SIRT Training Pistol [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

zacbol

11-25-10, 20:30

They've provided a few to the teachers at Insights, from whom I take classes. I've used them in both their General Defensive Handgun class, as well as this past weekend in Intensive Handgun Skills. They will show a red dot when the trigger is prepped 90%, then go green when you "fire".

In Intensive Handgun Skills, John Holschen mentioned that you have to be careful with them because if you are using them by yoursefl you may start focusing on the targer, rather than maintaining a sharp front sight focus.

At various points for students such as myself who were not sufficiently prepping the trigger, they had us switch to one of the SIRTs and we had another student watching the target to tell us if we were prepping, which results in a red dot followed by a green, or were jerking the trigger, which results in the red dot and green dot showing up simultaneously. I think for that purpose (learning proper trigger control) they're fairly useful, but I'm not sure I'd shell $400 for one given they have limited utility beyond that (as far as I know). Maybe if they were more like $150-200.

Stonebridge

11-25-10, 21:28

I was pretty impressed with the one we got to play with but my time was limited to just a few minutes in the shoot-house and I'm by no means a pro. Being that I don't use the GLOCK platform, the most useful aspect was its ability to highlight trigger snatching. The mag change and tap-rack-bang abilities would be very useful and for guys that do house clearing it would be invaluable especially in low-light when it's not easy to see when somebody's got his finger on the trigger.

For me personally, practicing with it wouldn't be the most realistic because it's not what I carry and I'm able to use my own range and classroom whenever I like BUT I would love to add one to my toolbox when I teach CCW classes in other people's homes.

Using the local WM prices for Federal 9mm, it would pay for itself in 2,100 rounds. For a GLOCK user, I'd say it's not a bad investment and looks to last pretty much forever.

-'bridge

Treehopr

11-25-10, 22:42

I saw it at SHOT Show earlier this year and was impressed by it. I spoke to the inventor for about 45 minutes and he was definitely knowledgeable.

I have 2 of them now and there are some durability issues with the laser/battery. It'd be nice if it were a lot cheaper but it does what its supposed to do, which is make it easier for people to practice and build up the number of neuro-muscular memory repetitions.

If you leave it around then folks will invariably pick it up and start dry firing with it. As a training/teaching tool for shooting or combatives-type training it is excellent and if you use it enough it is worth the cost.

I'd like to see them offer aftermarket sights as a factory option rather than the plastic sights and it'd be nice if it came with more than one magazine as well. The dimensions may be slightly off on the frame as I can't use it with my 5.11 VTAC thumb drive holster. A Glock 19/23 size frame would be a great addition.

I'm hoping that as the company matures and the product evolves some of these issues will be resolved.

ChocLab

11-26-10, 11:09

I would love to try one before I bought it. If anyone knows where one is, store or range, in the Los Angeles/Orange County area please post.

Since it is Glock, I am hesitant since I now shoot primarily M&P and will probably wait until they put one out for that platform. For now, I'll put that money towards ammo and training.

Their videos from their website http://www.nextleveltraining.com/ are quite informative. I especially like how you can incorporate physical fitness training with your dry-fire regimen, doing magazine changes, see the take up portion of the trigger, etc... They company seems to be full of guys who shoot.

As for focusing too much on the laser instead of the front sight, I have been thinking about the training ramifications of if you mounted a RDS on the training pistol to match your RDS set up on your pistol. In this instance, I believe you would be looking at your target and would get a superimposed view of the green laser in background of your red dot. My current aim is to order the Deltapointe through Bowie Tactical for an M&P45. I have an extra Burris fastfire that I could mount to the training pistol.

I would much rather have one that matches the trigger platform that I currently use but don't know how they would replicate it with an APEX kit.

On another food for though note, there is another product call ReadyShot that uses your existing handgun. http://www.readyshot.com/ReadyShot_Video_Demonstrations_s/34.htm and http://www.personalarmament.com/2010/10/readyshot-dry-fire-training-system-questions.html.

I am not sure how it adequately provides for the same trigger feel with out trying one out. Some one more technically advanced in the operation of the pistol can watch and opine. Also, it would not allow for magazine changes either.

rob_s

01-23-11, 06:41

Any more experiences with this?

Truthfully, I think I'd be more interested simply in something that automatically resets the trigger on my own gun, without all the lasers, and without having to take the gun apart.

I'd like to see someone come up with a drop in slide that has a way to reset the trigger built-in but that allows me to install my own sights. Hell, I'd sell it without sights at all.

ChocLab

01-23-11, 11:06

Truthfully, I think I'd be more interested simply in something that automatically resets the trigger on my own gun, without all the lasers, and without having to take the gun apart.

I'd like to see someone come up with a drop in slide that has a way to reset the trigger built-in but that allows me to install my own sights. Hell, I'd sell it without sights at all.

^This.

Ps I did contact them and they may have an M&P version around April.

I have come across some vendors that sell conversions for your own pistol that use co2 to cycle the slide. I would pay a lot for that but it looks like they only sell to agency/military. I'll have to look for the link.

ChocLab

01-23-11, 12:15

So I don't thread jack this thread, info on conversion system for your own pistol.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=886347#post886347

Treehopr

01-23-11, 12:59

I stopped by the JP Enterprises booth at SHOT and spoke with the SIRT folks.

I mentioned my issues with battery contacts and the frame being slightly too big for my holster and they offered to swap both of the SIRT pistols with their newest generation version.

They had a S&W M&P as well as the new drop in bolt conversion unit for an AR type weapon. Looks promising but I will hold off until they release it for sale.

As far as using the lasers- my personal preference is to have the prep laser line up below the front sight (when aiming in) and to have the trigger break laser "splash" behind the front sight.

vigilant2

01-23-11, 15:57

I've been using this unit from laserlyte for about 2 months now....

http://www.laserlyte.com/Laser_Training_System/LT-PRO/LT-PRO.html

nice thing is that it inserts in the barrel of any gun, as you slightly
twist it becomes secure, place a dummy round or snapcap in the
chamber and you're GTG. It only emits the laser at trigger break
just long enough for you to see POI. You do have to reset your
trigger for the next shot, but I can do that one handed in less than
a second without fully racking the slide on my g19. The one caveat
is that you must either remove the batteries from the unit when done or insert the tiny plastic disc included to prevent the batteries from dieing as there is no off switch. I've dryfired with it all over
with 1"dots 3"bullseyes etc etc. The price is good too.

And now I find out they just came out with this unit to work with it
..........................

http://www.laserlyte.com/Laser_Training_System/TLB-1/TLB-1.html

Cesiumsponge

02-17-11, 21:49

Two local instructors voiced that they seemed to like the units they were sent for T&E. One got the gray version and suggested getting the red slide instead because the gray isn't as eye-catching. I wonder why they didn't just mold the entire thing in a safety color. The price is steep, but they look to give much more feedback than winging it with dry firing and guesstimating with a Crimson Trace system or similar. Though it looks like I might hold off as folks here are mentioning reliability issues, which is a bit much considering the price of these.

I'd still consider one (when they become reliable) as I'm getting ready to give Glock a try. Seeing as they molded it after the Glock platform, this might be a good way to speed up my transition to the Glock platform. I'm curious if these problems were mostly early/pre-production models or still an issue on current production items.

sff70

02-18-11, 20:52

When I first heard about the SIRT, I thought "gadget". Why would I buy one when I can put a piece of paper in my Glock and have a trigger that reset?

Saw one in person and was very impressed.

Received one as a gift prior to Xmas. It's from an early run. The trigger feel left something to be desired. Sent it in for a no-cost upgrade to current spec (nickel plated trigger components and some other things) and am very pleased with it. Well over 10k "shots" on it.

Have loaned it out to several of my co-workers, who have put it through its paces. Nothing broken yet. I will have a hard time getting it back from the guy who's had it the longest.

My primary focus is on the sights, it's how I call my shots. The green laser I see in my secondary focus and it makes it more apparent if I messed up a shot.

Did a lot of training with the SIRT and got my IDPA classifier score (total) down to 83 from 102-ish.

The SIRT magazines are indestructible thus far, and can be used in a real G17/G22/G19/G23.

They can be had for less than $400 if you are LE/MIL. Call NLT and ask for Dave H.

Mike_Hughes

06-27-12, 00:29

I am biased…. I made this thing…the SIRT Training Pistol.

Basically it is a tool for high volume, self diagnostic, sustainable training. That is a mouthful, but it boils it down. What we found was having it around made us train a lot more in a distributed manner verses a large single time block. I am all about getting our grip dialed in first and then hitting high volume training. My biggest concern is that shooters do not get enough initial training on grip and stance before hitting high volume repetitions.

But when shooter get their grip dialed in with a neurologically separated trigger finger, now they can train the gun manipulation to the Nth degree. When I first started shooting my first basic observation was that we were not getting the repetitions in compared to other endeavors (e.g. shooting single leg take downs in wrestling, lineman footwork in football, etc.). So i made the tool to aid me in the quest to win USPSA Production nationals. Still on that journey! I sucked too bad so I basically made my own sponsor, NextLevel Training. :)

Mike_Hughes

06-27-12, 00:39

At various points for students such as myself who were not sufficiently prepping the trigger, they had us switch to one of the SIRTs and we had another student watching the target to tell us if we were prepping, which results in a red dot followed by a green, or were jerking the trigger, which results in the red dot and green dot showing up simultaneously. I think for that purpose (learning proper trigger control) they're fairly useful, but I'm not sure I'd shell $400 for one given they have limited utility beyond that (as far as I know). Maybe if they were more like $150-200.

Just FYI, not trying to make an ad etc. but the new Performer has a red shot indicating laser and plastic slide and is sub $199 street price. It still has the trigger take up laser (red also but now take up laser is adjusted 6:00 out of sight picture from our factory).

No Joke, the green laser and metal slide is about 1/2 the Cost of Goods (COGs) in the SIRT Training Pistol 110 Pro. So a red laser with plastic slide dramatically cuts the costs… but the weight is not the same and not quite as durable as the metal slide (although none have broken yet to date).

I hear you on cost $349- $399 is a bit to shell out for a Pro, but check out some comments on the web, very pleased how shooters are getting utility from SIRTs and increasing their raw gun handling training.

Again, not trying to make an ad or be a jackass, but feel free to shoot me any questions.

Hogsgunwild

06-27-12, 05:40

Thanks Mike. I heard some good comments about these devices from two gentlemen at a course that I took recently. Nice work. Sounds like a good tool to have.

SPQR476

06-27-12, 11:06

I use one also--nearly every day. The one I've had longest has maybe...30,000 trigger presses or so, as a swag. Very, very useful tool.

Frailer

06-27-12, 14:09

Mike_Hughes

06-27-12, 14:45

I bought one of the Performer series models as soon as it was released. To say I am pleased would be an understatement. It's a great training tool, and I've seen significant improvement in my trigger control. While I don't use it in this manner, I could see its utility in force-on-force drills as well.

I have no connection with Mike or his company. I'm just a very satisfied customer.

Thanks for the feedback (will send you your $10. Joke). No.. you hit it on the head, trigger control is like the major deficiency. I would suggest jacking up your trigger break weight and adjusting the over travel for more overtravel. With a heavy break and a lot of over travel… you will really see gains in your trigger mechanics. This is a wicked drill to dial in trigger mechanics. http://kaizenpistol.blogspot.com/2012/06/cool-target-to-train-with.html (I hope it is not bad form to post other links). This shows using an old flood light as part of a target where we shoot a stickie pad in the middle. Objective: keeping the muzzle aligned on a small target during the initial break (sight alignment) and then all they way to full over-travel (trigger mechanics) is not easy. Try strong-weak hand only too. Good opportunity to get weak hand (support hand... whatever) up to par.
Now get a par timer and draw and hit the sticky in sub 1.6…. then 1.55…. then ….. 1.2! It gets addicting! We need these kind of addictions though!!

ranger5

06-27-12, 17:45

I purchased one of these training pistols from a local store and it was not working properly. I contacted the company and they immediately sent me a replacement pistol and a return label. No questions asked. The replacement is performing flawlessly. I believe this pistol will really help shooters learn proper trigger control. I recommend using it with a timer to add a little pressure.

Tuukka

07-10-12, 14:08

Got one through the European distributor earlier this year.

Season has started off pretty well :)

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/pic117.jpg

Need to tune the trigger a bit more as my Glock trigger is very smooth and light for a factory trigger now after c. 15K rounds, also need to change the sights on the SIRT.

The_Swede

07-10-12, 17:22

Shawn.L

07-10-12, 17:39

I have tested a SIRT for 5 minutes in a vendor booth during a match so I have a question. The little "shooting" I did with it I kept shifting focus between sights and laser all the time in order to evaluate my trigger press. That obviously made me loose my hard front sight focus when aiming for a dot on the wall or something similiar. How are you supposed to train with it? Using a partner to watch the laser so you can focus on the sights?

I set my laser so it is right behind my sights, so I see the splash in close and it sits just where the bullet would impact (tip of the blade) at distance. Im catching the splash in my vision without going eyes off the sight.

It also helps to use targets like I put a white card on a clear screen door, so I only see it light up if I hit. Or a clear Christmas bulb.

And lets be honest though, on close targets sometimes we see our hits as we make them. Maybe thats not perfect, but its reality.

Further, if you are on the sights you will get the hit.... so if you start looking for the laser be prepared to see misses. And be mindful of how you use it, a "bill drill" where you walk the laser in does nobody any good. I will also make sure to mix in traditional dry fire with slow perfect presses and pure sight focus with my sirt training.

milosz

11-17-12, 23:24

Looking for a little advice on which SIRT to get.

I'll be using the SIRT indoors 99% of the time - so I should be able to skip the green laser, yes?

Beyond that, I'm weighing the metal slide/plastic slide versions - the latter give up some ability to customize (magazine weight, take-up weight, some other trigger functions) and weigh a few ounces less than the metal slide version.

I'm leaning toward, at my current skill level, getting the basic Performer and in the future move up to the Pro if warranted. Any thoughts?

zacbol

11-18-12, 00:05

Just FYI, not trying to make an ad etc. but the new Performer has a red shot indicating laser and plastic slide and is sub $199 street price. It still has the trigger take up laser (red also but now take up laser is adjusted 6:00 out of sight picture from our factory).

No Joke, the green laser and metal slide is about 1/2 the Cost of Goods (COGs) in the SIRT Training Pistol 110 Pro. So a red laser with plastic slide dramatically cuts the costs… but the weight is not the same and not quite as durable as the metal slide (although none have broken yet to date).

I hear you on cost $349- $399 is a bit to shell out for a Pro, but check out some comments on the web, very pleased how shooters are getting utility from SIRTs and increasing their raw gun handling training.

Again, not trying to make an ad or be a jackass, but feel free to shoot me any questions.
Missed this and my original comment was from almost two years ago. Funnily enough, I got a bonus at work at the beginning of this year and decided spending money on a SIRT made more sense than one more gun I wouldn't end up shooting much. I saw the less expensive model but if you're gonna go, go big, so I got the Pro.

Was actually being fairly diligent for awhile and did see a noticeable improvement in my shooting. I also found the SIRT particularly useful to practice shooting from a retention/CQB position so that your POA is remains steady while moving to full extension.

Bulletdog

02-26-13, 15:02

I was going to start a new thread, but I found this old one after a search.

I bought the Pro version after trying them out at this years SHOT show. I have to say that I love it. I've always been an advocate of copious dry fire, but having to dig the gun out of the safe, manually cycle the action after each click, and getting no feed back from each shot, is definitely problematic. I can leave my SIRT out in convenient locations. The trigger resets itself infinitely. I see all my hits or misses as that green splash just behind my front sight. The result of all this is that I practice a heck of a lot more. Dozens or hundreds of shots a day at different times and locations, including night time. This has improved both my accuracy AND speed. Also, because I can keep it so handy, I've had the opportunity to introduce shooting to several house guests that might otherwise never have taken the time. I find it to be a good way to safely introduce fundamentals such as grip, stance, and trigger control, press, follow through and reset. The red laser on bottom that they cannot see lets me see what they are doing with the trigger.

My only affiliation with this company is as a paying customer, and I am extremely happy with the product and results obtained from its use. I highly recommend this product to anyone who shoots a pistol.