How do you balance your hobbies and firearms training? [Archive]

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teamacacia

11-22-10, 18:47

I have two hobbies that are both time-consuming and cash-consuming and they are golf and guns/shooting. I'd just like to know how y'all balance your hobbies (both time and money-wise) as I am having a bit of a difficult time deciding what to do...
I pay for a local golf club membership so I really need to play a minimum of once per week and go to the range 1-2x/week just to pay for itself. I'm pretty good at the game but, much like shooting, it takes practice to stay on top of it. My concern is if I spend the time to keep my golf game up that my shooting skills will suffer and that could potentially be a bad deal in the unlikely event of an assault or self defense situation. How much time on a daily (or more likely weekly) basis should be sufficient for the average Joe to keep up his/her shooting skills? My current gun range time is 1-2x/month for 2-3 hours each session. Outside of the range, I don't really do much dry-firing, etc

pilotguyo540

11-22-10, 18:59

Get rid of the woman and your problem is solved!:sarcastic:

Chameleox

11-22-10, 19:04

Helps when your hobby is also part of your job description.
I find that it makes it easier if I have a more ummm... constructive hobby to balance the shooting.
Try gardening or cooking. Not too expensive, and in the case of cooking, necessary, so why not make it fun?

mark5pt56

11-22-10, 19:59

Time management is a huge factor with the multitude of activities alot of folks have to(or want to) do.

I would recommend not being "tied" to having to attend some place "x" times a week or month to make the membership worth while. I don't play golf, so I can't comment on that aspect. Shooting is another story. There are so many disciplines involved so you have to keep it focused on what you deem the most important if you like to do different things and have limited time and/or budget.

Since you want to keep it to defensive shooting, that makes it easier. Try to do as much dry at home as you can, get some dummy rounds to make it easier. Draws, reloads, malfunctions, dry fires, etc can be worked on at home and hit the range to work on specific drills.

One drill you could do after static dry fire is to practice a draw from concealment as you move and dry fire on a target. Try a two handed draw, strong hand only and even weak hand only. You can somewhat get a good idea on a timed first round hit by using a timer and set a par time. (On the buzzer, draw and dry fire onto a target, getting the "click" before the par time buzzer)Be honest with yourself on this and don't develop bad habits for th esake of beating the clock, do this drill later after you have refined the draw process. (tip-set countdown to random to have a better true reaction to the stimulus)

Just a start, let your imagination go to work and do things with a purpose, make a plan for your range trip and depending on what you want/need to do there may not be as long. Sometimes it may be counter-productive to "over train" if you've hit your goals and your attention span is tanked, no need to stay longer just because.

For live fire, be careful with "rehearsed" drills. And do not waste rounds by winging them into the dirt and not aiming for the sake of getting a quick first shot draw or reload, etc. Always use a target and make it relative to what you are trying to accomplish. Work with a buddy on certain things such as malfunctions or emergency(slide lock) reloads. Have him/her load the mag going into your gun so it's a surprise to you when it locks back or goes "click" After the reload, fire more than one or two also to identify a potential grip problem. Some will not aquire a proper grip if they know they will only be firing one round or even two, same with a single shot draw versus a multi shot drill such as a Bill Drill.

Mark

YVK

11-22-10, 20:51

I try to allocate specific amount of time to my "extra-curricular" activities, and stick to it. Reality is that, for professionally busy person with wide range of interests that require time [and money], you either have to compromise and be as good as you can get within set limits, or prioritize and sacrifice something. I choose to be "well-rounded", which is self-aggrandizing way of saying that I am not good at anyting in particular:D.
So, I work out at gym twice a week and swim twice a week. I also do a shorter workout at home twice a week. I usually manage to squeeze one, sometimes even two, shooting sessions a week - but mine are short on purpose. I almost never go beyond 150 rounds and/or 30-40 min. I find that shorter frequent sessions go longer way in not allowing my skills to degenerate. Having relatively rigid schedule and making effort to stick with it goes a long way. The above stuff is what I do routinely, and more often than not I have time to play some tennis, or ski, or go out, or dry-fire...
Obviously, logistics play a big role here. I barely have to do any driving, for example, to get all of that done - traffic here is nothing comparing to large metropolitan areas. My gym is 10 min away, my range is 15-20, ski slopes - 35 min etc. There is something to be said about choice of residence according to lifestyle preferences.
I would say that if you look at firearm proficiency from standpoint of self defence, then, given a seriousness of intention it would make sense to get a head start there, at [temporary] expense of other activities. I've spent a good deal of time in last few years trying to get away from dilettante level, before resuming my other hobbies.

brian556

11-23-10, 06:30

I also sink tons of money trying to keep my boat alive so Im thinking Im gonna kill two birds by heading offshore and shooting many holes in my vessel then paddle back in the life raft. Problem solved.
But to seriously answer your question all though I know its not as fun, If you did dry fire drills everyday you would see that your shooting actually improves even if your not burning through cases of ammo a week. The best part is you can do it in your house or backyard and doesn't cost anything. Just a thought

R Moran

11-23-10, 07:53

Wow, you guys really are good at time managment, I suck. Of course 14hr work days don't help.

I have no other hobby, beside shooting, and the gym. I still sometimes can't find the time to get to the range.

Part of that, is the range is 30mins away, and it takes me a good 15- 30mins to load the truck with everything I'll want to take to the range, and unload.

Then I have to catch up on my sitting around time.

When I lived around the corner from an indoor range, I could get a quick 1-200 rounds in easy, not so much anymore.

Anyway, my goal is to get to the range once on a break, I work 4 days on 4 days off, if I have no OT, sometimes thats just not in the picture.
Daily life, running errands, laundry, cleaning, this web site, all take up a lot of time.

One thing I don't want to do, is make my hobby feel like work, then you won't wanna go. So if you miss a day, don't sweat it.

Bob

rob_s

11-23-10, 08:04

I don't have any other hobbies and I especially hate golf. I've worked on finding ways to involve the family in the shooting sports so I can train and get family time all at once.

I know a lot of people that have replaced golf with IDPA or USPSA. Makes a lot of sense to me. Lots of standing around socializing while waiting for momentary bursts of activity in a competitive environment but one has a productive outcome while the other is a complete waste of time.

WillBrink

11-23-10, 08:21

Get rid of the woman and your problem is solved!:sarcastic:

Most expensive hobby there is. :eek:

Robb Jensen

11-23-10, 08:28

Helps when your hobby is also part of your job description.

Ding Ding Ding WINNAR!

I was injured pretty bad at work in 2004 and had to leave that job (severe neck injury which required cervical neck fusion between C5-C7). After a year that employer settled with me since I couldn't return to work in their time frame.

"Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life."--Confucius

So that's what I did and went to work in the firearms industry.

120mm

11-23-10, 08:39

rob_s

11-23-10, 08:41

jasonhgross

11-23-10, 08:57

Robb Jensen

11-23-10, 09:03

I agree whoe-heartedly with the golf analysis. At least with shooting I feel that its practice for defending my family and friends, so it has some real world bennefit. Weight training is just fun, keeps me fit, and will probably keep me on the planet longer given the bennefits to circulatory system and bone density along with the obvious muscular growth.

I can see the similarities in golf vs. rifle shooting. You're trying to do similar things.
With that said there's no way I could afford golf and shooting.
I view golf courses as perfectly good waste of land that could be a nice rifle range.

The gym is now my second hobby, weights and cardio (lost 15lbs since mid July 2010). It's a hell of a lot cheaper than shooting. My fitness club membership (for my wife and I is $70/mo).

LeonCarr

11-23-10, 10:03

Firearms training is my hobby. My other hobby is handloading so I can do firearms training :).

Golf is the biggest waste of time there is. I was asked once why I didn't play golf. My answer was because I know what happens when golf clubs are brought to a gunfight.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

hammonje

11-23-10, 10:21

Do what is most pleasureable to you and hits your mental reset button. Who on earth is going to spend their limited freetime on something out of fear???? I gotta train up....for what??? A home invasion....you're already way prepared. If you need more than 30 rounds you are in the shit.

Do what you feel is most fun. You don't need to practice every week to keep up your firearms skills. I have played golf a few times and could not get the hang of it. Not that it isn't fun....I just sucked. I like the firearms community and have made a lot of friends. Love the history behind my WWII/Korea/Vietnam Era rifles and shoot a lot of CMP stuff. That is the most fun for me, the folks are more laid back, and so that is what I do.

Life is short, have fun with it while you can.

jasonhgross

11-23-10, 11:20

hammonje

11-23-10, 11:38

I take that as a compliment from a herd mentality guy.

Guess what...if you had a mind you'd speak it with some clarity. Slinging insults at someone you don't know b/c you sit around and play soldier all day or try and spend time legitimizing it. If you are a soldier or LEO than cool....that is your life. If not then chill out and shut up. They should have a symbol by your avatar so we can identify who is legit and who is not. All these posers make me ill.

How about....I like to go to the range and shoot b/c it's a good time for once. Oh...I better train up b/c WWIII is going to break out tomorrow. Give that BS a rest would you. Stop legitimizing your need for a rifle. It's OK to like them b/c it looks cool or mean. It's a fine precision instrument. Firearms are fun to collect and are freakin' amazing. There is no need to legitimize the pleasure of them further.

I have an opinion on something I give it. At least I have the courage to be honest and not pre-filter my response to make sure it is OK by you.

High Desert

11-23-10, 12:00

It has aleady been said, but after attending training this summer, I finally understand why everyone brings up the dry fire practice sessions. I just get up a little earlier a couple of days a week, so I can practice while eveyone else is still asleep. It shows at the range.
Best Regards,
HD

R Moran

11-23-10, 12:08

Hammon,
Why did you join this site? If we are all of the "herd" mentality? did you look around, read a little to get the slant of this particular firearms board?

It is decidedly slanted towards the serious use of firearms, be that home, self defense, LEO, SWAT, .mil whatever.

If you own a gun, any gun, for the intention of protecting yourself, home, family, community, etc. You need to be proficient with it, period. That takes training and relevant practice. Its not playing Soldier.
Funny, playing Soldier is bad, but reading it, and declaring yourself competent is OK??

The USMC conducted studies, and determined that an individuals shooting skill had demonstrable loss after one week of no shooting/training. While life in general may preclude that sort of training regimen, it would lead one to believe that some sort of skill maintenance program is in order.

No one said owning guns for the pleasure of owning guns is bad, and I would say most of us, have more then a few "fun guns" in our possession. But, that's not what this forum is about.

So why do you come here and troll around, pontificating about how well trained and smarter you are then the rest of us?

I'm sure there are plenty of other firearms forums, populated with your "herd" for you to spout off on, and get validation from your "herd".
And make no mistake about it, you have a "herd" mentality also, its just not this "herd".

Bob

Surf

11-23-10, 13:02

Hobby? Hmmm......

- Full time job that calls for much more than 40 hours / week.
- Building my own custom home by myself, mostly weekends.
- A 4 year old in preschool, ballet and in an advanced learning course.
- A 6 year old in school, baseball, soccer, football, basketball, martial arts, etc...

What is this hobby thing of which we speak and who has time for one? Wish I had the time for one. I vaguely remember having a few of them. :(

As mentioned, it is a good thing that this is what I do all day, everyday. Besides being an active team member, I also take care of our firearms program, so I oversee the training, to T&E and procurement, to the weapons maintenance side of things for our division. This allows me a few days per week of shooting time so I can get my fix. Hard to call something work when you enjoy it so much, but it sure as heck chews up a lot of my time. Also the range is about 10 mins from home, but you will never see me there on a weekend.

I am not complaining however as I wouldn't change a thing. Well maybe I might like to have the house finished. :)

jasonhgross

11-23-10, 14:03

VMI-MO

11-23-10, 15:32

It is my job.

PJ

YVK

11-23-10, 22:29

God, I hate golf. What a gutless way to tell your spouse and family that you hate their guts and cannot stand to be around them.

This certainly seems to be the primary motivation of my neighbors that golf.

I agree whoe-heartedly with the golf analysis. At least with shooting I feel that its practice for defending my family and friends, so it has some real world bennefit. Weight training is just fun, keeps me fit, and will probably keep me on the planet longer given the bennefits to circulatory system and bone density along with the obvious muscular growth.

I don't give a damn about golf, and I respect everybody's right to have their own opinions, but really, dudes, why would you say such a derogatory thing? I know tons of people for whom golf is a family affair, with involvement from grandparents to grandchildren.
My realtor and his wife have a tradition of meeting their wedding anniversary on golf course, they just had their 32nd wedding golf shootout last Thursday; how's that for hating each others guts?

If you ever had an argument with an anti-gun person, you'd know how incredibly closed-minded those people are. You can hate golf on visceral level but, when you say shit about activity that a lot of good folks consider legit, you exhibit the same type of closed-mindedness.

Jasonhgross: it's been awhile since I look at literature professionally, but last I checked, weight training has not had any evidence in prolonging longevity or long-term quality of life; aerobic exercise, in contrast, has very strong and robust data. That's not to say don't lift, I do it three-four times a week, but if longevity is your goal, cardio is the answer.

Do what is most pleasureable to you and hits your mental reset button.

That would be sex :D, health and individual survival benefits of which are limited..

you're already way prepared. If you need more than 30 rounds you are in the shit.

I deal with life-threatening emergencies for living. I've trained for it many-many years, and, while I almost always win, the only reason for that is because I have trained for those years. But... my first one, second one, third one etc. - somebody else, with many years of training themselves, was by my side backing me up. This will not be the case in situation of self- or home-defense for you and me, so no, we're not way prepared. Number of rounds you have is nearly irrelevant.
No, I don't live in paranoia; I am simply honest in assessment how vulnerable I and my house are against well planned attack by motivated criminals.
Yes, a lot of people with no training have successfully used firearms in protecting themselves. What you do is your choice, but your priorities are yours only.

You don't need to practice every week to keep up your firearms skills.

Yes, if you have no skills no lose.

I thought the intent of this thread was how to best combine multiple hobbies and serious defense-oriented training and if it is at all possible; in that light, posts like "that's what I do for living" aren't really helpful, are they?

120mm

11-24-10, 09:07

I just can't work of a give a shit on someone's Constitutional Right to play ****ing golf.

As far as "playing soldier", I took that as a compliment. After all, I'm not a "real soldier", but just like "war as play". Of course, "war as play" is no fun unless the war is real...

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. I've seen my wife and family for just a few weeks in the last couple years, and I open an e-mail where some dude is bitching about balancing his social calendar.

This thread is gay.

jasonhgross

11-24-10, 10:47

Jasonhgross: it's been awhile since I look at literature professionally, but last I checked, weight training has not had any evidence in prolonging longevity or long-term quality of life; aerobic exercise, in contrast, has very strong and robust data. That's not to say don't lift, I do it three-four times a week, but if longevity is your goal, cardio is the answer.

It depends how you define longevity. More and more weight training is proven to increase circulation, increase bone density, and burn calories. It also increases muscle mass. So if you want to have good bones, good circulation, and maintain muscle as you age, weight training does in that way increase all the things that enable a person to both age and continue to be mobile and resilient to life's changes.
As for cardio capacity, they have shown that intense workouts of short duration work well to maintain cardio levels. I have seen numbers as low as minutes a week, used in sprint runs of 30 seconds a time. I have noticed that I have been able to maintain much of my cardio capacity with quick cardio workouts combined with high intensity (but still low impact) weight training workouts. Your mileage and metabolism may vary of course.

JSantoro

11-24-10, 13:20

I am having a bit of a difficult time deciding what to do...

This is easy.

At which venue are you less likely to see a grown-ass man wearing baboon-butt red plaid capri pants (they're freakin CAPRI PANTS, not knickers, Suzy!), a V-neck sweater-vest, and a gland-shaped hat with a fuzzy ball on top?

If you can't answer that in your head immediately, you have other questions that need attending to. :D

YVK

11-24-10, 13:55

It depends how you define longevity. More and more weight training is proven to increase circulation, increase bone density, and burn calories. It also increases muscle mass.

No argument on muscle mass, bone or calorie burn, but improved "circulation" is my pet peeve. It is all-inclusive term that, by virtue of being all-inclusive, has very little, if at all, meaning. Are we talking about increasing stroke volume of heart, or increasing elasticity of arteries, or preventing PVD, or recruiting collaterals, or improving venous and lymphatic outflow, or changing blood viscosity? All of the above are parts of circulation, lifting affects some but not others, and in context of cardiovascular (circulation) health aerobic exercise rules.

LOKNLOD

11-24-10, 14:09

This is easy.

At which venue are you less likely to see a grown-ass man wearing baboon-butt red plaid capri pants (they're freakin CAPRI PANTS, not knickers, Suzy!), a V-neck sweater-vest, and a gland-shaped hat with a fuzzy ball on top?

If you can't answer that in your head immediately, you have other questions that need attending to. :D

Oh shit, that's exactly how I was dressed when I shot with him last week...

WillBrink

11-24-10, 14:21

Jasonhgross: it's been awhile since I look at literature professionally, but last I checked, weight training has not had any evidence in prolonging longevity or long-term quality of life; aerobic exercise, in contrast, has very strong and robust data.

Aerobic exercise is highly overrated, while resistance training, underrated 'till recently, and there's plenty of data to support that:

Potential health-related benefits of resistance training.

Prev Med. 2001 Nov;33(5):503-13.

Winett RA, Carpinelli RN.

Center for Research in Health Behavior, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0436, USA. rswinett@vt.edu
Abstract

Public health guidelines primarily focus on the promotion of physical activity and steady-state aerobic exercise, which enhances cardiorespiratory fitness and has some impact on body composition.

However, research demonstrates that resistance exercise training has profound effects on the musculoskeletal system, contributes to the maintenance of functional abilities, and prevents osteoporosis, sarcopenia, lower-back pain, and other disabilities.

More recent seminal research demonstrates that resistance training may positively affect risk factors such as insulin resistance, resting metabolic rate, glucose metabolism, blood pressure, body fat, and gastrointestinal transit time, which are associated with diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Research also indicates that virtually all the benefits of resistance training are likely to be obtained in two 15- to 20-min training sessions a week.Sensible resistance training involves precise controlled movements for each major muscle group and does not require the use of very heavy resistance.

Along with brief prescriptive steady-state aerobic exercise, resistance training should be a central component of public health promotion programs.
_____________

The person who coined the term "aerobics" Dr Cooper, changed his recs to include resistance training, and altered the Cooper Clinic to involve more resistance training.

Dr Westcott, who did much of the early research with older people and resistance training, has additional comments on the above:

" A new article published by the American College of Sports Medicine advocates for a public health mandate for resistance training.The authors of this excellent, research-based position paper correctly state that, “Compared to aerobic training, resistance training has received far less attention as a prescription for general health. However, resistance training is as effective as aerobic training in lowering risk for cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and other diseases. There is a clear ability of resistance training, in contrast to aerobic training, to promote gains, maintenance, or slow the loss of skeletal muscle mass and strength.”

Cont:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/goodlife/mysource/boomers/x1032439962/Wayne-L-Westcott-Dont-resist-beneficial-training

Depending on how tight my time frame was, I'd take resistance training over aerobics any time.

YVK

11-24-10, 18:06

Aerobic exercise is highly overrated, while resistance training, underrated 'till recently, and there's plenty of data to support that:

Potential health-related benefits of resistance training.

Prev Med. 2001 Nov;33(5):503-13.

Winett RA, Carpinelli RN.

Center for Research in Health Behavior, Blacksburg, Virginia 24061-0436, USA. rswinett@vt.edu
Abstract

Public health guidelines primarily focus on the promotion of physical activity and steady-state aerobic exercise, which enhances cardiorespiratory fitness and has some impact on body composition.

However, research demonstrates that resistance exercise training has profound effects on the musculoskeletal system, contributes to the maintenance of functional abilities, and prevents osteoporosis, sarcopenia, lower-back pain, and other disabilities.

More recent seminal research demonstrates that resistance training may positively affect risk factors such as insulin resistance, resting metabolic rate, glucose metabolism, blood pressure, body fat, and gastrointestinal transit time, which are associated with diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Research also indicates that virtually all the benefits of resistance training are likely to be obtained in two 15- to 20-min training sessions a week.Sensible resistance training involves precise controlled movements for each major muscle group and does not require the use of very heavy resistance.

Along with brief prescriptive steady-state aerobic exercise, resistance training should be a central component of public health promotion programs.
_____________

The person who coined the term "aerobics" Dr Cooper, changed his recs to include resistance training, and altered the Cooper Clinic to involve more resistance training.

Dr Westcott, who did much of the early research with older people and resistance training, has additional comments on the above:

" A new article published by the American College of Sports Medicine advocates for a public health mandate for resistance training.The authors of this excellent, research-based position paper correctly state that, “Compared to aerobic training, resistance training has received far less attention as a prescription for general health. However, resistance training is as effective as aerobic training in lowering risk for cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and other diseases. There is a clear ability of resistance training, in contrast to aerobic training, to promote gains, maintenance, or slow the loss of skeletal muscle mass and strength.”

Cont:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/goodlife/mysource/boomers/x1032439962/Wayne-L-Westcott-Dont-resist-beneficial-training

Depending on how tight my time frame was, I'd take resistance training over aerobics any time.

First, I hope we all would agree that nobody should antagonize aerobic vs. resistance training; they both should be a part of training regimen.

Second, a quality of evidence for resistance training benefits has not come close to strength of data required to make assertive statements. What you posted is a great example of evidentiary basis for resistance training - solid physiologic plausibility, some non-comparative data, some comparative data against unknown control, no hard outcomes data. Folks who publish such stuff recognize limits of their data as evidenced by two words I highlighted in your post - "potential health benefits" and "may positively affect risk factors". Until there is a high-quality, hopefully randomized and blinded study, with good size groups, meaningful controls, adequate follow-up, and important end-points, the scientific evidence that exists so far falls into category of "hypothesis-generating".

There is nothing "hypothesis-generating" about 2% annual all-cause mortality reduction per one additional MET achieved on standard Bruce protocol, irrespective of presence or absence of underlying heart disease, with 6 years of follow-up and research methology strict enough to be published in world's most prestigious medical journal.
While one practitioner's experience is considered to be an anecdotal from scientific standpoint, my personal experience mirrors above data. In my experience, guys who go faster and longer do better than guys who lift more. Guys who go faster and longer and lift more do the best.

WillBrink

11-24-10, 18:53

First, I hope we all would agree that nobody should antagonize aerobic vs. resistance training; they both should be a part of training regimen.

Of course. ;)

Second, a quality of evidence for resistance training benefits has not come close to strength of data required to make assertive statements. What you posted is a great example of evidentiary basis for resistance training - solid physiologic plausibility, some non-comparative data, some comparative data against unknown control, no hard outcomes data. Folks who publish such stuff recognize limits of their data as evidenced by two words I highlighted in your post - "potential health benefits" and "may positively affect risk factors". Until there is a high-quality, hopefully randomized and blinded study, with good size groups, meaningful controls, adequate follow-up, and important end-points, the scientific evidence that exists so far falls into category of "hypothesis-generating".

I'm not sure how much of the actual recent primary data you have gone through, but the bulk of the data is more then sufficient to make assertive statements regarding the effects of resistance training on a wide range of health related issues resistance training will benefit, that aerobics can't.

There is nothing "hypothesis-generating" about 2% annual all-cause mortality reduction per one additional MET achieved on standard Bruce protocol, irrespective of presence or absence of underlying heart disease, with 6 years of follow-up and research methology strict enough to be published in world's most prestigious medical journal.
While one practitioner's experience is considered to be an anecdotal from scientific standpoint, my personal experience mirrors above data. In my experience, guys who go faster and longer do better than guys who lift more. Guys who go faster and longer and lift more do the best.

I can't disagree with that as it points to a balanced approach to fitness as being best. At the same time, my issue was only to make clear that data continues to grew showing resistance training has been traditionally under valued while aerobics, overvalued in my opinion, and I have no doubts at all resistance training will be considered an essential component to and health and well being. For example, the CDC guide to resistance training with a list of benefits:

http://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/growingstronger/why/index.html

The CDC is not an org generally taken to making such assertions on poor data that are at best hypothesis-generating before they make such recommendations.

YVK

11-24-10, 21:43

I'm not sure how much of the actual recent primary data you have gone through, but the bulk of the data is more then sufficient to make assertive statements regarding the effects of resistance training on a wide range of health related issues resistance training will benefit, that aerobics can't.

I've scanned my usual resources and could find much comparative data favoring resistance over aerobics, outside of muscle mass and djd - although djd data wasn't comparative.
The best diabetes data favors combined approach, but, in isolation, aerobic beat resistance. In PVD, resistance didn't help at all. In CV mortality reduction (CAD, CHF) the aerobic has the best data, resistance is questionable.
If you have any links to source data handy, I'd appreciate them.

I have no doubts at all resistance training will be considered an essential component to and health and well being

It already is, at least, in theory. Most guidelines I've seen recommend incorporation of resistance training. As adjunct to aerobic:p, at least, in CV prevention and rehab.

The CDC is not an org generally taken to making such assertions on poor data that are at best hypothesis-generating before they make such recommendations.

:D:D:D
Of course, they use lousy data all the time. You do remember their masterful study on health risk of firearms to society in general, and youth in particular, with youth group extended to age of 24?

Reality is that every med society puts out a bunch of recs based on low-quality data, because it could be the only existing data. The better societies actually annotate their recs by level of evidence. If you look at ACC statements, for example, the highest level A is reserved to recs backed up by multiple randomized trial. B goes for single randomized trial data or nonrandomized data. C is everything else. So, when I say assertive statements, I mean backed up by level A evidence, or at least one randomized trial.

If you look very critically at your link and statements they have put there, you'll first notice it is not annotated by level of evidence. Second, you'll notice that all benefits are confined to symptom control, and those that inch their way into true risk reduction (glucose control, weight reduction) fall short of stating that final outcomes are improved via resistance training. I simply don't think that such data exist.
I do not want to diminish importance of symptom control and attendant quality of life, but if we return to initial context of this thread - time management - best quality hard outcomes current data suggests that precious time needs to be spent first on aerobic, and then on resistance. A huge caveat in my statement is that best quality data is derived from people already affected by CV disease, diabetes etc., an its applicablility to healthy population has been shown in not too many studies - we tend to study sick people more often.

WillBrink

11-25-10, 11:36

I simply don't think that such data exist.
I do not want to diminish importance of symptom control and attendant quality of life, but if we return to initial context of this thread - time management - best quality hard outcomes current data suggests that precious time needs to be spent first on aerobic, and then on resistance. A huge caveat in my statement is that best quality data is derived from people already affected by CV disease, diabetes etc., an its applicablility to healthy population has been shown in not too many studies - we tend to study sick people more often.

While I appreciate your (obviously) well informed and educated opinion, I don't agree with the overall conclusions. It's moot anyway, as we both agree a combination of both is best practices for over health/fitness/well being without side discussions of specific populations etc.

For me, if given limited time, I'd take the resistance training*, and I always encourage people to incorporate it if they have been aerobic focused for long periods of time, and or, are just starting out on some form of program, which again, I bet we are in agreement on.

* = I'd alternate between days of higher reps/short rest periods (using approx 60-70& 1RM) using exercises that use the most amount of LBM for overall conditioning effects with workouts that used higher resistance (80% 1RM and above) and longer rest time between exercises if say I had a max of 2-3 days per week and 30 mins to do it.

msap

11-29-10, 16:47

I don't have any hobbies. I work 40+ hours a week LE. I spend my off time with my girls and my wife. Free time is spent working out and shooting when money and time allow. Rockstar lifestyle huh...

tuck

12-02-10, 12:50

I have entirely too many hobbies... I do my best to keep up on shooting, but sometimes it has to take a backseat to hand loading, snow/wakeboarding, my Buell, my Land Rover, or anything else that catches my interest.

I try to get out and shoot at least once every few weeks, and usually when I do I spend the most time behind my .308 bolt gun with my latest and greatest handload. I'd like to dedicate more time to my handguns, and my carbines, but honestly I like shooting long range more.

tradja

12-02-10, 13:27

teamacacia, in your case both are sports, and I would propose that when pursued beyond a basic level both are relatively physical sports. The logistics and financial hurdles you describe are real, but don't think that pursuing one sport will necessarily lead to the detriment of the other. The fitness, flexibility, and physical coordination you gain from golf will contribute to your shooting.

Similarly, my two main hobbies right now are fitness and shooting/reloading. In fact, I'm inside right now warming up my hands (read: "procrastinating") before loading up the rounds I need for a local match on Saturday. But I run into your challenge all the time: I have two hours before dark. Do I run or go to the range? One of these days, I'm going to run to the range. :)

At my last carbine class, we did a lot of kneeling and prone positions (on concrete), with the instructor focusing a bit on rapidly moving between positions. The "tactical spare tire" guys were having a hell of a time keeping up, and perhaps were not able to focus as much on the instruction. As an aside, I came to appreciate the light weight of my modest, relatively K.I.S.S. rig during this exercise.

In that case, my "other" hobby greatly contributed to my ability to pursue and enjoy shooting.

As far as money, selling an assortment of used holsters, tactical nylon, high-end outdoor gear, books and other hobby items on eBay/forums funds my shooting/reloading and is an enjoyable hobby in itself.

dookie1481

12-02-10, 13:33

I love the derogatory golf comments.

I'm sure there is a golf forum somewhere where they are discussing how gun people are a bunch of fat, white xenophobes.

Jay

tradja

12-02-10, 14:33

I love the derogatory golf comments.

I'm sure there is a golf forum somewhere where they are discussing how gun people are a bunch of fat, white xenophobes.

Jay

I don't golf (did in high school, and worked at a golf course). Golf is legit. I don't get the golf comments either, but whatever.
As an aside, I've seen plenty of FWX at the gun counter AND on the links. :shrug: Interestingly, I see more FWX at the counter and far fewer on the line.

This is awesome, and apt:

I know a lot of people that have replaced golf with IDPA or USPSA. Makes a lot of sense to me. Lots of standing around socializing while waiting for momentary bursts of activity in a competitive environment but one has a productive outcome while the other is a complete waste of time. :D

QuickStrike

12-11-10, 15:31

I try to balance my active hobbies with calmer ones. So shooting, lifting and bag-work vs. drawing, writing.

When I get burned out from one I switch.

After flailing around and lifting = tired. So get food/protein and chill out doodling and workin' on that novel. :sarcastic:

After drawing = physically bored. Screw arts and crafts, I want to break shit!

Keeps me interested and stimulates both the body and brain. Did I mention that I have a short attention span? :o

Oh and then there's work and school.... So I'd be lucky if I did one of the above on any given day.

Alpha Sierra

12-11-10, 15:47

RogerinTPA

12-11-10, 16:20

My hobbies are: Firearms and Firearms training, so it is properly balanced. ;)

jmart

12-11-10, 16:26

When you get behind a slow group, shoot 'em.