View Full Version : Keep buying those Chinese made goods...
Belmont31R
11-19-10, 10:10
Do yourself a favor, and look at what they are preparing for. Click on the slideshow (left side), and check out number 4: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703374304575622350604500556.html#project%3DSLIDESHOW08%26s%3DSB10001424052748704104104575621820678652434%26articleTabs%3Darticle
Meanwhile we are stalling out when it comes to procuring new equipment, and replacing old worn out stuff. Especially after 7-8 years of a high op tempo in the ME. We have 2 trillion for stimulus and health care but can't even get 200 F22's.
I think this time we are going to be the ones holding the short stick due to our entitlement spending taking up 100% of revenues, and we cannot afford to keep the edge forever at the rate we are going with domestic spending. The Chinese economy is growing 10% a year, and we are saddled with almost 14 trillion in debt.
Business_Casual
11-19-10, 14:23
I used to be a gung ho globalist, because I am a capitalist pig; but I have even been checking labels lately and I'll pay a bit more for non-China goods.
B_C
Rmplstlskn
11-19-10, 14:55
No, no, no... The Chinese loves us, they need us, want to support us.:big_boss:
Backwards engineering is working well for them!
Rmpl
I get very tired of dumbasses ignoring the overwhelming evidence and instead believing that because China owns most of our debt that it would not be in its best interest to see the US defeated and out of the picture.
Belmont31R
11-19-10, 21:46
I get very tired of dumbasses ignoring the overwhelming evidence and instead believing that because China owns most of our debt that it would not be in its best interest to see the US defeated and out of the picture.
You have to ask if the few trillion in debt they own is worth more to them than control of east Asia, and a big player in the world. At the rate they are scooping up raw materials, the rate their economy is growing, and the rate they are building military assets they have to be doing it for a reason.
At the same time we are being forced to cut those things both because of politics and financial reasons. Now would be a good time to get our ducks in a row to make sure we are number 1 20, 40, 60 years from now.
And Im not totally against international trade. Im just against such trade with a country like China. If it was any other country we would not being doing business with them the way we are.
but I have even been checking labels lately and I'll pay a bit more for non-China goods.
B_C
I am finding it near impossible. We recently bought three rooms worth of furniture for a new house, and I was explicitely looking for US-made. Found a place, was proudly told "made in North Carolina", spent a ton, found that it was more like "proudly upholstered in North Carolina". Delivery people said sales people ask them to remove "made in" tags.
But, bad business practices aside, it now takes effort and time to find US-made goods.
Belmont31R
11-19-10, 23:50
I am finding it near impossible. We recently bought three rooms worth of furniture for a new house, and I was explicitely looking for US-made. Found a place, was proudly told "made in North Carolina", spent a ton, found that it was more like "proudly upholstered in North Carolina". Delivery people said sales people ask them to remove "made in" tags.
But, bad business practices aside, it now takes effort and time to find US-made goods.
Find a business local to you that makes furniture. They are out there. Our dining room table was a gift from my dad but its made with Texas mesquite wood by one guy here with his own shop. You wont find a more durable table and quality. Im talking about a 4" thick solid top, and the whole thing is several hundred pounds. Pricey but will last hundreds of years with proper care.
On the contrary my wife got our twins toddler beds a couple years ago, and they fell apart within the months despite costing 200 a pop. Made in China with cheap compressed wood shit, shitty hardware, and I had to do numerous home fixes to keep them working. We got them new "kid" beds, made in the US, and again we paid the price but they will last at least until they are teenagers despite all the abuse they get.
But you wont get quality furniture in a box store. At least out here there a road side furniture shops "one of" that sell locally made stuff.
Furniture can last...we have an oak hutch made in the 1800's in our house we got from my parents, worth thousand now, but it still works just fine. The keys still work, ect. You'll never get that durability buying chinese. Id rather pay a couple thousand something my great great grand kids can use than spend hundreds, and get something that goes to shit in less than a year.
Even our dresser we use now my parents bought me when I still lived at home. Back then it was 1500 but has cedar lined drawers, dovetail fittings, quality hardware, ect. Well taken care of we'll still be using it as seniors.
My wife has had to learn the hard way buying cheap shit. She got a book case at Target for her medical books (going through nursing school), and not even 2 weeks old it fell apart maybe half loaded with books. Just collapsed into a big heap. More compressed wood sawdust shit.
jklaughrey
11-19-10, 23:59
book case at Target for her) medical books (going through nursing school
C'mon now though, Mosby's, Tabers', A&P and Micro/Path are quite heavy sir. That Target crap only works for a humanities class load.
Belmont31R
11-20-10, 00:13
C'mon now though, Mosby's, Tabers', A&P and Micro/Path are quite heavy sir. That Target crap only works for a humanities class load.
Yeah the fun part with that is they seem to come out with a new addition every semester. She has 3-4 books that are 99% identical but cannot be used in class because the newest is the the 11th edition and she has the 10th addition we paid 200 bucks for 4 months ago.
Then because its not the newest edition the school wont buy it back.
I am finding it near impossible. We recently bought three rooms worth of furniture for a new house, and I was explicitely looking for US-made. Found a place, was proudly told "made in North Carolina", spent a ton, found that it was more like "proudly upholstered in North Carolina". Delivery people said sales people ask them to remove "made in" tags.
But, bad business practices aside, it now takes effort and time to find US-made goods.
Having concluded that not only is most stuff made in China, most of it is horrible quality crap no matter how much you are willing to pay I have started to build my own stuff whenever I can.
It gets made exactly according to my needs, usually ends up being about the same price and much higher quality. I'm slowly getting rid of all my "pressed board" shelves and similar crap.
variablebinary
11-20-10, 01:24
Globalism is not good for America.
The elite, and wannabe elite keep trying to sell that shit to the American people.
We are getting screwed, and the Chinese are becoming our masters, and Mexicans overrun our borders.
No, it's not the same as the 80's and Japan either.
When is enough enough? When are the American people going to get a clue?
H.G. Wells wrote a book about a time machine a bunch of years ago. There was a section that talked about Eloi and Morlocks. Ironic. . . ..
It is such small consolation looking at ourselves and realizing we are the people that become the Eloi. . . .
EzGoingKev
11-20-10, 07:00
At the rate they are scooping up raw materials, the rate their economy is growing, and the rate they are building military assets they have to be doing it for a reason
Regarding the scooping up raw materials - I believe that is due to them manufacturing at least 75% of the stuff sold in this country (or the world for that matter). Their economic growth is a result of that.
But, bad business practices aside, it now takes effort and time to find US-made goods.
It is really hard to know what is a true US made item any more.
I was talking to my old Snap On Tools dealer the other day and while he would not get into the details he told me that I would not believe what they have subbed out to China.
When is enough enough? When are the American people going to get a clue?
Never.
People want to pop in to Walmart to get cheap stuff. When their cars brake they want cheap replacement costs.
Unions have killed off the manufacturing in this country and sell themselves off to the highest bidder.
"We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just put our hand in the next guys pocket." from HBO's The Wire pretty much sums it all up.
I try buying zero non western foreign products, but dammit nobody sells American garlic. It's all Chinese...:(
It is really hard to know what is a true US made item any more.
I was talking to my old Snap On Tools dealer the other day and while he would not get into the details he told me that I would not believe what they have subbed out to China.
.
I'd be willing to bet even a good chunk of their engineering is done in China now, I know a lot of companies use the Chinese for prototyping now.
Anyone looking for U.S. made goods can start here, the list is dated, but it's somewhere to start www.usstuff.com awhile back I wanted a new multi tool, almost bought a Leatherman, But they're NOT made in the U.S. Files from Switzerland, knife blades, etc, from China, In the past Leatherman was fined for advertising his tools as "made in the U.S.' when they are only assembled here. Anyway I ended up buying a SOG, Right on the package is said "made in the U.S.A." Doing some research on the 'net, before I bought it, I found that in the case of the Multi tool I was looking at, it was indeed made here, I bought it. Without a doubt it is VERY hard to find U.S. made goods, they're out there,One just has to put forth the effort, something most people won't do, because it's easier to go to Wal-Mart, or Lowe's..
The_War_Wagon
11-20-10, 08:55
I get very tired of dumbasses ignoring the overwhelming evidence and instead believing that because China owns most of our debt that it would not be in its best interest to see the US defeated and out of the picture.
This. :(
Here's another fun read for your Saturday morning - the Chinese will get stuck with SOME of our tab and have to eat it, but they've been diversifying into base & precious metals, rare earth minerals, and other hard assets the last several years; they have planned to survive this GREATEST Depression.
WE on the other hand, are going to eat ALL of our own tab. :mad:
http://www.kitco.com/ind/wieg_cor/wieg_cor.html
Belmont31R
11-20-10, 10:44
I'd be willing to bet even a good chunk of their engineering is done in China now, I know a lot of companies use the Chinese for prototyping now.
The notion they just make cheap shit we don't want to make here is no longer the case. More and more high end equipment and parts are being made there. Boeing parts, intellectual work like engineering, ect.
Anyone looking for U.S. made goods can start here, the list is dated, but it's somewhere to start www.usstuff.com awhile back I wanted a new multi tool, almost bought a Leatherman, But they're NOT made in the U.S. Files from Switzerland, knife blades, etc, from China, In the past Leatherman was fined for advertising his tools as "made in the U.S.' when they are only assembled here. Anyway I ended up buying a SOG, Right on the package is said "made in the U.S.A." Doing some research on the 'net, before I bought it, I found that in the case of the Multi tool I was looking at, it was indeed made here, I bought it. Without a doubt it is VERY hard to find U.S. made goods, they're out there,One just has to put forth the effort, something most people won't do, because it's easier to go to Wal-Mart, or Lowe's..
Just keep in mind to actually support the US worker sometimes you must buy foreign.
For example:
Buy a Ford, support Mexico. You support Ford who sends American jobs and industries to Mexico and you support the Mexican worker.
Buy a BMW and you actually support BMW who builds factories in the US and employs American workers.
variablebinary
11-20-10, 15:00
People want to pop in to Walmart to get cheap stuff. When their cars brake they want cheap replacement costs.
Unions have killed off the manufacturing in this country and sell themselves off to the highest bidder.
"We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just put our hand in the next guys pocket." from HBO's The Wire pretty much sums it all up.
Seeing as the average American wage hasn't changed in nearly a decade, yeah, I can see why people are trying to save on goods. I don't blame walmart, or the American people for the economic plight we are in.
The price of goods is up, what you get paid is not. This while CEO salaries are up hundreds of a percent, while jobs are sent to China and Mexico. They aren't passing on savings to you and I, they are consolidating wealth and power into the top 2% and telling everyone else to eat a dick.
As for unions, they are not the enemy of American manufacturing. Being anti-union, and engaging in union busting is exactly what the globalists want. That doesn't mean that one needs to be pro-union either, but the fact that nearly every grandparent I have ever met, that owns a home, and retired comfortably was in a union is a clue. This generation should hope they are as well off, but I doubt it.
All it takes is a couple more free trade agreements, and the middle class will be further decimated, while trade deficits and national debt grow.
Just keep in mind to actually support the US worker sometimes you must buy foreign.
For example:
Buy a Ford, support Mexico. You support Ford who sends American jobs and industries to Mexico and you support the Mexican worker.
Buy a BMW and you actually support BMW who builds factories in the US and employs American workers.
This is true..I don't have a problem with companies coming here from overseas and wanting to build factorys and put our people to work,I'd like to see more of it. I've worked in a couple Honda plants during construction, shutdowns. (I'm a pipefitter) I see nothing wrong with them, Hell, I'd work there if I could.. I do however, have a problem with companies that are making a profit here, just drag up on their employees, communitys, and go to China...
As for unions, they are not the enemy of American manufacturing. Being anti-union, and engaging in union busting is exactly what the globalists want. That doesn't mean that one needs to be pro-union either, but the fact that nearly every grandparent I have ever met, that owns a home, and retired comfortably was in a union is a clue. This generation should hope they are as well off, but I doubt it.
Our high tax rates, unions and agreements like NAFTA are what have gotten us here.
We have more expensive labor (some of the most expensive in the world), we have more legalities on manufacturing than our competitors China has no regulations on emissions or things like lead-based paint, their workers rights? They don't have rights, it's a corrupt business, we have higher taxes, etc.
Also, what you're going to notice is that all the companies that most of those old timers retired from, are going Bankrupt because they can't afford the ever growing pool of retirees.
You also will notice that when Obama tried (and I don't support the guy, don't get me wrong) tried to get China to raise their dollar value, they didn't budge.
Why would they want their dollar worth less? So they can continue to undercut every single American business.
We're dealing with a Communist Country, and yet we forget.
But at the end of the day, frankly, there is a fail safe, that no matter how much we as a society screw up, we buy stuff from China.
Did you read that? We Buy stuff from China.
Third time, We buy stuff from China.
How can China surpass our economy when we're the source of theirs? Manufacturers make goods and sell those goods.
Do you know what happens to a business when they can't sell their products? They go out of business.
It's really simple in all actuality. Equilibrium will be maintained in whatever mutilated form because of that simple truth.
We're their largest consumer. They call in our debt and bankrupt us?
:laugh:
Say goodbye to their explosive growth.
As our economy down turns, so will theirs, despite their best efforts. It's a basic truth, they can't lie, cut corners or cheat their way around that, and frankly.
China can't afford a war, North Korea my friend, prime example.
Million man army? Alright, let's see you mobilize it.
We may be able to charge everything to debt, but China sure can't.
But I'd agree with SteyrAUG, I buy from people that build cars in America, and businesses that build in America and have American jobs, not guys who have commercials about selling their car with parts made in another country, and assembled in another country with the Flag flowing in the sunshine in the background to try to convince me I'm being patriotic (ETA 2: I can't seem to finish thoughts lately) by buying their product.
This is kind of scattered and ranty, but that's how I see it.
(ETA: Lately, I dunno, the material is there, the ideas are there but a few sentences didn't make sense, corrected a few instances.)
the fact that nearly every grandparent I have ever met, that owns a home, and retired comfortably was in a union is a clue. This generation should hope they are as well off, but I doubt it.
I think I'm reading this fact a little bit different than you are.
Bolt_Overide
11-20-10, 22:51
I still dont get why these dumb ass politicians cannot seem to understand that china is NOT our ****ing friend.
I think most people don't understand China. (This post is not a pro China post. I try and avoid Chinese made goods when possible and think we should stop sending out manufacturing and engineering to China).
However. China is not trying to take over the world (at this time). Not that they wouldn't want to. They have over 1.3 billion people. This scares their leadership a lot. A LOT. That leadership likes being the leadership. They like their perks. Their mistresses and cars. Their good food. Their body guards and power. In order to stay at the top, they need to make 1.3 billion people think that they are improving their lot. Which means they need to keep them employed.
Their main goal is to keep 1.3 billion people employed so that they don't grab ye olde pitchforks and torches.
That is why they insist on keeping their currency peg at a low value to give the advantage to their manufacturing sector. They need to keep making plastic crap and flimsy stuff to keep their people employed. They have been building whole cities worth of empty buildings during this recession in order to keep people employed. They fund American debt to make sure there is still a market for their crap. They need to do this to make sure that their factories can keep 1.3 billion people employed.
Along the way they accumulate lots of dollars. Like any good M4Cer, when they have extra money, they buy cool guns and stuff with it.
I am not saying that down the road things won't change and they might want to use those cool guns and stuff. And I agree that we need to knock of the welfare social spending crap, get Americans off their lazy asses, and build our own stuff and make sure we keep the cutting edge in the military.
But remember all of this is to keep the communist ruling class in charge in China so they can keep their mistresses and offices and cool cars and power. To do that they have to keep (the working part) of 1.3+ billion people employed to avoid ye olde pitchforks and torches routine.
It is a matter of self preservation on their leadership's part.
And indeed, as a follow-up:
In time, in order to distract their people and keep them employed (and reduce their ranks), China might eventually find it needs to do what all good dictators do when faced with too many people: send them off to a patriotic war to get killed and employ more people at home making weapons. That may happen too.
Just remember that it all comes down to keeping the Chinese CP in power and their elite as the elite. Which means dealing with and keeping employed 1.3+ billion people (or reducing the population somehow).
We're their largest consumer. They call in our debt and bankrupt us?
We would just renege on the debt and start a new currency (the New U.S. Dollar, the ObamaDollar, the DemoDollar, whatever).
Suwannee Tim
11-21-10, 08:03
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_8219.jpg
The last pair of steel toe electrical hazard shoes make in the US next to the last pair made in Britain. Well, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, Red Wing still makes a couple of models in the US, but all Doc Martens are made in China. When push comes to shove with China we are going to find out just how dependent we are on them. Shoes, clothing, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, machine tools, fasteners, electronic components, food additives, plastics, on and on and on.
variablebinary
11-21-10, 08:03
We would just renege on the debt and start a new currency (the New U.S. Dollar, the ObamaDollar, the DemoDollar, whatever).
No, we will devalue and inflate the dollar so paying the debt will be cake.
Only bread and milk will cost $500 a pop. No biggie
Suwannee Tim
11-21-10, 08:07
We would just renege on the debt and start a new currency
We just absolutely couldn't do that. No one would ever loan the US government money again.
We just absolutely couldn't do that. No one would ever loan the US government money again.
I don't know. GM just sold a ton of stock to a bunch of suckers. At the top end of the price range too.
And they (the suckers) only got wiped out last year. Did not take long for them to forget all about the last time they bought GM.
Suwannee Tim
11-21-10, 08:09
No, we will devalue and inflate the dollar so paying the debt will be cake.
Only bread and milk will cost $500 a pop. No biggie
Look on the bright side Variable, we will all be rich! We will all make half a million or more a year! How wonderful! Then we all get to pay soak the rich tax rates! Ever hear of the AMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_minimum_tax)? It ain't a gun.
EzGoingKev
11-21-10, 11:14
Seeing as the average American wage hasn't changed in nearly a decade, yeah, I can see why people are trying to save on goods. I don't blame walmart, or the American people for the economic plight we are in.
It is all related, nothing happens in a vacuum.
When we grew up you went to a shoe store that was owned by another family that lived in the same town. You bought paint, nails, wood, etc from the local hardware store that was owned by another local family. The sold goods from other American companies.
Now you pop into Walmart or Home Depot, a corporation who's only care is to make money for the executives, and buy stuff that is all made in China. What happened to the mom & pop stores? Well they are gone because they couldn't compete with the big chain stores.
while jobs are sent to China and Mexico.
Part of that has to do with heavy taxes and unionized labor driving up the cost of production in the US.
As for unions, they are not the enemy of American manufacturing. Being anti-union, and engaging in union busting is exactly what the globalists want.
I do not about what the globalists want or do not want in regards to union labor but from what I have seen the unions are bad for the American people.
Unions did good when they first came about but now all they do is protect the sacks of shit that should be fired but cannot be because they hide behind the union. I have seen this firsthand.
The UAW is a perfect example of negative effect the union has on American manufacturing. The rank and file could care less about the failing quality of the vehicles they were producing, only how many more vacation or sick days they could get, how much of a raise they would get, or how much more OT they could get.
Delphi took the majority of its manufacturing overseas because they could not be competitive with the union on its neck. Before they had to make sure the guying mowing the lawn at its facilities was a union employee making $65 an hour. Now thanks to that BS the manufacturing jobs are all in India, Indonesia, etc. For the most part, the only thing they do in the US now is the engineering aspect.
Unions drive up the cost of everything while not doing a single thing to improve the quality of the product, workers, or customer experience.
But I'd agree with SteyrAUG, I buy from people that build cars in America, and businesses that build in America and have American jobs, not guys who have commercials about selling their car with parts made in another country, and assembled in another country with the Flag flowing in the sunshine in the background to try to convince me I'm being patriotic (ETA 2: I can't seem to finish thoughts lately) by buying their product.
The company I work for sells auto parts. They have stuff made in China. The buyers went to China to see the factories. They brought back pictures of crates with our logos on them, our competitors logos on them, and GM's/Ford's/Chrysler's logo on them.
We just absolutely couldn't do that. No one would ever loan the US government money again.
When you sit down and think about it, That actually might not be a bad thing..for the first time in decades the govt would be forced, FORCED, to live within it's means..The down side is, (and it's huge) of course taxes would skyrocket, along with the price of everything.. Believe me, I honestly know what the answer is, But it's pretty clear we can't keep going down the path we're taking. Both the Dem's and Republicans have got to start working to save this country,not their partys. Both are guilty for the mess this country is in. There's plenty of blame to go around.. Hurling insults and blaming each other is non productive, and a waste of time, time we as a country don't have alot of left. It has to stop. I see the steam roller of inflation coming, and the dolts in Washington are too busy slinging mud at each other to notice....And when it hits, it's not going to be pretty
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_8219.jpg
The last pair of steel toe electrical hazard shoes make in the US next to the last pair made in Britain. Well, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, Red Wing still makes a couple of models in the US, but all Doc Martens are made in China.
Try Danner Boots out of Portland Oregon. As of two years ago their boots were all made in the USA.
I have been intentionally trying to avoid purchasing from sweat shop countries for years, while understanding that it is not ALWAYS possible for several years. In particular China.
If it takes the threat of possible conflict to convince the rest of the American population to similarly follow suit I say great. Yes, their intentions are dangerous! Yes we should focus our purchases within our own boarder, or those allies that share similar values to our own.
There is a billboard on a local trucking company that sums it up:
"Buy American, the next job lost may be yours!"
Suwannee Tim
11-21-10, 15:14
Danner does not make electrical hazard boots.
I see the steam roller of inflation coming, and the dolts in Washington are too busy slinging mud at each other to notice......
Au contraire. They know very well. Inflation benefits the power drunk politician. Through bracket creep it increases tax rates and makes people more dependent on government. The Democrats are not dolts they are statists. The Republicans are not dolts they are cowards. Want to frighten a Republican into submission? Call him a racist. Call me a racist, see what happens. I'll laugh at you. I'm not afraid of an insult and that is exactly what the term "racist" is. Merely an insult. It has lost all it's meaning. Nevertheless the Republicans are terrified of it.
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