View Full Version : Looking for a sensible 1911 suggestion
"What the hell did he mean by 'sensible'?".....
Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions from you guys on factory, non-custom 1911s. I can't use it for duty carry, but will use it for some IDPA/3-Gun and courses. It would probably also fill the role of secondary weapon for HD. I am used to a Glock 21, and love the simplicity and reliability of that gun.
I've tried a few makes of 1911s and liked the Kimber, but am interested in what else is out there. I know I'd like a pistol with the following stats:
-Ambi safety
-Checkering on front strap
-Beveled/flared mag well
-Slide serrations
-1913 rail on frame for tac-light
Beyond that, I'm open to suggestions. The top end of my price range is about $1,200 for a point of reference, and hopefully that's realistic.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions-
Pat
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65959
I think kimber is going to be your only option for that price. I have a TLE/RL2 kimber that has everything you mentioned EXCEPT the ambi safety. Which i actually prefer. However that's something that can easily be replaced. Also the beveled mag well's from factory is a joke. You'll have to add an aftermarket one for sure.
Springfield has 1911's with some of those options, but most of them don't have front strap checkering. The ones with rails usually cost quite a bit too. Except for the lightweight operator which has an alluminum frame (ewww). The only ones that have front strap checkering is the TRP series which definately cost more than $1200.
Colt 1911's w/ rail will most likely run you more than $1200 and i don't think they come with front strap checkering.
Out of all the features you've listed, i think the front strap checkering is the MOST important and like i said, kimber is probably the only one out there that has that feature for a reasonable price.
Isn't the Springfield TRP in that price point, $1200 to 1500?
Dave Berryhill
11-22-10, 17:21
....Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions from you guys on factory, non-custom 1911s....
BLASPHEMY!! :D
The Springfield MC Operator is probably the closest thing to what you are looking for, followed by the Colt XSE with a rail.
Take a look at the Gunsite Colt.
http://www.gunsite.com/main/proshop/gunsmithy/gunsite-colt-service-pistol/
http://www.gunsite.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/colt_pistol1.jpg
It's $1225, but the one I have has been worth every penny. No MIM parts and mine eats everything I feed it. It's an all you need, nothing you don't gun.
What does checkering cost? I checker my own so I do not know the current market.
It seems you could buy a Springfield or other brand with all the options you want except checkering and with the money left over have the front strap checkered.
I personally do not like 30 lpi checkering. I do own a Kimber but the checkering is not aggressive enough.
Recently backed out of a Springfield deal (impulse buyer at times) and went back to Colt. I wanted a sensible 1911 as a gift for my wife. It is the Gold Cup Trophy, stainless. I was relieved when the dealer let me back out because the Colt is the one I wanted in the first place. New, it is the same price as the Springfield was, used (just under 1000.00). The stock grip on the Colt is a wrap around that is, well, sensible. Very elegant, yet not too flashy. Does not have the rail, but I prefer that anyway. Comes with target sights... well check one out if you can do with out the rail. JMO.
Springfield MC Operator and send it to MARS Armament or Springfield Custom shop (undercut and texture frontstrap, S&A Magwell MSH, trigger and extractor work).
If 20LPI and other details of the TRP make sense for you, go that route.
If you have more money but still care about resale, then you could do the same with a Colt rail gun.
Thanks for all of the links, suggestions and references. I think I will look primarily at Kimber and Springfield for the desired features. The Kimber Custom TLE/RL II, Warrior and the Springfield MC Operator both look great. I think I might be able to go above $1,200 as long as I can sell some other guns that I'm ready to let go of anyway.
Thanks again,
Pat
I just got a springfield operator last week. the thing costs as much as my first car and will probably outlast the car and myself. the frontstrap isn't checkered, the magwell isn't beveled much and to me the slide serrations aren't aggressive enough for as stiff as the gun is. but unless someone works it over nothing will ever be exactly how I want it anyway. overall very great pistol and one of the better looking railed 1911s I think.
Thanks for the review, Big Hoss. Where did you find your Operator?
Based on MANY positive reviews of this pistol well beyond anything from Kimber, I've decided on the MC Operator.
Thanks,
Pat
i'm envious. I want an mc operator. But no one ever has them locally.
This will raise a few eyebrows, but .... it. Everything you are wanting except the beveled mag well is on the Taurus, right out of the box. Beveling the well is easy if you are a good tooler, and not expensive to have done by a smith. The Taurus comes with a great trigger, as well. Earlier recommended the Colt Gold Cup (my next prize) but the Taurus, along with 1500 rds of good factory ammo can be had for 1200.00.
QuickStrike
11-25-10, 16:54
This will raise a few eyebrows, but .... it. Everything you are wanting except the beveled mag well is on the Taurus, right out of the box. Beveling the well is easy if you are a good tooler, and not expensive to have done by a smith. The Taurus comes with a great trigger, as well. Earlier recommended the Colt Gold Cup (my next prize) but the Taurus, along with 1500 rds of good factory ammo can be had for 1200.00.
Isn't the Taurus well known for having many "desirable" features cobbled together poorly? I doubt many of the top smiths think much of them...
I'd rather just get a colt 70 series, and save up for some parts upgrade and better sights.
:suicide::suicide::suicide2::suicide2:
This will raise a few eyebrows, but .... it. Everything you are wanting except the beveled mag well is on the Taurus, right out of the box. Beveling the well is easy if you are a good tooler, and not expensive to have done by a smith. The Taurus comes with a great trigger, as well. Earlier recommended the Colt Gold Cup (my next prize) but the Taurus, along with 1500 rds of good factory ammo can be had for 1200.00.
:suicide::suicide::suicide:Not if the Taurus was the last 1911 on earth.
This will raise a few eyebrows, but .... it. Everything you are wanting except the beveled mag well is on the Taurus, right out of the box. Beveling the well is easy if you are a good tooler, and not expensive to have done by a smith. The Taurus comes with a great trigger, as well. Earlier recommended the Colt Gold Cup (my next prize) but the Taurus, along with 1500 rds of good factory ammo can be had for 1200.00.
Taurus and 1500 rds good ammo $1200
Shipping back to Taurus for repair $10
The look on your face when you realize you bought a big pile of excrement shaped like a 1911 and 1500 rounds of good ammo,,, priceless.
R3V3LATIONS
11-25-10, 17:31
+1, taurus has QC problems out the arse, and in the respected opinion of many local smiths in my area, taurus makes a highly polished turd. Im not a 1911 guy....yet, for lack of funding and research, but I would apply the logic of "you get what you pay for" The previous posts on this site, and in this thread seem to indicate the MC Operator would be the route to go. If it was my 1200 laying around for a 1911, that is what I would do
Taurus and 1500 rds good ammo $1200
Shipping back to Taurus for repair $10
The look on your face when you realize you bought a big pile of excrement shaped like a 1911 and 1500 rounds of good ammo,,, priceless.
...And that is pretty much what I'm trying to avoid!
I currently have a Taurus PT1911 with only c.500 rounds through it. I will be selling that to iinvest in the MC Operator. The gun has been fine, downright reliable in fact, but I have not driven it hard or run it roughly, and that's my point. I need a gun that I can do that to, and know that it will stand up to the punishment and still maintain high accuracy and reliability standards. I buy serious guns as if my life depends on them...and you already know how that sentence ends.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Pat
Rosco Benson
11-25-10, 19:58
The "series II" Kimbers have an ill-conceived firing pin "safety" that is disengaged by depressing the grip safety. While this might be fine in theory, "timing" issues can cause a click when you expect (and need) a bang. This is bad ju-ju. Look elsewhere.
The Springfield Armory guns are devoid of this nonsense. The Marine Corps Operator or the TRP Operator would probably be your best choices at the price point you specify.
The Colt "rail gun" wouldn't be too bad either. It has the Series 80 firing pin "safety", but this arrangement is actuated by the trigger and is a safer bet than Kimber's reincarnation of the old "Schawrze" safety.
Of the choices, the TRP Operator would offer all of your desired attributes. The current production "half-rail" one would be your best choice IMO.
Rosco
find a used les baer for around 1200 and get a dawson rail added to the frame you'd get top quality and not have the worries inherent in a budget gun. and unlike sa made all in the USA
I should have known this would happen...
So now that I've been doing product research on the Springfields, I'm SORELY tempted to sell a few more old rifles and get a TRP 1911. It looks like what I'd pay for a TRP would be less than what I'd spend to bring other aspects (mag well work, lighter trigger, et al.) to a MC Operator. You guys are killing me...:p
Now to find one in stock somewhere.
Pat
The TRP is the closest thing to the $2,200+ handguns without getting into that $$range. If you can find the MC operator, they are awesome too. The only big difference I noticed that was not obvious, was the trigger not quite as good on the MC. But still its a good 1911 trigger.
MC has no magwell, but has a rail..............either are great. The only problem is finding the MC operator. You will probably have to order one elsewhere. The TRP's are more plentiful and can be found for $1,300 to $1,500. Go buy one!
...And that is pretty much what I'm trying to avoid!
I currently have a Taurus PT1911 with only c.500 rounds through it. I will be selling that to iinvest in the MC Operator. The gun has been fine, downright reliable in fact, but I have not driven it hard or run it roughly, and that's my point. I need a gun that I can do that to, and know that it will stand up to the punishment and still maintain high accuracy and reliability standards. I buy serious guns as if my life depends on them...and you already know how that sentence ends.
Thanks for the suggestions,
Pat
That's cool. I am a what floats your boat kind of guy.
Obviously, I do not worry what people say as I proudly own 14 Taurus hg's (not the only make I own). But consider the things you require from the pistol you want...and, it will be a secondary hd weapon. This is sensible to me: I (you) already own the Taurus (if yours doesn't have the rail, then this post will not be much good), I do not have to purchase a new gun after taking a huge hit on a 1911 with not so good resale value, beveled mag well is easy and cheap, You Tube is plastered with people trying to break the mf and failing (check out Nelson Taurus PT 1911, for starters, and he is using reloads with no gloves and is on a massive dose of adrenaline), lifetime warranty if it does break, and you could use the money saved to buy your wife or girl a cool gift and she will be more understanding of your gun habit (if your job requires you to carry, then requirement/habit).
I am not trying to sell you the Taurus. I finally made a decision on a 1911 for my wife; it is a Colt...COLT. But I have the Taurus, and it works great. Not one failure of any kind with 1260 rds so far (this amount does NOT test a gun's reliability), but I am watching for the poa/poi to drop; has not happened yet. If you get the Springfield, great. I am happy for anyone who gets a new gun, and they are happy with it, especially the Springfield. It is a fine piece. I am merely trying to add some "sensible" to your sensible post.
If you are going to sell for sure, would you consider giving the Taurus a hard run, first, and let some of us know how it went? It will not affect the resale value of that particular gun.
I noticed on this site www.m1911.org/ezine/SAMCOperator.htm that with the ammo tests, the WWB held some of the best groups. Just a tidbit of info since this ammo is inexpensive and fairly clean.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64914, buying a nice used firearm is sensible, buying Taurus is not.
Wheelhouse
12-06-10, 19:56
Don't rule out finding a used TRP.
Last week I called my favorite gun store to get info. on ordering a TRP. I've had a crush on these for a long time. Then they tell me they also have a used TRP that just came in. The timing couldn't have been better. I've never seen a used TRP there before. They held it for me, went to look at it, and took it home. Just over $900. A 2005 w/ not a scratch on it, I would bet less than 500 rds. have been through it. Couldn't be happier. Awesome gun for the money. Next day ran 300 rds. through it w/ no issues.
Also have a SA Lightweight Champion Operator that has been flawless and is great to carry.
You might want to consider reading some of Hilton Yam's articles at 10-8 performance. He talks about what are some of the ways to turn a regular old 1911 from a good fighting gun into a great fighting gun. Some of the things you want to do can be done aftermarket for pretty cheap, to include the rail.
Not saying to go one way or the other. The Operators are wonderful pistols. But there are other options as well.
Kentucky Cop
12-06-10, 22:16
Just saw this. If any you are LEO's you may wanna take a look. They have the MC Operator for 1k. For an extra $300 you can get a TRP. Interesting....
http://www.phoenixlawenforcement.com/shop/index.php?cPath=24_39_86
KC
I like the STI Duty One for the money it gives the most for the least.
We did this set for top sniper winners in 2009.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/STI%20SNIPER%20COMP%20DUTY%20ONE%2009/027-1.jpg
Just saw this. If any you are LEO's you may wanna take a look. They have the MC Operator for 1k. For an extra $300 you can get a TRP. Interesting....
http://www.phoenixlawenforcement.com/shop/index.php?cPath=24_39_86
KC
Thanks KC!
I called and they're out of stock, like everyone else. These are definitely in demand.
Pat
Kentucky Cop
12-07-10, 16:15
Pat, I also have a craving for a 1911. As a LEO, I have to carry a Glock but always wanted a beast.
I will be going with a TRP, black when the day comes. A close second would be a MC Operator but I hate the color so I would have to have it Armor coated in black or whatever they call the finish. Check buds or even the dreaded gunbroker. You will find one.....
Take a look at the Colt XSE rail guns also. Not to shabby for the money
KC
I suggest a MC operator. Add skate tape to the front strap, vice checkering.
What is wrong with a "Mil Spec" SA? Or a Taurus, for that matter? I'm not an "operator" and am considering a 1911, because I once had one and liked it (please kick my ass for getting rid of it); $35 in 1967 + everything I could get from the DCM to upgrade it. Also had a High Power and a Ruger P89 which I didn't like. The pistol probably won't ever reach 3K rounds. Most of my practice will be with an good airsoft or similar feeling .22rf.
I don't compete, just want to be somewhat proficient in case the SHTF or somebody comes uninvited in the middle of the night. I won't be seriously using the pistol; my primary weapon is a BCM 16" middie. Current handgun is a Colt Trooper MKIII .357. Long range a bolt 6.5-06 (wish I'd just got a .270).
The OP wants a 1913 rail, hence the recommendations for the "operator" models.
friendlyfireisnt
12-07-10, 22:49
What is wrong with a "Mil Spec" SA? Or a Taurus, for that matter?
I've had both. The Taurus is/was a POS and had constant feeding and extraction issues. I had it repaired under warranty, and sold it (and disclosed the problems to the buyer).
The Springfield Mil-Spec, which to be fair isn't exactly a factory SA gun as it's been worked over a bit prior to me getting it. It's been flawless thus far with every ammo and magazine combo I have fed it.
That said, it doesn't meet the requirements the OP has set forth, and by the time that he adds all those features, it won't really be a saving.
Exactly what Friendlyfireisnt said.
The rail requirement is non-negotiable. I need this to be an all-conditions fighting pistol. I find the idea of buying a quality base model and modifying it over time (a la Hilton Yam) to be interesting, but I'd rather go the direct route and spend the money up front and get what I want right out of the gate. While I'm willing to pay the asking price for a TRP, I sure can't afford a custom job, at least at the rates I've seen listed/had quoted. I'm not bothered by that, and feel confident that the TRP will fit perfectly. I'm also not in a hurry, so I'm willing to wait patiently in the meantime.
Pat
Not to start any shit, but I thought I would relay MY experience(s) with a SA TRP. I purchased the TRP recently and began the task of vetting it...Around 500 rounds, no issues until then ran like a champ and more accurate than I can shoot, the extractor broke on the 1st round of a steel match...Highly disappointed and in mild state of shock I pondered the meaning of life...Sent the weapon back to SA where it was returned approximately two weeks later, food for thought...Upon its return I continued the vetting process and within the 1st 100 rounds it had two FTEs and a double feed. I had a rifle instructor course coming up and so I decided to take it as my secondary to "see how it goes"...Apparently when I cleaned it prior to the class, the non-pinned ejector fell the hell out...I didn't notice the gaping hole in the frame effectively reducing it to a single shot pipe wrench...When I contacted SA they informed me that they don't pin the ejectors...They offered me a new ejector which I could "lock tite in" or I could send it back and they would pin a new one in place. The lady on the phone said that the pin would "eliminate that from occurring again"...SO, that begged the question, why don't you just do that to them in the 1st place? She had lost her sense of humor at that point and informed me that my shipping label was on the way...If you are still in the market for a TRP, I have one I'll off load...
Stay Safe
Para Ordanance has many different options in all the price ranges and is a very reliable shooter.:D
While not a full custom job, a fair bit of budget modification can be done to an MC Operator to get it up to a better spec - an S&A Magwell, Undercut/Textured Frontstrap, and reliability work. These exist as packages from different smiths (MARS being my first choice on that particular pairing), and end up pretty close to the TRP in price if you start out with a used one.
Kentucky Cop
12-08-10, 22:31
While not a full custom job, a fair bit of budget modification can be done to an MC Operator to get it up to a better spec - an S&A Magwell, Undercut/Textured Frontstrap, and reliability work. These exist as packages from different smiths (MARS being my first choice on that particular pairing), and end up pretty close to the TRP in price if you start out with a used one.
Hmmm. Are you better off buying a TRP new or a used MC Operator then sending it off to the custom shop to bring it up to TRP specs money wise? Curious.....
KC
Hmmm. Are you better off buying a TRP new or a used MC Operator then sending it off to the custom shop to bring it up to TRP specs money wise? Curious.....
KC
Exactly what I'm wondering, too.
Another question would be is it possible to bring an MC Operator up to the level of a TRP, and all of it's stock elements? Just wondering.
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