
TIA
Ryan.*
When looking at the ACOG's, whether you decide to go with a 3x, 3.5x or 4x you may gain eye relief with the 3x but the size of the field of view at 100 yards drops. See the comparisons below:
TA33-8 (3x30) = 1.90" of eye relief / 19.30' of field of view @100yds.
TA11 (3.5x35) = 2.40" of eye relief / 28.90' of field of view @100yds.
TA31 (4x32) = 1.50" of eye relief / 36.80' of field of view @100yds.
So you lose something when choosing an ACOG. It all depends on what you prefer. With the Bindon Aiming Concept, because you can keep both eyes open, you can quickly and easily spot your target at 100 or 200 + yards away. Once you have acquired your target you can then concentrate on the magnified view of the target and the 4x allows me more field of view so I don't lose (a moving target :sarcastic:). That was my reasoning behind choosing the 4x32 (on top of the fact that the TA31's were the only 4x ACOG's where the BDC was calibrated on a 16" carbine). No I don't particularly like the 1½" of eye relief but the greater FOV was the better trade off...IMHO. :)
morbidbattlecry
11-24-10, 22:02
I think its worth noting that the Army and Marines both use the TA31 series of ACOGs. And while i don't own one i have used the 31 models and have never had trouble getting the right eye relief. Here also is a good site to compare different kinds of ACOGs http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_ACOG_Comparison_and_FAQ_s/386.htm
Morbid, NICE FIND.
All that technical info is solid, and charting it like that was a nice piece of work by the whomever authored it.
Rob_s, somebody stole your gimmick! :sarcastic:
My vote is the TA33. Light weight and you could still use it as rds. Would rather pair it up with a T1 though.....
I think its worth noting that the Army and Marines both use the TA31 series of ACOGs. And while i don't own one i have used the 31 models and have never had trouble getting the right eye relief. Here also is a good site to compare different kinds of ACOGs http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_ACOG_Comparison_and_FAQ_s/386.htm
Nice chart!
Singlestack Wonder
11-25-10, 10:11
I think its worth noting that the Army and Marines both use the TA31 series of ACOGs. And while i don't own one i have used the 31 models and have never had trouble getting the right eye relief. Here also is a good site to compare different kinds of ACOGs http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_ACOG_Comparison_and_FAQ_s/386.htm
Great chart seconded! It's strange that Trijicon does not post their reticule's sizing information. It took several phone calls to Trijicon to obtain the circle/dot size of the TA44SR-10. Oddly, whenever I got thru to tech support, they didn't know. The last time I tried, I asked the operator what the dimensions were and she pulled out a reference guide and gave them to me immediately. :confused: (Lesson learned, ask the operator!) :D
Or, ask to speak to their Mil/LE trainers.
Trainers know the stuff the people that shoot want to know.
Folks that man phones usually (not always) know the stuff the people that BUY want to know.
Ever since I bought the TA-33 ACOG I have never looked back on the purchase. I really think its worth the money and love the magnification for the little weight. Only thing that might be an issue is the reticule isn't bright enough if your inside a building looking out in broad daylight.
By the way does anyone know what size of flip caps the TA-33 takes?
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