View Full Version : Stalking
Canonshooter
11-17-10, 19:05
As of this evening, we suspect that our 22 year old daughter is being stalked by some creep. I am looking for some advice, especially from any of LEOs.
She just became a registered nurse and is working at a local medical center. Yesterday, a new patient came in, a 47 year old male. While our daughter was doing her job, this person began asking for her last name, where she lives, is she married, etc. Of course, she did not divulge any of that info.
This afternoon, the receptionist tells her that the local Edible Arrangments had called - someone had a package for our daughter but could not make out the last name because the shipping label was smeared. In a major gaffe, the receptionist gave out her last name. No package ever arrived and a call to the local franchise revealed that no one from there had called nor did they have a package for our daughter.
Our daughter then discovers this evening that someone has logged onto her Facebook account and left the message "found you." We can only assume it is the same creep.
Obviously out daughter is upset and my wife and I are concerned. My feeling is that we contact the local PD and file a complaint under the assumption that it is the same person who came in as a new patient yesterday asking all the questions and who called posing as an employee of Edible Arrangements.
If there is anything else that is recommended (within the confines of the law), it would be appeciated.
arizonaranchman
11-17-10, 19:13
We're in different states, but laws are probably similar in most regards here.
She should keep a journal/log of all these events. Date, time, etc of what's happened. She will use this info eventually when/if it becomes necessary to file a restraining order or police reports ref stalking, etc.
So far it's a bit premature to say the two are related unless you can prove it. Now I do personally believe they are related, but I didnt see any proof cited other than coincidence. The coincidence is a bit much especially since they happened so closely in time, so in my gut I say it's related, but as far as the law proof is lacking here at this point.
The good part here is that hospital records should have plenty of info on this character should she need to take further action.
At this point, keep track of all these events, be cautious and alert in light of what's occurred and notify the police if it continues.
pilotguyo540
11-17-10, 19:13
Law be damned! I am no LEO, but if it was my little girl, this creep would fall off the face of the earth fast.
http://www.womenslaw.org/index.php
Give that site a read, hopefully it helps. Make sure you document everything and contact LE. In a perfect world you could approach this stalker and beat the living bejesus out of him. But unfortunately we don't and doing so leaves you open for civil and criminal repercussions. I wish you the best and hope everything turns out okay.
Canonshooter
11-17-10, 19:34
Many thanks for the advice.
I just told my daughter to start a log and record everything. At least for the next few days I will follow her to work and see her into the building (telling her to not acknowledge me as she goes in), and do the same when she leaves at the end of the day. She's given me a good description so I should be able to recognize this person if he appears.
The good news is we have the full contact info of this person. Hopefully the Facebook entry (account now closed) is the last of it.
VooDoo6Actual
11-17-10, 19:40
In addition the good advice given, if she can use her camera on her phone (if she has one most do these days) to additonally document the events/incidents w/ geo-tagging (if available & date /time stamp) most do these days.
Being able to document is crucial here.
Deal with it all the time w/ clients.
Then go get the RO. (Restraining Order)
HTH...
Gutshot John
11-17-10, 19:46
If your daughter has an iPhone check out the "WiseDame" app. It should be available soon.
I'm not a LEO.
Contact LE.
If that doesn't get the job done (he shows himself again or there's another incident of any kind)... I'd arrange a "meeting". Not to bluster but this is one of "those" cases. :mad:
In the meantime I'd arm and prepare my daughter as best as is practical (assuming that wasn't already a lifelong endeavor). Spray and/or taser at a minimum. If at all possible I'd be escorting her to/from work and anywhere else needed (or making sure somone else was).
Sorry, but I have little faith in the ability of LE, ROs, etc in cases like this. Those are things to CYA and in the hope they might do some good.
Unfortunately there are cases where nothing can be done by law. Leos have to work within the law, but it doesn't hurt getting them involved. I'm a reserve Officer and from my experience once stalkers are informed by the Police to back off they follow suit but again that is just my experience.
On a lighter note you could always hire Hop :D
As a LEO this is what I usually tell people who have possible stalkers.
1) Get a restraining order. The problem with stalkers is that following someone around, in of itself, isnt really illegal. The restraining order puts a way to arrest this douche bag.
2) Get a gun. Another problem with stalkers is by the time they really actually do break the law its something bad.
3) Document everything.
4) Let her work know. Security should be aware of the situation and they can walk her out to her car. Most of the hospitals in Phx hire officers as security as well.
Canonshooter
11-17-10, 20:32
Our sincere thanks to all who have replied.
Tomorrow our daughter has a meeting scheduled with the facility security personnel. We will also be contacting the local PD to at least get on record of the incident.
Our daughter's supervisor has been informed of the incident, including the full contact info of the suspected stalker (the new patient).
I'm going to "shadow" her to and from work in my own car for the time being. I'll have a camera with me too, to record any possible encounters.
We have always been a security-minded family. I'm supplying her with some fresh reading on self efense, situational awareness, etc. including these which I've been reading myself -
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39145
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39237
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39327
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39507
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39642
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39784
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39983
She has asked about Mace, but I'm thinking a good stun gun may be better. Any advice on that would be appreciated too.
Thanks again to all for your help!
I would do some counter surveillance as well to offer additional evidence to bring into court, etc.
Push for the permanent protective order and as with all protective orders are given full faith and credit across state lines.
Of course, personal protection is a must--
And a good review of security concerns at work!
Complication
11-17-10, 20:39
One advantage of contacting the LEOs (in ADDITION to documentation) is that they have it on record right now.
If you wait until it gets more serious you are potentially vulnerable to the guy claiming "Oh, yeah, we were dating for a few weeks, then she went all crazy and called you guys, no it's nothing serious, no you don't need a restraining order against me, nah, it's all one big misunderstanding."
Her documentation will help but what will help even more is if the police can flip open their notebooks and go "hey, this creep has a history of harassing her."
Also if you wait to call it in and the cop who shows up just had his girlfriend go insane and destroy all his shit and he looks at your daughter skeptically and says, "Why didn't you call this in before?"
"Oh, I didn't think it had gotten this serious yet."
"Well, then what makes you think it's serious now? Maybe this is all for attention or maybe you're just a vindictive ex-girlfriend or something."
As stated above, contacting the LEOs now might not result in any immediate action on their parts but it could be a HUGE help in the future.
Complication
11-17-10, 20:41
Also, the sooner the PD confronts him, the sooner he can decide that maybe your daughter isn't worth harassing. When you can't be 100% secure, you might as well present a hard target to deter potential harassers.
Some 25 years ago...just after the wife and I got married we spotted someone peeping in our windows one night...but didn't get a good look at the individual. This happened a couple more times over the next few weeks and when we reported this to the Springfield Police Department, they stated they couldn't do anything unless they caught the guy in the middle of the act. (Different story with Stalking Laws in Place now.)
I decided to take matters into my own hands and strung 30 lb monofilament Fishing Line with various size treble hooks in the bushes around our Bedroom window as well as our 1 1/2 year old daughters at approx Groin height.
A few nights went by with nothing happening until one evening as the wife was getting ready for bed she called me into the bedroom and told me she had heard a groan from outside. I grabbed my flashlight and the Colt Diamondback I kept in the dresser beside the bed and went outside only to find my elderly Land Lord who lived a few doors down struggling in the bushes trying to free himself from my land line.
I quickly retrieved my Polaroid Camera (Still a Popular device at this time.) took a picture as Leonard (my land lord) stood there begging me to let him loose. Instead I sent my wife inside the house to call the Law.
He managed to free himself before PD arrived but due to the picture I had taken and evidence they found at the scene (i.e. A rather large piece of Pajama material.) He was apprehended the next day and charged.
Remember what everyone else here is telling you...Document, Document, Document....and be diligent in your counter surveillence.
Contact LEO now and "every" single time there is an event. It does make a difference when the LEOs and the judge see that there were numerous reports. Do not just keep a journal of several events waiting to tie them together and then deliver the info in bulk... make a report for "each" event. When the LEO & court sees you are doing "everything" you can do and working to the best of your ability within the system they will take you more seriously and be more helpful.
This country has gotten really weird.
I would also let work know whats up ? so if the guy comes in again not to let her be around etc..
I would think the hospital could do some things on their end
Canonshooter
11-18-10, 04:54
I would also let work know whats up ? so if the guy comes in again not to let her be around etc..
Her supervisor is already involved, as will be facility security today. Additionally, a report will be filed with the local PD. I have told my daughter to request a LEO to stop by her place of work so that the receptionist can also give a statement.
To me, the most disturbing aspect of this is what this guy did to get her last name. My gut tells me this is not something to take lightly - and we certainly are not.
woodandsteel
11-18-10, 08:51
Those are some great articles you posted. It sounds like you are on the right track.
In addition to the articles that you posted, may I also recommend reading Gavin de Becker's book; The Gift of Fear. It is a very good book that my daughters will be reading when they get older.
Our daughter then discovers this evening that someone has logged onto her Facebook account and left the message "found you." We can only assume it is the same creep.
I know this might sound weird but.... was it a wall post or a message?
Why do I ask? Because she needs to be smart online as well.
If it was a wall post, she either has her security settings at their loosest or she "friended" the dirtbag.
If it was a message, then anyone can send them to anyone else.
Those are some great articles you posted. It sounds like you are on the right track.
In addition to the articles that you posted, may I also recommend reading Gavin de Becker's book; The Gift of Fear. It is a very good book that my daughters will be reading when they get older.
A decent book, but its a shame that de Becker doesn't believe us "regular folk" should be allowed to own firearms for self-defense.
woodandsteel
11-18-10, 11:13
A decent book, but its a shame that de Becker doesn't believe us "regular folk" should be allowed to own firearms for self-defense.
Yeah, I agree with you there.
I've got a bit of a background in the functional side of these things. If you need details, PM me. Otherwise, here are my suggestions:
First things first, social networking sites are a HUGE liability. Have her delete her account immediately. So much information can be gotten within minutes from not only her wall posts/profile, but from her friends as well (by cross-checking posts, dates, etc). Delete it. ASAP.
If she absolutely has to have a Facebook account, set up a new account. Have her set ALL of her settings to "Friends Only" and have her set her profile to be unsearchable. Advise her not to accept friend requests from anyone she wouldn't trust her life to.
Secondly, get her a pen-type audio/video camera. You can get them for around $200 or so. Have her keep it on her. If she feels like she's being followed, or comes into contact with said individual, she can use it to record proof undetected.
Third, get her a small GPS unit - something like this (http://www.amazon.com/Fanatic-Digital%C2%AE-Personal-Tracker-internet/dp/B002ODQ3W0/ref=acc_glance_e_ai_purchase_similarities_t_7) - and have her attach it to her undergarment (brastraps are ideal). God forbid, but should anything happen, you can look up her location within seconds. Don't tell anyone about this and instruct her to do the same. If people know, it can be used by the stalker against her.
Fourth, continually check her car for GPS and/or tracking devices. Sounds extreme, but they're affordable and easy to attach to one's car. You don't want her being tracked.
Fifth, do counter-surveillance. Follow her to work a few times - don't tell her you're doing this - and watch her car and her workplace. Take a video recorder for evidence should you encounter anything. Keep a log book and record all dates and times that she (or you) sees this guy. Get license tag numbers.
Now, whatever you do, do NOT confront this guy directly. Play it cool and do what he's doing. Survey HIM. Find out what you can about him. Don't blow it by tipping him off before you have enough to prosecute him with. It's easy to get emotional - don't do it.
Last but not least, contact the police and keep them informed. Once you have enough proof, get a restraining order issued. Keep counter-surveying and if/when he breaks the order, you've got him.
I'd also take her shooting with you. If she can get a CCW, have her apply and get her a handgun. She may not be able to carry at work, but it's still another step in being aware and being self-sufficient.
Canonshooter
11-18-10, 12:45
Thanks again to all for your input!
I followed her to work this morning, just as if I was a patient pulling in. I sat in my car, across the parking lot from where she parked. I was looking for anyone sitting in a car or anyone who left shortly after she went in. I waited for about half an hour after she went in - and called to confirm she was in - and I did not see anything suspicous. I will be doing the same this evening when she leaves, staying back to see if she gets followed.
We're hoping this was just some jerk who has moved on to other things. Time will tell, and I will keep all that has been posted here squarely in-mind.
I don't have anything to add regarding the "real world" approaches, as everything already posted seems to offer plenty of information.
I do want to add something about the "virtual world". I had a problem with harassment a few years back from a crazy Ex-girlfriend, that even resulted in her following me across the country at one point. I finally managed to go off her grid for four years. Then facebook and myspace came around, and people she was friends with started contacting me out of the blue about what I was up to, where I was, ext...
This resulted in me learning a lot about trying to protect my information online. My career is very much dependent on me having an online presence and it is impossible to completely erase my existence from the internet, but there are things that you really need to take into consideration right now regarding both your daughters, and your protection.
1. She should delete her facebook and start over, with a new email address and a completely new name. For example say her name is Betty Last Name. Have her new facebook just be something like Bet (firstname) Ty lastname. This, combined with a complete whipping of her past account, and a new email address, if combined with Facebook's maximum security settings will make her very difficult to find on that page.
2. This guy has your last name which means he could have information about where you live, where she lives ext. Visit "people finder" sites (online yellowpages) to find out how much information about you and your family is actually published online. It was pretty scary to find my parents last four houses, with phone numbers, and addresses listed on one of these sites. One even had number of kids, with our names, listed below it. And this is what I found without paying for the services of the website.
3. Have her think about past sites she may have gone to before facebook was popular. Myspace, Classmates.com, Friendster, ext. Have her contact the admins of everyone of these sites and have her profile deleted. The internet doesn't have a reset button, and it has a very very long memory.
4. Google her name, and your name to find out how often information about you guys comes up in a common search, document any sites that have information on her, and determine if you are O.K. with this information being within the public domain. For example, maybe she one a spelling be when she was 4 years old. That may be online. I was really shocked to find that there were things about me on a University server that I did not want to be public knowledge at all. When I contacted the University they weren't even aware that the information in question was hosted on their server, and they promptly removed it, but a quick google search turned it up on my end.
5. If you want to go even further go to a site called "reputationdefender.com" They seem to specialize in getting your information taken out of advertising, and special interest databases.
The reality of the internet today is that under the Bush Administration companies were allowed to start data mining information about individuals for the purpose of collecting info in the event of a possible terrorist plot. What really happened though is that companies began selling this information to advertising firms, and also started purchasing information from companies that kept consumer practices on file. For example, every time you use your discount card at a supermarket your purchasing history is recorded. This information is then batched together with other shoppers info from the same supermarket chain, and then sold to data mining companies. These companies then resell it to advertising firms for target you directly and indirectly with catered advertisements. There is absolutely nothing protecting this information from getting into the hands of a malicious third party who's determined enough to do so. Reputation Defender advertises that they take you out of this system, but I have yet to use it myself, I am however considering it.
I'm not trying to make you paranoid but an intelligent person with a clear understanding of the "virtual" world can make his/her knowledge have very "real" world consequences for people he/she may have a grudge against. The two incidents you described to us in this thread (using a messed up package from an online retailer, and facebook contact) indicate to me that this person is very capable of manipulating and understanding the systems of digital communication and contemporary information gathering.
Her supervisor is already involved, as will be facility security today. Additionally, a report will be filed with the local PD. I have told my daughter to request a LEO to stop by her place of work so that the receptionist can also give a statement.
To me, the most disturbing aspect of this is what this guy did to get her last name. My gut tells me this is not something to take lightly - and we certainly are not.
man dude a prayer said for you and family cause this is honestly something as I watch my 6 year old girl growing up thinking I never have to face this !!!
just saying me like others are standing buy ya ;) cause this is wrong and your gut I am sure is correct follow it of course like you are :)
best of luck keep us updated of course :)
Hopefully your daughter doesn't have this situation. http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/11/sam_salazar_stalks_ex-girlfrie.php
jklaughrey
11-18-10, 21:30
From what I have read everything sounds correct and the way to go about things legally. As an officer the only thing I can add is be vigilant and tell your daughter to increase her situational awareness. Change routine, be spontaneous. If she has some vacation time coming, have her leave the area, and see if he follows. That way when you shadow her there is absolutely no way he can deny he followed her with his sole purpose being to harass, rather than being at her work or the mall etc. as coincidence.
Before LE, my little sister had a stalker/ex. Let's just say he never came around after face hitting asphalt approach occurred. Either way good luck and God bless you in your situation sir.
Magic_Salad0892
11-18-10, 21:35
^
No offence, man. But don't worry him any more than you have to.
That guy had way too much free time, by the way.
Mo_Zam_Beek
11-18-10, 23:45
Skyyr / Mac 5.56 - nice posts.
Good luck
Canonshooter
11-19-10, 04:59
Update
The joys of fatherhood often and unfortunately include this kind of stuff. I'm feeling no better than yesterday.
Our daughter had the meeting yesterday with security. In this case, the facility she works in is part of a much larger complex that includes a hospital. In this hospital are several floors that are dedicated to those fine individuals doing time in the state pen, so these "security officers" are at least a step above the rent-a-cop seen at the local movie theater. I need to find out if they have peace officer status.
The security dept. made a call to the patient, informing him that what he did - asking personal questions during his visit - was illegal under NH law. Apparently, he was very apologetic - but that doesn't mean squat to me.
On top of this, there is the patient confidentiality issue, so all I have at this point is a first and last name. I have zero desire to confront this person (which IMO would be a HUGE mistake), but I think I'd feel a whole bunch better knowing if this is just some jerk with a wife and kids who likes hitting on younger women, or if this guy is a more dangerous sociopath.
I do not know if a report was filed with the local (major city) PD. I don't know if the report filed with this "security dept." would serve the same purpose if the stalking continues and a restraining order must be pursued.
I don't want to push this if it's over, but I don't know if it is or it is not. Right now as I write this, I'm thinking of going to the facility security dept. and having a conversation with them, asking them if they have done a background check on this person and if they have shared the report with the local PD.
Based on what happened yesterday, this guy is either (1) just a jerk and has been dissauded from doing anything further or (2) God forbid he is a true sociopath and the flames have now been fanned. I really need to get a better handle on which one it is.
Of course, at the same time we are addressing all of the "improved personal security" issues, which is another major undertaking in itself. But right now, I need to know more about the current threat to figure out where we stand with that...
I'll keep this thead updated. Your responses and PMs are all very truly appreciated.
arizonaranchman
11-19-10, 08:07
I'd say at this point you've covered all the bases. A report to the security unit will only be notifying them of what's happening in their area of responsibility. The police don't have any or very little communication with this security unit is my guess. A report to the local agency of jurisdiction is the only thing that counts as far as "officially documenting" this sort of thing.
As aggravating as it seems to be you're just gonna have to wait and watch now to see if anything else happens. This isn't an instinctive way to handle things I know, but assuming you don't want to do a Charles Bronson you're gonna have to just sit and see if any further problems follow. If more problems persist then you know you've got a genuine problem vs one that so far is more in a "what-if" status.
Don't worry about getting his info, if the police need to get it they'll get it as far as an investigataion or you getting a restraining order, etc.
Be alert, keep records and document any incidents either with the police or in her notebook ref this.
If he never says another word to her and nothing else happens then you're good to go. Odds are he's just a bit wierd and didn't mean any real harm. But playing it safe as you are is best in case it's more than that. Now it's time to watch and wait.
Canonshooter
11-19-10, 10:07
More Info
Finally I'm feeling better....
I found out this morning the following;
1. The head of security is a retired PO from the local PD (big NH city)
2. He ran a background check on the person
3. He filed a report with the PD
4. Our daughter has his direct access number in the event anything further happens
5. Any further problems the head of security will file for a restraining order
For now, we're simply staying vigilant. The threat remains on our radar screen but now we'll just wait and see.
The other part of this of course is what we do to protect from future threats. That will be more involved and time-consuming, but there is now a compelling reason to do so - or perhaps I should say an increased willingness on our daughter's part to take greater responsibilty for her own safety. I plan on taking advantage of this and making it the silver lining of the emotionally draining past few days.
Thanks again to all for your advice and support.
Glad to hear everything is okay. Be safe :cool:
tracker722
11-19-10, 17:57
**************************
RogerinTPA
11-19-10, 20:26
Delete or lock facebook account. Do not log on using her phone or facebook will display her phone number on her contact info page. Have her check her account and disable this feature. If her number is on there, and her security settings aren't set high, then the scumbag has it. Tell her to get a new phone number and change email address. She can always create a page using a nickname.
CarlosDJackal
11-19-10, 22:21
Many thanks for the advice.
I just told my daughter to start a log and record everything. At least for the next few days I will follow her to work and see her into the building (telling her to not acknowledge me as she goes in), and do the same when she leaves at the end of the day. She's given me a good description so I should be able to recognize this person if he appears.
The good news is we have the full contact info of this person. Hopefully the Facebook entry (account now closed) is the last of it.
In most cases, one of the requirements for a case of stalking is that the stalker receive a positive indication that his or her advances are not welcome. In other words your daughter's would-be stalker must be made aware that his advances or attempts to make contact is unwanted and unwelcome and that proof of this muct be documented.
If it were me I would contact the LE Agency for the jurisdiction in which this is occuring. They can probably provide much more relevant information on what can or should be done by the victim at this point. She may have to file a restraining order against her stalker. I also agree that she should go ahead and delete or lock her facebook account. Maybe she can contact facebook to see if they can freeze and archive the stalker's account for later use.
Good luck!!
Does you daughter carry a pistol and does she know how to use it ?
As of this evening, we suspect that our 22 year old daughter is being stalked by some creep. I am looking for some advice, especially from any of LEOs.
She just became a registered nurse and is working at a local medical center. Yesterday, a new patient came in, a 47 year old male. While our daughter was doing her job, this person began asking for her last name, where she lives, is she married, etc. Of course, she did not divulge any of that info.
This afternoon, the receptionist tells her that the local Edible Arrangments had called - someone had a package for our daughter but could not make out the last name because the shipping label was smeared. In a major gaffe, the receptionist gave out her last name. No package ever arrived and a call to the local franchise revealed that no one from there had called nor did they have a package for our daughter.
Our daughter then discovers this evening that someone has logged onto her Facebook account and left the message "found you." We can only assume it is the same creep.
Obviously out daughter is upset and my wife and I are concerned. My feeling is that we contact the local PD and file a complaint under the assumption that it is the same person who came in as a new patient yesterday asking all the questions and who called posing as an employee of Edible Arrangements.
If there is anything else that is recommended (within the confines of the law), it would be appeciated.
I would contact the local police and get a case number. I would also contact Face Book and ask them to assist. They may only deal with the police but they should be involved. Have your daughter get over to Sig and take a class or two. I know they have some geared towards beginer female shooters. Owning and knowing how to use a firearm is empowering. What is the saying, God created man and Sam Colt made them equal. Pepperspray on a kubaton key chain would be a plus too. Massad Ayoob used to teach a kubaton class worth a look too. I think he is still in NH.
Notify the Hospital of the situation too. Good luck Dad! Mine are still little, 3, 5 & 8.
Those are some great articles you posted. It sounds like you are on the right track.
In addition to the articles that you posted, may I also recommend reading Gavin de Becker's book; The Gift of Fear. It is a very good book that my daughters will be reading when they get older.
+1! Read the Gift if Fear.
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