Building my 1st Custom M4...need some advice and Help.

[scoutout86]

Hello, Im new to this Forum and to the custom building scene. I have been researching alot on this forum about the different companies and there products as far as to see how the quality of there products are and if they perform as they say.

Anyway im wanting to build my own custom M4 Carbine, im wanting a compact, light, and pratical rifle. if im correct i beleive fed law says the minimum rifle length is 16in. but is it possible to get an 14.5 barrel and adding a long enouph compensator to bring it to 16in. what is your advice on that. and what barrel do you reccomend?

As well as the upper reciever, i have been looking at the VLTOR MUR. from what i hear its a good upper. what do ya think and reccomend? aslo what bolt carrier and bolt do you recommend for the VLTOR MUR?

and for the Lower i was looking at geting either the sun devil or the LMT lower with the 2 stage trigger and sopmod stock. but not to sure on witch to go with. any suggestions or advice on wich i should go with?

Im currently in iraq right now, but want to order everything so that ill have it all together for when i get back. any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[rob_s]

I'm not trying to be a dick (although I have a bad habit of coming across that way :) ), but the answers to most of your questions are available on this site with a little reading.

One good resource is here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=4524) and another is here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6261).

If you have specific questions about specific gear, chances are there are people here who can provide you the information you're looking for. All you have to do is ask.

[ssmoore]

I would buy a complete lmt lower and upper seperate and snap them together with their bolt carrier and bolt. You save the 150 on the federal tax on complete guns and you have one of the best guns made. Or if you want something more dressed up look into the new noveske gun that has the rail and his new hammer forged barrel.

Your correct on the barrel, it has to be 16in overall not including the flash hider. You can include the flash hider in the length if its permanently attached by pining and welding it to the barrel. If you go with the 14.5 you will need a phantom fh and if you go 14.7 you can use the standard a2 fh. When you get a bolt no matter what brand just make sure its mp tested like the lmt, colt or the bcm.. Hope that helps.

steve

[scoutout86]

thanks ss, im probly am going to go with the lmt lower, and an vltor mur upper. still thinking about what barrel i want though. thanks alot for your help.

[scoutout86]

well ive been researching and reading alot, just like rob said. and ive been geting prices with G & R tactical ,and seeing if hes got what i want in stock. but from what i read from other threads G & R is tha man to deal with.

so far this is what ive decided on geting.

-VLTOR MUR w/FA and Shell Deflector.
-14.5 Noveske barrel
-POF GEN II lower
-LMT SOPMOD stock

still researching on the rest of the pieces of the the rifle. but any sugestions or advice would be helpfull.

[5POINT56]

Why not just go with a complete LMT Defender lower? You can buy the entire lower half (Defender lower, SOPMOD stock....and 2 stage trigger if you want) all in one package?

Nothing wrong with POF....just no need to go with as many different companies as your initial list suggests....unless you've got a reason for going that route? I'm guessing that you want an all billet upper and lower?

There's a lot more reason to go with a billet upper than there is with a billet lower, and the VLTOR MUR would work seamlessly with an LMT lower as well. Just curious as to your reasoning.

[scoutout86]

Why not just go with a complete LMT Defender lower? You can buy the entire lower half (Defender lower, SOPMOD stock....and 2 stage trigger if you want) all in one package?

Nothing wrong with POF....just no need to go with as many different companies as your initial list suggests....unless you've got a reason for going that route? I'm guessing that you want an all billet upper and lower?

There's a lot more reason to go with a billet upper than there is with a billet lower, and the VLTOR MUR would work seamlessly with an LMT lower as well. Just curious as to your reasoning.

ya i could go that route as well... but your right, id rather just stay all billet. aslo the other reason why is that i like the billet lower that POF has, and the integrated trigger gaurd, and i really like the HK safe/fire .etchings.

[5POINT56]

ya i could go that route as well... but your right, id rather just stay all billet. aslo the other reason why is that i like the billet lower that POF has, and the integrated trigger gaurd, and i really like the HK safe/fire .etchings.

Keep in mind your adding avoidable weight (probably not a whole lot though), for aesthetics purposes alone with a billet lower. If the POF is what you like, then get it...as function and reliability are not affected. I have the VLTOR MUR on one of my rifles, which does not have a billet lower and it fits like a glove, with no weird weight distribution issues what so ever. The photo is below.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/5POINT56/NewPix074.jpg

Sounds good..it'll be a nice rifle with the parts you mentioned. Obviously you're going the correct route on internals too? A quality LPK, BCG and trigger group?

[scoutout86]

Keep in mind your adding avoidable weight (probably not a whole lot though), for aesthetics purposes alone with a billet lower. If the POF is what you like, then get it...as function and reliability are not affected. I have the VLTOR MUR on one of my rifles, which does not have a billet lower and it fits like a glove, with no weird weight distribution issues what so ever. The photo is below.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/5POINT56/NewPix074.jpg

Sounds good..it'll be a nice rifle with the parts you mentioned. Obviously you're going the correct route on internals too? A quality LPK, BCG and trigger group?

nice rifle, what lower do you have for it? and barrel/flashhider, just curouis? on the LPK, BCG and trigger group, im still researching and looking on them. not to sure whats good or not. but will keep researching and looking around here on this forum for more info. but any suggestions would be helpfull. thanks again for the advice and your help.

[5POINT56]

The specs on the whole rifle above:

CMMG lower

CMMG M10 barrel (14.5")

Phantom hider (Brings the OAL to 16")

VLTOR MUR-1 upper

LMT Enhanced BCG

Magpul CTR, MAID & Winter trigger guard)

KNS Anti rotation pins

LMT 2 Stage trigger

Daniel Defense 9.0 Lite

Aimpoint ML3 & Magnifier

La Rue mounts

This rifle is the current favorite, I am really happy with it. The only addition will be the La Rue pivot mount for the magnifier. It hadn't been released when I needed a mount, but came out like a month later. Dems da breaks.

[scoutout86]

i have a question, whats the diffrence in a 2 stage trigger, and 1 stage trigger. whats better. does anyone know what type trigger the army issue m4 has? id think i would like to stick with what ever its equiped with, if possible.

also i was wanting to go with a JP tactical carreir, i looked at the thread that C4I grant posted about it. looks like a good product. just wanted to know if anyone has had any problems with them, i was also looking at the Young Mfg NM "Lightning" Chrome Bolt Carrier. does anyone have any experience with them. ive heard that going with a lighter carrier helps lower the recoil, what else would help lower the recoil? thanks in advance for the feedback.

[GunLovinTexan]

Ive broken Several 2 stages triggers and recommend staying away from them when possible.

I use Stag/LMT/Colt Single stage triggers which is CURRENT issue on the M4, however there is talk of them going to the Geissile Automatic trigger and they are the BEST 2 stage trigger BAR NONE, the only one I actually recommend.

Hopefully Grant will jump in and talk more about the Giessel Automatic Trigger.


Rob

[scoutout86]

Ive broken Several 2 stages triggers and recommend staying away from them when possible.

I use Stag/LMT/Colt Single stage triggers which is CURRENT issue on the M4, however there is talk of them going to the Geissile Automatic trigger and they are the BEST 2 stage trigger BAR NONE, the only one I actually recommend.

Hopefully Grant will jump in and talk more about the Giessel Automatic Trigger.


Rob

the geissile automatic trigger huh... ill look into it... thanks for the info, were in texas are you from, if you dont mind me asking.

[GunLovinTexan]

Allen Texas.

The giessel triggers have a price tag but they are worth it.


Rob

[AR15barrels]

i have a question, whats the diffrence in a 2 stage trigger, and 1 stage trigger. whats better. does anyone know what type trigger the army issue m4 has? id think i would like to stick with what ever its equiped with, if possible.

Single stage trigger is standard issue in M4's and M16's of all generations.
Only DMR's, SPR's and other specialty guns get a two stage.

Single stage triggers have a single heavy trigger pull with a decent amount of creep built-in to help reliability.

Two stage triggers will have two seperate "stages", first a medium weight creep (also for reliability) and then you will feel the trigger stop against the second "stage". The second stage will require a little bit more force until the trigger breaks.

Two stage triggers greatly improve longrange accuracy by giving the user the ability to know when the trigger will break.
It's much more difficult to shoot accurately with a heavy single stage trigger.

If you are mostly shooting close and fast, the difference in triggers will not matter.

I run a Jewel two stage trigger setup to about 1lb first stage and 4-6 ounce second stage.
This is a scary lightweight trigger and it suprises everyone the first time they try it.
I'm used to lightweight triggers and I absolutely love it.
Timney did me a 2 lb trigger by special request.
This will probably go in one of my next builds.

[scoutout86]

thanks for explaining that for me, im going to go with a 2 stage, just incase i want to take some long distance shots. and anything that helps with accuracy is got to be good. i looked at those geissele triggers. but a bit pricey, but from what i read there worth it. ill probly just go ahead and get one. since im still in iraq. and have till jan or feb till i get home. so i have all the time in the world to figure out what i want for sure, and to have the funds for it. but ill continue on with my researching. thanks alot for your help.

aslo a question for AR15, is a lightwait trigger better than a heavier one, as far as long range shooting, or even for close and fast firing. would you be able to shoot quiker and more concistant?

[AR15barrels]

is a lightwait trigger better than a heavier one, as far as long range shooting, or even for close and fast firing. would you be able to shoot quiker and more concistant?

The differences in trigger weight are more noticable the farther out and the slower you are shooting.

If you are proned out plinking at 300+ yds, the lighter trigger makes a HUGE difference.
If you are running past windows and spraying a few rounds into each as you pass by, you would not really notice a difference with a heavier or lighter trigger.

A lighter trigger is NO WORSE at close & fast work, but a heavier trigger is worse at slow-fire long range work.

[scoutout86]

The differences in trigger weight are more noticable the farther out and the slower you are shooting.

If you are proned out plinking at 300+ yds, the lighter trigger makes a HUGE difference.
If you are running past windows and spraying a few rounds into each as you pass by, you would not really notice a difference with a heavier or lighter trigger.

A lighter trigger is NO WORSE at close & fast work, but a heavier trigger is worse at slow-fire long range work.

si, so i guess you would be better off just going with a lighter trigger, just incase you need/want to shoot 300+ yds. you can do so more affectivly. and can still be afective when doing close and fast firing...what light trigger do you recomend. you said you have used the jewel 2 stage, huh. has that been a good trigger for you, any problems or anything, and what about the timney, whats the details on those. thanks again for your help bro. i really do aprecaite it.

[AR15barrels]

si, so i guess you would be better off just going with a lighter trigger, just incase you need/want to shoot 300+ yds. you can do so more affectivly. and can still be afective when doing close and fast firing...what light trigger do you recomend. you said you have used the jewel 2 stage, huh. has that been a good trigger for you, any problems or anything, and what about the timney, whats the details on those. thanks again for your help bro. i really do aprecaite it.

The Gieselle gets rave reviews and is as good as they get.
The KAC's also are supposed to be great.
I have not had the pleasure to own either of these.
The Jewel's are said to be unreliable by many people and they require gunsmith installation.
I had mine double on me just recently, but otherwise it's been perfect for 4+ years of use.
I believe it was the blown primer bits I cleaned out of the lower that caused that malfunction so I don't discredit the Jewel.
The jewel is VERY adjustable, but adjustment points are also failure points.
LMT / Armalite two stage triggers (same) are good to go.
JP's single stage also get rave reviews, but need gunsmith installation.
Rock River's seem to be good, but there are more reports of trouble with these.
This probably has to do with how many there are out there in use and how little use some people give them vs. how much use the bullet hose people give them.
Adco re-works RRA's 2 stage for improved reliability.
WOA re-works RRA's 2 stage for improved smoothness and weight of pull.

Then you have the unitized triggers.
These are complete trigger and hammer "modules" that just drop into a lower.
Chip McCormick was the first to offer these.
JP and Timney followed suit.
Chip McCormick offers them in single or two stage.
Timney and JP are single stage.

[scoutout86]

well i orderd the POF GEN2 from Grant and is on its way, thanks alot for the fast comunication, and great costumer service...

im looking into the "guts" for the lower now, im going to get the geissele DMR trigger soon, but i was wondering on whats a good high quality LPK, as i dont want to fill the lower with junk.

thanks alot for the help and advice.

[Paulinski]

I run stock single stage triggers on my fighting AR's.

The SPR got a Geissele Match trigger - the best trigger I have yet to see.

My $0.02