View Full Version : Noveske... Paying for a name?
TonyTacoma
11-25-10, 21:48
I've read through a sea of threads comparing this to that and should I buy this or that. Recently I'm sure most regulars to this forum know I've been asking questions in regards to not only my first AR build but my first long gun. I read a lot of info and ultimately decided to use a complete upper from Noveske with a 16" barrel. I can honestly say I have no buyers remorse, almost everyone I talked to, be it military/Leo or civilian told me to spend my money in the upper and that's what I did.
While at a local gun shop a friend of mine was thinking of buying a complete AR and asking for assistance from one of the employees. In the end my friend purchased a Daniel defense and it is a fine rifle, I've fondled it and shouldered it and I like it quite a bit. It also seems to be noticeably lighter than my Noveske set up. The point I wanted to bring up is that while guiding my friend to his purchase my friend inquired about Noveske rifles and if he though that he should consider purchasing one. The store worker informed my friend that Noveske did indeed make a fine product but they are heavily overpriced and that many gun makers, such as Daniel defense make a product that is at least as good if not better for much less money. He also informed my friend that most people buying Noveske rifle products are "buying the name" like buying designer jeans with an expensive logo on the back.
I myself won't cry about how much I payed for what I got, and honestly name didn't factor in to my decision, just the reputation of a great company. I'm not sure if the employee of this store was saying that people who buy Noveske products are gun snobs or just trying hard to sell a rifle. In either case it sparked my interest in what this great community of both civilian and professional firearm enthusiasts thinks about this. Another interesting comment made by the employee was: "I'm not sure why Noveske is considered top tier all of a sudden they just became known as the sh**."
So what do you guys think, is there a reason Noveske is so highly regarded, do they have a reason to charge more or are people just overpaying to have the novekse name?
I'm more surprised that the gun shop guy actually knew what a Noveske is.
Anyways, if you compare apples to apples, the Noveske isn't THAT much more than others.
But I have two, and I had no trouble paying a little more for Noveske's wonderful barrels and impeccable attention to detail and high standards.
billybronco
11-25-10, 22:04
for god's sakes.....why do people ask such questions. take the damn overwhelmingly positive feedback from all sources and take it for face value.
plus, why the noveske rifleworks tag next to your name in you're questioning the man's craftsmanship.
it looks like you're sold already.
why the flippin post????
YES. the man is dedicated to his work. YES. they are a small outfit. YES. that is a good thing.
TonyTacoma
11-25-10, 22:07
Sounds like you might not have read my post, ive already made my purchase with Noveske and I'm not sorry about it. I'm not asking if I should or why I should.
for god's sakes.....why do people ask such questions. take the damn overwhelmingly positive feedback from all sources and take it for face value.
plus, why the noveske rifleworks tag next to your name in you're questioning the man's craftsmanship.
it looks like you're sold already.
why the flippin post????
YES. the man is dedicated to his work. YES. they are a small outfit. YES. that is a good thing.
I figure people buy Noveske's cause they have several X's in the boxes on the "chart". For me it's that and the cool rollmark :cool:
It's a simple formula....great barrels, great quality control and great customer service.:)
It's a simple formula....great barrels, great quality control and great customer service.:)
Yep that too :D
rattlesnake
11-25-10, 22:30
You did great . Cannot go wrong with a Noveske! Good purchase! Gun shops try to sell what they carry so their opinions are very biased.
Did that particular store sell happen to not sell Noveske.....?
I think it becomes more a measure of refinement than "better than" at a certain point. As the owner of a 5 of the 6 Ar's that I would own, Colt being the only good one I don't, the Knights and the Noveske do seem a little more refined. With the Knights it's progressive refinement, with the Noveske it's attention to detail and as stated above, great customer service combined with excellent components. The Noveske I own is the heaviest AR I own, mostly due to the most accurate barrel I own as well. I don't believe it's just a name. When I ordered it I spoke to the man. We discussed what I expected to do with it and how long it would be. I ended up ordering 2 but later sold one. For what I wanted the Noveske Recon was the best for that task, regardless of name.
TonyTacoma
11-25-10, 22:49
Did that particular store sell happen to not sell Noveske.....?
They actually did sell them, the friend of mine liked my upper a lot and was considering purchasing one, but he was swayed by the staff to choose Daniel defense. Seems odd the salesman would not try to sell my friend the more expensive rifle.
I'm just curious why this person, and I don't think hes the only one, feel that Noveske is overcharging for a product that others are selling for less... DD makes a great rifle, dependable and good customer service, according to the salesman there's no reason to overpay to get the same or better results elsewhere.
Maybe the Employee was just trying to push the DD sale because it was a better profit.
I'm just curious why this person, and I don't think hes the only one, feel that Noveske is overcharging for a product that others are selling for less... DD makes a great rifle, dependable and good customer service, according to the salesman there's no reason to overpay to get the same or better results elsewhere.
Well I'm sure it's just like those uneducated folks out there who laugh at people who buy $2000+ Knights Armament ARs, when their $800 Bushmaster does the exact same thing...Some people just don't know, don't care, or have their loyalties else where.
The_War_Wagon
11-25-10, 23:05
Some people just don't know, don't care, or have their loyalties else where.
I love that last sentiment, because when it comes down to it - my CHIEF loyalty is to ME & my OWN - and I DON'T want their ultimate safety to ride on a Tier 3 rifle, should it all hit the fan!!! :eek:
A Noveske upper is in MY near future as well - probably this coming tax refund season. I already have a Noveske lower waiting for it. :cool:
I think people are willing to pay a premium price when they "know" they are getting a premium product and premium customer service. Plus it is OK to buy a procust just for "the name" if the the name can actually back up their reputation and Noveske does that. IMHO
abanks8245
11-25-10, 23:25
as in tacoma, wa , nevermind, i have shot a knights, and i can see their worth, but i also think i can see the worth with les baer's, wilsons , and ed browns, to the op, noveske barrels alone are worth the price, fit and finish, great customer service are great as well, it all preference , says "an average gunstore employee" ;)
Magic_Salad0892
11-25-10, 23:34
I miss living in Tacoma, even if their NFA laws are retarded.
Noveske makes a fine product. (Wish they used black extractor inserts though...)
Also... if you're into suppressors they make the switchblock.
Which is worth 1000 words.
Let me ask you guys this...if there's a Guy selling Brand A Ar15 and Sheri selling Noveske...You wouldn't buy a Noveske? :sarcastic:
TonyTacoma
11-25-10, 23:42
Tacoma, WA indeed born and raised, althogh I've moved recently I'm still close to Tacoma, it's in the blood haha.
as in tacoma, wa , nevermind, i have shot a knights, and i can see their worth, but i also think i can see the worth with les baer's, wilsons , and ed browns, to the op, noveske barrels alone are worth the price, fit and finish, great customer service are great as well, it all preference , says "an average gunstore employee" ;)
Maybe the Employee was just trying to push the DD sale because it was a better profit.
Without getting into specifics, Daniel Defense has better margins.
Why exactly did we start this thread? :confused:
TonyTacoma
11-26-10, 00:32
Why exactly did we start this thread? :confused:
Rather than ask the question why do people like this company I thought I would relate what I heard and hear the opinions of some people with direct knowledge of the guns in question. When I hear that I'm just paying for a name it makes me wonder who shares this opinion and why, in hindsight I guess this will just yield redundant results. Still I'm interested to hear he opinions of people who think that Noveske buyers are simply buying designer jeans while they are being smart and buying cheap pants that cover thier legs just as well.
Also I never considered the possibility that there may be more profit built into the gun the shop was recommending. While this does make sense it sort of makes me want to take my business somewhere were the employees are more objective. Or is that really even possible. Honestly, either way my friend ended up with a good rifle which is important in the end, I guess I find the "politics" intriguing.
Belmont31R
11-26-10, 00:40
Sad to say but I view a gun store employee as there to ring up a sale not offer advice. There are some good stores out there with some good people but in general....NO!
A few months ago I asked a C3 dealer about a Surefire can, and I got a speech about how evil it is to buy from a CA company. His main line is AAC. He has about 30 other SF products in his store like lights, ear pro, knives, ect but wasnt a stocking SF dealer like he is with AAC when it comes to cans.
abanks8245
11-26-10, 01:12
but we are consumers too, merely speaking for myself, i would never consider myself an expert, just another gun enthusiast willing to offer my opinion if and when asked, but their is worth with noveske ar15's are worth the coin. its ford or chevy, blond/brunette, end user driven, it hard to convince a person who drives a Mercedes-Benz that a Toyota Camry is just as good, yes they are both cars but the same
crowkiller
11-26-10, 01:15
I think it really comes down to what features a person wants on/in their carbine and if they are willing to pay extra $ for those features or if they think those features are worth the extra $.
Noveske 16" Light Recce FSR $1,990.00
Daniel Defense v3 LW $1,537.00
ETA: Never listen to gun store employees advise be an informed buyer and do your homework.
TonyTacoma
11-26-10, 01:19
but we are consumers too, merely speaking for myself, i would never consider myself an expert, just another gun enthusiast willing to offer my opinion if and when asked, but their is worth with noveske ar15's are worth the coin. its ford or chevy, blond/brunette, end user driven, it hard to convince a person who drives a Mercedes-Benz that a Toyota Camry is just as good, yes they are both cars but the same
I can see where your coming from but as far cars are concerned most people who drive a Benz will tell you that part of owning a car like that is a status symbol. While any car will get you around a Benz screams, I have money. Rifles could fall into this category but if that logic applied than people who bought expensive rifles would be doing it large part so others could see the rollmark on thief rifle and be jelous. This would confirm the idea that people by these rifles for the name.
Grease Monkey
11-26-10, 01:35
I think for alot it has to do with the name. I can't say my Noveske shoots better or is a better quality rifle than my BCM. It did cost more though, alot.
While Noveske is definitely a high quality product, I feel there's a bit of 'hype' behind it.
TonyTacoma
11-26-10, 01:55
While Noveske is definitely a high quality product, I feel there's a bit of 'hype' behind it.
Do you think you can elaborate on this "hype"? It's certainly not due to an aggressive marketing campaign. Just curious, all word of mouth?
alpha.kilo
11-26-10, 02:03
I have a couple of Noveskes, as well as some other AR rifles/carbines. To appreciate a Noveske, you need to shoot it side by side with another make of AR at 100 yards and look at the groups. Then 200 yards and 300 yards. Use identical optics and ammo. Measure the groups. Then you will have to decide if the Noveske's increase in ability is worth it.
I made that comparison a long time ago after I bought my first Noveske. At that time I decided that John Noveske's workmanship and his barrels were worth every cent paid. You may come to a different conclusion. That is why America is such a great country.
alpha.kilo
11-26-10, 02:04
delete
I think it really comes down to what features a person wants on/in their carbine and if they are willing to pay extra $ for those features or if they think those features are worth the extra $.
Noveske 16" Light Recce FSR $1,990.00
Daniel Defense v3 LW $1,537.00
ETA: Never listen to gun store employees advise be an informed buyer and do your homework.
Noveske 16" Light Recce Basic: $1480.00
Daniel Defense 16" XVM: $1429.00
The Noveske rifle comes with a Troy flip-up rear sight, VLTOR Stock, and Tango Down Grip. The DD rifle comes with a milspec M4 stock, A2 grip, and DD fixed rear sight.
The bottom line is this: both companies make good guns, and there are several others in the same price/performance category. I personally own two Noveske uppers and one DD - they both run like champs, and it really boils down to what each specific customer wants in their gun. That said, because this thread calls into question the value for money of Noveske products, I would encourage anyone who is considering the purchase of a Noveske product to call Todd, Joel, or John himself to discuss your purchase. I bet anyone a full load out of PMAGs that you'll be giving your credit card number for a Noveske upper/rifle after that conversation, and posting on M4Carbine.net a couple months later about how much you love it. John Noveske makes a hell of a rifle, period. My personal preference is for the N4 Light series, but YMMV - you can't go wrong either way.
Just my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.
richdkim77
11-26-10, 02:42
My personal preference is for the N4 Light series, but YMMV - you can't go wrong either way.
Just my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.
+1 for the N4 light series. I own 3 Noveske rifles, and my biggest gripe is I still don't own an Afghan. ;)
If you take into account Noveske's LE/Mil discount (if you qualify) and if you purchase an upper/rifle during the free lower promotions, I think the value is unsurpassed in my mind.
My point is this.
1. You already bought it, so who really cares what some cat at the local gun store thinks.
2. Many gun store employees are rather ignorant when it comes to recommending firearms. When it comes to AR's they will recommend any crap and claim that they are good.
3. I generally will not buy a complete AR. I buy the components and assemble as I want it.
Rather than ask the question why do people like this company I thought I would relate what I heard and hear the opinions of some people with direct knowledge of the guns in question. When I hear that I'm just paying for a name it makes me wonder who shares this opinion and why, in hindsight I guess this will just yield redundant results. Still I'm interested to hear he opinions of people who think that Noveske buyers are simply buying designer jeans while they are being smart and buying cheap pants that cover thier legs just as well.
Also I never considered the possibility that there may be more profit built into the gun the shop was recommending. While this does make sense it sort of makes me want to take my business somewhere were the employees are more objective. Or is that really even possible. Honestly, either way my friend ended up with a good rifle which is important in the end, I guess I find the "politics" intriguing.
While Noveske is definitely a high quality product, I feel there's a bit of 'hype' behind it.
What did you find lacking in your time spent with Noveske rifles?
After having fought the "you're just paying for the pony" fight re: Colt for years I finally have come to a different conclusion about how to address such things.
Yes, you are paying for the Noveske name on the side. You are paying for all that the iron cross logo means, to include top quality barrels, the kind of attention to detail that only a small shop can provide, great customer service, phenomenal accuracy, etc. You are paying for the logo because of what that logo represents, not simply because it's a pretty picture.
That said, I do think they are sometimes more gun than some people can or do take advantage of. I have seen quite a few guys with stainless Noveskes that don't use them for much more than run-n-gun at 50 yards and in, and in that case I think they're missing the potential of the product. It's not that the gun isn't worth the price, it's that they aren't taking advantage of all the benefits they paid for. Kinda like those guys that buy a sports car, or sport bike, and never take it to a track day.
Would John Noveske take advantage of his company's reputation in pricing his product? I don't know, but I do believe that the biggest part of the whatever higher cost of his rifles is the quality standards he imposes. He's rejecting a certain percent of parts because they don't meet his standards and I bet a fair amount of money that it's a higher percentage than the other rifle mfgrs that I priced. I felt that I was buying a rifle that was going to have more closely-inspected components and assembly with topnotch customer service, and I was willing to pay extra for it.
I can assure you Noveske didn't suddenly become the sh^&. They have been the S%$t for a while. They're barrels are second to none, PERIOD. I only own one Noveske now along with a DD, however, I have owned several and they all ran and were extremely accurate. If I could only own one rifle, it would be a Noveske.
Robb Jensen
11-26-10, 07:05
No need to debate the quality of a Noveske, they make fantastic quality rifles and have great customer service what more could someone ask for?
If you need to know how quality take a look at the chart.
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