First Time Prospective Gun Owner ... Liberal Dem ... Delicious

[30 cal slut]

Okay, so I live in the liberal northeast in a state that has some fairly restrictive gun laws. Not the worst in the land, but they suck.

I have a buddy who just got bitten by BRD. Wicked bad. I mean, he is going crazy - he wants to buy multiple AR's in different flavors and a few shotties and a handgun or two. I've been taking him shooting a few times, so, I can claim yet another victim. muhahahahahahah.

Anyhoo, I find it deliciously ironic that he is a liberal democrat who in the past has supported antigun politicians.

Following is a conversation i had recently:




friend: so, I want to get two AR's, one in 5.56 and one in 7.62. and then I want to get a precision rifle, and a couple of shotguns, and a coule of handguns. where can i go to get these?

slut: i know a good shop, i suggest _____'s. good service and reasonable prices.

friend: dude, do you have time to go shop with me this weekend? i want these NOW.

slut: whoa, slow down, dude. you know there's a two week wait on rifle and shotgun purchases, right?

friend: WHAT?!!!

slut: uh, and you can't legally purchase a handgun from a dealer in this state without your ccw permit.

friend: WHAT?!!!

slut: uh, yeah. you need to apply for your CCW.

friend: How do I do that?

slut: Well, first you gotta get the application, then take a firearms safety class, then get fingerprinted, then submit your application and pay the fees.

friend: How long will that take?

slut: hmmm, in your town, about four months.

friend: WHAAAAAAAAT?!!!!!!!!! THAT SUCKS.

slut: That's what you get for voting democrat.

friend: This is bullshit, I mean, didn't the Supreme Court say that we all have a right to be armed?

slut: I iz just sayin ...



Sorry, just had to share, too funny. A lightbulb moment. :sarcastic:

[500grains]

Excellent!

I hope that Dem is finally starting to see what his party is doing:

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=304819215419&id=99ddd5ef16dc42592ffdfb4ed863b8fb&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.puma08.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2009%2f02%2fcommunist_usa-flag-1024x539.jpg

[30 cal slut]

I'm a little hard on the dems here, and to a large extent that is deserved, but, we have some rinos that are also pretty bad when it comes to guns.

[GermanSynergy]

A 2 week wait for rifle and shotgun purchases? I thought Maryland was bad....

[Heavy Metal]

Okay, so I live in the liberal northeast in a state that has some fairly restrictive gun laws. Not the worst in the land, but they suck.

I have a buddy who just got bitten by BRD. Wicked bad. I mean, he is going crazy - he wants to buy multiple AR's in different flavors and a few shotties and a handgun or two. I've been taking him shooting a few times, so, I can claim yet another victim. muhahahahahahah.

Anyhoo, I find it deliciously ironic that he is a liberal democrat who in the past has supported antigun politicians.

Following is a conversation i had recently:



Sorry, just had to share, too funny. A lightbulb moment. :sarcastic:

Karma can be an ironic bitch at times can't it? LOL!

[SeriousStudent]

Bless you for bringing someone over from the dark side.

Maybe he'll think about it, the next time he's in the voting booth.

[Erik 1]

A 2 week wait for rifle and shotgun purchases? I thought Maryland was bad....

Only if you don't have a CCW permit, but yeah. (I happen to be in the same state.) I love seeing those, "Oh wait, that means me?" moments.

[Bolt_Overide]

And yet another poor misunderstanding soul sees the light..

[bkb0000]

Bless you for bringing someone over from the dark side.


from?


http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/stuff/red-2.png?t=1289968867

[SteyrAUG]

When liberals vote for gun control, they always believe they will be controlling other people and their rights won't be affected in any way. Just like they thought they were gonna get free health care and some other mythical rich person was gonna pay the bill for all of it. And they assume if things get really bad they can always get a Uzi "on the street" for about $100 or a Glock at the "back door" of a gun shop without any regulations for $50.

It is always enlightening to watch these folks discover they are wrong.

[Alaskapopo]

I'm a little hard on the dems here, and to a large extent that is deserved, but, we have some rinos that are also pretty bad when it comes to guns.

The gun issue is not absolutely tied to either party. The dems as you call them have been in charge the last 4 years and passed no gun control. There are pro gun democrat's and anti gun republicans. I refuse to join either party. I vote independent. I look at the candidate and where he or she stands on the issues I care about.
Pat

[Littlelebowski]

What Pat said. The gun control issue is a regional thing.

[The_War_Wagon]

Saw the libturds change their tune QUICKLY duirng the LA riots in '92, too! :sarcastic: Most of them wised up and left the state, for more gun-friendly climes!

Methinks you enjoyed your liberal buddies' predicament a bit TOO much, though. ;)

[Low Drag]

The gun issue is not absolutely tied to either party. The dems as you call them have been in charge the last 4 years and passed no gun control. There are pro gun democrat's and anti gun republicans. I refuse to join either party. I vote independent. I look at the candidate and where he or she stands on the issues I care about.
Pat

Not to be pointied or confrontational but you need to study up. Yes there are anti gun republicans and pro gun democrats but they are the exception to the rule in each party. The only reason dems haven't proposed more gun control is because they learned their leson in 1994.

They also see that evil republicans can win a majority in congress and have the White House and therefore figure they need them.

When voting for congress party trumps person. The majority party selects who is on committees and what bills make it for a vote.

BTW, for the record I have worked for republican candidates since 2004. They have 4 more years to reduce the size of government or I will start voting liberal dem and advocate that in places like this. I figure putting them in charge is the only way to get people pissed off enough to get involved.

Sorry for the off topic rant.

Good job on converting a lib to the side of freedom and liberty.

[30 cal slut]

What Pat said. The gun control issue is a regional thing.

agreed. a moderate dem, from say, west virginia, is going to be eleventy billion times more pro-gun than a repub in my home state. :sarcastic:

[30 cal slut]

It is always enlightening to watch these folks discover they are wrong.

I've learned the hard way that just verbally arguing with an anti-gunner doesn't really work in changing hearts and minds.

Some people are incorrigible. Some people are just clinically hoplophobic. You can't save everyone.

For the rest, especially those on the fence regarding gun ownership, one can do wonders by simply taking them to the range and showing them a good, safe time shooting.

Secondly, while at the range, I remain politically neutral. I don't mention dem or republican, liberal or conservative. I stay focused on the four rules of safe gun handling, and accurate shooting on non-human paper targets or steel. This intent in this approach is two-fold: shoot with a purpose, and shoot in a non-threatening environment.

A lot of folks have fun, and leave it that. "Let's go shooting again."

For others I've taken, BRD takes hold, bad. :sarcastic: They end up getting their CCW's and buying guns ... and then ... training. When they see what kind of hoops they have to jump through to get a gun or CCW, that's when I zap them with the "you fool you voted antigun" zinger. :sarcastic:

I feel like the borg. When you shoot with me, resistance is futile. I've got 10 co-workers to get their CCW's, two of them to train with LAV, and several buddies into it.

I won't stop until I croak.

[30 cal slut]

A 2 week wait for rifle and shotgun purchases? I thought Maryland was bad....

Hey bro.

If you have your CCW, no wait on handguns or long guns (instant check). Although we have an AWB, we are shall-issue CCW in practice.

Also, our transportation and carry laws are a lot less restrictive than MD.

[Palmguy]

The gun issue is not absolutely tied to either party. The dems as you call them have been in charge the last 4 years and passed no gun control. There are pro gun democrat's and anti gun republicans. I refuse to join either party. I vote independent. I look at the candidate and where he or she stands on the issues I care about.
Pat

We're not talking about the past 4 years and we aren't talking federal in this thread either. Look at a red/blue map and look at which states have the most onerous restrictions on firearms. There is generally a pretty damn strong correlation...the bluest of the blue states don't really care much for average joe's right to do anything with a gun. Massachusetts, New York, California, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, Hawaii...Vermont is a notable exception in some respects but they are just that, an exception. Look at cities with the most onerous restrictions or anti-gun POV....Chicago, NYC, DC, Philly, LA, SF; tell me how they lean politically. Look at who the Brady tards and other anti-gun groups like the Joyce Foundation and let me know who they support.

Now look at firearms friendly states....the southeast, Texas, OK, Utah, Arizona, Alaska, etc...what is their predominant (not exclusive) political leaning?

No one is saying there aren't pro-gun Democrats or anti-gun Republicans. But to suggest that there is absolutely no difference on this particular issue is to place your head firmly in the sand.

[GermanSynergy]

That's awesome. At least y'all in CT can buy factory fresh 30 rd PMAGs, as opposed to the unfortunate souls in NJ,NY & MA.

Sorry for the slight hijack.

ETA- I've found that once BRD sets in, there is no going back! :sarcastic:


Hey bro.

If you have your CCW, no wait on handguns or long guns (instant check). Although we have an AWB, we are shall-issue CCW in practice.

Also, our transportation and carry laws are a lot less restrictive than MD.

[30 cal slut]

That's awesome. At least y'all in CT can buy factory fresh 30 rd PMAGs, as opposed to the unfortunate souls in NJ,NY & MA.

Sorry for the slight hijack.

ETA- I've found that once BRD sets in, there is no going back! :sarcastic:

no worries, mate.

thanks for the PMAG reminder, i have to teach my friend about the virtues of pmags, and having lots of them. muuuuhahahahahahhahah. :sarcastic:

[ralph]

I've learned the hard way that just verbally arguing with an anti-gunner doesn't really work in changing hearts and minds.

Some people are incorrigible. Some people are just clinically hoplophobic. You can't save everyone.

For the rest, especially those on the fence regarding gun ownership, one can do wonders by simply taking them to the range and showing them a good, safe time shooting.

Secondly, while at the range, I remain politically neutral. I don't mention dem or republican, liberal or conservative. I stay focused on the four rules of safe gun handling, and accurate shooting on non-human paper targets or steel. This intent in this approach is two-fold: shoot with a purpose, and shoot in a non-threatening environment.

A lot of folks have fun, and leave it that. "Let's go shooting again."

For others I've taken, BRD takes hold, bad. :sarcastic: They end up getting their CCW's and buying guns ... and then ... training. When they see what kind of hoops they have to jump through to get a gun or CCW, that's when I zap them with the "you fool you voted antigun" zinger. :sarcastic:

I feel like the borg. When you shoot with me, resistance is futile. I've got 10 co-workers to get their CCW's, two of them to train with LAV, and several buddies into it.

I won't stop until I croak.

Bravo,Sir Bravo!
The best I've been able to do, is let a couple of friends shoot my M1 Garand and watch their eyes light up,and ask how they can get one, and finally convince another friend to sell his mini-14, chinese SKS, and buy a AR..I will of course, guide him along the way..(talk about easy button, this will just take a trip out to Grant's)

[R1pper]

Slut, what state are you in?

[Complication]

The gun issue is not absolutely tied to either party. The dems as you call them have been in charge the last 4 years and passed no gun control. There are pro gun democrat's and anti gun republicans. I refuse to join either party. I vote independent. I look at the candidate and where he or she stands on the issues I care about.
Pat

And the gun control issue isn't absolute (for everyone), either.

Imagine if the only thing about the two parties that changed was positions on gun control. Would you immediately run out and vote Democrat?

Personally, I'm totally pro 2nd amendment. But there are other issues out there that are as important, if not more important than gun control to me. I'll vote for someone who I agree with on 99% of issues who is anti-gun rather than vote for some pro-gun politician who I disagree with on everything else.

For some people guns are the most important and ONLY important issue. Good for you. For me it's one of MANY important issues and I vote for those who share my views the most OVERALL.

[Alaskapopo]

And the gun control issue isn't absolute (for everyone), either.

Imagine if the only thing about the two parties that changed was positions on gun control. Would you immediately run out and vote Democrat?
Personally, I'm totally pro 2nd amendment. But there are other issues out there that are as important, if not more important than gun control to me. I'll vote for someone who I agree with on 99% of issues who is anti-gun rather than vote for some pro-gun politician who I disagree with on everything else.

For some people guns are the most important and ONLY important issue. Good for you. For me it's one of MANY important issues and I vote for those who share my views the most OVERALL.

I don't vote 100% either party right now. I am an independant. Being in Alaska neither party is anti gun. I voted for a write in senator (republican) republican house of represenative rep, a democratic govenor and democrat at the local level. I vote on the issues and the character of the indivdual canidate.

The gun issue is very important to me. Next on the list is workers rights I am pro union. I don't really care about the other social issues like Abortion and Gay marrage.
Pat

[armakraut]

I always tell them to thank the first black president.

[Complication]

I don't vote 100% either party right now. I am an independant. Being in Alaska neither party is anti gun. I voted for a write in senator (republican) republican house of represenative rep, a democratic govenor and democrat at the local level.
Pat

A lot of the folks I know are fiscally conservative/socially liberal. And in a lot of states, the choices force us to decide which is more important (usually between a semi-fiscally conservative, socially backwards republican and a tax-and-spend socially progressive democrat). I know guns are important to everyone here. But I feel a lot of people (at least when typing up forum posts) make a lot of hay out of positions on guns as if it's the be-all, end-all of politics.

When I introduced my parents to my arsenal and my enthusiasm for the hobby of shooting (as well as my CCW), my father said "you know, it's funny, yesterday if someone had told me that with the press of a button I could make every gun on the planet vanish, I wouldn't have hesitated, but now, I guess I'm not so sure." Great, education is happening, but I think a lot of the sentiments here are (understandably) willfully hyperbolic, as if anyone who has ever voted Democrat in their lives is some naive fawn who lives in a fantasy world with respect to gun issues. And I think it's both hurtful to the cause (what anti-gun person wants to learn anything about guns if their education results in cheers deriding their political beliefs?) and disingenuous.

I think a little moderation (like yours) on the issue could help. I never even imagined owning a gun for much of my life (forgive me, I grew up in CT), but my rapid conversion certainly didn't change my politics, either.

[Alaskapopo]

I don't have all the political answers but I do know one thing for sure. This country is not going to get out of the mess we are in unless both Democrats and Republicans can learn to work together. People need to start putting the country first and their political party affiliation way down on the list. Just my two cents. Screaming at the other side until your red in the face is not going to accomplish much.
Pat

[bkb0000]

I don't have all the political answers but I do know one thing for sure. This country is not going to get out of the mess we are in unless both Democrats and Republicans can learn to work together. People need to start putting the country first and their political party affiliation way down on the list. Just my two cents. Screaming at the other side until your red in the face is not going to accomplish much.
Pat

they, together, got us into this "mess." how are they, together, going to get us out? this ship is going under, so long as one, the other, or both, are still at the helm.

[Belmont31R]

If someone doesn't support gun ownership to at least what the Supreme Court has ruled, and is now law then how could I trust them to honor their oath to protect any other of my rights? Think of it as a litmus test.



9 times out of 10 if someone doesn't support gun rights then they are a big government statist I wouldn't vote for anyways. That last one making 10 would have me voting 3rd party.

[Mac5.56]

I know thousands of 'liberals' that are armed. I know liberals that are more well armed then the majority of people on this forum. There is a dirt road in a western state (making up about an entire county) that is so well armed and "liberal" that if any Christian Right Wing Conservatives walk down it in a SHTF situation with an attitude that it's either their way or the highway, they wont be coming out. These people are true American's that believe in every word of the Constitution, not just those parts that fit an agenda.

I know conservative gun owners that go to liberal gun owners houses and ask for advice.

I know Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and WOT Veterans that state openly they are liberal, and own guns.

Where I live now 80% of the people I know that own guns would be defined as "liberal" given the true definition of the word.

Where I live now that population probably outnumbers some of the counties some of you are from...

Where I grew up 75% of the town was Democrat and 99.9% of the town owned guns.

You all spend so much time fixated on this "line in the sand" that you can no longer see the forest for the trees. The supposed divide in this nation was created by BOTH political parties in order to insure our continued support for Party D or Party R. They grabbed us all by the balls, and convinced us all that we are different , and thus enemies. They're lines are all bullshit, get over it. People are people, and we have the right to disagree on certain things, and agree on others, that is what it means to be an educated society.

Are extreme left wing zealots annoying and way over the top with their beliefs? Yeppers! Just like extreme right wing people! Both tend to be a thorn in the society of this great nation, and will prove to be our undoing.

Why not focus more on the fact that your simply sharing a past time, a skill, and a Constitutional Right with a friend, and less on his political affiliation? Who knows, maybe if you keep an open mind he may teach you something you never considered in exchange for you teaching him about firearms...

[Alaskapopo]

they, together, got us into this "mess." how are they, together, going to get us out? this ship is going under, so long as one, the other, or both, are still at the helm.

Actually there is plenty of blame for the mess we are in including you and I. People are often quick to point the finger and not accept personal responsiblity but we all had a hand in the current financial crisis.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

I know thousands of 'liberals' that are armed. I know liberals that are more well armed then the majority of people on this forum. There is a dirt road in a western state (making up about an entire county) that is so well armed and "liberal" that if any Christian Right Wing Conservatives walk down it in a SHTF situation with an attitude that it's either their way or the highway, they wont be coming out. These people are true American's that believe in every word of the Constitution, not just those parts that fit an agenda.

I know conservative gun owners that go to liberal gun owners houses and ask for advice.

I know Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and WOT Veterans that state openly they are liberal, and own guns.

Where I live now 80% of the people I know that own guns would be defined as "liberal" given the true definition of the word.

Where I live now that population probably outnumbers some of the counties some of you are from...

Where I grew up 75% of the town was Democrat and 99.9% of the town owned guns.

You all spend so much time fixated on this "line in the sand" that you can no longer see the forest for the trees. The supposed divide in this nation was created by BOTH political parties in order to insure our continued support for Party D or Party R. They grabbed us all by the balls, and convinced us all that we are different , and thus enemies. They're lines are all bullshit, get over it. People are people, and we have the right to disagree on certain things, and agree on others, that is what it means to be an educated society.

Are extreme left wing zealots annoying and way over the top with their beliefs? Yeppers! Just like extreme right wing people! Both tend to be a thorn in the society of this great nation, and will prove to be our undoing.

Why not focus more on the fact that your simply sharing a past time, a skill, and a Constitutional Right with a friend, and less on his political affiliation? Who knows, maybe if you keep an open mind he may teach you something you never considered in exchange for you teaching him about firearms...

Great post.
Pat

[Low Drag]

they, together, got us into this "mess." how are they, together, going to get us out? this ship is going under, so long as one, the other, or both, are still at the helm.

The only game in town is one of the 2 major parties. The answer is pull one of the parties to sanity. Pro gun, small government, reduce spending, reasonable national defense. Which party do you think will be easier to pull in that direction?

Party does trumph person as I posted before.

[Low Drag]

I know thousands of 'liberals' that are armed. I know liberals that are more well armed then the majority of people on this forum. There is a dirt road in a western state (making up about an entire county) that is so well armed and "liberal" that if any Christian Right Wing Conservatives walk down it in a SHTF situation with an attitude that it's either their way or the highway, they wont be coming out. These people are true American's that believe in every word of the Constitution, not just those parts that fit an agenda.

I know conservative gun owners that go to liberal gun owners houses and ask for advice.

I know Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and WOT Veterans that state openly they are liberal, and own guns.

Where I live now 80% of the people I know that own guns would be defined as "liberal" given the true definition of the word.

Where I live now that population probably outnumbers some of the counties some of you are from...

Where I grew up 75% of the town was Democrat and 99.9% of the town owned guns.

You all spend so much time fixated on this "line in the sand" that you can no longer see the forest for the trees. The supposed divide in this nation was created by BOTH political parties in order to insure our continued support for Party D or Party R. They grabbed us all by the balls, and convinced us all that we are different , and thus enemies. They're lines are all bullshit, get over it. People are people, and we have the right to disagree on certain things, and agree on others, that is what it means to be an educated society.

Are extreme left wing zealots annoying and way over the top with their beliefs? Yeppers! Just like extreme right wing people! Both tend to be a thorn in the society of this great nation, and will prove to be our undoing.

Why not focus more on the fact that your simply sharing a past time, a skill, and a Constitutional Right with a friend, and less on his political affiliation? Who knows, maybe if you keep an open mind he may teach you something you never considered in exchange for you teaching him about firearms...

Are they Jefferson liberals or Pelosi liberal? If they vote dem we get Pelosi, it's that simple. They may assign the label of liberal to them self but that term has been hijacked by the so-called left that are actually fabian/socalists and have nothing in common with a Jeffersonian liberal.

Regarding gun ownership, I don't care if a 'liberal' owns guns, everyone wants them. Ted Kennedy had a ton of armed guards who carried guns. The issue is do they want to make laws to take away other people's guns, while keeping their own of course.

[30 cal slut]

Slut, what state are you in?

a little south of you and a little west of rhody ;)

[30 cal slut]

Actually there is plenty of blame for the mess we are in including you and I. People are often quick to point the finger and not accept personal responsiblity but we all had a hand in the current financial crisis.
Pat

Pat, you're wrong on that account.

Not to threadjack, but the current financial crisis was caused by the combination of

1) the dumbing down of bank lending standards by the democrats (particularly during the Clinton administration) - in the name of "affordable housing" policies,

and

2) low interest rates (federal reserve).

that is all, carry on. ;)

[R1pper]

a little south of you and a little west of rhody ;)

Hope you told your buddy to the shop that's "Closed 7 days a year"

[30 cal slut]

Hope you told your buddy to the shop that's "Closed 7 days a year"

That's MY shop.

My buddy can go pound sand and find one of his own. :sarcastic:

[d90king]

Okay, so I live in the liberal northeast in a state that has some fairly restrictive gun laws. Not the worst in the land, but they suck.

I have a buddy who just got bitten by BRD. Wicked bad. I mean, he is going crazy - he wants to buy multiple AR's in different flavors and a few shotties and a handgun or two. I've been taking him shooting a few times, so, I can claim yet another victim. muhahahahahahah.

Anyhoo, I find it deliciously ironic that he is a liberal democrat who in the past has supported antigun politicians.

Following is a conversation i had recently:



Sorry, just had to share, too funny. A lightbulb moment. :sarcastic:


AWESOME! So full of win that words escape me... I love it when things like this happen and they end up suffering the consequences of their votes.

Now maybe he will tell all his cronies and they will start a revolution in the NE...

[GermanSynergy]

30Cal,
Good on ya. While in the military I converted a lifetime San Francisco Democrat into an NRA Life member and multiple gun owner (who lives in TX now). She didn't hate guns per se, but only believed the negative hype associated with them that she had been fed all of her life.

[Littlelebowski]

30Cal,
Good on ya. While in the military I converted a lifetime San Francisco Democrat into an NRA Life member and multiple gun owner (who lives in TX now). She didn't hate guns per se, but only believed the negative hype associated with them that she had been fed all of her life.

Ah, the timeless art of seduction...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/joemilitello/den/costanza.jpg

[Ejh28]

And now I'm cleaning water off of my keyboard. Thanks Lebowski!

I've converted a couple friends to firearms in general, but they went from having no experiance in them, to pestering me on when the next time they can shoot MY guns! I try to get them to buy their own . . . Not working out so well thus far, haha

[Littlelebowski]

The resemblance to GS is uncanny..... :D

[30 cal slut]

Ah, the timeless art of seduction...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/joemilitello/den/costanza.jpg

okay, can i have some eye bleach now? :sarcastic:

[MistWolf]

What's BRD?

[Ejh28]

What's BRD?

Black Rifle Disease . . . Once you've got it, there is no cure. Just an empty bank account

[GermanSynergy]

Totally! :sarcastic:


The resemblance to GS is uncanny..... :D

[dookie1481]

If someone doesn't support gun ownership to at least what the Supreme Court has ruled, and is now law then how could I trust them to honor their oath to protect any other of my rights? Think of it as a litmus test.



9 times out of 10 if someone doesn't support gun rights then they are a big government statist I wouldn't vote for anyways. That last one making 10 would have me voting 3rd party.

Well said. This is exactly how I feel.

Jay

[dookie1481]

She didn't hate guns per se, but only believed the negative hype associated with them that she had been fed all of her life.

I've found that this is an issue with a large number of anti-gunners that I have encountered.

Their fear is often rooted in ignorance. When exposed to the truth, they tend to be much more open to the idea of having a firearm.

Jay

[R1pper]

That's MY shop.

My buddy can go pound sand and find one of his own. :sarcastic:


Hahahaha. I love that place! My bank account doesn't though! They are a great crew down there.

[Littlelebowski]

Next on the list is workers rights I am pro union.

Unions are destroying state and local economies in this country. They are overwhelmingly Democrat and unneeded in this day and age.

[Alaskapopo]

Unions are destroying state and local economies in this country. They are overwhelmingly Democrat and unneeded in this day and age.

You can believe whatever false hood you want.
Pat

[Nathan_Bell]

You can believe whatever false hood you want.
Pat

Legalizing public unions is the worst thing that JFK did to the nation, only thing he could have done worse was to start WWIII over the Cuban Missile Goat Roping.

[Alaskapopo]

Legalizing public unions is the worst thing that JFK did to the nation, only thing he could have done worse was to start WWIII over the Cuban Missile Goat Roping.

The people should always have the right to organize and negotiate as a group. To think otherwise is un American and anti freedom. Without unions those who work for a living are at the mercy of their employers.
Pat

[armakraut]

Government recognition of a union as the sole bargaining agent of private or public employees stands in complete disregard of a persons freedom to associate and contract with whomever they please. It would be like the NRA or AARP trying to get sole agent status for the people they claim to represent, then levying dues on everybody.

At least a private company doesn't have the power to shake down grandma and Joe the plumber when their unfunded pension liabilities reach critical mass. That's why public sector unions are dangerous. Even Roosevelt wasn't stupid enough to allow them. All private sector unions do is funnel jobs to states that don't let unions be the sole agent and overseas.

If you want a better pension system, have congress up the social security taxes and stop inflating the currency.

If you want cheap medical care, don't have the government pay for diseases 100% caused by the personal habits of adults.

[Nathan_Bell]

The people should always have the right to organize and negotiate as a group. To think otherwise is un American and anti freedom. Without unions those who work for a living are at the mercy of their employers.
Pat

Not according to RICO they are not, nor are they under the anti-trust regulations, nor under the anti-collusion and price fixing laws. There are a whole bunch of laws out there that govern attempted extortion or a conspiracy to commit. What most public sector unions' leadership, and so the union as a organism, does nowadays falls squarely into the actions that the RICO law is aimed at.

[GermanSynergy]

Yup. Look at the goons in the SEIU- shock troops for the Demokrat Partei.

One has to respect Ronald Reagan for firing the striking Air Traffic Controllers in 1981. :sarcastic:


Legalizing public unions is the worst thing that JFK did to the nation, only thing he could have done worse was to start WWIII over the Cuban Missile Goat Roping.

[theblackknight]

what state does the OP live in?

[jaydoc1]

Without unions those who work for a living are at the mercy of their employers.
Pat

Seriously, Dude. Could you finally just come clean and admit that you are a moveon.org plant?

Mercy of their employers? You mean the people who expect them to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay? The people who PROVIDE them with a job and income they otherwise wouldn't have? The people whose goal, ultimately, is to make sure their business succeeds? I know this isn't a particularly popular fact anymore but businesses exist to make money. They do not exist to support employees. Now, that being said, businesses also do not exist to abuse employees. So, even though at one time unions served a useful purpose I also believe their time had passed. This isn't China. There are no sweatshops here anymore (legally). The unions won. Employers must now treat their employees fairly by government mandate or face the consequences. Unions now exist to legally extort additional monies (both cash and benefits) from employers and to line the pockets of the union officials with money and power. There really isn't much more to it. Federal law now exists to protect the workers. So what, exactly, is the useful purpose that unions provide currently?

<rant off>

Oh, I'm also extremely sorry for the thread hijack.

[Low Drag]

The people should always have the right to organize and negotiate as a group. To think otherwise is un American and anti freedom. Without unions those who work for a living are at the mercy of their employers.
Pat

The only folks that are at the mercy of employers are uneducated, unskilled labor. Both conditions are in the hands of the employee.

Labor unions protect the lazy and discourage employees to excel and pull all employees (note I did not say 'workers') down to the lowest common denominator. It is socialism in a test tube.

How about this. Why don't you make your next AR purchase from a union shop? One where the union protects the lowest common denominator at all cost? Would you be willing to plunk down $1,500 + for that? If you do you'll find you could get more gun for the same money else where or it is of lower quality.

[MistWolf]

There are good things about unions and bad things. When manufacturing & management work together to improve conditions, quality & efficiency as they did at the Saturn plant, it will bring out the positives of organized labor.

When the unions were providing muscle to intimidate folks from speaking out against Obama care at the town meetings, for example, it clearly showed the corruption that pervades organized labor. In my opinion, unions have recently hit new lows as they never have before

[justin_247]

The people should always have the right to organize and negotiate as a group. To think otherwise is un American and anti freedom. Without unions those who work for a living are at the mercy of their employers.
Pat

Please note that the quotation is question was concerning PUBLIC unions, not private. Nobody whose pay comes from the taxpayer should be allowed to unionise - period.

As for private unions, they should be perfectly legal. However, no person should have to join the union in order to be employed by that company - that is a violation of that person's individual rights. This is where the "right to work" comes into play. Given the choice, the vast majority of people have no interest in unions.

Also, if your union is responsible for driving a company into financial disorder, as occurred with the auto industry, you shouldn't expect the government to come in and save you. We should have let GM and Chrysler fall.

[Littlelebowski]

Please note that the quotation is question was concerning PUBLIC unions, not private. Nobody whose pay comes from the taxpayer should be allowed to unionise - period.


Dead right. Anyone who's dealt with gov't employees should know this.

[GermanSynergy]

I was married to one. :eek:


Dead right. Anyone who's dealt with gov't employees should know this.