View Full Version : Yankee Hill Bolts and BCGs - Questions
I can't seem to find any detailed info on Yankee Hill bolts and BCGs, such as whether they are MPI'd, materials used, etc. Any info on this would be much appreciated.
Basically, are they mil-spec?
Thanks.
Most BCGs come from the same 3 or 4 places the large manufactures of these parts use 158 for the bolt and 8620 for the carrier. 158 has to be purchased as a mill run which is more material than most companies would need this is why the large guys are still using 158.
After the election the demand for bolts was so high and there are many subcontractors that can do this part with ease, BUT they didn't want to buy a whole mill run of 158. They looked to 9310 because it can be purchased in smaller lots and had already been used for AR bolts though very limited. 9310 does cost more BUT is sold in a size close to the bolts OD so the waste is lower.
As for MPI and Proof tests, these are just QC steps because thats all that sperates these 158/8620 combos from military grade. If you have a 158/8260 combo there a huge chance it came from the same place/s that supply TDP holders and spare part suppliers for the military.
I don't buy MPI or Proof test bolts or carriers, mainly because I know the suppliers and what material they use, if its 158/8620 I buy. If I don't know or if its some new metal I pass.
A good 158 bolt will last a long while, its the salting of 8620 bolts on the market by part kit suppliers that have hurt the ARs reputation when it comes to bolts.
As for the carrier this part hardy ever breaks, 8620 is cheap and easy to find, so almost all people cutting these already use it. That shot peen finish is crap IMO. What seperates a good and bad one is the internal grind and honing of the part. A good gas key attached is more important it should be at least 4140 and the carrier top should be precision ground for good key seal. Oh and of course a good staking. I double stake from the top per the USMC spec and from the sides.
justin_247
11-17-10, 08:24
Most BCGs come from the same 3 or 4 places the large manufactures of these parts use 158 for the bolt and 8620 for the carrier... As for MPI and Proof tests, these are just QC steps because thats all that sperates these 158/8620 combos from military grade. If you have a 158/8260 combo there a huge chance it came from the same place/s that supply TDP holders and spare part suppliers for the military.
I don't believe this for a minute. Just for top tier manufacturers, there's a whole slew of companies who make their own bolts: Colt, LMT, DD, FN, KAC...
BCM contracts from an unknown company that makes quality bolts.
Then there's AO Precision and CMT, which contract for many manufacturers.
LWRC, Rock Rivers Arms, Olympic, Young Manufacturing, and Bushmaster supposedly manufacture their own, as well.
And I'm clueless about who makes bolts for DPMS, Hesse, Vulcan, M1S, etc.
That's 13 companies not including the last few. Of that, I would only buy bolts from a few.
Your logic is based upon misinformation.
.....That shot peen test is crap IMO. .....
======================================
From what I understand, Shot Peening is a surface treatment. Basically, the surface is "hammered" with BB's. Kind of like sandblasting with special BB's. This treatment makes the surface more wear resistant.
.
I didnt mean test on the carrier , I meant surface that was a typo, thanks
And I will stand buy the 3 or 4 statement I said most and it is most. Not that all companies buy from 3 or 4 or that all types of speciality, piston, enhanced or "match" grade bolts come from them, though some do. I said most because it truly is a fact most come from 3 or 4 companies.
As for your list of names I know FOR A FACT many of them sub bolts and most buy parts from those big 3-4 companies. When companies run out or can't get/make enough they just buy from someone else. When someone lowers there price on a part they switch to the other guy. The AR market is different than almost all other firemarms markets in the US, because of the guns modularity the AR industry is as much of a family as the weapon itself. Like any family they fight and pick there sides but almost all of them know each well enough and deal with each other in some form or get supper from the same tables.
Buy a 158/8620 combo and you'll be GTG
I'm not going to drop names since I worked in the industry and still do, but on here you guys are on the right track compared to the other forum, but still too trusting in what you are told or hear from manufactures and their PR junkies (also know as friends/customers)
My logic based on that I worked with a lot of these companies on a daliy/weekly basis.
I didnt mean test on the carrier a type I meant surface was a typo
And I will stand buy the 3 or 4 statement I said most and it is most. Not that all companies buy for 3 or 4 or any type of speciality piston companies bolt or "match" grade comes from them though some do. I said most because it is truly is a fact most come from 3 or 4 companies.
As for your list of names I know FOR A FACT many of them sub bolts and most parts from those big 3-4 companies. When companies run out or can't get/make enough they just buy from someone else. When someone lowers there price on a part they switch to the other guy. The AR market is different than almost all other firemarms markets in the US, because of its modularity the AR industry is as much of a family as the weapon itself. Like any family they fight and pick there sides but almost all of them know each well enough and deal with each other.
Buy a 158/8620 combo and you'll be GTG
I'm not going to drop names since I worked in the industry and still do, but on here you guys are on the right track compared to the other forum, but still too trusting in what you are told or hear from manufactures and there PR junkies (also know as friends/customers)
My logic based on that I worked with a lot of these companies on a daliy/weekly basis.
If you're going to throw around these allegations; "I KNOW FOR A FACT..." then you bets back it up with the actual facts, and not some, "oh I can't drop names, but take my word I work in the industry..." BS. You say that on this forum we take the word of the manufacturers and we shouldn't, but we should take your word blindly? I believe there is a word for that...hypocrite.
So please, by all means provide these "facts" so we can all be better educated on the matter.
If you're going to throw around these allegations; "I KNOW FOR A FACT..." then you bets back it up with the actual facts, and not some, "oh I can't drop names, but take my word I work in the industry..." BS. You say that on this forum we take the word of the manufacturers and we shouldn't, but we should take your word blindly? I believe there is a word for that...hypocrite.
So please, by all means provide these "facts" so we can all be better educated on the matter.
No for contract reasons I will not. Also understand one thing the most important thing, those top tier companies everyone loves here have NEVER that I know of sourced or subcontracted out for shit parts. Their reputations are what they are because of this very thing. Buy with confidance from those guys. Those companies do know whats best for you for your money. The top tier is my favorite section of the industry for this reason. But when it comes to some of these parts there just too cut and dry in how the industry deals with those parts.
I don't need anyone to believe me or care I'm tring to help a guy out that looking for a BCG. It is a free country I can say the4 word fact because to me it is, I don't have to disclose it to you for it to become a fact. Everyone on the net states their crap opinions as fact or maybe they don't use the word and its accepted or not like the guy that replied to me, so... its a fact to me you don't have to accept it or listen to it. If it makes you feel better I will not use the word fact again and what I post will get mixed in with all the crap out there.
Also I added and edited to that post read it again I don't spend much time on the forums or posting and where the hell is the spellcheck on this forum the other forum has a spell check icon.
No for contract reasons I will not. Also understand one thing the most important thing, those top tier companies everyone loves here have NEVER that I know of sourced or subcontracted out for shit parts. Their reputations are what they are because of this very thing. Buy with confidance from those guys. Those companies do know whats best for you for your money. The top tier is my favorite section of the industry for this reason.
Okay, top tier companies don't use bad parts and I can buy with confidence from top tier companies; that is as obvious of a statement that could be made.
If you don't want to provide the facts, thats fine; just don't go around making statements you care not to back up with said facts.
Making a statement like "You are on the right track here on this forum but still take the word of the manufacturers..." and saying "I know for a FACT, you should take my word..." is bunch of bunk.
Either provide the facts to back your own statements up or don't qualify the statement in the first place.
No for contract reasons I will not. Also understand one thing the most important thing, those top tier companies everyone loves here have NEVER that I know of sourced or subcontracted out for shit parts. Their reputations are what they are because of this very thing. Buy with confidance from those guys. Those companies do know whats best for you for your money. The top tier is my favorite section of the industry for this reason.
I don't need anyone to believe me or care I'm tring to help a guy out that looking for a BCG. It is a free country I can say the4 word fact because to me it is, I don't have to disclose it to you for it to become a fact. Everyone on the net states their crap opinions as fact or maybe they don't use the word and its accepted or not like the guy that replied to me, so... its a fact to me you don't have to accept it or listen to it. If it makes you feel better I will not use the word fact again and what I post will get mixed in with all the crap out there.
Also I added and edited to that post read it again I don't spend much time on the forums or posting and where the hell is the spellcheck on this forum the other forum has a spell check icon.
Your definition of a "fact" differs very much from mine.
Not backing up statements is why there is so much "Crap" you speak of on the net. Back it up, make it a fact, otherwise it's just some guy opining on the web.
Okay, top tier companies don't use bad parts and I can buy with confidence from top tier companies; that is as obvious of a statement that could be made.
If you don't want to provide the facts, thats fine; just don't go around making statements you care not to back up with said facts.
Making a statement like "You are on the right track here on this forum but still take the word of the manufacturers..." and saying "I know for a FACT, you should take my word..." is bunch of bunk.
Either provide the facts to back your own statements up or don't qualify the statement in the first place.
The net is bunk in general and same with these forum this one is the best IMO on this matter. No company really wants people to know that they subcontract, it their goal to hide that. I have been to a lot of gun companies and its the industry standard to subcontract and a large section subcontract it all. I didn't accept this because then you don't have control of production as much. I changed this with my old company and its true business partners not subcontractors. We still had to subcontract and outsource, but to a much much smaller degree than 90% of the AR market.
I don't believe this for a minute. Just for top tier manufacturers, there's a whole slew of companies who make their own bolts: Colt, LMT, DD, FN, KAC...
BCM contracts from an unknown company that makes quality bolts.
Then there's AO Precision and CMT, which contract for many manufacturers.
LWRC, Rock Rivers Arms, Olympic, Young Manufacturing, and Bushmaster supposedly manufacture their own, as well.
And I'm clueless about who makes bolts for DPMS, Hesse, Vulcan, M1S, etc.
That's 13 companies not including the last few. Of that, I would only buy bolts from a few.
Your logic is based upon misinformation.
so is some of yours
yhm makes the following
b/m
dpms
some r.r
olympic
the following make almost nothing
colt
cmt (makes for colt)\
hesse vulcan m-1 sales are all crap . no 1 cares
lmt bolts look just like yhm in tooling marks. at the shot show carl lewis would not confirm or deny who made his bolts. great gear, so no 1 cares.
we sell a lot of yhm and have been in the factory in mass. watching the boxes go out to many well known vendors. have you???
several of the companies u named i am not even familiar with 3rd tier at best. when u go to a bcg company and want to buy bcg, they ask what u want to pay and price parts accordingly.
u need to lighten up a little. many people on this board know a lot. u don't seem to be 1 of them
i use yhm bcg in all my guns. i will bet my life on them. have ar's running 9-10k in rds just to see, when thy will fail. no jams yet.
probably sell 100 bolts a year. just shipped 55 to a state police agency who trialed 3 bolts for 60 days. guess who the vendor was. and u have seen how many again please??????????????
YHM has been a OEM supplier for a long time and a large sleeper on this sector of the AR market. BUT always understand all these companies buy from many sources not just one, maybe one if its a pin or screw but after the election where a sight dent stopped rifles from shipping and by the time companies had all the parts the market tanked, any company that went through that now buys from many sources. This is also the reason companies are going out of business and more to follow. It was just a race to ship first and most and the system for procurement made that race very tough.
TRUST ME IT'S A MESS
Great, we have all sorts of informationa nd opinions about who manufactures bolts for who; nohne of it backed up with any facts; and the OP's question is not answered.
So plsease someone simply answer the question without all the white noise:
Does YHM MPI HPT there bolts? What material do they use?
u are 101% correct.
that is why i only sell quality products
d.d
lmt
yhm
the huge amount of crap out there is staggering. went to my 1st gun show in about a year this weekend. 1 cheap parts company was telling (false hoods ????" tpo almost every customer coming by.
had 18sh girl tell them everything was all colt. oh sure.
good post
tks
justin_247
11-17-10, 11:37
It'll be very entertaining once one of the SMEs looks at this thread. Lots of silliness...
Yankee Hill Macine does not manufacture bolts, let alone conduct HPT or MPI testing on there their bolts. They buy them from Stag. FYI.
It'll be very entertaining once one of the SMEs looks at this thread. Lots of silliness...
Indeed, I've been eagerly anticipating a SME showing up...
I don't believe this for a minute. Just for top tier manufacturers, there's a whole slew of companies who make their own bolts: Colt, LMT, DD, FN, KAC...
BCM contracts from an unknown company that makes quality bolts.
Then there's AO Precision and CMT, which contract for many manufacturers.
LWRC, Rock Rivers Arms, Olympic, Young Manufacturing, and Bushmaster supposedly manufacture their own, as well.
And I'm clueless about who makes bolts for DPMS, Hesse, Vulcan, M1S, etc.
That's 13 companies not including the last few. Of that, I would only buy bolts from a few.
Your logic is based upon misinformation.
Last I knew, BCM has three bolt contractors. I know one is CMT and I'm 99% sure another is AO Precision.
so is some of yours
the following make almost nothing
colt
stag (makes for colt)\
Holy shit, you couldn't be more incorrect. I guess barrels, bolts, receivers, and bolt carriers is almost nothing huh? All those are made in house in Hartford.
Stag doesn't make Colt parts. :suicide:
Complication
11-17-10, 12:38
I don't buy MPI or Proof test bolts or carriers, mainly because I know the suppliers and what material they use, if its 158/8620 I buy. If I don't know or if its some new metal I pass.
As I understand it, you can make a thousands bolts/carriers from the same batch of metal, using the same process, all by the same people, and some will be 100% and some won't pass muster. That's why you rely on QC tests.
Saying that just because something was made with a particular material doesn't mean it's 100%. You can hand some 158/8620 to a shop student and ask him to cut you something that looks like a bolt, but that doesn't mean shit about how reliable the end product is. Hence the testing.
Surely you're not suggesting that QC is irrelevant as long as the right material is used and it's made by the right company. Because that would be asinine and demonstrably false.
This was my question to them:
>
> Looking for some information on your products. What metal do you make your
> bolts/BCG'S out of? Do you HPT & MPI your bolts/BCG's? If so do you batch test or test every single unit?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
Direct from YHM:
"Sir,
Thank you for your interest in our products. We do not manufacture the bolts and bolt carrier groups. We purchase them from Stag Arms. They are all mil-spec. I Do not know what type of metal they are made of. Perhaps if you contact Stag Arms directly they can better answer the very specific questions you have. I can tell you we have been useing them for years and in the 3 plus years I have been here we have not had one problem or failure with any of them that we have sold."
SO, he can assure me they are milspec but knows not what metal they are made of? right:rolleyes:
I sent stag the same request and will post it when I get a response.
As I understand it, you can make a thousands bolts/carriers from the same batch of metal, using the same process, all by the same people, and some will be 100% and some won't pass muster. That's why you rely on QC tests.
Saying that just because something was made with a particular material doesn't mean it's 100%. You can hand some 158/8620 to a shop student and ask him to cut you something that looks like a bolt, but that doesn't mean shit about how reliable the end product is. Hence the testing.
Surely you're not suggesting that QC is irrelevant as long as the right material is used and it's made by the right company. Because that would be asinine and demonstrably false.
NO I'm not suggesting that at all I don't pay extra for it because I never trust any firearm or it parts till I get a few thousand rounds down range. That said when I buy bolts made from 158 they seem to never break them. This is the way I do things I didn't suggest people do the same all I suggested is that people only buy 158/8620 BCGs. BUT I do not agree with proof testing a bolt the barrel yes but I don't like doing bolts.
BTW I do run one LMT enhanced bolt with is proof and MPI tested and I have a spare LMT bolt too. I only run one 158 bolt it has under 5000 rounds at this point. I'm mainly talking about the past because I love this LMT design.
Complication
11-17-10, 13:00
NO I'm not suggesting that at all I don't pay extra for it because I never trust any firearm or it parts till I get a few thousand rounds down range. That said when I buy bolts made from 158 I seem to never break them. This is the why I do things I didn't suggest people do the same all I suggested is that people only buy 158/8620 BCGs. BUT I do not agree with proof testing a bolt the barrel yes but I don't like doing bolts.
BTW I do run one LMT enhanced bolt with is proof and MPI tested and I have a spare LMT bolt too. I only run one 158 bolt it has under 5000 rounds at this point. I'm maining talking about the past because I love this LMT design.
Well, I don't think anyone is suggesting that testing the bolt and/or carrier will definitively result is a 100.000000000% piece of equipment. And I don't know anyone who would suggest depending on a gun without testing it thoroughly yourself first.
BUT you CAN definitively say that testing BCGs WILL raise the chances of you getting a longer-lasting, more dependable piece of kit, IF testing ever results in failed components (which it does--so it's true).
So besides paying a little bit more for quality parts (which you've already advocated), what on earth is the logic of running away when a mfg suggests that they test their equipment before selling it to you.
Quality manufacturers test their parts. That's what makes them quality manufacturers--attention to detail and the determination to produce quality equipment. Are you suggesting that you should buy quality parts but go out of your way not to buy tested components? Because that would also be asinine--how the hell do you know they're quality if they're not QUALITY CONTROLLED?
Its nice to see companies disclosing this stuff. Since they are now doing this I will say that YHM makes stripped uppers for many companies and they are really nice.
Well, I don't think anyone is suggesting that testing the bolt and/or carrier will definitively result is a 100.000000000% piece of equipment. And I don't know anyone who would suggest depending on a gun without testing it thoroughly yourself first.
BUT you CAN definitively say that testing BCGs WILL raise the chances of you getting a longer-lasting, more dependable piece of kit, IF testing ever results in failed components (which it does--so it's true).
So besides paying a little bit more for quality parts (which you've already advocated), what on earth is the logic of running away when a mfg suggests that they test their equipment before selling it to you.
Quality manufacturers test their parts. That's what makes them quality manufacturers--attention to detail and the determination to produce quality equipment. Are you suggesting that you should buy quality parts but go out of your way not to buy tested components? Because that would also be asinine--how the hell do you know they're quality if they're not QUALITY CONTROLLED?
Because I'm cheap and have BRD real bad and need all the funds I can to feed my addiction LOL.
No but really.....
I beleive proof testing a AR15 type bolt of standard design can be bad for the part UNLESS I know where the proof load came from or could veiw the certs. I have seen PSI fromk the certs sheets vary greatly from lot to lot or one manufacture to the next. Yes PSI not CUP this is how many rate thier proof loads and then there are other that use CUP so I choose to avoid them but its just personal.
SO YES I AVOID PROOF tested standard design AR bolts.
Its nice to see companies disclosing this stuff. Since they are now doing this I will say that YHM makes stripped uppers for many companies and they are really nice.
That is a very debatable statement.
I never saw any issue with them they used good forgings and where machined center. Their bore was machined correct as well.
Just a warning. If you post some crap in here and answer a question you better have some sources to back it. I think the correspondence from YHM is proof enough. We aren't going to debate HP/MPI, shot peening, etc...it's been discussed before.
If you choose to buy crap do so on your time and dime. Don't recommend it to others.
Just a warning. If you post some crap in here and answer a question you better have some sources to back it. I think the correspondence from YHM is proof enough. We aren't going to debate HP/MPI, shot peening, etc...it's been discussed before.
If you choose to buy crap do so on your time and dime. Don't recommend it to others.
Amen!
Just a warning. If you post some crap in here and answer a question you better have some sources to back it. I think the correspondence from YHM is proof enough. We aren't going to debate HP/MPI, shot peening, etc...it's been discussed before.
If you choose to buy crap do so on your time and dime. Don't recommend it to others.
Okie. Here's the article with the pictures inside Colt Defense's factory:
Notice all the machines, notice the bare receivers that have just been machined.
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/the-making-of-the-militarys-standard-arms/?tham=&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2
I did recommend, I recommended 158/8620 BCG and thats all I recommened the rest are my opinions on the parts themselves. I clearly stated they were what I personaly do, I didn't tell him to do anything more than buy a
158/8620 BCG which I still recommend
As for buying crap I stated why and BTW some of your site sponsors sell NON shot peened, HP or MPI BCG, so are you saying your site sponsors sell crap? Thats not nice, and if we can't recommend what you call crap, they why can they? So now we can't recommend the sites sponsors?
I recommend YHM because they use one of the big companies to get BCGs from, there product is 158/8620.
I did recommend, I recommended 158/8620 BCG and thats all I recommened the rest are my opinions. I clearly stated they were what I personaly do, I didn't tell him to do anything more than buy a
158/8620 BCG
That's so illogical it hurts.
I did recommend, I recommended 158/8620 BCG and thats all I recommened the rest are my opinions on the parts themselves. I clearly stated they were what I personaly do, I didn't tell him to do anything more than buy a
158/8620 BCG which I still recommend
As for buying crap I stated why and BTW some of your site sponsors sell NON shot peened, HP or MPI BCG, so are you saying your site sponsors sell crap? Thats not nice, and if we can't recommend what you call crap, they why can they? So now we can't recommend the sites sponsors?
I recommend YHM because they use one of the big companies to get BCGs from, there product is 158/8620.
So now they are your opinions and not "facts" like you stated before?
Interesting...
So now they are your opinions and not "facts" like you stated before?
Interesting...
What i do are my opinions when I state its fact it is a fact to me I don't care what you beleive. I guess your doing this for post count reasons not for adding tech info or recommendations.
Fact YHM sells BCGs
Fact YHM buys them like I was alluding to
Fact YHM buys them from lead source like I said
Fact YHM sells 158/8620 because its from a lead source that only makes them like that
Fact YHM is doing what I said alot of manufactures do
FACT you are for some reason looking for a fight in this not to help recommend to this OP
FACT my first post about subcontracting and outsourcing was proven to be right later in this post by YOU
FACT a lot of companies are not recommended even though they get thier parts from the same companies as recommended vendors/manufactures.
What is wrong with you?
What i do are my opinions when I state its fact it is a fact to me I don't care what you beleive. I guess your doing this for post count reasons not for adding tech info or recommendations.
Dude,
I couldn't care less of my "Post count". I'm just calling you out on your BS. Stating your opinion as a fact is BS. If you think your opinion of things automatically makes things facts, I cannot change your mental shortcomings.
"When I state it is a fact, it is a fact to me"
^This is known as ones opinion, not a fact; FYI...
Good day.
Dude,
I couldn't care less of my "Post count". I'm just calling you out on your BS. Stating your opinion as a fact is BS. If you think your opinion of things automatically makes things facts, I cannot change your mental shortcomings.
"When I state it is a fact, it is a fact to me"
^This is known as ones opinion, not a fact; FYI...
Good day.
You proved me right with your email to YHM dork so my BS was true and really it don't matter.
I just think it's unfair to snob companies when the parts are the same a lot of the time.
YHM gets STAG bolts which people like
YHM gets bolts from STAG and STAG is part of company..... yea a large company that supplies many m4carbine.net fan favorite companies as well.
So to the OP YHM is GTG
Thought of the day. Why buy a YHM BCG that hasn't been HP/MPI tested and inspected when you can get ones that have?
What i do are my opinions when I state its fact it is a fact to me I don't care what you beleive. I guess your doing this for post count reasons not for adding tech info or recommendations.
Fact YHM sells BCGs
Fact YHM buys them like I was alluding to
Fact YHM buys them from lead source like I said
Fact YHM sells 158/8620 because its from a lead source that only makes them like that
Fact YHM is doing what I said alot of manufactures do
FACT you are for some reason looking for a fight in this not to help recommend to this OP
FACT my first post about subcontracting and outsourcing was proven to be right later in this post by YOU
FACT a lot of companies are not recommended even though they get thier parts from the same companies as recommended vendors/manufactures.
What is wrong with you?
You proved me right with your email to YHM dork so my BS was true and really it don't matter.
I just think it's unfair to snob companies when the parts are the same a lot of the time.
Name calling, the true sign of high intelligence.
Tell me again how and what I proved with an email confirmation from YHM? They get there bolts from stag? So what? Does that automatically mean that every company out there gets them from stag? Nope. Does that mean your statement is any more or less correct? Nope.
The only thing I proved is that you don't know the difference between your opinion and a recognized fact, and that YHM bolts are sub-par and sourced from stag.
Complication
11-17-10, 14:23
Thought of the day. Why buy a YHM BCG that hasn't been HP/MPI tested and inspected when you can get ones that have?
Because you have to fund your "BRD," duh. Haven't you been listening? Gotta cut corners somewhere, better do it where it doesn't matter, like quality control!
Complication
11-17-10, 14:24
Sorry, forgot to add "LOL".
Name calling, the true sign of high intelligence.
Tell me again how and what I proved with an email confirmation from YHM? They get there bolts from stag? So what? Does that automatically mean that every company out there gets them from stag? Nope. Does that mean your statement is any more or less correct? Nope.
The only thing I proved is that you don't know the difference between your opinion and a recognized fact, and that YHM bolts are sub-par and sourced from stag.
Once again I said MOST not ALL
STAG bolts come from...... OMG from the same place as the most treasured company on m4carbine.net gets thiers from.
Also I gave my reasons for MY choice in a BCG its about the HP test and the mod said we can't discuss that and I'm cool with that, because my mind it made up on that issue and
I have my own personal opinion on it.
YHM is GTG
What i do are my opinions when I state its fact it is a fact to me I don't care what you beleive. I guess your doing this for post count reasons not for adding tech info or recommendations.
Fact YHM sells BCGs
Fact YHM buys them like I was alluding to
Fact YHM buys them from lead source like I said
Fact YHM sells 158/8620 because its from a lead source that only makes them like that
Fact YHM is doing what I said alot of manufactures do
FACT you are for some reason looking for a fight in this not to help recommend to this OP
FACT my first post about subcontracting and outsourcing was proven to be right later in this post by YOU
FACT a lot of companies are not recommended even though they get thier parts from the same companies as recommended vendors/manufactures.
What is wrong with you?
I am so very obviously not looking for a fight; I am being very cordial whilst you call me names. I am trying to help the OP sift through the BS on this thread. There is quite a bit of it.
-BS like MPI & HPT is not necesarry (Your Opinion, again not a fact.)
-BS like YHM is GTG because stag is GTG? (Your opinion, again not a fact)
The op was specifically interested in the testing of YHM bolts, which you didn't even touch on except to opine that those tests are not necessary (Opinion, again not a fact).
YHM is middle tier to lower tier all the way; the proof is in the pudding, just go do the research. This site is a very good tool for that.
This has gotten way off track and just convoluted as all hell.
These are the real facts of this thread:
Stag does not MPI or HPT test every single botl/BCG they source to YHM
YHM sources them from Stag who uses 8260 steel and batch tests (Stag is a known lower-middle tier manufacturer)
I am done here.
Once again I said MOST not ALL
STAG bolts come from...... OMG from the same place as the most treasured company on m4carbine.net gets thiers from.
Also I gave my reasons for MY choice in a BCG its about the HP test and the mod said we can't discuss that and I'm cool with that, because my mind it made up on that issue and
I have my own personal opinion on it.
YHM is GTG
You're not familiar with manufacturing are you? You do realize the company that purchases from the manufacturer specifies the quality of the part they want to purchase based upon the price they wish to sell their product at. Just in case you didn't know, one brand could be crap compared to another brand even if they came from the same factory. It all depends on the buyer's specifications.
Thought of the day. Why buy a YHM BCG that hasn't been HP/MPI tested and inspected when you can get ones that have?
You said we can't discuss that, didn't you?
Why buy a YHM? Because like I said a lot of companies get they from the same sources so why not? Now thanks to that guy looking for a fight in this thread we know YHM gets them from STAG which turns out to be part of the same company as the choosen source for the most Beloved m4carbine.net vendor.
Only reason not to at this point is if your looking only for HP test or something, but we cannot discuss this here per you.
YHM is GTG
You're not familiar with manufacturing are you? You do realize the company that purchases from the manufacturer specifies the quality of the part they want to purchase based upon the price they wish to sell their product at. Just in case you didn't know, one brand could be crap compared to another brand even if they came from the same factory. It all depends on the buyer's specifications.
Yes you are correct they can choose different grades but this is done with bolts and carriers in the form of tests.
The way those two parts are made and the volume those 2 parts have to be made in to make them cheap enough they don't run 2 production lines. Having ordered from both STAG and their parent company I have never seen a differance.
YHM is GTG on BCGs which is what we are talking about BCGs and the OP asked about YHM in general not just testing he said he hasn't heard anything about them now he has, your email played a big part in that.
YHM uses STAG 158/8620 BCGs the only choice now is the testing and we cannot discuss that.
I never said YHM is top tier I said that most companies buy parts from the same sources which was proven in your email at least in terms of what YHM does.
Again I never said that testing is BS or unneeded for everyone, I said for me it is, lots of people post what is BS or uneeded to/for them, thats what forums are for.
I didn't say YHM GTG is fact you your saying that. If i didn't say its a fact then its a ....... right opinion just like saying Vltor uppers are GTG that would be a.... opinion saying the MUR is a machined forging is a ...... fact, at least for now it used to be a machined billet.
Read what I said the facts are before you post.
Here is a thread with opinions and its even titled opinions and has a poll of opinions and its on the same page as this thread.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=67100
So opinions do exist on m4carbine.net there just hated in this thread I guess.
Mods understand I didn't keep this going but i didn't back down when misquoted ether, and at the end of the day what I said was true and the OP and everyone that reads this knows more about YHM and knows they use the same source as many others on this site and that they don't need to be looked over as much in the future.
The messed up thing here is I don't even use YHM so I'm helping a company that I don't even know if I like.
But what i don't like is when people discredit companies like them for false reasons or when most of this shit is all the same.
Once again I said MOST not ALL
STAG bolts come from...... OMG from the same place as the most treasured company on m4carbine.net gets thiers from.
Which company is this?
C4
Which company is this?
C4
I'm going out on a limb and I'm going to say he is talking about BCM since I posted one of Paul's manufacturers is, or at least was, CMT. I say this because one of my BCM bolts is marked CM and MPT. I also know my BCM bolt was made to the TDP and who made it is irrelevant as long as it was made to the TDP.
Which company is this?
C4
I don't think its fair to state companies by name for the same reason I don't think its fair to discredit companies that buy the same parts ether.
YES IT IS IRRELEVANT who cares where its from if you want a tested bolt buy it, if its made right. If non tested is okay then, YHM is okay if its made right and I bet it is since its coming from the same place as other companies source from.
OMG is the point across yet??????
Are we done with this little lesson in how a large part of the AR world is?
lethal dose
11-17-10, 15:18
This thread is completely muddled with garbage. Dszm4, check yourself... discrediting qc tests is foolish. Like grant said, why buy one that is not hpi/mp tested when, for virtually the same price, you can buy one that is. Look at some of the lower tier companies... a lot of them are lower tier because they don't use or quit using qc procedures.
I have always recommended high end companies. Like I said they will do you right and your money right I already said that.
If they were priced the same which they are not because you can always find deals. There are still reasons but we can't discuss them here. But since your asking and the mod himself I will be brief.
I stated my reasons for not buying HPT bolts thats my opinion. As for MP I could care less but almost all MP bolts are HPT too and I don't happen to care for HPT so I don't go that route. The irony here is I run a LMT enhanced bolt which is HPT but I have no choice and its not a standard designed bolt which I'm okay with a HPT test on it.
This is all moot because it's my opinion you don't have to do it yourself. I beleive its a valid opinion and while you may disagree its not like I'm saying you can shoot 204 out of a 223 or something crazy like that. I would think opinions would be wanted here if there not crazy or way off base.
FACT is, a proof round is a extremly hot round and proof loads are not SAAMI spec and can be different from different manufactures. This may bug people like me, and I see nothing wrong with saying that.
ALSO there are some people that don't want a test fired/used bolt I don't agree with this or care if there "used" but ithats their opinion not mine.
Whytep38,
This thread has gone away from your original question. I don't know after some looking what standards YHM holds their BCGs to. I will say this if you are looking for a bolt carrier group Yankee Hill sells them on their website for $123. It is not a full auto carrier and gives no description of metal or QC used:
http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product542.html
If you are willing to spend only $17 more you can get this:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm
BCM® (MPI) complete bolt carrier group is fully assembled. Bolt carrier group (auto version) for your AR15, M16, or M4. Parkerized exterior and chrome lined inside carrier. Machined to USGI specifications. This M16/M4 carrier includes the proper Mil-Spec gas key. Gas key is chrome lined and heat treated per GI specifications. Gas key is secured to carrier via USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners and properly staked per Mil-Specs. These properly hardened parts insure a strong staking and proper gas system functioning. The bolt assembly is machined from the correct Mil-Spec Carpenter No. 158® steel, shot peened for increased strength, includes tool steel machined extractor and ejector, BCM Extractor Spring, and is HPT (High Pressure Tested) and MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected).
Features Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel HPT Bolt (High Pressure Tested/ Proof) MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Shot Peened Bolt Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO) Chrome Lined Gas Key Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners Key Staked Per Mil-Spec Tool Steel Extractor BCM Extractor Spring Black Extractor Insert Mil-Spec Crane O-Ring
It says something to me that a company would say this up front. Not dissing on Yankee Hill but there is absolutely no description of what their BCG has had done to it. That extra $17 is nice for piece of mind. I realize this doesn't answer your question but the lack of information might be a clue. Good luck man.
-Jax
Whytep38,
This thread has gone away from your original question. I don't know after some looking what standards YHM holds their BCGs to. I will say this if you are looking for a bolt carrier group Yankee Hill sells them on their website for $123. It is not a full auto carrier and gives no description of metal or QC used:
http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product542.html
If you are willing to spend only $17 more you can get this:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm
BCM® (MPI) complete bolt carrier group is fully assembled. Bolt carrier group (auto version) for your AR15, M16, or M4. Parkerized exterior and chrome lined inside carrier. Machined to USGI specifications. This M16/M4 carrier includes the proper Mil-Spec gas key. Gas key is chrome lined and heat treated per GI specifications. Gas key is secured to carrier via USGI domestic mfg Grade 8 fasteners and properly staked per Mil-Specs. These properly hardened parts insure a strong staking and proper gas system functioning. The bolt assembly is machined from the correct Mil-Spec Carpenter No. 158® steel, shot peened for increased strength, includes tool steel machined extractor and ejector, BCM Extractor Spring, and is HPT (High Pressure Tested) and MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected).
Features Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel HPT Bolt (High Pressure Tested/ Proof) MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Shot Peened Bolt Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO) Chrome Lined Gas Key Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners Key Staked Per Mil-Spec Tool Steel Extractor BCM Extractor Spring Black Extractor Insert Mil-Spec Crane O-Ring
It says something to me that a company would say this up front. Not dissing on Yankee Hill but there is absolutely no description of what their BCG has had done to it. That extra $17 is nice for piece of mind. I realize this doesn't answer your question but the lack of information might be a clue. Good luck man.
-Jax
You nailed it like I said these companies are here to give you what you may want and do the best by you and your money. THAT THEY CARE ALONE should make a differance BUT does not mean the others parts are bad and even different at all. For all we know YHM is tested IDK. What I do know is we have to start understanding this AR market for what it is, and not discredit all these other non tacticool companies because there not a certain name.
I am sorry to do this post but I get sick of all this shit information, lies, distrust and lack of knowledge in the AR industy
I don't think its fair to state companies by name for the same reason I don't think its fair to discredit companies that buy the same parts ether.
YES IT IS IRRELEVANT who cares where its from if you want a tested bolt buy it, if its made right. If non tested is okay then, YHM is okay if its made right and I bet it is since its coming from the same place as other companies source from.
OMG is the point across yet??????
Are we done with this little lesson in how a large part of the AR world is?
Since you are aren't naming names, let's put some of this in context.
Colt (for instance), buys parts from other companies (as they no longer make everything in house). When they get the parts their ordered, they go into a inspection area. Colt does their own QC before allowing the part(s) to make it out onto the assembly floor. If the part does not meet their standards, the part goes back to the manufacturer.
Another company also buys parts from the same company as Colt. Just one problem though, they do not QC the parts they get and in SOME instances, gets the Colt rejected parts.
So are the parts you get from one company the same quality as you get from another? No (as one does QC and the other one does not).
YHM buys BCG's from CMT. Great. They don't do HPT or MPI on them. So that means that they don't catch about 3%-5% of the failures that HPT and MPI discovers. The company that does HPT/MPI also (Typically) has jigs setup so that they can quickly QC the dimensions on each and every BCG. So you, the consumer are much less likely to receive a bad one.
C4
Since you are aren't naming names, let's put some of this in context.
Colt (for instance), buys parts from other companies (as they no longer make everything in house). When they get the parts their ordered, they go into a inspection area. Colt does their own QC before allowing the part(s) to make it out onto the assembly floor. If the part does not meet their standards, the part goes back to the manufacturer.
Another company also buys parts from the same company as Colt. Just one problem though, they do not QC the parts they get and in SOME instances, gets the Colt rejected parts.
So are the parts you get from one company the same quality as you get from another? No (as one does QC and the other one does not).
YHM buys BCG's from CMT. Great. They don't do HPT or MPI on them. So that means that they don't catch about 3%-5% of the failures that HPT and MPI discovers. The company that does HPT/MPI also (Typically) has jigs setup so that they can quickly QC the dimensions on each and every BCG. So you, the consumer are much less likely to receive a bad one.
C4
You are correct if you are a person that beleives in or seeks out that type of QC or if you beleive proof testing does not cause its own failures down the road, and you are willing to trust the QC is done correctly, then YES you would be correct.
This is why I don't trust any gun or parts till I have seen it perform, over a long peroid of time. I have seen HPT fail sooner than non HPT and I have seen the opposite. I have also seen 8620 bolts fail inside of 1000 rounds.
Complication
11-17-10, 16:13
You are correct if you are a person that beleives in or seeks out that type of QC or if you beleive proof testing does not cause its own failures down the road, and you are willing to trust the QC is done correctly, then YES you would be correct.
Good god, man, do you even listen to yourself?
"Airbags save lives if and only if you are one of those people who believes airbags saves lives and don't KILL YOU FASTER INSTEAD!"
Sorry, I'll be one of those blind sheeple that accepts without conducting my own industry-grade tests that:
My airbag will help protect me in a crash
and
Quality control measures don't break things more.
Did you need a trip into outer space to accept that the Earth isn't flat, too? Or was your 3rd grade science textbook filled with marketing lies, too?
Your right accept one thing I truly beleive proof rounds can weaken the part because the part is not all that well designed for a proof round to be fired in the first place especially if proof testing is not a spec used with consitancy.
I agree with testing and don't need to see it with my own two eyes to trust testing. I JUST DON'T TRUST proof testing a standard designed AR bolt. I have seen proof testing certs from different companies enough to not want to chance it blindly. Stress fractures start small too small to see or even test for sometimes. I don't drink this cool aid on a AR bolt other designs sure not a AR.
I also think NP3 is a better surface than shot peened, just a opinion it doesn't matter ether.
STILL IT DON"T MATTER its a opinion and there a holes every bodies got one.
Complication
11-17-10, 16:38
I have seen proof testing certs from different companies enough to not want to chance it blindly. Stress fractures start small too small to see or even test for sometimes. I don't drink this cool aid on a AR bolt other designs sure not a AR.
Care to explain?
Magic_Salad0892
11-17-10, 17:33
YHM buys from Stag = we call this a clue.
OP - YHM BCGs are not milspec.
Shell out the extra Jackson for a BCM BCG.
I'm going out on a limb and I'm going to say he is talking about BCM since I posted one of Paul's manufacturers is, or at least was, CMT. I say this because one of my BCM bolts is marked CM and MPT. I also know my BCM bolt was made to the TDP and who made it is irrelevant as long as it was made to the TDP.
BCM does not buy bolt's from CMT.
C4
The phrase "full of crap" is entering my mind right now. Seriously, stop posting in this thread. That's not a request.
You are correct if you are a person that beleives in or seeks out that type of QC or if you beleive proof testing does not cause its own failures down the road, and you are willing to trust the QC is done correctly, then YES you would be correct.
This is why I don't trust any gun or parts till I have seen it perform, over a long peroid of time. I have seen HPT fail sooner than non HPT and I have seen the opposite. I have also seen 8620 bolts fail inside of 1000 rounds.
Will do the truth is supressed along with opinions. But I would suggest not calling your sponsers product crap, as a mod thats not cool.
lethal dose
11-18-10, 07:52
Your smart mouth is going to get you into a lot of trouble around here.
Suppress the truth, my balls. Presupposes that you have truth to give and some intrinsic right to mouth off whatever you want. News flash: 1st Amendment protects you from the gov't.
This ain't the gov't.
You are not a prophet, "truth" is the perception of facts and not facts themselves (and which you've done a piss-poor job of presenting), and your "truth," based on what you've typed here, is merely you sitting of 6 different fences.
You got told to not post in this thread again. Instead of going with a "ooo, look at me, I'm defiantontheintternet" approach, your above message could have been sent via PM, making you able to follow instructions as directed while fulfilling your "must have last word" fetish.
Enjoy time away from us. Contemplate while upon the Tree of Woe.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7350/treeofwoe.jpg
BCM does not buy bolt's from CMT.
C4
OK, who else marks theirs with a CM?
Holy shit, you couldn't be more incorrect. I guess barrels, bolts, receivers, and bolt carriers is almost nothing huh? All those are made in house in Hartford.
Stag doesn't make Colt parts. :suicide:
u are corect my bad. cmt does
after all the b.s. it runs together
cmt makes colt parts and no colt does not make barrels or bcg
i do not know about al the parts too many to keep up with
tks
u are corect my bad. cmt does
after all the b.s. it runs together
cmt makes colt parts and no colt does not make barrels or bcg
i do not know about al the parts too many to keep up with
tks
Right, so all those barrel machines in their plant sit idle all day. Get a clue.
u are corect my bad. cmt does
after all the b.s. it runs together
cmt makes colt parts and no colt does not make barrels or bcg
i do not know about al the parts too many to keep up with
tks
Since you must have missed it the first time, here's a link with pictures in Colt Defense's plant. You will see a barrel machine making barrels. But I guess that's not real because you say they don't make barrels. :jester:
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/the-making-of-the-militarys-standard-arms/?tham=&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2
Here, I'll make it easy for you:
"Several steps occur at other companies. Colt has no foundry or injection-molding shop, for instance. It purchases the sleeves of steel from which it manufactures barrels, and it subcontracts for the aluminum casts that, after machining inside the plant, are ground and cut for many of the rifle’s parts.
Similarly, it buys its rifles’ hand-guards and stocks. The rifles’ phosphate protective coating, which gives the metal parts their non-corrosive black finish, is also outsourced.
But the main operating parts are all machined here, and final assembly occurs in one corner of the plant, where the rifles come together and then are subjected to inspections and firing tests, including by government inspectors who work full-time on-site."
But let me guess, you know better, right?
Come on guys knock it off. This is not helping the OP whatsoever. PM each other if you want to keep this up. This is not keeping with M4C professionalism.
-Jax
u are corect my bad. cmt does
after all the b.s. it runs together
cmt makes colt parts and no colt does not make barrels or bcg
i do not know about al the parts too many to keep up with
tks
Colt had a falling out with CMT some time ago and buys NOTHING from them any more (so I am told).
C4
OK, who else marks theirs with a CM?
Don't really know.
What I do know is that none of the BCM bolt's I have in stock say CM.
C4
Don't really know.
What I do know is that none of the BCM bolt's I have in stock say CM.
C4
This one I have was bought during the Obama scare early in 2009. Maybe Paul no longer uses them?
Stag Arms reply regarding their (Stag/YHM) bolts:
"Our bolts are made from carpenter 158. The bolt carriers are made from 8620 steel. The gas keys are staked into place. Our bolts are batch tested for HPT and MPI. If you would like one specifically tested it is an additional $5.00. If you have any further questions please contact us again.
David
Stag Arms
860-229-9994"
At least they have an option to get the specific bolt you intend to buy tested if you so desire/pay extra...
This one I have was bought during the Obama scare early in 2009. Maybe Paul no longer uses them?
I've got two CM-marked BCM completes I bought in mid-2009. I remember seeing an explanation posted by them on here or ar15.com about sourcing them from 'somewhere else' during the rush to meet demand or something. That was when they were selling for $159 and selling out the same day.
Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Seems to me everyone was trying to help in their own way, even if the signal-to-noise ratio got a little high at times.
Whytep38,
<snip>
It says something to me that a company would say this up front. Not dissing on Yankee Hill but there is absolutely no description of what their BCG has had done to it. That extra $17 is nice for piece of mind. I realize this doesn't answer your question but the lack of information might be a clue. Good luck man.
-Jax
Funny, I had the exact same thought. I went with an LMT BCG through LMT's website. However, to be fair, LMT's website was about as helpful as Yankee Hill's. I couldn't find any details there either. Logically, if I applied the same rationale to both websites, I would not have purchased from either one.
But I am aware of LMT's reputation and not aware of Yankee Hill's. Also, I wanted to get LMT's charging handle, so I bought both on faith and in the hopes of saving shipping costs by ordering once rather than twice.
Colt had a falling out with CMT some time ago and buys NOTHING from them any more (so I am told).
C4
oooops my bad. info is 2 yrs old
you know where it came from, i am sure.
dont keep up with the ins/outs like u do. just shoot them.
tks
Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Seems to me everyone was trying to help in their own way, even if the signal-to-noise ratio got a little high at times.
Funny, I had the exact same thought. I went with an LMT BCG through LMT's website. However, to be fair, LMT's website was about as helpful as Yankee Hill's. I couldn't find any details there either. Logically, if I applied the same rationale to both websites, I would not have purchased from either one.
But I am aware of LMT's reputation and not aware of Yankee Hill's. Also, I wanted to get LMT's charging handle, so I bought both on faith and in the hopes of saving shipping costs by ordering once rather than twice.
LMT *does* advertise their bolts (and barrels) as HP/MP. Maybe their new webstore doesn't say, but their 2010 catalog does.
LMT *does* advertise their bolts (and barrels) as HP/MP. Maybe their new webstore doesn't say, but their 2010 catalog does.
LMT Rocks but their web site is a little tough at times. I think they recently updated it. I've not seen their catalog. I know when a company takes the extra effort to inform the buyer I appreciate it. BCM and Grant do a good job. It helps to know what you're buying.
yhm makes the following
b/m
dpms
some r.r
olympic
Wrong. They manufacture in house.
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