China & Russia dump the American Dollar

[variablebinary]

So...How's that globalism, fiat currency, and exporting American jobs working for us?

China and Russia will engage in direct trade in their native currencies.

Notice how the commies are always eager to weaken the USA someway somehow.



http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11/24/content_11599087.htm

China, Russia quit dollar
By Su Qiang and Li Xiaokun (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-11-24 08:02

St. Petersburg, Russia - China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday

[arizonaranchman]

I sense we're currently living in the calm before a terrible storm, perhaps the worst one in this nation's history. It seems like few people comprehend the peril we are in ref the Dollar and it's impending meltdown.

[chadbag]

So...How's that globalism, fiat currency, and exporting American jobs working for us?


This has nothing to do with the above.




China and Russia will engage in direct trade in their native currencies.

Notice how the commies are always eager to weaken the USA someway somehow.

This does little to weaken the USA, at least in the short term. Of course, the huge govt debt will be harder and harder to support if the defacto dollar standard goes away so in the long term, if lots of these deals happen, this could make it hard to sustain debt for the country. (no commentary supplied on that)

[Business_Casual]

I sense we're currently living in the calm before a terrible storm, perhaps the worst one in this nation's history. It seems like few people comprehend the peril we are in ref the Dollar and it's impending meltdown.

A sensible Federal budget and a sensible Fed Chairman could fix it in a couple of years, but something has to be done.

B_C

[Rider79]

A sensible Federal budget and a sensible Fed Chairman could fix it in a couple of years, but something has to be done.

B_C

Your common sense has no place here, sir.

[YVK]

China and Russia will engage in direct trade in their native currencies.

Notice how the commies are always eager to weaken the USA someway somehow.



Let me get it straight: two independent countries decide to use a direct exchange rate between their currencies for trade, and that's a problem, or conspiracy against US?
I always thought that sovereign countries have full right to use their own money for trade, not the currency of a third country...

[Business_Casual]

Let me get it straight: two independent countries decide to use a direct exchange rate between their currencies for trade, and that's a problem, or conspiracy against US?
I always thought that sovereign countries have full right to use their own money for trade, not the currency of a third country...

It's a problem because they aren't using the dollar as their reserve currency. It means they'll have less demand for dollars. I think it is a not so subtle **** you for the Fed's recent QE2 - which devalued the dollars the Chinese and Russians already had in their current accounts. There is serious damage being done to our international standing by the current crop of idiots in charge.

B_C

[YVK]

BC, thanks, I do understand that; my issue was with what I perceived as OP's dismay with Russia's and China'a action as if foreign countries were obligated to use US currency for trade.

Their reaction is expected. I don't know anything about China, but Russians - on individual and governmental levels - have always believed in stability and buying power of US dollar, partly because of past strength of US economy, partly because rouble had no stability or buying power. With current devaluation of $, it is a matter of time before they change their "allegiance".

[chadbag]

It's a problem because they aren't using the dollar as their reserve currency.


Strictly this is not true. Neither Russia nor China have dumped the dollar as their greatest reserve holding etc. They just dumped it for their own inter-country trade between themselves, which is a drop in the bucket compared to their trade in dollars with other countries.

However, if this idea catches on it very well could lead to that. China has been agitating for a new international reserve currency standard.


It means they'll have less demand for dollars. I think it is a not so subtle **** you for the Fed's recent QE2 - which devalued the dollars the Chinese and Russians already had in their current accounts. There is serious damage being done to our international standing by the current crop of idiots in charge.

B_C

Over the long term it could be a problem and though it has actually been underway and announced for months, it is just being implemented. And I don't doubt that you are right that it was done as an F-U to the Fed and the US.

[VooDoo6Actual]

Russia, China et alia sense it as well & know the US is in trouble on multiple levels.

[Mac5.56]

I sense we're currently living in the calm before a terrible storm

Agreed


perhaps the worst one in this nation's history.

Disagreed. What is with Americans obsession with the statement "worst in our nations history". No offense man, but haven't you noticed that everything lately seems to get this statement attached? History has shown that this Nation has been through lots of really really bad things, why are we so eager to constantly assume that our current challenge is always the "worst" thing the country has ever been through? Is it an inflated sense of our own value to the history of the country or what?

[skyugo]

certainly a bad sign....

[BrianS]

History has shown that this Nation has been through lots of really really bad things, why are we so eager to constantly assume that our current challenge is always the "worst" thing the country has ever been through? Is it an inflated sense of our own value to the history of the country or what?

Agreed.

Frankly nothing could be worse than the American Civil War. Any worse than that and it's all over for the United States and truly will be the worst thing I guess.

[arizonaranchman]

Nothing has happened yet, and I hope it does not get as bad as some predictions that I've heard - such as a collapse of the dollar. This is something that's never happened before. Think about it for a minute... Your savings and retirement would vaporize, everything you've worked for - gone due to extreme inflation and the dollar diving to the level of being essentially worthless.

A $100,000 salary would barely be enough to feed your family on in a case of extreme inflation. This is what some predict due to our suicidal level of debt. This nation is by all definitions bankrupt. Several European nations are on the verge of economic collapse. This is now a world economy like it or not, so once the house of cards starts to go down we all go down to one degree or another. So far China has been buying our debt but they're becoming increasingly panicked at our oblivious Administration who keeps spending and printing more money by the trillions. Once China decides to refuse to prop us up by buying our debt we're screwed. They know this and know they'll go down with us, so hate us for what we've created here.

Now think of the millions who barely have anything to begin with. How are they going to survive when bread is $20 a loaf? Gas is $25 a gallon? A can of soup is $15? How long do you think it'll take before riots, etc? These morons riot over basketball games.

We have an administration that's actively driving us into the ground intentionally. Nobody can be this stupid. Every action of this administration is just about the worst you could take assuming you're trying to turn the economy around and save this nation from ruin. We have few factories left compared to the past, we build/make very little compared to what we used to. Factories and industry have left for other countries by and large thanks to our absurd labor laws, environmental idiots, etc.

I fear we face a nitemare ahead of us. All the conditions are there for a perect storm of disaster. I only hope that some how some way it just doesn't happen. Is what we face on par with the civil war or revolution? No of course not, but let the dollar drop to 10% or less of it's value and hold onto your butt cuz you'll have unrest and misery that you never imagined could happen in this country in the modern day.

This current generation is a bunch of drama queens. They have no clue what hard times are. I can only imagine how they'll handle it when faced with no more handouts from big brother, no more entitlements of any kind because the Fed has gone bankrupt, etc.

[Bubba FAL]

Anyone that wishes to know what's coming (unless our current course is significantly altered) only needs to look up "Weimar Republic", because that is what the goons in DC seem hell-bent on replicating in our country. Whether it's intentional or just stupidity, I cannot say, but either way, the end result will not be pretty.

[Mac5.56]

Nothing has happened yet, and I hope it does not get as bad as some predictions that I've heard - such as a collapse of the dollar. This is something that's never happened before. Think about it for a minute... Your savings and retirement would vaporize, everything you've worked for - gone due to extreme inflation and the dollar diving to the level of being essentially worthless.

A $100,000 salary would barely be enough to feed your family on in a case of extreme inflation. This is what some predict due to our suicidal level of debt. This nation is by all definitions bankrupt. Several European nations are on the verge of economic collapse. This is now a world economy like it or not, so once the house of cards starts to go down we all go down to one degree or another. So far China has been buying our debt but they're becoming increasingly panicked at our oblivious Administration who keeps spending and printing more money by the trillions. Once China decides to refuse to prop us up by buying our debt we're screwed. They know this and know they'll go down with us, so hate us for what we've created here.

Now think of the millions who barely have anything to begin with. How are they going to survive when bread is $20 a loaf? Gas is $25 a gallon? A can of soup is $15? How long do you think it'll take before riots, etc? These morons riot over basketball games.

We have an administration that's actively driving us into the ground intentionally. Nobody can be this stupid. Every action of this administration is just about the worst you could take assuming you're trying to turn the economy around and save this nation from ruin. We have few factories left compared to the past, we build/make very little compared to what we used to. Factories and industry have left for other countries by and large thanks to our absurd labor laws, environmental idiots, etc.

I fear we face a nitemare ahead of us. All the conditions are there for a perect storm of disaster. I only hope that some how some way it just doesn't happen. Is what we face on par with the civil war or revolution? No of course not, but let the dollar drop to 10% or less of it's value and hold onto your butt cuz you'll have unrest and misery that you never imagined could happen in this country in the modern day.

This current generation is a bunch of drama queens. They have no clue what hard times are. I can only imagine how they'll handle it when faced with no more handouts from big brother, no more entitlements of any kind because the Fed has gone bankrupt, etc.

I understand your fear, we all have it right now. On both the Right and the Left, we are all aware of this reality. But, 1. It wasn't this current President that started, or caused this problem. 2. It is as much our fault as it is our governments. 3. It still isn't the "worst thing that has ever happened to this nation."

Here is something that you should embrace: Your nation (and mine) has a very real possibility of going the way of the Soviet Union in the next 25 years. This is just a reality that you have to consider. We are overspending way beyond our GDP, and we aren't investing at home at all. While theorists (and blow hard reactionary idiots like Glen Beck) on both the right and the left will tell you a million solutions to stop the inevitable the only truth in the matter is that the problem comes purely from the fact that American's aren't willing to work for anything. We're lazy whining idiots that refuse to forge our own future. The only two things we're good at anymore are pointing the finger at other people in order to blame them for our problems, and buying useless crap that was made in a foreign country for a wage that all of us would laugh at if someone offered it to us.

So accept the fact that while your watching Fox News the world around you is falling apart. While your trying to figure out who to blame, there are billions of people on this planet that are figuring out how to live, and how to make a future. They are learning skills you and I haven't even been offered an opportunity to understand or utilize for our benefit as nation. So rather then sit and use reactionary statements, why don't you start to consider things you can do to improve both your current skills and your future ability to survive? Who needs a 100,000 dollar a year job if you have a relationship and partnership with people in your immediate community? How many farmers do you know? How many mechanics? Carpenters? And so on.

There is a very real possibility that this country could collapse, you could loose everything you ever thought about your future, but what are you actually doing to insure your survival?

[arizonaranchman]

Mac,

I agree with you. We phrase things differently, but what you just said I agree with. It's our own faults - apathy, greed, laziness and corrupt politicians have all combined to bring our downfall. Probably sooner than later. It's been slowly building for several decades, but the result is going to be an America we don't recognize. It will be America by name only after having squandered it all.

Sadly I see an ugly future ahead for this nation and a number of generations to come most likely. I don't have the answers, it's complex and it's happened over a period of generations. The causes involved and issues would take hours to discuss and that can't be done here.

Preparing? Yes, i'm doing what I can to prepare for what I believe will be difficult times.

Worst that's ever happened? Well in all the other past events regardless of how terrible, America survived in a recognizable form to carry on as a free nation. In this one that we face, I have some major doubts it will survive in any form that's acceptable to you and I - the one our Founders built and passed on to us. In that regard one must wonder if it's demise/collapse, however pitiful and grotesque, will end up having been the worst...

Let's all do our best to preserve something of what we were given, so that at least a seed of Liberty will survive in the ashes. One that maybe some day will flourish and bloom again.



I understand your fear, we all have it right now. On both the Right and the Left, we are all aware of this reality. But, 1. It wasn't this current President that started, or caused this problem. 2. It is as much our fault as it is our governments. 3. It still isn't the "worst thing that has ever happened to this nation."

Here is something that you should embrace: Your nation (and mine) has a very real possibility of going the way of the Soviet Union in the next 25 years. This is just a reality that you have to consider. We are overspending way beyond our GDP, and we aren't investing at home at all. While theorists (and blow hard reactionary idiots like Glen Beck) on both the right and the left will tell you a million solutions to stop the inevitable the only truth in the matter is that the problem comes purely from the fact that American's aren't willing to work for anything. We're lazy whining idiots that refuse to forge our own future. The only two things we're good at anymore are pointing the finger at other people in order to blame them for our problems, and buying useless crap that was made in a foreign country for a wage that all of us would laugh at if someone offered it to us.

So accept the fact that while your watching Fox News the world around you is falling apart. While your trying to figure out who to blame, there are billions of people on this planet that are figuring out how to live, and how to make a future. They are learning skills you and I haven't even been offered an opportunity to understand or utilize for our benefit as nation. So rather then sit and use reactionary statements, why don't you start to consider things you can do to improve both your current skills and your future ability to survive? Who needs a 100,000 dollar a year job if you have a relationship and partnership with people in your immediate community? How many farmers do you know? How many mechanics? Carpenters? And so on.

There is a very real possibility that this country could collapse, you could loose everything you ever thought about your future, but what are you actually doing to insure your survival?

[Business_Casual]

I understand your fear, we all have it right now. On both the Right and the Left, we are all aware of this reality. But, 1. It wasn't this current President that started, or caused this problem. 2. It is as much our fault as it is our governments. 3. It still isn't the "worst thing that has ever happened to this nation."


True - a lot of the problem was George Washington and Buchanan's out of control spending. Oh, wait. No it wasn't, it was Obama's.



Here is something that you should embrace: Your nation (and mine) has a very real possibility of going the way of the Soviet Union in the next 25 years. This is just a reality that you have to consider.

Seriously? This is scare mongering that would do Beck proud. We are on a course that could bring down the country, but it can be corrected.




We are overspending way beyond our GDP, and we aren't investing at home at all. While theorists (and blow hard reactionary idiots like Glen Beck) on both the right and the left will tell you a million solutions to stop the inevitable the only truth in the matter is that the problem comes purely from the fact that American's aren't willing to work for anything. We're lazy whining idiots that refuse to forge our own future. The only two things we're good at anymore are pointing the finger at other people in order to blame them for our problems, and buying useless crap that was made in a foreign country for a wage that all of us would laugh at if someone offered it to us.

So accept the fact that while your watching Fox News the world around you is falling apart. While your trying to figure out who to blame, there are billions of people on this planet that are figuring out how to live, and how to make a future. They are learning skills you and I haven't even been offered an opportunity to understand or utilize for our benefit as nation. So rather then sit and use reactionary statements, why don't you start to consider things you can do to improve both your current skills and your future ability to survive? Who needs a 100,000 dollar a year job if you have a relationship and partnership with people in your immediate community? How many farmers do you know? How many mechanics? Carpenters? And so on.

There is a very real possibility that this country could collapse, you could loose everything you ever thought about your future, but what are you actually doing to insure your survival?

[Business_Casual]

It is unlikely that knowing carpenters will do any good in the future economy. If it came to the point needing to know farmers to survive most of us will already be dead. This "apocalypse" thinking is fun but no longer practical in 2010.

B_C

[Left Sig]

I keep wondering where all these fears of hyper inflation are coming from. Even with all the "quantitative easing" and expansion of the money supply by the Fed, we do NOT have a situation of too much money chasing too few goods.

Quite the contrary, we have too many goods out there to be sold, and not enough people buying. Prices are coming down on discretionary items, but it is true that staple goods have gone up in price. Groceries are more expensive now because demand has gone up as people seek to save money by eating in instead of eating out.

There are two big reasons for this:

1) High unemployment and underemployment reducing the average citizen's buying power.

2) Banks are not lending as much (which is how "new" money is created in the first place). Even with record low interest rates, banks are sitting on cash and being very conservative. Economic analysis shows that even at zero percent, banks still won't lend that much due to risk of default. It would take a negative interest rate to get them to lend - meaning the Fed would have to pay the banks to take the money.

All of this points to greater risk of deflation than inflation. Now, if we start erecting trade barriers and other silliness, then we might just get the inflation everyone is so worried about.

[Mac5.56]

It is unlikely that knowing carpenters will do any good in the future economy. If it came to the point needing to know farmers to survive most of us will already be dead. This "apocalypse" thinking is fun but no longer practical in 2010.

B_C

First off: Will you please get it through your head that the spending trend started with Bush? Please. Your lack of current historical fact is amazing, and only goes to prove my point.

Second: There are real economic analysts, and real historians (people with degrees, that have jobs at places that don't start with the word Fox, or consist of being part of the Murdoc Think Tank) that starting to analyze and compare the current global (and national reality) to that of the world twenty years prior to the Soviet Union. They are doing this looking for similarities between the two super powers responses to contemporary global realities. The similarities between the United States today, and the Soviet Union 25 years before the collapse are very real.

Does it mean we can't get out of this problem? No it doesn't but it's going to take a lot more then electing some tea baggers to the House of Representatives, sitting back, and saying "we stuck it to em".

Third: Regarding the local carpenters. I would suggest to everyone right now that you start looking for relationships with people that live within your communities. Try and centralize your economic spending so that it goes directly back into the pockets of members within your immediate community. It is not apocalyptic to buy and support locally in order to develop a strong localized sustainable community. In fact it's probably the smartest thing any of us could be doing right now.

[Business_Casual]

You are barking mad if you think Bush started the spending trends, and I don't need to get anything "through my head" thank you very much. The European economies have supported high (confiscatory) tax rates and spending for decades without becoming the USSR, regardless of reduced growth and systemic unemployment. Yes, some of them are austere and spending programs now but their spending in real terms was much higher than ours has been so far.

As far as people with degrees, so what? Joe Biden has a law degree and he's an idiot, many would agree. Bill Gates never graduated and is one of the richest men in the world. So what?

B_C

[Mac5.56]

You are barking mad if you think Bush started the spending trends.

Actually I'm not, I'm aware.