My experience with KAC

[Bolt_Overide]

So the comments in another thread about how reports of things that didnt go well are so often remembered longer than many many more reports of things that do got me thinking about my recent experiences with KAC. I seem to recall an old saying about an "aww shit" moment erasing the previous 10 "Atta Boys". With that in mind, here was my experience with KAC, specificly with III.

As some of you will recall I made a post or two on wanting to get a 18 or 20 inch precision barrel for one of my SR-15's. I of course ran into the issues of the barrel extension and bolt being proprietary. I looked high and low to find some way of getting either a factory KAC barrel extension, or failing that, finding someone who was replicating them.

Well after a month of searching it was obvious that it wasnt going to happen. So mostly out of idle curiousity, I PM'ed III to see if KAC had any plans to make a factory SR-15E3 precision/spr type with 18 or 20 inch barrel.

I got a response via email the next day from III. He told me that in short, they had too much else in the fire atm, and had no immediate plans to do so. He added that he would be willing however, to do dig into his stash of non E3 precision stuff, and assemble me a gun with E3 lower and non E3 upper with rifle URX-II. He even asked me whether I preffered 18 or 20 inch.

Needless to say I was a bit taken aback by the effort he was willing to put into helping me get what I want. To top it all off, the price was no more than the going rate for a normal run of the mill SR-15E3 16 inch gun.

If what he had done and offered to do already hadnt been enough, he also offered to store the weapon for me until I return from my current deployment in A-stan so I didnt have to worry about trying to find an FFL back home to receive it and store it for me for 6 months.

I know that no one is perfect, we all make mistakes, both individules and companies. But I only thought it was fair to put this out there for others to read, as I am one VERY happy KAC customer. And while I am admittedly a KAC fanboy (4, 5.56 gunsand 3, 7.62), along with a veritable plethora (Do you know what is a plethora?), of accessories and small parts, I must say that the service I have received has made me a beleiver, III and crew are a good buncha guys making an outstanding product.

Side note for III: I wasnt sure whether or not you wanted me puting this story out there, and Ill apologise in advance if you get inundated with requests similar to mine. I just felt that you guys deserved a couple "Atta Boys" for how you bent over backwards for me.

[Kchen986]

KAC, you make me proud to say I'm a Floridian. :D

[Eurodriver]

When I EAS its time to hit up Titusville. Do they have a retail shop? :D

[jumbopanda]

I've heard people say that KAC doesn't care about civilian sales, but I guess they were wrong.

[DaBears_85]

I've heard people say that KAC doesn't care about civilian sales, but I guess they were wrong.

I've heard people say that as well. I don't think they're trying to say that KAC dosen't care about the civilian market, but that filling their government contracts takes precedence over it. That's just my take though, could be wrong.

[boomhower]

I've heard people say that as well. I don't think that they're trying to say KAC dosen't care about the civilian market, but that filling their government contracts takes precedence over it. That's just my take though, could be wrong.

Considering it's a contract that makes sense to me.

[Robb Jensen]

So the comments in another thread about how reports of things that didnt go well are so often remembered longer than many many more reports of things that do got me thinking about my recent experiences with KAC. I seem to recall an old saying about an "aww shit" moment erasing the previous 10 "Atta Boys". With that in mind, here was my experience with KAC, specificly with III.



I put my money where my mouth is and last night I bought Trio's rifle which is the topic in the other thread.

I really like KAC products and very much want to see this rifle run suppressed. I'll be trying my AAC M4-2000 Mod 07 on an AAC Brakeout 51 tooth mount that I mounted on the SR15E3 last night and hopefully everything will work out just fine.

I work in a retail estabilshment and yes you'll here much more about when things go wrong vs. when they're great. That's just human nature. Dissatified customers will tell 10 times more people of their experiences vs. happy satisfied customers.

[rob_s]

I've heard people say that KAC doesn't care about civilian sales, but I guess they were wrong.

I believe that even Trey will concede that for quite some time this reputation was well deserved, but he is doing, and has done, a lot to change that. Hell they even have an industry page on TOS! :sarcastic:

[Palmguy]

When I EAS its time to hit up Titusville. Do they have a retail shop? :D

Negative.

[Boss Hogg]

GotM4 didn't buy that gun (which I saw yesterday); he stole it. :p

I do believe this whole issue raises an important point about suppressors. This wasn't an SBR or anything exotic (well, I guess you could say an SR-15 is exotic in a positive way). Suppressors add an entirely new level of complexity to DI ARs......and I do believe that things like Vltor's A5 buffer system will help.

[JasonM]

Negative.

Lawmen's is sort of their retail wing:
http://www.lawmens.net/contacts.html

[Palmguy]

Lawmen's is sort of their retail wing:
http://www.lawmens.net/contacts.html

Correct. It's about an hour south of KAC.

[Zhurdan]

(Do you know what is a plethora?)

Bolt Overide, could it be that you are mad at something else and taking it out on us? (sorry, love that movie!)

Glad to hear stories like this as for the most part, customer service is a dying art.

[mtdawg169]

I'll second Bolt Override's vote of confidence in KAC. Trey & Kevin have bent over backwards for me in the past. Going above & beyond is an everyday thing for them. The old line that KAC is less concerned about the commercial side of the house may have been true a few years ago, but it is complete BS today. They make great products and stand behind them 100% in my experience.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[mtdawg169]

What was the issue with the other rifle? Can somone PM me a link?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[trio]

I also agree that unfortunately you hear more about the bad than the good....

It's good to get all the information and, honestly, I think we focus way too much on the negative in life...

I'm glad your experience with KAC was positive!

[Magic_Salad0892]

Being somebody who's life relies on a Knight's rifle as a home defence, SHTF gun. They have become on of 2 factory rifles I trust, without a doubt in the world. (The other being a Colt.)


I do wish they would release a factory 14.5'' with a gas system optimized for that barrel length. However the intermediate is working fine.

[Army Chief]

I too have been uniformly impressed by my contacts with KAC -- and with III, in particular. Without going into specifics, I asked for special consideration in sourcing a particular non-catalogued component that was a matter of some importance to me, and to my great astonishment, not only was the item supplied, but it was delivered to my door at no cost.

I was prepared to cheerfully accept a refusal, and instead was afforded a level of support that was neither expected nor warranted by anything I could have done or said. This is beyond customer service: it is reflective of a company with a real sense of class. One needn't wear a fanboy label to come away with a healthy respect for a business that is run with this kind of commitment to the end user, and I count it a pleasure to reward them with my business.

AC

[III]

I hear by swear on the grave of Eugene Stoner himself that trio's old gun( now the property of gotm4) shall run reliably suppressed or purchased by myself and sacrificed in a fiery furry of destruction.

Thanks for the positive comments guys. Myself , Kevin B and many other members of KAC really work hard to keep all of our customers happy no how big or how small. Sometimes we just get stretched a little thin and sh*t falls through the cracks. This close to Shotshow and with all we have going on its really tough to keep up with everything. For all the guys who post on forums their is perhaps double the amount that reach out to us and have situations that require individual attention. The Chris Costas , the Ichiro Nagatas, the guys that work at companies I need a hook up from, the cops that pull Kevin B over on a road trip,the service men,... the list is long. Honestly I really know what we could do different other than hire more people to help..........were givin it all we got.

There was one comment I really wanted to respond to that involved us "caring" about the commercial market. It is not a matter of caring it is a matter of economy of scale. The profits we made from the commercial market last year wouldn't even pay for a fraction of our ammo costs alone. So I guess that gives you an idea of how much ammo we shoot or how few of guns we sold commercially. The real point is none of this is really about the money for me at this point.Thank's again guys...my apologies for ranting or venting too much.

[Robb Jensen]

I hear by swear on the grave of Eugene Stoner himself that trio's old gun (now the property of gotm4) shall run reliably suppressed or purchased by myself and sacrificed in a fiery furry of destruction.

Thanks for the positive comments guys. Myself , Kevin B and many other members of KAC really work hard to keep all of our customers happy no how big or how small. Sometimes we just get stretched a little thin and sh*t falls through the cracks. This close to Shotshow and with all we have going on its really tough to keep up with everything. For all the guys who post on forums their is perhaps double the amount that reach out to us and have situations that require individual attention. The Chris Costas , the Ichiro Nagatas, the guys that work at companies I need a hook up from, the cops that pull Kevin B over on a road trip,the service men,... the list is long. Honestly I really know what we could do different other than hire more people to help..........were givin it all we got.

There was one comment I really wanted to respond to that involved us "caring" about the commercial market. It is not a matter of caring it is a matter of economy of scale. The profits we made from the commercial market last year wouldn't even pay for a fraction of our ammo costs alone. So I guess that gives you an idea of how much ammo we shoot or how few of guns we sold commercially. The real point is none of this is really about the money for me at this point.Thank's again guys...my apologies for ranting or venting too much.

Thanks for posting here III. I'm certain if it doesn't that you'll make it right. I mounted up a brand new Aimpoint H1 on it in a LaRue HK416 mount (I want to get a 1/3 co-witness KAC mount for it for this gun). For a light I mounted a Surefire 6P LED in a VTAC mount.
I know you guys are traveling all over the place and working your asses off! See you at SHOT in a few months.

[TehLlama]

Is it bad that I want trio's old gun to become a destructive testing mule for KAC?

In any case, it is you guys that have made me want to be a CNC tech while getting a degree.

[Bolt_Overide]

Now all I need to do is talk him into selling me that chainsaw lookin belt fed....

[Whootsinator]

Now that's service... my hat is off to you guys at KAC, for superior products and superior service as shown here.

[GlockWRX]

I just want to throw this out there: KAC was THE kick ass gear to get in the very beginning when the accessory market was just taking off nearly 20 years ago. KAC paved the way. And now here we are all these years later, and they are still at the top of the industry.

There were several years after 9/11 when it seemed KAC had fallen off the earth. Truth was they were building the gear steely eyed killers needed to make the world a better place. They still are today. While it may seem 'uncaring' to focus primarily on the .mil market, it's actually the most caring thing in the world.

I am thankful that KAC has devoted at least some of their talent and capability to putting cool stuff on the civilian market. My KAC SR15 is one of the coolest guns I've ever handled, but I haven't seen an SR25 EMC yet. They may miss the mark once in a great while, but they have established a reputation for innovation and excellence that spans decades.

[Bolt_Overide]

Yah I remember when we first started getting the rail systems and the BUIS, they were the cats ass.

[BufordTJustice]

I hear by swear on the grave of Eugene Stoner himself that trio's old gun( now the property of gotm4) shall run reliably suppressed or purchased by myself and sacrificed in a fiery furry of destruction.

Thanks for the positive comments guys. Myself , Kevin B and many other members of KAC really work hard to keep all of our customers happy no how big or how small. Sometimes we just get stretched a little thin and sh*t falls through the cracks. This close to Shotshow and with all we have going on its really tough to keep up with everything. For all the guys who post on forums their is perhaps double the amount that reach out to us and have situations that require individual attention. The Chris Costas , the Ichiro Nagatas, the guys that work at companies I need a hook up from, the cops that pull Kevin B over on a road trip,the service men,... the list is long. Honestly I really know what we could do different other than hire more people to help..........were givin it all we got.

There was one comment I really wanted to respond to that involved us "caring" about the commercial market. It is not a matter of caring it is a matter of economy of scale. The profits we made from the commercial market last year wouldn't even pay for a fraction of our ammo costs alone. So I guess that gives you an idea of how much ammo we shoot or how few of guns we sold commercially. The real point is none of this is really about the money for me at this point.Thank's again guys...my apologies for ranting or venting too much.

III, No apologies necessary. With the community here seeing your (and others) efforts to go the extra distance, I have to think some serious amounts of patience will be provided.

I'm actually from Vero (grew up there); do you even get back there any more with all the traveling you've been doing?

Keep up the great work. I'll grab an SR15 one of these years once I get the dough saved up. :)

Gotm4: Pix or it didn't happen. ;)

[jumbopanda]

I have to say, I'm quite impressed by the level of communication that KAC has with their civilian customers, despite the fact that civilian sales account for so little of their profits.

[Robb Jensen]

I have VERY GOOD things to report after shooting the KAC SR15E3 tonight. It ran 100% reliable suppressed with my AAC M4-2000 Mod 07.

When I got the SR15E3 the other day I cleaned it up really well even using Sweets 762 to remove as much copper from the bore as I could. I went through everything I could think of in the rifle looking for anything that could possibly cause problems. I noticed that the buffer spring was 10-1/8" long. The USMC TM says that the spring is to be replaced at 10-1/16" so I replaced it with a new Brownells chrome silicon (standard rate CAR) buffer spring which measures 10.5" new. I also replaced the KAC SR15 buffer (3.0oz CAR buffer) with a new BCM H buffer (3.8oz buffer since I was planning on shooting it suppressed. I lubed it up with Militec-1. Magazines used were 1 new Magpul EMAG and 1 PMAG, and 3 Lancer 20 round mags. No problems to report and everything ran 100%. I shot 270 rounds with the KAC lower on the gun. 250 rounds suppressed and burned off most of the FDE Norrels moly resin on the can that I had sprayed on it last year. The ammo I shot suppressed in the gun are as follows:

100 rounds of PMC Bronze 55gr FMJ (all suppressed)
100 rounds of Federal American Eagle AE223 55gr FMJ (80 rounds suppressed, 20 rounds to zero the Aimpoint H1 at 50yds)
30 rounds of BH Mk262 Mod 1 77gr OTM (all suppressed)
20 rounds of Federal XM193 (all suppressed)
20 rounds of Hornady Practice 55gr FMJ steel case (all suppressed

Just to feel what the KAC upper would feel like with a VLTOR A5 receiver extension I stuck the upper on one of my BCMs which has the VLTOR A5 on it with the VLTOR A5 5 oz buffer and a rifle length spring. I shot:

20 rounds of Federal American Eagle AE223 55gr FMJ

With VLTOR A5 and A5 5 oz buffer the rifle shoots very soft and noticeably slower cycling suppressed.

I used an AAC Brakeout flash hider/comp on it which felt pretty good. It had a ton of flash with American Eagle 55gr FMJ.

Still not sure as to why this gun did not like the Gemtech G5. Adding suppressors to semi auto and auto rifles is like adding a supercharger onto a street car. All kinds of weird things can go on. It could be that a Gemtech adds more gas through the barrel and through the gas system than the AAC and KAC suppressors that run fine on this gun. Both the AAC and the KAC suppressors are also lighter weight. This may or may not contribute to cycling issues. With the buffer spring being near the minimum length and using the 3 oz buffer it could have been over cycling sometimes. But it's all a learning experience and I am a constant student of Eugene Stoners design.

Now I just need to pick up a KAC Aimpoint Micro mount, a black Triple Tap and one of the KAC Aimpoint Micro battery covers.

[Bolt_Overide]

Thats good news bud, glad to hear its working out for ya. Of course part of that is the fact that youre using the same can Im gonna be using when I get home..

[trio]

I believe the true key was removing the dark cloud of bad luck I have had for the last year or so...very glad it worked

[III]

I suspect sabotage , as gotm4 wanted to get his hands on trio's "faulty" gun on the cheap.... glad everything worked out in the end. Thanks for all the support guys and I hope we get a little more caught up soon and can bring some of the stuff on the drawing board to the commercial market. In the mean time , Magpul Dynamic guns will be shipping soon and I'm pretty happy with how they turned out. Tactical Tailor is doing a cool softcase for us and I just got one of the samples. The package in general is something I am proud of. Now I kind of wish we did more than 100 of them.

I have another story hopefully I can find the right place/time to share about a custom adaptor we did for a soldier who lost his sight in his right eye and wanted to be able to still shoot right handed. Once we get a little further along with it and get it in his hands ,providing he is OK with us sharing his story , I will try and relate what we ended up doing for the guy. No matter how bad it gets some times , I love my job and try and remember how lucky and fortunate I am to be in my position.

[SeriousStudent]

.......

I have another story hopefully I can find the right place/time to share about a custom adaptor we did for a soldier who lost his sight in his right eye and wanted to be able to still shoot right handed. Once we get a little further along with it and get it in his hands ,providing he is OK with us sharing his story , I will try and relate what we ended up doing for the guy. No matter how bad it gets some times , I love my job and try and remember how lucky and fortunate I am to be in my position.

Mr Knight, even if you never get to release the details, please accept an old Marine's thanks. God bless you for assisting that injured warrior.

[Bolt_Overide]

I suspect sabotage , as gotm4 wanted to get his hands on trio's "faulty" gun on the cheap.... glad everything worked out in the end. Thanks for all the support guys and I hope we get a little more caught up soon and can bring some of the stuff on the drawing board to the commercial market. In the mean time , Magpul Dynamic guns will be shipping soon and I'm pretty happy with how they turned out. Tactical Tailor is doing a cool softcase for us and I just got one of the samples. The package in general is something I am proud of. Now I kind of wish we did more than 100 of them.

I have another story hopefully I can find the right place/time to share about a custom adaptor we did for a soldier who lost his sight in his right eye and wanted to be able to still shoot right handed. Once we get a little further along with it and get it in his hands ,providing he is OK with us sharing his story , I will try and relate what we ended up doing for the guy. No matter how bad it gets some times , I love my job and try and remember how lucky and fortunate I am to be in my position.


See thats the kinda shit Im talkin about right there, III will you have my babies?!

[M4Fundi]

God Bless KAC & the wounded warrior! I hope it works for him and I hope Trio gets another shot at a SR15 someday!