New Glock 19 Gen 4 (one day good, one day bad)

[lightsareout]

Picked up my Glock 19 two weekends ago. Went shooting at the outdoor range and ran 100 rounds through it no jams or problems. It was in the 50s that day.

I went out to the range again this weekend (last time before they close it) and the temp outside was 35, a little cold but I wanted to get one more time in. Ran around 120 rounds through it and experienced the dreaded Gen 4 problems. I had bullets jam when trying to load (about 6), on one occasion it did not lock in open after the last round was fired, i had one casing bounce back and jam (stove pipe?). Also had casings coming right back at my face and hit me on the forehead and neck.

How can it shoot perfectly fine one day and not the next. Would the cold have impacted the performance at all?

[forgiven]

Ammunition?

Does the G19 suffer the same rare issues w/ the recoil spring or did they update the spring when it came out?

This is exactly why I got a 3rd gen.

[ehcarl2983]

The Gen 4 19 comes with the "03" spring which is the same one coming in the Gen 4 23. I'm not sure what to tell you, mine has run flawless for the first several hundred rounds (I don't have my round count chart available right now) and my father has one with around abouts 2k (I think) of trouble free rounds downrange. Any chance with the cold it could have affected your grip strength on the pistol, maybe you were wearing gloves that affected your grip strength.

I have direct first had experience with 4 Gen 4 pistol's ( 2 17's and 2 19's) one of the 17's has over 4k and the other over 2 k of malf free rounds through it. I believe that the Gen 4's are much more sensitive to limp wristing. I shoot with an extremely tight grip on my pistols and that is the only thing that comes to mind that might be different.

Overall I'm incredibly confident in the Gen 4's and they are now my pistol of choice.

[D. Christopher]

Tell us what ammo you were using. Did you use the same ammo on both trips? To answer your question, with all else being equal yes the colder temps could have been a factor in your problems, particularly in a brand new Glock. If you are using some of the weaker target loads out there you may have to use something a little stronger to get it to cycle properly, at least until it is broken in and has several hundred rounds through it. If you can afford it run some defense loads through it and it will probably cycle just fine even while it is still new. If problems persist Glock will send you a weaker spring or service the pistol, so don't worry they will make it right, but you need to get through the break-in period to properly diagnose your problem. Leaving the slide locked back WILL NOT fix your problem and is a waste of time. Cycling the action many times will eventually make it run more smoothly and reliably so run as much ammo through it as you can and see if it doesn't get more reliable after 400 to 500 rounds. Regarding the slide not locking back on an empty mag, weak loads can be a factor in that as well, as long as you're sure you're not riding the slide stop lever by accident. A good way to check this is to fire the pistol with your left hand just to make sure. It's not as likely to be a magazine issue in a new pistol, but take note of which mag you're using every time the problem occurs. Good luck.

[bilat]

I've never had first hand experience on what you are describing but have heard a number of similar cases from friends. One guy in particular almost had the exact same problem that you are having with a glock 19 (or 17) Gen 4. He took it to the shop he bought it from and they said he should have striped the gun down and cleaned it thoroughly before shooting for the first time. In doing so you clean all the "production" and manufacturing oils that react differently with certain gunpowders. After giving it good cleaning he has not had a single malfunction going into 3k rounds. Not sure if they are just telling him this just pacify him but it worked.

[lightsareout]

I'll try to hit on a couple points that were brought up. With the cold I wasn't wearing gloves and once the problem started I tried to grip more firmly and the problem continued.

For ammo I was just shooting Remington UMC, same ammo both trips.

I haven't cleaned the gun yet so I will be breaking it down and going through it within the next couple of days. I'll have to wait to shoot it more in the spring unfortunately (no indoor ranges in the area).

I've been debating calling Glock trying to get the 04 spring just to see if that has any effect on it.

[MP9]

that is why I didnt get the glock gen4, but I got a m&p9.

I have read some problems with glock gen 4, of course there is many people who dont get any problem but many other do. and it seem to be the same problem with the spring..
some of them send back to glock or glock send them a new spring and some others dont get any solution from glock...

if you search google you will find many place and forums talkiing about the same...

[vaspence]

I have a Gen 4 19 that has had one issue over 1211 rounds. On round #589 (a reload 4.5 grains Titegroup, 115 FMJ) there was a failure to extract. As I wasn't shooting the gun and a professed Glock hater was :D we immediately tried to replicate the situation but could not.

The gun has had no maintenance since it was purchased new just a set of Warrens installed. No cleaning, etc. It has the 03 spring and the round count is currently 1211 rounds. This includes Federal 115FMJ, WWB 115FMJ, the Titegroup handloads, Tula 115FMJ (steel cased) and Federal 124 grain JHP.

[platoonDaddy]

What is stamped on your recoil spring?

Read that the "04" spring has been released.

[Heidevolk]

I have a Gen 4 19 that has had one issue over 1211 rounds. On round #589 (a reload 4.5 grains Titegroup, 115 FMJ) there was a failure to extract. As I wasn't shooting the gun and a professed Glock hater was :D we immediately tried to replicate the situation but could not.


Sorry I'm not a reloader - is that load more powerful than standard cheapo target practice ammo and could fix the problem?

[D. Christopher]

lightsareout,

The good news is that the Remington UMC ammo you used is about the weakest 9mm out there, so it's not surprising you had some malfunctions with a new Glock, especially a new Gen4 that has a stiffer recoil spring. For a new Gen4 Glock in 9mm, the low powered ammo coupled with the cold temps and the stiffer spring are a good test of how low you can go and still cycle reliably. Once your pistol has 500+ rounds through it, it will probably be able to cycle reliably in these conditions, although it may still require the lighter recoil spring. Glock will send you the lighter spring free of charge, so go ahead and ask them to send you one so you will have it when you need it. In the mean time get some WWB or Federal ammo and see if it doesn't cycle more reliably for you. It may still have an occasional problem with that ammo until the pistol is broken in, but it should be better than the Remington UMC you've already tried. It's also not surprising that your pistol didn't lock back with this ammo. I hope you don't have to wait until spring to shoot again, and if you can get out in the same temps as last time with different ammo you'll probably see an improvement. If you can afford to buy a box of defense loads (NATO pressures) your pistol will probably work perfectly even though it is still new. If you do try defense loads (only 20 or 25 rounds per box) load up your mags with just 5 rounds at a time so you can check to see that the slide will lock back with proper ammo pressures. Good luck.

[lightsareout]

lightsareout,

The good news is that the Remington UMC ammo you used is about the weakest 9mm out there, so it's not surprising you had some malfunctions with a new Glock, especially a new Gen4 that has a stiffer recoil spring. For a new Gen4 Glock in 9mm, the low powered ammo coupled with the cold temps and the stiffer spring are a good test of how low you can go and still cycle reliably. Once your pistol has 500+ rounds through it, it will probably be able to cycle reliably in these conditions, although it may still require the lighter recoil spring. Glock will send you the lighter spring free of charge, so go ahead and ask them to send you one so you will have it when you need it. In the mean time get some WWB or Federal ammo and see if it doesn't cycle more reliably for you. It may still have an occasional problem with that ammo until the pistol is broken in, but it should be better than the Remington UMC you've already tried. It's also not surprising that your pistol didn't lock back with this ammo. I hope you don't have to wait until spring to shoot again, and if you can get out in the same temps as last time with different ammo you'll probably see an improvement. If you can afford to buy a box of defense loads (NATO pressures) your pistol will probably work perfectly even though it is still new. If you do try defense loads (only 20 or 25 rounds per box) load up your mags with just 5 rounds at a time so you can check to see that the slide will lock back with proper ammo pressures. Good luck.

Thank you for all the advice, I had a feeling that my issues were probably caused by the ammo. I plan to get some better ammo and try it more on the 03 spring and also get the 04 spring sent from Glock just to have if I ever have a use for it. I would really like to get out again this year, but all the ranges close on Friday. I might be able to shoot at my parents home around Thanksgiving but that would be my last chance before spring.

Do you think Winchester NATO rounds would be a good option to go with?

[lightsareout]

What is stamped on your recoil spring?

Read that the "04" spring has been released.

I have an "03" i will be requesting the "04"

[rjacobs]

a reload 4.5 grains Titegroup, 115 FMJ

Thread drift:
holy crap thats a stout load for TG behind a 115g FMJ. I load 4g and its more than enough to run any gun I have put it through(hurts my hand good through my little PF9).


Sorry I'm not a reloader - is that load more powerful than standard cheapo target practice ammo and could fix the problem?

Yea thats going to be a stouter load than WWB or other cheap factory 115g. Thats going to be on the level of at least a standard pressure JHP if not getting into +p territory.

[D. Christopher]

Do you think Winchester NATO rounds would be a good option to go with?

That would be a good step up from the Remington UMC and your pistol will perform much better, maybe perfectly with it. Your pistol was designed to handle +P loads, and the Winchester NATO 9mm isn't that strong but I think it's strong enough to reliably cycle a new Gen4 9mm Glock. While it is desirable for a pistol to reliably function with even the cheapest low power target ammo we can find, until your pistol is broken in with 500+ rounds you won't be able to find this lower limit with any certainty. Over the winter you can do some online shopping and find good deals on bulk ammo and be ready for the range when they open up again. Have a great Thanksgiving, and I hope you get to shoot a little after the bird.

[platoonDaddy]

Do you think Winchester NATO rounds would be a good option to go with?



Last night I purchased `1000 rounds of 9mm Winchester Ranger NATO 124gr. FMJ Ammo for $219.95 + shipping for grand total of $247.00.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-9mm-winchester-ranger-nato-124gr-fmj-ammo/cName/9mm-fmj-ammo

[DBR]

Unless Glock has changed their new gun protocol, don't do anything to a new Glock but shoot it. The copper anti-seize is intended to help break in the slide to the frame rails. Adding or removing anything will only compromise its intended purpose. None of my fifteen Glocks had any "factory oils" that needed to be removed. After 300-500 rounds then use a good quality oil sparingly at the designated lube points.

I have owned several G19s starting with Gen 2. Mine were always more sensitive to low powered ammo then my G17s.

As others have mentioned, UMC/Remington is generally weak ammo. NATO spec is what the gun was designed to use.

Lower temps can make weak ammo weaker.

[LittleHouse]

I had a very similar 30's vs 50's temperature experience, in my case with non-max handloads.

I cured it (so far) by cleaning off all copper grease and oiling it lightly in all Glock-recommended areas. My next range trip in the 30's had no malfunctions, even with rounds that previously caused many jams.

I won't trust it for SD or HD until I've put at least 500 more rounds through it with no malfunctions.

There's no doubt that the Gen 4 with the "03" spring prefers hot rounds, which I've noticed eject robustly compared to weak ejection for milder handloads or Remington UMC. Whether that's the full extent of the issue, time will tell.

[rainman]

Last night I purchased `1000 rounds of 9mm Winchester Ranger NATO 124gr. FMJ Ammo for $219.95 + shipping for grand total of $247.00.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-9mm-winchester-ranger-nato-124gr-fmj-ammo/cName/9mm-fmj-ammo

That is exceptionally good ammo (I have purchase some) and should cycle your Glock with no issues.


-Rainman