View Full Version : Picking out a back up iron sight
Blindeye_03
11-21-10, 18:51
I used to have an arms 40 lp on my last ar - I should have kept the sight...
Anyways I was considering either the Daniel Defense fixed rear sight or maybe Magpuls buis but was wondering how much the fixed sight would get in the way if I were using an aimpoint?
I think I would like to have something that folds down - is the MBUIS a good sight? If not is there anything better for not much more money?
Blindeye_03
11-21-10, 19:46
Why do you recommend that?
LonghunterCO
11-21-10, 19:50
I like the MBUS and the DD A1.5. I have both. Troy is nice but not what I would call for "only a little bit more money" over the MBUS.
TheActivePatriot
11-21-10, 19:52
If you want a folding rear, the Troy is one of the best there is.
For a fixed rear, the DD A1.5 or Larue.
A fixed rear will clutter up your sight picture with an absolute co-witness setup, but will only be a minor annoyance with a lower 1/3 co-witness.
The FSB is not an issue with a RDS or a magnified optic 4x or above.
I'd try a DD rear sight. I'd probably cut down a BCM carry handle if I needed the top rail on my AR.
Nothing that folds is acceptable for me.
arizonaranchman
11-21-10, 22:35
IMHO the Troy folding BUIS is an outstanding choice. Not exactly cheap, but it's solid steel construction, very well machined and finished and very solid/sturdy in my experience.
The Troy folder is all I use.
Go Troy. I went with the MBUS and a month later I sold it and got the Troy. The Troy is smaller and more solid. Worth the price easily IMO.
Troy is not steel, they are aluminum bodies. Folding rear, Troy is built the toughest and best. Locks in place well compared to others, lays flatter than others, better design all around than other folders. Nothing wrong using a folding rear with an optic.
edit: I've broken a couple magpuls. Their bases are too thin and fragile. The DD is poorly designed, in my opinion, as it relies on bending the base of the sight to tighten it to the rail. And every DD I've seen has the aperture drilled crooked (maybe there's a reason for that, but I'm not aware of it).
DD 1.5 or the KAC 300m or 600m for folding.
aspiderfreak
11-22-10, 00:04
I vote KAC 300-600 or the ARMS 40.
DD 1.5 for sure. Lightweight, always up, tough as nails. How any fighting rifle should be
DaBears_85
11-22-10, 01:14
Troy makes a mighty fine BUIS, I've had the pleasure of owning a couple over the years. They are definitely better, in my opinion, than the MBUS. The Troy is made from aircraft-grade aluminum, while the MBUS is made of a polymer. The MBUS functioned fine, and while I'm sure it is plenty durable, I didn't like the fact that it was made of a polymer. It just felt like it was a toy or something. The only things I didn't like about the Troy's were that they were a tad on the heavy side, as far as BUIS's are concerned, and that it wouldn't fold down with the small aperture 'activated'. So when I flipped up the sight I was having to take an extra second, give or take, to switch it from the large aperture to the small one. Again, that might not be an issue for everyone based on one's individual preferences and/or priorities, but it was for me. For the last couple months now I've been using the A.R.M.S. #40L SP and really like it. It's the lightest BUIS you can get (other than the MBUS, I believe), and it has a same-plane aperture. So when the BUIS is activated, it comes up with the small aperture ready to go. It also seems to lock up nice and tight with the receiver. I've put somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-4k rounds through my weapon since installing it and the screw hasn't budged yet, knock on wood.
As others have stated Troy is the way to go. I agree with their above reasons....
I have the Magpul MBUS, they are great sites and cheap since you can usually find the set for under a $100. That being said, as has previously, been posted here, I don't think you can beat the Troy folders. I have ARMS, Magpul, MI, DD , and Troy BUIS, and the two sets of Troy Di-Optic Tritium folders I have are by far my favorites. Sturdy, accurate and reliable, but to be truthful I haven't had a problem with any of the BUIS in that list. If your already shooting a Aimpoint, you probably wont be using BUIS much except to co-witness anyways :) One thing I like about the MBUS the Troys don't have is the spring pop up function.
jklaughrey
11-22-10, 03:48
A guide made by Stickman.
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6-Guide-for-assorted-rear-BUIS
I'd try a DD rear sight. I'd probably cut down a BCM carry handle if I needed the top rail on my AR.
Nothing that folds is acceptable for me.
Agreed. After years of fiddle-****ing around with various rifle mods based on personal preference and what I perceived made me a better shooter, I realized that I was doing it wrong. Now, I determine what makes the rifle better, and then train myself to get good at that arrangement.
Folding and popup sights are one more thing to fail, imo.
My newest upper will sport a DD 1.5.
I've been using the LMT for a few years now and was thinking about switching to a Troy or something in a flip. Till I was shooting drills one day and the EO just stopped working no battery changing helped. The range I was at is private and a long drive from my house, at that time. I was shooting a new set up(DD 12.0 FSP upper) and wanted to run the parts and check for issues. So I pulled the EO and shot with Irons the rest of the day. I then understood that I dont think for shootability I would ever like any flip. The LMT is a true rear sight and I like that.
To each there own but I don't think I would ever want to make due with some of these flips. I guess IMO there not a back up if I hate the back up.
Hell I just bought anouther set even. Its a KISS idea. I run optics so much that if I have to jump to irons there all the same and I've know that profile for years back to when I was a kid even.
I've got an older GG&G MAD sight that I've had for 10+ years.
Spurholder
11-22-10, 14:00
Larue fixed BUIS here...for a folder, Troy.
The only time I've heard of the Magpul MBUS breaking is when someone over tightened the screw while installing it. There are a lot of good BUIS on the market, the ARMS BUIS are in that group, as are others. Keep in mind that nothing is perfect, I've broken 2 Troy rear folders, and they are generally considered to be bombproof.
I recently got magpul mbus sights and like them for how low cost they are. They have a large footprint thou. I took a dremel to the rear sight to trim down the port side release latch. One time of rushing when using the charging handle and banging my knuckles on it I decided it had to go.
I haven't had them long so can't speak to how they will hold up.
I am going with the MBUS because of cost and for the fact that if I need flip up sights...... I am in a world of hurt and it won't really matter what sights I have. I am dropping the coin on an Aimpoint H1 so it's the main sight and the mag pul sights will keep me running in a worse case moment.
The only time I've heard of the Magpul MBUS breaking is when someone over tightened the screw while installing it. There are a lot of good BUIS on the market, the ARMS BUIS are in that group, as are others. Keep in mind that nothing is perfect, I've broken 2 Troy rear folders, and they are generally considered to be bombproof.
I'd have to agree with this on the Troy sights. I know they have a good reputation, but I've had two bust on me. Switched over to KAC sights and haven't looked back since.
Dionysusigma
11-22-10, 17:52
I would vote for either the Larue fixed or LMT fixed, as the DD also requires an A1 sight tool to adjust. The Larue uses a coin or other flat object, and the LMT uses fingers. :)
In fact, I'm heavily looking at both of those for my 14.5 BCM + BC1.5 middy build.
I love my fixed Larue BUIS; having the back up sights ready to use at all times is in my opinion a distinct advantage; for me they don't get in the way at all.
I would vote for either the Larue fixed or LMT fixed, as the DD also requires an A1 sight tool to adjust. The Larue uses a coin or other flat object, and the LMT uses fingers. :)
In fact, I'm heavily looking at both of those for my 14.5 BCM + BC1.5 middy build.
Can't you just use the tip of a round to adjust the windage drum?
Yes, the DD is designed off of A1 sights; for backups, I prefer simple, robust, and not easily thrown out of zero, so I prefer the DD and Larue. The LMT is just an A2 sight.
Can't you just use the tip of a round to adjust the windage drum?
Now, where are you going to get the tip of a round?
;)
Just kidding.
Personally, I have no idea why they went to the A2 with the exposed knobs. It's not like you need to apply dope in combat or something.
Dionysusigma
11-22-10, 19:00
Can't you just use the tip of a round to adjust the windage drum?
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/Smileys/default/smack.gif :sarcastic:
I stand humbled. :p
I like all of the iron sights I've tried. On a budget the MBUS are great. I prefer the LMT folders to them, and my favorite are the KAC Micro. The KAC 200-600m Micro has a lot of utility for a small, lightweight solution. I am not a fan of fixed rear sights, but if I was building a gun without an optic I'd probably opt for the DD.
You'll probably be OK with anything that wasn't made in China, though, based on the list of recommendations you've received. :D
I like all of the iron sights I've tried. On a budget the MBUS are great. I prefer the LMT folders to them, and my favorite are the KAC Micro. The KAC 200-600m Micro has a lot of utility for a small, lightweight solution. I am not a fan of fixed rear sights, but if I was building a gun without an optic I'd probably opt for the DD.
You'll probably be OK with anything that wasn't made in China, though, based on the list of recommendations you've received. :D
LMT makes folders news to me
LMT makes folders news to me
Ah, I actually meant Troy. :o
Ah, I actually meant Troy. :o
Hey I don't blame you its tough to keep track with all these companies out there.
sandsunsurf
11-23-10, 09:18
One more opinion to throw out there- I like the MBUS sight picture better than the Troy. It's definitely worth going to a local gun shop and trying a couple of rifles that have each type of sight.
I've had several ARMS 40's,a couple of Matech's,several different designs from YHM,a bunch of chopped carry handles,and an MI. I'd have to say my favorite is the ARMS 40 with the Matech coming in secound. I've never considered a plastic site because,well,its plastic.I wouldn't think they would have the robustness of a metal site. As for robust the chopped carry handle would have to be the winner.
Stickman,
How did you manage to bust two Troy real folders? I assume they were flipped up and dropped on the ground? Do you remember if there was an optic on the weapon either time? I would think that if one had any type of optic on the gun, it would take the hit rather than your BUIS. Thats pretty amazing stuff.
VelveteenMole
11-23-10, 13:43
Stickman,
How did you manage to bust two Troy real folders? I assume they were flipped up and dropped on the ground? Do you remember if there was an optic on the weapon either time? I would think that if one had any type of optic on the gun, it would take the hit rather than your BUIS. Thats pretty amazing stuff.
I'm curious about this as well. It looks like there's a roll pin that pins the tilting sight body to the pivot shaft. Did the roll pin snap when the sight body was impacted? Was it fixable with a replacement roll pin?
liberty057
11-23-10, 17:13
If you want a folding rear, the Troy is one of the best there is.
For a fixed rear, the DD A1.5 or Larue.
Exactly. I've owned all three. You can't do any better.
Magpul MBUS
Remember... it is a backup sight.
DaBears_85
11-23-10, 19:30
Magpul MBUS
Remember... it is a backup sight.
It's a backup paperweight if the spring fails, which is what some here are trying to say. It's a valid point and something that should be taken into consideration.
It's a backup paperweight if the spring fails
If the spring fails? ... on a backup sight that is used... how often?
I find that logic hard to fathom.
I like all of the iron sights I've tried. On a budget the MBUS are great. I prefer the LMT folders to them, and my favorite are the KAC Micro. The KAC 200-600m Micro has a lot of utility for a small, lightweight solution. I am not a fan of fixed rear sights, but if I was building a gun without an optic I'd probably opt for the DD.
You'll probably be OK with anything that wasn't made in China, though, based on the list of recommendations you've received. :D
So what is the difference between the KAC 200-600m Micro and the regular KAC 200-600m sight?
DaBears_85
11-23-10, 20:47
If the spring fails? ... on a backup sight that is used... how often?
I find that logic hard to fathom.
How likely are you to experience a tire failure on a day-to-day basis? Not very, yet you still see people on the side of the road with their car on a jack and a tire iron in their hands. Shit breaks, and anything that can go wrong usually does. Yes, to the casual shooter that makes the occasional trip to the range, it's not a big deal. They can fix it when they get home or order a new one, or whatever. Those who are mounting a BUIS on their duty rifle or HD gun can't always afford that luxury and need to take into serious consideration the pros and cons of both the flip-up and fixed sights. For them the difference between the two could be the difference between going home at night and... well, you get the point.
ETA: I don't mean to sound all melodramatic, I'm just trying to stress the importance something as simple as a spring can have. I mentioned earlier that I run the #40L SP, which is a spring-loaded flip-up sight, but after testing nearly every different type of BUIS available, found it to best fit my situational needs.
So what is the difference between the KAC 200-600m Micro and the regular KAC 200-600m sight?
I believe the Micro has a smaller base which makes it lighter, but have never seen them side by side.
jklaughrey
11-23-10, 21:43
Pics of BUIS, including the KAC.
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6-Guide-for-assorted-rear-BUIS
PieceKeeper
11-24-10, 00:42
I noticed that you had mentioned the ARMS 40 series. I Have one as well. For my other rifle, I was contemplating the magpul BUIS but got these instead, ARMS 71 series - http://www.botachtactical.com/ar7171flsi.html - The price point is similar and they seem to be a little lower profile than the Magpuls. I haven't had a chance to beat them up yet so I don't know how they'll hold up but my ARMS 40l has held up well so I'd bet the quality is still top notch. For my next build, I've ordered the Troy BUIS due to my paranoid fear of spring failure and prep for long term reliability.
Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse more.
Anyone have experience with the 71 series polymer ARMS BUIS? I'd be interested in your experience with them as well.
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