Daniel Defense DDM4 V1 vs. V2 vs. V3 [Archive]

MacA

11-21-10, 10:06

I am about to purchase my first AR-15. Being very new to this firearm platform, I've decided to buy an "off-the-shelf" rifle instead of build a custom weapon. After a very long process of research, I have narrowed it down to two manufacturers. However, I am leaning heavily towards the Daniel Defense DDM4. Being a "newbie" to AR-15s I have a couple of questions about the various versions that Daniel Defense offers, primarily the V1, V2, and V3 models (excluding the lightweight versions).

Reading the website I think I have learned that these 3 versions are basically the same with only the following differences:

V1 & V2 only differ in their length of handguards. 12" vs. 7". All other components are the same.
V3 has a mid-length gas system vs. a carbine length on the V1 and V2.
V3 has a 9" handguard
Other than the differences mentioned above, the V3 is the same as V1 and V2 for all other components.

Is this correct? If there are more differences please post them.

THANKS!!

boomhower

11-21-10, 15:08

Yep, that's it. Handguards and gas system.

MacA

11-22-10, 06:25

MacA

11-24-10, 06:56

Picking up my DDM4v2 this afternoon. Went with the v2 over the v1 primarily because I am not a big fan of the extended hand rails. The v2's rails will be plenty long enough for what I plan to attach. Plus I got about a $50 price break over the v1.

The v3 was going to be about $100 more and I'm not worried enough about the difference in carbine vs. mid-length gas systems to justify the extra expense. I can use that money on "accessorizing"!!

fdxpilot

11-24-10, 14:52

Thanks boomhower! I know this seems like a pretty basic inquiry, but I just thought it was unusual for DD to actually have 3 seperate versions that were eccentually the same gun with different accessories. Don't most companies have a basic version that you can then accessorize to your liking?

Not that big a deal...I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something before I actually make my decision on which one to buy. So many things to learn about these ARs, but I am having a blast learning about them!! :dance3:

Since Daniels makes some of the best rail sytems on the market, in a variety of lengths and styles, I don't see why they wouldn't offer a variety of versions. Most other rifle assemblers don't make their own rails.

Being able to get the initial rifle purchase with the rails you want is a plus. No need to spend extra replacing the equipment on the "basic version." Although Daniels Defense does sell a "basic" rifle, their initial offering, the DDXV.

MacA

11-24-10, 16:16

Picked up my DDM4 this afternoon! First impressions....WOW!! Very light and well balanced. I can't wait to shoot it! Will post some pics as soon as I can get her cleaned up and presentable!!

boomhower

11-24-10, 16:54

Which one did you go with? I just got my DD lower in today and am waiting anxiously for my upper to get with. It will essentially be a V3.

MacA

11-24-10, 22:14

I decided on the v2 over the v1 and v3 because...

I don't like the look of the 12" rails on the v1. Just a personal preference.
The V3 was a little over $100 higher than the deal I got on my V2. I don't see the benefit of the mid length gas system being worth the extra money for what I am using this gun for (target shooting and home defense). I can put that $100 towards my optics.

fivefivesix

11-25-10, 23:23

i decided on a v2 as well. one hell of a rifle

MacA

11-26-10, 07:26

i decided on a v2 as well. one hell of a rifle

Have you added any optics to your v2?

fivefivesix

11-26-10, 17:20

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz266/mkIII1022/SU1HMDAxODctMjAxMDExMjItMTMwNi5qcGc.jpg
i have this propoint on there now till i can get the 230.00 for a bushnell holosight

Whootsinator

11-26-10, 17:25

Your rifle and optic choice confuses me slightly, but alright. It's an excellent rifle, you'll enjoy it thoroughly.

fivefivesix

11-26-10, 17:27

im unemployed and it took all ihad for the rifle. i aint got the cash for a 4 to 6 hundred red dot sight. unless you want to let me borrom some cash. whats to be confused about

gtmtnbiker98

11-26-10, 19:15

im unemployed and it took all ihad for the rifle. i aint got the cash for a 4 to 6 hundred red dot sight. unless you want to let me borrom some cash. whats to be confused about
Glad yours is running! Wish mine did.

fivefivesix

11-26-10, 19:20

Glad yours is running! Wish mine did.

whats wrong with yours

gtmtnbiker98

11-26-10, 19:30

whats wrong with yoursPM sent.

thopkins22

11-26-10, 19:53

I'd also like to hear what your problem is...and whether or not you've contacted DD.

Mine runs wonderfully with everything from the crappiest steel cased stuff I can find, to premium Hornady/Black Hills type stuff. I'm hovering around 3k through it without a hiccup. But I've pushed it relatively hard for that amount.

FWIW I think the V1 is one of the most thoroughly well thought out setups available today from any manufacturer.

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr130/thopkins22/100_0708.jpg

Whootsinator

11-26-10, 20:02

im unemployed and it took all ihad for the rifle. i aint got the cash for a 4 to 6 hundred red dot sight. unless you want to let me borrom some cash. whats to be confused about

If your final target is an Aimpoint or EOtech, it will cost you the your final optic + a $230 stepping stone. I see that you have perfectly capable fixed sights AND a propoint (aka another unnecessary stepping stone) on your rifle already. Personally, I'd even take the Propoint off and just run irons until I was both 100% comfortable with irons and able to afford an Aimpoint.

fivefivesix

11-26-10, 20:04

i understand what your saying know whoot. im quite capable with the irons and usually shoot it with just the irons but i have no experience with red dot dights. i found the bushnell holosight is 230 and is made by eotech.

Whootsinator

11-26-10, 20:06

i understand what your saying know whoot. im quite capable with the irons and usually shoot it with just the irons but i have no experience with red dot dights.

To me, that would be even more reason to stick with what you know until you can train with the best. But, that's just me.

In the end, it's whatever floats your boat. I know you'll love the rifle regardless. :)

fivefivesix

11-26-10, 20:07

i know the propoint is crap, and if i wouldnt have wasted the money on it i could still be saving.
heres what im looking at
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=bushnell+holo+sight&rlz=1I7TSHB_en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=5790386218942384109&ei=aWfwTNHbA4OclgfWlOS6DA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ8wIwAA#

boomhower

11-26-10, 20:43

Save your money for an Eotech or Aimpoint. Buy once, cry once.

lebowski

11-26-10, 21:55

If your final target is an Aimpoint or EOtech, it will cost you the your final optic + a $230 stepping stone. I see that you have perfectly capable fixed sights AND a propoint (aka another unnecessary stepping stone) on your rifle already. Personally, I'd even take the Propoint off and just run irons until I was both 100% comfortable with irons and able to afford an Aimpoint.

+1, run it w/ irons until you can afford an aimpoint, eotech, or other quality optic of your choice.

MacA

11-27-10, 15:43

Here is a picture of my DDM4v2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/QikStik/Guns/DDM4v21.jpg

rl168

11-27-10, 19:58

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz266/mkIII1022/SU1HMDAxODctMjAxMDExMjItMTMwNi5qcGc.jpg
i have this propoint on there now till i can get the 230.00 for a bushnell holosight

What light mount are you using?

fivefivesix

11-28-10, 09:22

What light mount are you using?
its a scope ring.

Quentin

01-25-11, 19:05

boomhower

01-25-11, 19:06

I'm also new to the DD model versions...

Continuing the versions, the V4 is a carbine gas system and the V5 is midlength with a rail mounted front sight instead of the V3's FSB?

And if you buy a midlength with a lightweight profile barrel and FSB it would be called a DDM4 V3 LW?

You got it. I have now bought two, a V3 and a V3 LW. Love them both but prefer the LW.

Jake Bauer

01-27-11, 04:17

Good looking DD Mac!

Wolf Spyder

01-27-11, 12:44

MacA,

Go ahead and run that El-Cheap-O RDS. Get a feel for how they work. I have had one particular El-Cheap-O $30 Tasco RDS for more than 12 years. (I have several cheap red dots from birthday gifts and what not) It has been on my Autococker paintball gun, my shotgun, and my M4-gery. I too am saving up for an Aimpoint RDS. Just when I get close to having enough mad money for my Aimpoint, something always comes up... something breaks on one of the trucks... one of the kids needs medical care... dam water heater starts leaking...

In the end it is only a sighting aid. If my El-Cheap-O RDS dies tomorrow I am not out anything. I flip up the BUIS and keep right on going. I see a whole lot of pictures of AR15 rifles with out any kind of optic mounted... my gut is telling me that the owner of the rifle pulled the El-Cheap-O RDS off of his or her rifle to take the picture, just so they would not have to endure the jokes and snearing.

Are the El-Cheap-O RDS as good as the real thing... Hell, No. But that is not going to keep me from using what I got until something better comes along. So take pride in your rifle, leave that Propoint on there, use it. When you can buy something better, replace it. Have fun, put a thousand rounds down range with your new rifle and let us know what you think of it. Let us know how it is working out for you.

This picture is a few months old, the set-up has changed to light'n the load out, but it shows my M4-gery with my El-Cheap-O Tasco RDS.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/AR15%20Advisor/MB5Q3694copy.jpg

Edited to add; Skip the bushnell holosight... keep using the Propoint and just save the money for a real EO Tech or Aimpoint when you get the chance. You will get the same jokes and looks with the bushnell holosight as you do with the El-Cheap-O Propoint / Tasco RDS. Gear Snobs take one look and ask, "What...? You couldn't afford a real sight?" Good guys won't give you too much crap about your gear, they might joke a little, but ass holes are ass holes. It says more about the person running their mouth than all the gucci gear they are sporting.

MacA

01-28-11, 07:13

Go ahead and run that El-Cheap-O RDS. Get a feel for how they work...

I love to read the "chest-pounding" replies some members post regarding high cost optics. If I were in the military or a LEO there is no doubt that I would pay for one of the Aimpoint/Eotech optics. However, the VAST MAJORITY of members on this forum DO NOT NEED that level of optics. I purchased a very low cost, GOOD QUALITY, red dot scope from Primary Arms. I have shot several hundred rounds through my DD with it, dropped it a couple of times, and bumped it several times, with no problems whatsoever with the accuracy and performance of the PA's optic. I expect it to continue to perform just like I need it to for a long time! And if it doesn't, then I can buy about 6 more of them before I have spent the money it would take to buy the REAL Aimpoint scope! But I doubt that will ever happen. I have more than enough money to buy the high cost versions, I just don't see the need.

If you want (and need) to spend the money for the high-end stuff, please, by all means, go for it! However, for my applications, the Primary Arms optic provides the same "service" for me that the high cost optics would.

Off the soapbox.....:thank_you2:

BTW, DDM4v2 FTW!!!

6933

01-28-11, 07:19

MacA

01-28-11, 07:41

What separates this forum from others is that the "vast majority" "do need" quality optics. This forum is mainly populated by LE, .mil, contractors, and guys that attend multiple training classes per year. This isn't TOS.

Although I don't post too often, I have been a lurker here for a while. This is a GREAT forum! I have learned a lot. But I will agree to disagree with you. :no: My observations have been different. This forum has a lot of active (high post count) members that might fit into your categories, but the majority of the total number of members are "civilians". For your "professional" members, high-end optics is probably a good idea. But too many people assume they are the only acceptable option. That is wrong!

uwe1

01-28-11, 10:10

Although I don't post too often, I have been a lurker here for a while. This is a GREAT forum! I have learned a lot. But I will agree to disagree with you. :no: My observations have been different. This forum has a lot of active (high post count) members that might fit into your categories, but the majority of the total number of members are "civilians". For your "professional" members, high-end optics is probably a good idea. But too many people assume they are the only acceptable option. That is wrong!

Based on your logic, I'm a civilian, so I don't need an AR15, and I definitely don't need a Tier 1 gun. On the same note, I'm just commuting to work every day, so why do I need a sports sedan? You don't need a 48"-52" TV to watch TV (you definitely don't need a flat screen). The list goes on and on. Many of us try to purchase higher quality because we can and do appreciate the difference.

I am someone who has purchased shitty stuff for my gun because I thought I didn't "need" the better stuff. I probably really don't "need" any of the stuff I have now. However, when you actually take the time to test and appreciate the more quality built/designed items, it becomes obvious why they cost more. I refuse to purchase things that are "good enough for my needs" and then find them lacking and have to purchase another one to replace it. For many of us on this site, an AR15 is primarily a home defense weapon and we've chosen to outfit ourselves with the highest quality we can in order to enhance reliability, function, and the ability to effectively drive the gun. When/if the SHTF, I know my gun will have a very high probability of functioning and that my optics probably won't run out of batteries.

Quentin

01-28-11, 12:48

Well steering back on topic, whether civilian or a pro, buying a Daniel Defense DDM4 V1, V2, V3 or equivalent will at least earn a slight a nod of approval from even the toughest, most experienced members of M4Carbine.net! :D

yunggunz

01-28-11, 13:29

I have a DDM4v5 and it is nice. I had FTFeed problems but I chalked that up to out-of-spec steel case ammo. No problems with same brand/same weight but I guess different batch. Wolf even fed without a problem.

Wolf Spyder

01-28-11, 13:48

Just a few words, since I was partially to blame for getting folks off course.

6933, What separates this forum from others is that the "vast majority" of members here are good guys. They offer assistance to the less educated. Most of the members here are patient to a fault with newbies, and most of the members here are very knowledgeable and don't mind taking a few minutes to help their fellow shooters. This forum is much better than Lightfighter in that regard. Those folks are less inclined to excuse ignorance and by extension less inclined to be patient and provide an education to the non-professional.

uwe1, I am sure that no one person was being singled out, so don't get your panties in a bunch. I am also sure that MacA was speaking in generalizations regarding his frustrations. Our soldiers more often than not need more and/or better things than what our Government issues them. So need has nothing to do with either the Soldier or the Civilian when it comes to selecting weapons or equipment.

I know what it is like to look for that glimpse of approval from someone you respect, with regards to your equipment. And, I know what its like to have a Soldier crack wise at the expense of your equipment. You laugh and joke, because it is all in good humor. I am proud of my rifle. I built it myself, with no help from any one else, except of course the VCR tape gun smithing video, that warned me about "concrete soluble" parts. I did a fair amount of research before I bought my parts. I lurked on the web forums... I pissed folks off with my really stupid questions. I was ignorant and needed help. I am always learning new stuff, figuring out better ways of doing things. I hope I am always mindful of and helpful to though who are just as ignorant as I use to be.

Is my AR15, my M4-gery, a "Hard Use" AR15...? How can it be, it has a 1:9 twist 4140 barrel that has not been HP or MP tested... (thats a joke, by the way) :haha:

My point... Light'n up folks, we are all here to learn.

6933

01-28-11, 15:06

A point was missed. The civilians referenced are the ones I was referring to. Many of these take multiple training classes per year and good optics are needed. Want to run a POS? Go ahead, but don't expect sympathy on this site when it craps out. Going with a POS but not training or running hard? No problem. Just don't try to lecture those that do.

As far as this forum having a higher percentage of good guys compared to other forums, yes. That dovetails with the percentage of members that take training classes and weapons seriously. Very few mall ninjas last here.

I'm training tomorrow with a VSM instructor and one of the first things asked was what type of pistol, rifle, and optics. I wonder why?

1:9 twist. Please.:)

Oh, and to answer the OP's question-the 12" handguard should allow you to mount a light closer to the end. This should help with shadows being produced by the barrel which may hinder visibility.

variablebinary

01-28-11, 15:18

DD makes good kit.

If you need an optic, then don't buy a shitty one

If you don't need an optic, then run irons and don't waste time with a shitty optic

Wolf Spyder

01-28-11, 15:28

VSM instructor = VICKERS SHOOTING METHOD instructor.

I admit, I had to look it up, but I figured some body else might want to know as well.

uwe1

01-28-11, 17:20

My point... Light'n up folks, we are all here to learn.

I don't think I was coming down on anyone that hard, and if anyone thought I was, it was not my intention. I, too, am here to learn, and have learned much over the last two years thanks to this site. I think some people are really missing the point. No one is trying to say that what anyone else is using is crap. We are just stating facts. For reasons of using the gun for self defense, I insist on purchasing higher quality.

I have a S&W MP15 I would trust with my life. It has the original bolt with a BCM FA M16 carrier and a H2 buffer. The barrel is 4140 1:9 twist and my HD loads are with 69 gr. bullets. It's at 3000 rounds, including a carbine class without a hiccup. But I know that the barrel prevents me from shooting the heavier OTMs as well. I actually tested mine.

Wolf Spyder

01-28-11, 18:06

I didn't think I was coming down on anyone that hard, and if anyone thought I was, it was not my intention.

No sweat dude.

I have a S&W MP15 I would trust with my life.

How is the fit between the upper and lower on your S&W?

uwe1

01-28-11, 19:31

How is the fit between the upper and lower on your S&W?

PM sent.

The Dumb Gun Collector

01-28-11, 19:52

Nice rifle! I don't see any problem playing with the propoint until you can scrounge money for an Aimpoint. I would certainly rather have a top-drawer rifle with a throwaway optic than a throwaway gun with a Schmidt and Bender optic!

Good first buy!

Quentin

01-28-11, 20:33

... I would certainly rather have a top-drawer rifle with a throwaway optic than a throwaway gun with a Schmidt and Bender optic!..

Even I now know that's an excellent point!

MacA

01-29-11, 07:21

Just don't try to lecture those that do...

And this is my point exactly. Except, I would end the phrase with "Just don't try to lecture those that do...purchase lower cost optics". I believe that there are lower cost alternatives hitting the market that are ALMOST just as good as the high cost options. I believe Primary Arms and a few other companies are starting to develop products that are closing the gap.

Here's a little food-for-thought....New technological developments are a wonderful thing, especially to those companies that are innovative enough to be the first guys on the market with these new products. Typically these companies ask incredible prices for their products because there is no competition...limited supply and high demand. But if the demand is significant enough, the slow-to-innovate companies start coming out of the woodwork to capitalize on the new market. Here is where you start seeing poor quality / low cost alternatives. But as the market matures, innevitably you start seeing reputable companies that can produce excellent quality alternatives, but choose to price their goods low enough to get a "piece of the pie". This is where I think this market is right now. A good indicator of this is that you are now seeing lower cost alternatives in the Aimpoint and EoTech product lines. They won't admit to their large profit margins on the "high-end" products, they go after their market losses by manufacturing "entry-level" options.

I never "lectured" anyone about their choice of optics. To each his own and more power to you! My only point is...there are lower cost alternatives that more than adequately meet the needs of a large portion of the members here. I have a problem with the lecturing that is directed towards them.

And if you want a real analogy....some people don't want to spend the money on a high-end Porsche or Ferrari, but for about a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost I'll bring my Corvette and challenge you anyday. Back in the day, the German and Italian manufacturers laughed at GM's attempt to challenge their superiority. They're not laughing so much these days!! The gap has narrowed. :dirol:

Thanks for all the replies regarding the DDM4 line of ARs. What a great weapon!!

xbmxracerx

01-29-11, 09:18

You made a great choice.....my DDv3 was purchased back in June and it is (has been) a blast to shoot. Come spring, my co-workers from Michigan and I get to do an "Office Space" party. Had a printer fail and they don't need it back.......

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/180009_1793822961361_1113293683_2086834_875707_n.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG02100-20110122-1802.jpg

MacA

01-29-11, 10:01

You made a great choice.....my DDv3 was purchased back in June and it is (has been) a blast to shoot. Come spring, my co-workers from Michigan and I get to do an "Office Space" party. Had a printer fail and they don't need it back.......

THANKS! Nice looking AR yourself!

Would love to see pictures of the printer after you "get it fixed"!!

fivefivesix

01-29-11, 10:31

has any one changed there handgaurds to antoher brand, i put usgi plastic handgaurds on mine as the 4 rails were more than i needed.
currently looking for a troy trx 7.2

xbmxracerx

01-29-11, 13:36

THANKS! Nice looking AR yourself!

Would love to see pictures of the printer after you "get it fixed"!!

I most certainly will get those up!
Here we are watching the Military Channel:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG01573-20101013-1452.jpg

Here she is hanging around while I shoot her baby sister:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG00132.jpg

Quentin

01-29-11, 13:40

has any one changed there handgaurds to antoher brand, i put usgi plastic handgaurds on mine as the 4 rails were more than i needed.
currently looking for a troy trx 7.2

The Magpul MOE handguard would be the best choice.

Daniel Defense/S&W right
http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/Quentin68/DDUpper-SWLower-MOEright.jpg

Evolution

01-29-11, 16:18

I Was just on the DD website, looks like they're currently sold out of all mid-length M4's.

I currently own a Bushmaster (Yeah, yeah) with a Primary Arms M3 style red dot which I'm very happy with. Thinking about a second AR and thinking the DDV3 with a ACOG would be a great choice.

The struggle for me is I qualify for LE discounts with S&W, I could almost get the gun and the ACOG for the price of just the DD rifle. My understanding though is S&W doesn't make the mid-length rifles yet?

....

Quentin

01-29-11, 16:48

...The struggle for me is I qualify for LE discounts with S&W, I could almost get the gun and the ACOG for the price of just the DD rifle. My understanding though is S&W doesn't make the mid-length rifles yet?

....

Sure they do, look at the picture just above your post!

Sorry, just kidding Evolution, I built up a S&W stripped lower then added a Daniel Defense LW midlength upper. :D

Anyway, I've heard rumors from the SHOT Show S&W may release a midlength this year. Second hand of course, but maybe someone can confirm it. It would make a lot of sense, surely it would be a hot seller.

Otherwise, the current S&W M4gery isn't a bad way to go especially with your LE discount. Take a look at the M4 Chart, drop in an H2 buffer and you really don't have much to apologize for. It would be a great AR at your price. I've also heard that some LE S&Ws have the 1:7 twist which would solve the last big issue for most folks.

xbmxracerx

01-30-11, 08:40

I Was just on the DD website, looks like they're currently sold out of all mid-length M4's.

I currently own a Bushmaster (Yeah, yeah) with a Primary Arms M3 style red dot which I'm very happy with. Thinking about a second AR and thinking the DDV3 with a ACOG would be a great choice.

Can't go wrong with that combo.....:D I went with the TA31RCO-M4CP

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG01665-20101023-2208.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/IMG02103-20110123-1117.jpg
My latest aquisition.....
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/180148_1831579305246_1113293683_2157166_1658794_n.jpg