View Full Version : IRS to Jewish group: 'Does your organization support the existence of Israel?
IRS to Jewish group: 'Does your organization support the existence of the land of Israel?'
"Does your organization support the existence of the land of Israel?" IRS agent Tracy Dornette wrote the organization, according to this week's court filing, as part of its consideration of the organizations application for tax exempt status. "Describe your organization's religious belief sytem toward the land of Israel."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...l.html?showall
The CURRENT government gives taxpayer money to the Palestinian muslim terrorists ($100 million, I think it was) but is denying tax exempt status to a Jewish charitable organization because it supports the existence of Israel.
edit: Can there any doubt about THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT's sympathies and religious leanings?
The_War_Wagon
11-25-10, 07:35
Can there any doubt about Obama's sympathies and about his religious beliefs?
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/notamuslim01.jpg
If I were the Jewish group, I'd send back a one sentence answer - "Is the pope still Catholic?" :sarcastic:
Ok now wait. There is a big difference between
"Does your organization support the existence of the land of Israel?"
And
"Describe your organization's religious belief sytem toward the land of Israel."
The first one I can see as being questionable. The second not so much. Well except for the misspelling of system.
Link doesn't work, this one does:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1110/IRS_to_Jewish_group_Does_your_organization_support_the_existence_of_the_land_of_Israel.html
rickrock305
11-25-10, 08:52
The Obama government gives taxpayer money to the Palestinian muslim terrorists ($100 million, I think it was)
false
but is denying tax exempt status to a Jewish charitable organization because it supports the existence of Israel.
false
false
No it is true. They dumped a ton of money on Hamas (or at least Gaza which frees up Hamas money for other purposes)
false
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 11:13
Will they ask CAIR and the other Muslim front groups if they support the establishment of a Palestinian state? :rolleyes:
That would be a stupid question, because the official US policy is support for a Palestinian state, and has been for years.
can the IRS even ask that? :confused:
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 12:21
As they support the state of Israel, last time I checked.
That would be a stupid question, because the official US policy is support for a Palestinian state, and has been for years.
The fun loving Palestinian's make some great TV shows for kids with the money we give them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2J3my3pOIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneSE6nJiLw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8w7_P8wZ0
B
jklaughrey
11-25-10, 13:15
.....
As they support the state of Israel, last time I checked.
You're familiar with the proposed two state solution, no?
I personally wish we'd stop sending US tax dollars to ANY country, we could certainly use it here.
The fun loving Palestinian's make some great TV shows for kids with the money we give them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2J3my3pOIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneSE6nJiLw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8w7_P8wZ0
B
I have never seen two people more dedicated to making sure their children learn hatred than those in the Middle East.
http://allhatnocattle.net/children_bombs.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uPzsiWdvLoQ/SfrTr9FEDQI/AAAAAAAABeM/IktQfjgz5lc/s400/rocket+nasrallah.jpg
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 13:53
Indeed. The question remains why a Jewish group is under scrutiny for supporting Israel, when no such Muslim group is subject to same for supporting a Pali state.
Double standards, perhaps?:rolleyes:
You're familiar with the proposed two state solution, no?
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 14:12
I'd like to see us stop sending aid to nations like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
Israel deserves our continued support.
I personally wish we'd stop sending US tax dollars to ANY country, we could certainly use it here.
Indeed. The question remains why a Jewish group is under scrutiny for supporting Israel, when no such Muslim group is subject to same for supporting a Pali state.
Double standards, perhaps?:rolleyes:
Probably has more to do with the laws on tax exemption.
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 14:23
We all know that these Muslim front groups would never violate their 501 (c) (3) status.....:rolleyes:
Probably has more to do with the laws on tax exemption.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-25-10, 15:38
I have never seen two people more dedicated to making sure their children learn hatred than those in the Middle East.
http://allhatnocattle.net/children_bombs.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uPzsiWdvLoQ/SfrTr9FEDQI/AAAAAAAABeM/IktQfjgz5lc/s400/rocket+nasrallah.jpg
My son went on a field trip to see a prairie dog town this year.
I hope she is writing "Booom, that just happened."
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 15:41
Are those photos from the 2006 war with Hezbollah or Cast Lead?
I personally wish we'd stop sending US tax dollars to ANY country, we could certainly use it here.
it does feel like we're kind of pissing our money away trying to end a 500 year old religious war... :o
it's like trying to make red sox and yankees fans get along... :o
I'd like to see us stop sending aid to nations like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
Israel deserves our continued support.
Israel my be deserving of support, but not TAX DOLLARS. If a citizen decides to financially support Israel they may choose to.
Are those photos from the 2006 war with Hezbollah or Cast Lead?
I think those were the one with Hezbollah.
I have never seen two people more dedicated to making sure their children learn hatred than those in the Middle East.
http://allhatnocattle.net/children_bombs.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uPzsiWdvLoQ/SfrTr9FEDQI/AAAAAAAABeM/IktQfjgz5lc/s400/rocket+nasrallah.jpg
Amen!
We need to stop our gov't reps from sending OUR money to *ALL* foreign entities and nations as we sink into the morass of poverty and debt. One cannot serve two masters. And it matters not to me if it's Israel or Timbuktu. If any INDIVIDUAL wishes to send HIS/HER hard-earned money then it's up to them. Taking my portion without asking me is tantamount to theft. Period.
We also need to stop the double standard. Both sides have powerful groups that foment hatred. :rolleyes:
Will they ask CAIR and the other Muslim front groups if they support the establishment of a Palestinian state? :rolleyes:
There just happens to be a ruling by a federal judge to the effect that CAIR is involved in a conspiracy to funnel money to Hamas.
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 19:59
Shocking....
There just happens to be a ruling by a federal judge to the effect that CAIR is involved in a conspiracy to funnel money to Hamas.
rickrock305
11-25-10, 20:59
Indeed. The question remains why a Jewish group is under scrutiny for supporting Israel, when no such Muslim group is subject to same for supporting a Pali state.
Double standards, perhaps?:rolleyes:
You can't be serious. Our government has done a hell of a lot more to people in our country than ask them questions. Lock them up, freeze their accounts, take their funds, etc.
rickrock305
11-25-10, 21:00
Israel deserves our continued support.
Why?
Its the direct root of our terrorism problem.
There just happens to be a ruling by a federal judge to the effect that CAIR is involved in a conspiracy to funnel money to Hamas.
And on that subject I wish CAIR would be officially recognized as a front for Islamic terrorism, it's members investigated and arrested and the organization outlawed.
Why?
Its the direct root of our terrorism problem.
Not really. Muslims who think they can dictate whom we may and may not choose to ally with are more of the root cause. In addition to that, even if we never gave a dime to Israel we would still be an infidel nation and probably still the great satan. Nothing short of complete conversion to Islam and adoption of Sharia law will satisfy our Muslim enemies.
That fact that it enrages those barbaric idiots living in the stone age is about the only good thing resulting from our alliance with Israel beyond things like common diplomatic and international issues.
GermanSynergy
11-25-10, 21:05
Are you havin' a laugh, cause I hope you're joking.
Why?
Its the direct root of our terrorism problem.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-25-10, 22:10
One thing that I have never understood about the Palestinians and their plight. They are live in this crap hole of a 'country' and the Arabs and Muslims always complain about how bad the Palestinians have it. Every time I hear the Saudis bring up the Palestinian issue, I wonder why they dont' just fix it with some cash. There are maybe couple of million Palestinians- just STFU and put up some cash and make their areas not such a shit hole to live in.
Just proves to me that the Arabs would rather have the issue to complain about than to actually fix the problem.
Their own country and billions in aid, heck even preferential treatment isn't going to take the issue away. IF it would, Jesse Jackson and his ilk would have been shut up with Liberia, The War on Poverty and 40 years of quotas.
If people cannot understand it then they should take a MONTH OR TWO (not reading an article or two or simply taking someone's word for it) and PERSONALLY study "Eretz Israel" (Greater Israel) and Political Zionism. Hint: Claiming other nations' land cannot be an effective way to engender much trust and friendship.
And just because you claim YOUR God made YOU special and gave the land and it's people to YOU doesn't mean the OTHER guy buys into YOUR story because YOU said so. It's a simple issue, really.
Thankfully, I wasn't born in the contested region and have no biological connection with either side. Many who have positions on the subject should be aware that if you were born to the parents on the "other side" of the argument would have vastly different views.
Will Man EVER learn? It seems not.
Gutshot John
11-25-10, 23:27
Equating all Israelis to Zionists would be a profound error. Putting all Zionists into a single monolithic bloc of beliefs, goals or identity would be similarly inane. For instance there is a profound difference between Labor Zionism and Revisionist Zionism.
I can't think of any people with a better historic claim to the land upon which they reside. As for the claim that one's God made them "special" it decidedly cuts both ways. Israel exists and has a right to exist per longstanding international agreements, the UN and virtually every form of international law. The ONLY thing in dispute is whether that right extends to the Jordan River, North into Lebanon and South into the Sinai, only the first is even relevant.
If you don't believe that the US should offer any foreign aid to any nation, that's a valid perspective though I'd submit that Israel has done far more than any other nation to repay the loans (the bulk of the aid it has received) it has gotten and so considering its strength as an ally represents a solid investment.
Congressional Medal of Honor
McGONAGLE, WILLIAM L.
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Sailing in international waters, the Liberty was attacked without warning by jet fighter aircraft and motor torpedo boats which inflicted many casualties among the crew and caused extreme damage to the ship. Although severely wounded during the first air attack, Capt. McGonagle remained at his battle station on the badly damaged bridge and, with full knowledge of the seriousness of his wounds, subordinated his own welfare to the safety and survival of his command. Steadfastly refusing any treatment which would take him away from his post, he calmly continued to exercise firm command of his ship. Despite continuous exposure to fire, he maneuvered his ship, directed its defense, supervised the control of flooding and fire, and saw to the care of the casualties. Capt. McGonagle's extraordinary valor under these conditions inspired the surviving members of the Liberty's crew, many of them seriously wounded, to heroic efforts to overcome the battle damage and keep the ship afloat. Subsequent to the attack, although in great pain and weak from the loss of blood, Captain McGonagle remained at his battle station and continued to command his ship for more than 17 hours. It was only after rendezvous with a U.S. destroyer that he relinquished personal control of the Liberty and permitted himself to be removed from the bridge. Even then, he refused much needed medical attention until convinced that the seriously wounded among his crew had been treated. Capt. McGonagle's superb professionalism, courageous fighting spirit, and valiant leadership saved his ship and many lives. His actions sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.
Israel is our friend, yeah, sure they are.
Bolt_Overide
11-25-10, 23:53
Regardless of wether or not we should be helping isreal or any other nation financially, I dont see where the .gov gets the right to question whether a religious organization supports anyone, save illegal organizations of course.
Gutshot John
11-25-10, 23:56
Captain McGonagle was indeed a brave man, but even if you believe it wasn't a tragic accident the likes of which do occur in warfare, under heightened conditions, the Liberty attack occurred more than 40 years ago, the administration and officers who ordered the attack are long since dead and buried. It would be akin to making Barack Obama responsible for Iran Air 655.
If you think that past military actions, justified or not, determine for all time whether someone is an ally than we should still be hostile to Great Britain (the only power to have invaded the US), Japan and Germany, arguably our three strongest allies, did far worse to American servicemen and civilians.
Belmont31R
11-26-10, 00:09
Since its past midnight (I said no political threads on T-Day).....most of the money we give them is for military aide which has to be spent with US companies. Thats why they are all running around with Colts, ACOG's, M24's, ect
So that money basically goes back to the US to our defense contractors. Not all of it but the meatiest chunk.
Im not for handing out money to foreign nations when we have our own issues at at hand but if anyone deserves it its Israel. I don't really care about their internal politics but they are killing BG's, and the money would otherwise be wasted on more welfare. Id rather see our tax dollars go to them than our own leeches.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-26-10, 00:12
If people cannot understand it then they should take a MONTH OR TWO (not reading an article or two or simply taking someone's word for it) and PERSONALLY study "Eretz Israel" (Greater Israel) and Political Zionism. Hint: Claiming other nations' land cannot be an effective way to engender much trust and friendship.
And just because you claim YOUR God made YOU special and gave the land and it's people to YOU doesn't mean the OTHER guy buys into YOUR story because YOU said so. It's a simple issue, really.
Thankfully, I wasn't born in the contested region and have no biological connection with either side. Many who have positions on the subject should be aware that if you were born to the parents on the "other side" of the argument would have vastly different views.
Will Man EVER learn? It seems not.
I am the retained legal counsel for the Cro-magnon people that where displaced by the Canaanite people, who where displaced by the Jews who where displaced..........
This settlement, that Iron age battle, this UN dictum, this or that screw job it all comes down to who is willing to grab a rifle and say "**** off, this is mine!". Everyone's got a claim and nobody's got the right. You've got this clash of civilizations and cultures- pick the one that you want to win. Who cheered and who knowingly grieved on 9/11?
Give them Palestine and they'll start bitching about Spain, or the land up to Tours, or everything to the walls of Vienna. Yea, Israel is the problem and the Palestinians are just victims of Zionist greed- but the Jordanians had their fill of Palestinians too.
Equating all Israelis to Zionists would be a profound error. Putting all Zionists into a single monolithic bloc of beliefs, goals or identity would be similarly inane. For instance there is a profound difference between Labor Zionism and Revisionist Zionism.
I can't think of any people with a better historic claim to the land upon which they reside. As for the claim that one's God made them "special" it decidedly cuts both ways. Israel exists and has a right to exist per longstanding international agreements, the UN and virtually every form of international law. The ONLY thing in dispute is whether that right extends to the Jordan River, North into Lebanon and South into the Sinai, only the first is even relevant.
If you don't believe that the US should offer any foreign aid to any nation, that's a valid perspective though I'd submit that Israel has done far more than any other nation to repay the loans (the bulk of the aid it has received) it has gotten and so considering its strength as an ally represents a solid investment.
While all Israelis certainly aren't Zionists, they do seem to run the country. And if you stray too far from that doctrine, your own people will correct you.
http://www.peacefoundation.org.nz/uploads/images/rabin.jpg
Gutshot John
11-26-10, 01:07
While all Israelis certainly aren't Zionists, they do seem to run the country. And if you stray too far from that doctrine, your own people will correct you.
http://www.peacefoundation.org.nz/uploads/images/rabin.jpg
Most Israelis remember Rabin as we do Kennedy or Lincoln and for very good reason.
Equating the actions of a lone radical as justified or even condoned by most (or even all) Israelis is not accurate.
If you don't believe that the US should offer any foreign aid to any nation, that's a valid perspective...
In what respect? I don't claim to be an expert on the matter, but everything I have read says that our foreign aid program is two things: A tiny fraction of our federal budget and one of the few things our government does well.
thopkins22
11-26-10, 08:54
In what respect? I don't claim to be an expert on the matter, but everything I have read says that our foreign aid program is two things: A tiny fraction of our federal budget and one of the few things our government does well.
How do we do it well? By supporting both sides of the most complicated conflict on the planet? I don't think Israel deserves a single dollar from our government, but neither do their worst enemies whom we give far more money.
Our foreign aid is amongst the primary reasons Africa is still as backwards as it is. Truly, I'd wager that we've indirectly killed more people with foreign aid than we have with all the bombs dropped in the past few wars.
GermanSynergy
11-26-10, 09:52
We get a far greater ROI with Israel than say, any Crapistan country. They buy military harware from us, and use it on our mutual enemies in the region.
How do we do it well? By supporting both sides of the most complicated conflict on the planet? I don't think Israel deserves a single dollar from our government, but neither do their worst enemies whom we give far more money.
Our foreign aid is amongst the primary reasons Africa is still as backwards as it is. Truly, I'd wager that we've indirectly killed more people with foreign aid than we have with all the bombs dropped in the past few wars.
Gutshot John
11-26-10, 10:38
In what respect? I don't claim to be an expert on the matter, but everything I have read says that our foreign aid program is two things: A tiny fraction of our federal budget and one of the few things our government does well.
I wasn't arguing for no aid at all, in fact I'd agree with you. I was simply recognizing that many people think foreign aid is not what our tax money should be spent on... which is fine so long as you're not singling out Israel. However there are two parts to foreign aid: political as in the case of Israel, Jordan Egypt etc. and humanitarian as in the case of disaster relief, AIDS treatment, malaria and starvation.
We don't give it because we are nice people, we give it because we have a national interest in doing so. For instance Israel is the strongest ally we have in the region, we don't want Afghanistan to fall back into chaos and the Taliban, we don't want boat people from Haiti etc.
Myself I think foreign aid to people that hate us does no good. America should be seen to be generous with its friends and relentless adversaries towards its enemies. That said we don't want China going in and making more enemies for us.
Most Israelis remember Rabin as we do Kennedy or Lincoln and for very good reason.
Rabin was the son of a power mad robber baron, high all the time, threw the beef dart into Marylin Monroe's cinnamon ring and staffed his cabinet with academicians and ideologues instead of human beings?
Some folks have different things about political figures stand out in their minds. Folks that view Kennedy favorably need to get over thinking that getting his head turned into a canoe in no way made him a good president, just a dead one.
Gutshot John
11-26-10, 11:17
Rabin was the son of a power mad robber baron, high all the time, threw the beef dart into Marylin Monroe's cinnamon ring and staffed his cabinet with academicians and ideologues instead of human beings?
Some folks have different things about political figures stand out in their minds. Folks that view Kennedy favorably need to get over thinking that getting his head turned into a canoe in no way made him a good president, just a dead one.
The assassination of Kennedy was no more a repudiation of Kennedy's policies by the American people than Rabin's was a repudiation of his policies by Israelis, zionists or otherwise.
The comparison was not of their characters but of their perception in the popular imagination.
No, you're right, Kennedy's policies did that for themselves.
Rabin's made sense and didn't have the pie-in-the-sky flavor to them that Kennedy's did.
The point about popular perception is certainly valid, but in Kennedy's case, it just isn't deserved. He was a shitty president and a shitty person, like his whole family. I don't think Rabin counts as either, so it's only a fair comparison purely from the standpoint of popular perception.
[1] Equating all Israelis to Zionists would be a profound error. Putting all Zionists into a single monolithic bloc of beliefs, goals or identity would be similarly inane. For instance there is a profound difference between Labor Zionism and Revisionist Zionism.
[2] I can't think of any people with a better historic claim to the land upon which they reside. As for the claim that one's God made them "special" it decidedly cuts both ways. Israel exists and has a right to exist per longstanding international agreements, the UN and virtually every form of international law. The ONLY thing in dispute is whether that right extends to the Jordan River, North into Lebanon and South into the Sinai, only the first is even relevant.
[3] If you don't believe that the US should offer any foreign aid to any nation, that's a valid perspective though I'd submit that Israel has done far more than any other nation to repay the loans (the bulk of the aid it has received) it has gotten and so considering its strength as an ally represents a solid investment.
[1] All Israelis aren't Talmudic Zionists. All so-called Jews are not Talmudic Zionists. This I know for a fact - not a "belief".
[2] It depends soley upon your BELIEF. There is plenty of secular history that refutes the religious claim. If you choose to believe the religious claim then that's YOUR belief. Personally, I don't give a rat's nail about the UN or international organizations. I am an American and not a "child of the international governmental organizations". I assume you feel similarly.
[3] I recall us GIVING Israel millions a year...
rickrock305
11-26-10, 12:06
Not really. Muslims who think they can dictate whom we may and may not choose to ally with are more of the root cause. In addition to that, even if we never gave a dime to Israel we would still be an infidel nation and probably still the great satan. Nothing short of complete conversion to Islam and adoption of Sharia law will satisfy our Muslim enemies.
That fact that it enrages those barbaric idiots living in the stone age is about the only good thing resulting from our alliance with Israel beyond things like common diplomatic and international issues.
Are you havin' a laugh, cause I hope you're joking.
The current crop of terrorists, aka Islamic terrorism, is a direct result of the creation of Israel, Israel's occupation of Lebanon, and U.S. support for Israel, as well as U.S. involvement in several Muslim countries.
Yes, the roots of terrorism go back much further than this. But I'm specifically talking about the modern militant Islam version.
The current crop of terrorists, aka Islamic terrorism, is a direct result of the creation of Israel, Israel's occupation of Lebanon, and U.S. support for Israel, as well as U.S. involvement in several Muslim countries.
Yes, the roots of terrorism go back much further than this. But I'm specifically talking about the modern militant Islam version.
the current crop only uses whatever they want as a excuse !!!
its like saying the girl dressed in a way that asked her to get raped !!!
I wish we could go back in time and not be nice to the Muslims when they asked to share the holy land ! wish we could go back to 580 and take out a certain person and the world would be much better place
you most likely learned that islam was their first ?
many actually believe its the truth that they want to destroy any one who is not muslim and convert who they can destroy the others ! this is their way !!! and has been throughout history its just that each generation or so they need a new excuse to kill others in the name of their religion
explain then why they have been against Hindus for ever ? and used the same measures against them throughout history ?
the fact is we just happen to be this generations excuse
Rabin was the son of a power mad robber baron, high all the time, threw the beef dart into Marylin Monroe's cinnamon ring and staffed his cabinet with academicians and ideologues instead of human beings?
Some folks have different things about political figures stand out in their minds. Folks that view Kennedy favorably need to get over thinking that getting his head turned into a canoe in no way made him a good president, just a dead one.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5707/jfklttr0561lrgqr6.jpg
Gutshot John
11-26-10, 14:14
[1] All Israelis aren't Talmudic Zionists. All so-called Jews are not Talmudic Zionists. This I know for a fact - not a "belief". ok and?
[2] It depends soley upon your BELIEF. There is plenty of secular history that refutes the religious claim. If you choose to believe the religious claim then that's YOUR belief. Personally, I don't give a rat's nail about the UN or international organizations. I am an American and not a "child of the international governmental organizations". I assume you feel similarly.
What secular history are you referring to? There is plenty of secular (not to mention archeologic) history that supports the claim. Unless youre somehow denying Jerusalem was founded by Hebrews, which would be absurd.
The United State, as well as every other state, becomes fully fledged when it's recognized by other nations as a sovereign power. We would not have lasted long had France, the Netherlands and Spain had not recognized us as such and extended us credit aka aid to provide for our defense. This is why China gets it's knickers in a twist when we give aid to Taiwan etc. This has long been established as precedent. You might not like it but we, nor Israel, didn't invent the rules we just play by them.
[3] I recall us GIVING Israel millions a year...[/QUOTE]
The bulk of our aid to Israel takes the form of loans. Loans are paid back.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-26-10, 16:05
The current crop of terrorists, aka Islamic terrorism, is a direct result of the creation of Israel, Israel's occupation of Lebanon, and U.S. support for Israel, as well as U.S. involvement in several Muslim countries.
Yes, the roots of terrorism go back much further than this. But I'm specifically talking about the modern militant Islam version.
Let's give them Czechoslovakia, ehr I mean Palestine and see how far that gets us.
Imagine if all the money and effort Arabs spent on Jihad went to programs to help Palestinians....
GermanSynergy
11-26-10, 17:12
Sorry, my give a damn's busted for the Palis. They danced in the streets on 9/11, as well as elected a terrorist group to govern them (Hamas).
Israel has been more than decent to them, yet their overtures of peace and friendship are met with more demands and violence.
The Jordanians have problems with the Palis as well.
Israel is the good guy in this fight and I'm 100% behind them.
Nathan_Bell
11-26-10, 17:35
Let's give them Czechoslovakia, ehr I mean Palestine and see how far that gets us.
Imagine if all the money and effort Arabs spent on Jihad went to programs to help Palestinians....
..but then the Saud's would not have their boogie-men to aim the Wahibian (sp?) indoctrinated youth of their country at.
rickrock305
11-26-10, 18:47
Sorry, my give a damn's busted for the Palis. They danced in the streets on 9/11, as well as elected a terrorist group to govern them (Hamas).
Israel has been more than decent to them, yet their overtures of peace and friendship are met with more demands and violence.
The Jordanians have problems with the Palis as well.
Israel is the good guy in this fight and I'm 100% behind them.
:D Seriously, thats laugh out loud funny.
Honestly, my give a damn never existed for the entire region.
The fun loving Palestinian's make some great TV shows for kids with the money we give them...
Oh that is just so disturbing. I mean it's just so, so bad there really are no words.
I really can't think of anything at all that would be too horrible to happen to that group of insane beasts.
Sorry, my give a damn's busted for the Palis. They danced in the streets on 9/11, as well as elected a terrorist group to govern them (Hamas).
Don't get me wrong, I'm in the same place. I used to believe they had a legitimate beef and weren't being treated fairly. But I haven't cared about Middle Eastern injustice for going on 10 years now.
But that doesn't mean I have a "can do no wrong" attitude towards Israel, nor does it mean I think they are entitled to my tax dollars.
justin_247
11-28-10, 18:47
What I hate about this whole thing is that we're funneling billions of dollars in money and selling billions of dollars in military hardware to various Arab countries and Turkey, while we:
(a) force the Kurds, who are perhaps the most pro-American people in the entire region, to live under oppressive Turkish, Persian, and Arab rule;
(b) allow the Lebanese government to slowly be overrun by Hezbollah by refusing to sell arms to them unless they enact democratic reforms which gives Hezbollah more power;
(c) refuse to kick Turkey out of NATO despite their complete refusal to respect Iraqi sovereignty or support our actions in Iraq while building up their relations with Syria and Iran;
(d) continue to sell tens of billions of dollars worth of military hardware to the Saudis despite their complete lack of interest in policing their mosques or Wahhabist missionary operations;
(e) fund the Pakistanis to the tune of several billion dollars despite the fact that their "democratically elected" leaders are among the most corrupt in the region, and far more anti-American than the military government that was in place before we push them out after falling in love with the corrupt sham politician Benazir Bhutto;
(f) fund the Afghani government to the tune of billions of dollars with barely any operations being done to ensure accountability for that money, and to ensure that it isn't being funnelled away to a Swiss bank account by Karzai and his buddies;
... I could go on.
Our policies for the entire region are schizophrenic. Many of them are based upon Cold War policies that no longer apply and simply can't be changed, like a court precedent. Many are based solely on political correctness and idealistic notions of a perfect world, all flawed.
Honestly, we should finish Iraq and Afghanistan up, and then pull out of the entire region. We should then enact a containment policy that doesn't allow any immigration into the Western world and that utilizes punitive expeditions against peoples in question that raise their arms against us. If they refuse to sell us natural resources that we need, then we should feel free to seize control of those oil fields and then use Western workers to run them. The only people who should get our financial support are those who meet certain guidelines concerning their relations with other countries in that region and relative levels of corruption.
Honestly, we should finish Iraq and Afghanistan up, and then pull out of the entire region. We should then enact a containment policy that doesn't allow any immigration into the Western world and that utilizes punitive expeditions against peoples in question that raise their arms against us. If they refuse to sell us natural resources that we need, then we should feel free to seize control of those oil fields and then use Western workers to run them. The only people who should get our financial support are those who meet certain guidelines concerning their relations with other countries in that region and relative levels of corruption.
This is basically Roman foreign policy.
John_Wayne777
11-29-10, 07:01
The Jordanians have problems with the Palis as well.
The agitator in chief, Yassir Arafat, attempting to overthrow King Hussein might have something to do with that.
If we knew then what we know now, it would have been a good idea to mount a joint op with Jordanian forces and eliminate Arafat's entire organization...leaving not a single one of them alive.
It would have saved a lot of headaches in the long run.
GermanSynergy
11-29-10, 08:04
Most Jordanians would have supported such an op 100%, I'm sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
The agitator in chief, Yassir Arafat, attempting to overthrow King Hussein might have something to do with that.
If we knew then what we know now, it would have been a good idea to mount a joint op with Jordanian forces and eliminate Arafat's entire organization...leaving not a single one of them alive.
It would have saved a lot of headaches in the long run.
justin_247
12-01-10, 18:21
This is basically Roman foreign policy.
Not quite... but, regardless, I don't see your point.
If we knew then what we know now, it would have been a good idea to mount a joint op with Jordanian forces and eliminate Arafat's entire organization...leaving not a single one of them alive.
It would have saved a lot of headaches in the long run.
The Israelis came very close to killing Arafat in 1982 during their invasion of Lebanon. In our infinite stupidity, President Reagan coordinated with European governments for him to sign an agreement that allowed him and PLO forces safe passage to Tunis. 800 U.S. Marines and the U.S. Navy, working with various other forces, protected him from the Israelis. Real geniuses at work there - foreign policy by wishful thinking at its absolute finest.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.