Caveat Empto - ADCO

[Rockfish Dave]

Caveat Emptor - ADCO

I got my new barrel and Battle Comp 1.0 back from ADCO yesterday. The dimpling and re-parkarized finish looks good. The only thing is it looks like someone used it in a carbine class...

Minutes before shipping...
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/Rockfish_Dave/IMG_5311-1.jpg

After getting it back...
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/Rockfish_Dave/IMG_5721.jpg

I say that it looks like it had been fired since it was new, and unfired when I sent it. The compensator had a nice layer of powder residue on the inside too. When I asked Steve at ADCO about it he was a dismissive and patronizing. Wasn't that big a deal, but his dickness just pissed me off.

Oh well now the important stuff:

The weight after dimpling:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/Rockfish_Dave/IMG_5717.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/Rockfish_Dave/IMG_5720.jpg


So would I have another barrel dimpled? Maybe, just not at ADCO.

[Robb Jensen]

How much weight did the dimpling reduce the weight of the bbl?

[MookNW]

How much did it weigh before dimpling? Is that a BABC?, It's way bigger than my 1.0.
I'd probably be a little upset if someone de-flowerd my baby like that. That's just me though.
Looks good.

[kwelz]

is the BC pinned on? It is possible it got discolored from the heat of that process.

[Yojimbo]

Did they mention if it was test fired after the work was done?

Also, could it be possible they installed a different Battlecomp than the originalyou shipped the barrel with? I'm not saying the did it on purpose but rather they made an honest mistake.

Maybe I missed it, but what was the weight before the dimple job?

[DSZM4]

What type of material is the BC? It could be a discolor issue.

Personally if the rifle is under 500 rounds this would not bug me, if someone wants to spend money on ammo for my break in/proofing of a new system that's all the better. These are tools after all.

As for steve he may rub some manufactures the wrong way but he is very good at what he does. I have see the crown he cuts on barrels its top notch work and sure to please the customer and as a bonus increase the accuracy of the barrel.

[ra2bach]

that shit's not from welding. if that was mine, I'd be hot too. not so much from the condition but from the dismissive attitude. who does this Steve guy think he is?

ADCO has held a good reputation for years but this is the second case of head-up-ass disease that I've heard of from these guys. that's enough for me to know I got better alternatives...

[MarkG]

Did they mention if it was test fired after the work was done?

Also, could it be possible they installed a different Battlecomp than the originalyou shipped the barrel with? I'm not saying the did it on purpose but rather they made an honest mistake.

Maybe I missed it, but what was the weight before the dimple job?

Test fired? BS...

[kwelz]

If that is the case I would be mad as well.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Sorry, but if I didnt give you permission to shoot the shit out of my barrel, then yo can replace any parts that you discolored in that process. Adco has a good rep, but thats ridiculous.

[Rockfish Dave]

So I posted this on AR15 and it was removed in under 20 minutes. The mod said it was without merrit. Below was my reponse:


So the powder residue inside the compensator is not merit? I guess he didn't clean it as well as he thought. And if it was infact degreased why was/is there still grease on the barrel threads...

I guess you have to protect your advertisers. Fair enough, I will share my crappy expirience elsewhere so others are not taken.

Steve,

You can explain it to the merchant credit card service provider.

When I caught you in a lie, you just spun another, so your credibility is zero.

- Dave

I was in such a hurry to ship the barrel after installing the comp and removing the gas tube I didn't weigh it (brain fart).

I have all the emails, shipping confirmations and photo's to substantiate my timeline and claims. I was photo documenting the installation for another thread so the condition of the barrel and compensator is extremely well documented. PM me if you need to know more, but that is the high level summary of the facts.

- Dave

[comprido]

Caveat Emptor - ADCO



I say that it looks like it had been fired since it was new, and unfired when I sent it. The compensator had a nice layer of powder residue on the inside too. When I asked Steve at ADCO about it he was a dismissive and patronizing. Wasn't that big a deal, but his dickness just pissed me off.

Oh well now the important stuff:



So I posted this on AR15 and it was removed in under 20 minutes. The mod said it was without merrit. Below was my reponse:


So the powder residue inside the compensator is not merit? I guess he didn't clean it as well as he thought. And if it was infact degreased why was/is there still grease on the barrel threads...

I guess you have to protect your advertisers. Fair enough, I will share my crappy expirience elsewhere so others are not taken.

Steve,

You can explain it to the merchant credit card service provider.

When I caught you in a lie, you just spun another, so your credibility is zero.

- Dave

I was in such a hurry to ship the barrel after installing the comp and removing the gas tube I didn't weigh it (brain fart).

I have all the emails, shipping confirmations and photo's to substantiate my timeline and claims. I was photo documenting the installation for another thread so the condition of the barrel and compensator is extremely well documented. PM me if you need to know more, but that is the high level summary of the facts.

- Dave

First you say it wasn't a big deal, but then after your thread was pulled down off the other site, you decided to dispute the claim with your credit card company? In effect, you are refusing to pay based on the owner's 'dickness' (sic), not because he (supposedly) fired your barrel.

Just to be clear -- I don't agree with pulling threads on this site or the other one. Yes, I don't like it when folks report a problem with their N****** or B**, and everyone says they have to give the companies a chance to make it right before they dare mention it on this site. (Working right out of the box is important to me, just as customer service is.) I just don't think you can withhold payment because a moderator pulled your thread.

You have a right to be upset if he in fact did send rounds through your barrel. I'd be careful how I explained my dissatisfaction, though. The merchant being dismissive and patronizing isn't grounds for refusing to pay, in my opinion.

[kaltesherz]

I'm sure someone there wanted to try the BC out and put some rounds through it, which is fine, IF THEY HAD ASKED YOU FIRST. It's actually not that big of a deal when you get down to it, but when you called them about it they should've apologized for the "test fire", not been dismissive. That's extremely poor customer service. I've had ADCO do work for me before and was nothing but impressed, but there was a thread on LF.net about a year ago about some pretty crappy CS at ADCO.

[TurretGunner]

Tos is full of morons and shit mods. They have ran out all the smes and anyone worth a shit. When they let someone from ctd become a mod..... thats all you need to know. Does adco sell bc?

[Rockfish Dave]

First you say it wasn't a big deal, but then after your thread was pulled down off the other site, you decided to dispute the claim with your credit card company? In effect, you are refusing to pay based on the owner's 'dickness' (sic), not because he (supposedly) fired your barrel.

Just to be clear -- I don't agree with pulling threads on this site or the other one. I don't like it when folks report a problem with their N****** or B**, and everyone says they have to give the companies a chance to make it right before they dare mention it on this site. (Working right out of the box is important to me, just as customer service is.) I just don't think you can withhold payment because a moderator pulled your thread.

Anyway, back on topic.

No, the two are independant of each other. Sorry for the confusion.

I am disputing on based on the fact that the company felt fit to use my barrel and/or compensator for their personal use. I liken that to taking my car into a shop for a oil change and the garage taking it for a pleasure road trip while in their care. Both are wrong.

I spoke to the CC dispute line and they see no issue why I cannot dipute and be successful. Since the comp is $200 and barrels are around $500 if memory serves, he is getting off easy.

As mentioned I had gave him ample opportunities to correct this and just got a shitty attitude and lies. (all of which are via email)

[Rockfish Dave]

Tos is full of morons and shit mods. They have ran out all the smes and anyone worth a shit. When they let someone from ctd become a mod..... thats all you need to know. Does adco sell bc?

I do not know if ADCo sells the BC. I did not see it on their website. If they do, then that would create the opportunity for an honest mix-up. They could have installed a demo by mistake... who knows. I just know that I got the shaft, and didn't appreciate it.

[TurretGunner]

I would refuse to pay as well. If thier cs was worth anything they would refund or provide you with replacement parts. He fact that hey blew you off would make me want to press hard. Had they been polite to their customers, A simple appology would suffice

[polymorpheous]

I'm sure someone there wanted to try the BC out and put some rounds through it, which is fine, IF THEY HAD ASKED YOU FIRST. It's actually not that big of a deal when you get down to it, but when you called them about it they should've apologized for the "test fire", not been dismissive. That's extremely poor customer service. I've had ADCO do work for me before and was nothing but impressed, but there was a thread on LF.net about a year ago about some pretty crappy CS at ADCO.

I read that whole thread and the attitude from ADCO was not warranted. They'll never get a dime of my money based on that thread alone. The OP of that thread is very well respected and sincere as far as I can tell. Funny thing is, while ADCO went out of their way to discredit the OP and play the blame game... Paul at Bravo Co. went out of his way to help the OP out. That spoke volumes to me.

OP sorry you had to put up with the attitude. I hope your upper serves you well.

[PropDoc]

Look, first off, Steve has NO interpersonal /customer relation skills to speak of. However, he is NOT dishonest by any stretch of the imagination.

That said, we have a great relationship with BattleComp, and had we even remotely wanted to "test" a battlecomp device, they would send us one for free, so why the hell would we risk using a customers. We already know they are good units, and work.

I showed these same photos to Nick and Alan at BattleComp, and they told me that the unit would look a lot worse than that, had we shot it. They also, VERY GRACIOUSLY i might add, stated they would be happy to replace the unit in question. However, since the OP, in no uncertain terms, stated for us to "Never contact him again", then it is a moot point.

We at Adco, have been accused of MANY things since i have been here, and this is one for the books.

[HeavyDuty]

You sent them an unmounted barrel, right?

I just have a hard time believing they mounted your barrel in an upper, shot it, then disassembled it to return it to you. I find the idea that (as suggested above) they grabbed the wrong comp to be a more likely explanation.

Net result assuming that's what happened - what's the difference? A brand new comp would look like that after a day of shooting.

EDIT: disregard - PropDoc posted while I was composing this. Sounds like the comp finish is the result of degreasing.

[seb5]

I hope you end up with some resolution here. I've used ADCO for years and never had a problem. I've also read of a few. The CS is more important to me than the issue.

I had them perm a BattleComp about 2 months ago and it came back looking like it did when I sent it, no issues. The only time I thought something was wrong I emailed them and they promtly answered my email and said send it in. This was a cut down to 14.5 and perm attach on a Sabre middie. After I put it together it was a single shot and I thought something might have clogged up the gas port. Before sending it in I pulled the FSB to check the gas port, which had never been drilled all the way through from Sabre!

With the internet word gets out. I hope with ADCO it is a question of a few slipping through the cracks vs. a general decline in the quality of work performed.

[stony275]

In addition to the poster, some of you are off base.

Steve did respond and explain to the customer/complaintant.
Neither Steve nor anyone he knows owns an LMT that could use such a barrel, so it begs the question how could they have fired rounds through it?
Secondly, why would he want to use the barrel and/or flash hider?

As Steve explained to the poster, MEK is used to degrease parts before parkerizing. BattleComp has had some finish issues. Parkerizing stainless steel is problematic at best. Do the math.

I've dealt with Steve numerous times over the years. I've never had an issue with him. I recommend him without reservation and will continue to do so. He's donated countless thousands of dollars of equipment to soldiers over here in Iraq and hasn't even mentioned it to bolster his name/reputation. This goes to show what type of person he is in terms of character.

Steve isn't the role model for customer service dialogue as he doesn't suffer fools lightly, but he's honest and ethical which does make him the role model for customer service action.

I do think that the fact that he did not fall all over himself apologizing to the poster only worked him up in an even greater tizzy.

I realize my name is probably going to get drug through the mud too now. So be it. I'll be glad to discuss it face to face with anyone once I return from Iraq.

[number1olddog]

In addition to the poster, some of you are off base.

Steve did respond and explain to the customer/complaintant.
Neither Steve nor anyone he knows owns an LMT that could use such a barrel, so it begs the question how could they have fired rounds through it?
Secondly, why would he want to use the barrel and/or flash hider?

As Steve explained to the poster, MEK is used to degrease parts before parkerizing. BattleComp has had some finish issues. Parkerizing stainless steel is problematic at best. Do the math.

I've dealt with Steve numerous times over the years. I've never had an issue with him. I recommend him without reservation and will continue to do so. He's donated countless thousands of dollars of equipment to soldiers over here in Iraq and hasn't even mentioned it to bolster his name/reputation. This goes to show what type of person he is in terms of character.

Steve isn't the role model for customer service dialogue as he doesn't suffer fools lightly, but he's honest and ethical which does make him the role model for customer service action.

I do think that the fact that he did not fall all over himself apologizing to the poster only worked him up in an even greater tizzy.

I realize my name is probably going to get drug through the mud too now. So be it. I'll be glad to discuss it face to face with anyone once I return from Iraq.

;)Well put.

[Hmac]

The troubling thing to me about the whole original post is why in the world Adco would have to or want to mount a customer's barrel and shoot it. They haven't ever shot a BC before? I find that unlikely.

I have to say, this thread has served to make me more aware of Adco's commitment to quality and more inclined to use them in the future. I like the way Stony and Propdoc stepped up and explained from the other side of the issue.

[Stickman]

I've seen solvent leave residue many times, so has anyone else who has done work with firearms or metals in general. SS has never taken a finish real well, and I can see MEK playing havoc with it.

If you are going to shoot it, its not an issue. If you are not going to shoot it, have it coated with Norrells and it will look great for a long time.

[Stickman]

In addition to the poster, some of you are off base.

Steve did respond and explain to the customer/complaintant.
Neither Steve nor anyone he knows owns an LMT that could use such a barrel, so it begs the question how could they have fired rounds through it?
Secondly, why would he want to use the barrel and/or flash hider?

As Steve explained to the poster, MEK is used to degrease parts before parkerizing. BattleComp has had some finish issues. Parkerizing stainless steel is problematic at best. Do the math.

I've dealt with Steve numerous times over the years. I've never had an issue with him. I recommend him without reservation and will continue to do so. He's donated countless thousands of dollars of equipment to soldiers over here in Iraq and hasn't even mentioned it to bolster his name/reputation. This goes to show what type of person he is in terms of character.

Steve isn't the role model for customer service dialogue as he doesn't suffer fools lightly, but he's honest and ethical which does make him the role model for customer service action.

I do think that the fact that he did not fall all over himself apologizing to the poster only worked him up in an even greater tizzy.

I realize my name is probably going to get drug through the mud too now. So be it. I'll be glad to discuss it face to face with anyone once I return from Iraq.


I should have read and quoted your post first, same thoughts here.

[Marty916]

We did have some issues with our coaters recently which has since been resolved. It is quite possible, as mentioned above, that solvents combined with out of spec coating can create the conditions you saw on your comp. I seriously doubt that ADCO would risk jeopardizing their reputation with unauthorized testing of a customer owned component. Regardless of where the issue lies, we offer our assistance to correct the problem. Just contact us through our website and Nick or Alan will respond.
Marty

[lethal dose]

We did have some issues with our coaters recently which has since been resolved. It is quite possible, as mentioned above, that solvents combined with out of spec coating can create the conditions you saw on your comp. I seriously doubt that ADCO would risk jeopardizing their reputation with unauthorized testing of a customer owned component. Regardless of where the issue lies, we offer our assistance to correct the problem. Just contact us through our website and Nick or Alan will respond.
Marty

O.P.- this is phenomenal cs and you need to take advantage of it. I have dealt with Steve before... he's nice enough and that's it. He just seems like he doesn't have a use for people without a brain... not insinuating that you don't, just sayin'. If I were you, I'd be a little pissed, too but not enough to raise hello over. It is a tool and won't always look fsb. Anyhow, call Marty and follow his instructions.

[Henchman]

I've seen solvent leave residue many times, so has anyone else who has done work with firearms or metals in general. SS has never taken a finish real well, and I can see MEK playing havoc with it.

If you are going to shoot it, its not an issue. If you are not going to shoot it, have it coated with Norrells and it will look great for a long time.


From looking at the pictures the discoloration could possibly be from MEK (METHYL ETHYL KETONE). I have used MEK a good bit and it will make everything from your hands to metal parts discolor in a similar fashion. I have no dog in this fight. I have never done business with ADCO, and the one time I did speak with them I also felt they were dismissive. I am just saying that it does look like MEK may have done it.

[TurretGunner]

Was the barrel shot.... any carbon in it or discolored gas tube/ extension. Somethings not adding up.

[jklaughrey]

Not to be dismissive with the OP, but I have done business with Steve and he is honest and straight forward. He strikes as a person who gives no quarter for those who worry about cosmetic appearances. Honestly, your tools are meant to be used. And unless it is a collection piece shoot the bloody thing and press on.

[MarkG]

O.P.- this is phenomenal cs and you need to take advantage of it. I have dealt with Steve before... he's nice enough and that's it. He just seems like he doesn't have a use for people without a brain... not insinuating that you don't, just sayin'. If I were you, I'd be a little pissed, too but not enough to raise hello over. It is a tool and won't always look fsb. Anyhow, call Marty and follow his instructions.

It has nothing to do with customer service. Only Marty can tell us what his incentive was for offering to fix a problem that wasn't his. Honestly, I think he is making a huge mistake offering to help. He is only reinforcing the mistaken idea that manufacturers, retailers or service providers are obligated to take in the ass as deep as necessary to make the customer happy.

[Marty916]

No incentive on my part at all, just reiterating a previous offer made by us but I certainly understand your point.

[TehLlama]

This whole thread has made me want to buy a BC1.5 and send it to ADCO.

OP: As this is your first Battlecomp (I can assume this completely under the confidence that you haven't shot it, as 100% of this would be moot the moment your put more than a magazine through the weapon anyway), going through Marty might be the most efficient way for you to deal with this from your end. As much as I feel this isn't BC's problem, they will hardly lose anything, as somebody will buy your ugly looking comp and be happy with that result.

[Jake'sDad]

Just sitting back looking from the outside in....I think I see a theme.


Look, first off, Steve has NO interpersonal /customer relation skills to speak of. However, he is NOT dishonest by any stretch of the imagination.



Steve isn't the role model for customer service dialogue as he doesn't suffer fools lightly, but he's honest and ethical which does make him the role model for customer service action.


Not to be dismissive with the OP, but I have done business with Steve and he is honest and straight forward. He strikes as a person who gives no quarter for those who worry about cosmetic appearances.

Every business will have customers that may be off base. (Not saying he was in this case). But when those that "don't suffer fools lightly" interact with unhappy customers, this is often the result.

[Robb Jensen]

This thread has run it's course.