View Full Version : Will an ar run dry?
I have a colt m4 that I want to hide in a good spot in my house. How can I lube it in a way that it will be ready for a year? Will a clean but dry colt run?
rattlesnake
11-25-10, 22:25
My 2 cents: Slap a ops-416 with fail zero bc, and pof roller cam pin on it, and run it dry.
I guess the short answer is "yes, AR's are capable of running dry" however just because they are capable doesn't mean they will when you need them most. It's a fairly safe bet to say that over a large sample a dry AR will always be less reliable than a properly lubricated one.
The more pressing question is why would you neglect the proper maint. of a tool which may be the one that saves you or your family? I don't know of any oil or lubricant which is just as effective a year from now as it is when you apply it. Lubricants that are thin enough to not congeal are thin enough to run out of the places they need to be and lubricants that are thick enough to not run out are the ones that "dry out" and become more viscous over time. Do yourself a favor and at least apply a good coat of a quality weapon oil to your carrier and upper reciever whether it be CLP, Militec, etc at least once every couple of weeks to a month.
Be weary of storing in a place that may promote rust....a gun with rust and pitting is No Bueno :cool:
The_War_Wagon
11-25-10, 23:08
POF's propaganda SEZ it will. :rolleyes: I wouldn't know - I run my POF-415 wet. I run my DI rifles wetter.
I MIGHT find out, come the Zombie Apocalypse, Chinese invasion, or Weimar dollar & associated riots. UNTIL then, they ALL run wet.
Just lube it with a good lube that won't dry out or run. I would use Mobil 1 synthetic or Slip 2k. I would also just give it a visual inspection every 45-60 days or so.
rattlesnake
11-25-10, 23:28
I doubt it'd dry out anyway. I would absolutley lube it before stashing it with mobile1 or synthetic atf. Fz bc and osprey ops 416 Imo would run dry but I always run wet. My bcm 14.5 lightweight carbine with ops-416 stays wet after many rounds and mag dumps. The bcg is actually luke warm after multiple mag dumps, and can be held in your hand. Still wet too.
Rifleman_04
11-25-10, 23:33
Will a clean but dry colt run?
Not for long.
If you apply some lube and store it you will be fine unless you plan on starting WW III. Your weapon will function more than adequately for a self defense scenario.
Belmont31R
11-26-10, 00:32
I would generously lube it with CLP since it has better corrosion resistance than SLIP EWL.
If you live in a dry climate like bum**** AZ then lube may not be so much an issue with long term storage. If your area has high humidity keep it lubed.
Also don't store it in a foam lined case. Id also recommend getting one of those "gun socks" to slip over the entire gun. Keep it in as dry of place as possible.
I use to go through several mags with a dry m4 at work. This is a battered, ragged out m4a1 at that. I wouldn't want to do it if I was planning on shooting more than 3 mags, but certainly for home defense situation where you might shoot 2-3 rounds at most, you'll be fine.
variablebinary
11-26-10, 02:51
I have guns in storage places that I haven't touched in like a year, and the BCG's still have a layer of militec, which tends to stick where you want it longer than CLP
Slip2000 EWL 30wt (http://www.slip2000.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60351&Category_Code=EWL). Best thing for storing. The thicker viscosity means it stays put longer. In the AR system over time thinner lube tends to run down the parts and pool up in the bottom of the receiver extension. The EWL 30 stays put so well that it's almost all I use anymore. Unlike thinner lube you'll want to put a few dabs on and then smooth it around with your fingers as it won't just spread itself around.
They make a 50 too, but I haven't tried the 50.
Militant83
11-26-10, 09:14
Like everyone else is saying lube it well,store it and every so often take a peek at it and make sure it is still lubed. If this is something that I was going to use as a home defense weapon I would check on it every so often anyways just to make sure it was where you had put it. It would make for a bad day if you went to get it one day when you really needed it and for some unknown reason it wasnt where you left it.
Yes.
http://www.defensereview.com/the-big-m4-myth-fouling-caused-by-the-direct-impingement-gas-system-makes-the-m4-unreliable/
Lube makes ARs run better. ARs run pretty much ok without it, especially before they are heated up through sustained firing.
Mobil 1 synthetic bearing grease (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Synthetic_Grease.aspx?WT.srch=1) in the tube at Wal-Mart or Autozone.
Will not ever drip off.
Works as well or better than any oil, especially once it gets HOT, since it will not run off like oil.
I've been running it in my AR's for years, including several very high round count classes (2500+ rounds in 2 days).
I live in one of the dustiest, sandiest places in North America and have never had any issues with the sand grease mix being a problem.
Simple answer: I've never torture tested any of my personal guns, but my belief is that a properly lubricated dirty gun will probably run longer & better than a clean dry one.
Before storing, I'd clean it & lube any parts that could rust if exposed to moisture. (Pins, springs, bolt, barrel, etc.) It doesn't take that long.
GermanSynergy
11-26-10, 10:20
A happy AR is a wet AR. A good quality weapon can run for a long time with lots of lube, but run it bone dry and you'll likely encounter issues before long.
I've applied 20w synthetic motor oil to an AR, stood it on end for 4 months, and when I took it apart, it was still wet to the touch.
Just use a thick lubricant and check it when you can.
xjustintimex
11-26-10, 10:36
Mobil 1 synthetic bearing grease (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Synthetic_Grease.aspx?WT.srch=1) in the tube at Wal-Mart or Autozone.
Will not ever drip off.
Works as well or better than any oil, especially once it gets HOT, since it will not run off like oil.
I've been running it in my AR's for years, including several very high round count classes (2500+ rounds in 2 days).
I live in one of the dustiest, sandiest places in North America and have never had any issues with the sand grease mix being a problem.
how do you apply mobil 1 to your AR?
theblackknight
11-26-10, 10:39
I have a colt m4 that I want to hide in a good spot in my house. How can I lube it in a way that it will be ready for a year? Will a clean but dry colt run?
Unless you plan on rough in your rifle behind some drywall in a stud space, lube it like normal. If you do, use the infamous TB25b weapons grease or motor oil.
how do you apply mobil 1 to your AR?
I know you're replying to a post about Mobil 1 grease (which I can't really speak to), but Mobil 1 oil is easy enough to apply with a soaked cleaning patch, a non-frizzy Q-tip, or a gun oil bottle emptied and refilled with Mobil 1. FWIW, I've used both Mobil 1 5W30 and 10W30 on numerous firearms with excellent results; it does seem to stay wet practically forever. I don't use it on the outside of the firearm, though, as that forever-wet property is a bit of a downside when it makes the outside of the rifle perpetually oily and slick.
To the OP, one thing to keep in mind about storing a dry rifle long-term is that *corrosion* is probably the #1 way to freeze up parts in long-term storage. Most AR parts are pretty corrosion resistant even dry, but it doesn't take much rust to bind metal parts, and it would be a serious bummer to grab your stored rifle and find it wasn't as corrosion-resistant as you thought.
xjustintimex
11-26-10, 10:57
thank you
I guess when I think of motor oil I imagine it dripping off the rifle and slinging everywhere compared to the oils I have used on my rifle. I'm gonna give it a try.
I know you're replying to a post about Mobil 1 grease (which I can't really speak to), but Mobil 1 oil is easy enough to apply with a soaked cleaning patch, a non-frizzy Q-tip, or a gun oil bottle emptied and refilled with Mobil 1. FWIW, I've used both Mobil 1 5W30 and 10W30 on numerous firearms with excellent results; it does seem to stay wet practically forever. I don't use it on the outside of the firearm, though, as that forever-wet property is a bit of a downside when it makes the outside of the rifle perpetually oily and slick.
To the OP, one thing to keep in mind about storing a dry rifle long-term is that *corrosion* is probably the #1 way to freeze up parts in long-term storage. Most AR parts are pretty corrosion resistant even dry, but it doesn't take much rust to bind metal parts, and it would be a serious bummer to grab your stored rifle and find it wasn't as corrosion-resistant as you thought.
JeykllnHyde
11-26-10, 13:04
I'm sure someone will yell at me, but the cheap penny pincher in me says lubing it with CLP will be good, but then just re-coat it occasionally with some WD40. Some may argue it may not be the best lube for a firearm, but in my experience it gets the job done if in a hurry and on a budget. It's just a really thin oil/lubricant.
:ph34r:
I'm sure someone will yell at me, but the cheap penny pincher in me says lubing it with CLP will be good, but then just re-coat it occasionally with some WD40. Some may argue it may not be the best lube for a firearm, but in my experience it gets the job done if in a hurry and on a budget. It's just a really thin oil/lubricant.
:ph34r:
WD-40 is a water displacer not a weapons lubricant. It dries to a waxy, nasty ass residue that is the last thing you want inside your gun.
I'm sure someone will yell at me, but the cheap penny pincher in me says lubing it with CLP will be good, but then just re-coat it occasionally with some WD40. Some may argue it may not be the best lube for a firearm, but in my experience it gets the job done if in a hurry and on a budget. It's just a really thin oil/lubricant.
:ph34r:
If you were really cheap you'd stop spending money on such a sub par lubricant as CLP and just pick up a $6 quart of Mobil 1 which will last a lifetime ;)
As for how to apply Mobil 1 oil, I simply strip my BCG down and clean with brake cleaner. I then coat my bolt with oil then reassemble. Rub a thin coat of oil on the carrier to prevent carbon and dirt from sticking then oil the rails and stick it back in the upper. That oil will stay where you put it and not run or burn off.
how do you apply mobil 1 to your AR?
With my finger, dip it into the tube of grease and smear it around.
I also keep some Mobil 1 15w-50 oil in a veterinary syringe to hit the gas rings and bolt immediately prior to a match or long range session.
Despite all the marketing hype, there are no secret gun oil refineries and laboratories. It all comes from the same base stock and the additive packages aren't any big secret gun only formula.
I've run thousands and thousands of rounds downrange on automotive oil and grease with zero issues and $20 will buy you a lifetime supply.
glockkid88
11-26-10, 17:06
+1 on tw25. I call it gun jizz and it never drains off of parts while in storage. I use this to store my ar and spray the BC with clp before a range session.
glockkid88
11-26-10, 17:09
Oh and I forgot, if you can afford a $1000 ar then you can definitely afford some decent lube designed specifically for weapons. Mobil 1 and wd40 don't apply. Just save your pennies and buy the tw25, cheap insurance since spare parts cost much more than a premium lube!
lube designed specifically for weapons.
When you discover the location of that top secret gun lube refinery why don't you take some pictures.
:sarcastic:
Why do the same people who mock" Extreme Shock!" ammunition advertisements buy "Gunlube 3000!" advertisement hook line and sinker?
glockkid88
11-26-10, 23:15
Jody H: I guess you would be one of the wd40 guys huh? I just don't understand why it is people are always trying to shoot down new innovation in weapons lube as if it's no better than the bearing grease that their grandads used on his guns for years. One question, did your grandad shoot ar's in training classes that require you to fire 800-1000 rounds over the course of a weekend? Are people so blind that they can't understand that the same breakthroughs going on in weapons and support gear are going on in the business of weapon maintenance and lubricants?
Jody H: I guess you would be one of the wd40 guys huh? I just don't understand why it is people are always trying to shoot down new innovation in weapons lube as if it's no better than the bearing grease that their grandads used on his guns for years. One question, did your grandad shoot ar's in training classes that require you to fire 800-1000 rounds over the course of a weekend? Are people so blind that they can't understand that the same breakthroughs going on in weapons and support gear are going on in the business of weapon maintenance and lubricants?
What are you talking about?
Lubricant is lubricant. What do you think is a bigger industry...firearms, or automobiles? Do you think Colt and Glock pour more money into the development of lubricants than the automotive industry?
Give me a break.
I ran a shitload of guns (50-60 rentals) on motor oil for about 6 months, and they ran better than ever. Those included pistols of every major brand, AR's, MP5's, UMP's, and anything else that came through there.
What is it in generic motor oil that makes it unfit for use in a firearm? Please, clue us in.
Jody H: I guess you would be one of the wd40 guys huh?
WD-40 is not a lubricant.
Go back and read the thread.
I use Mobil 1 grease and oil.
As to training resumes and round counts, I'll put mine up against anyone.
I've had many 2500+ round weekends in carbine and pistol training.
I've been heavily involved in training since the late '90's.
Again...
Where do you think your secret formula gun oil comes from?
Is the gun lube industry so large and competitive that hundreds of millions of dollars a year are spent on research and development?
You think Mil-Comm owns their own $1B refinery just to make gun oil?
You think Mil-Comm has a $200M+ research facility to test and develop new gun oils?
Or do you think they buy their oil from the same tap that every other "specialty" oil (gun oil, sewing machine oil, bicycle chain lube, handyman oils, etc) comes out of?
And that tap would be owned by one of the major refiners who use that same base stock as... car oil, transmission oil, etc.
Now we get into the additive packages.
You really think Mil-Comm spent a few million dollars to have a custom additive package developed just for them?
Or is it more likely they purchased the rights to use a generic "X-viscosity, X-detergents, X-additives with X-color and X-odor added"?
How much difference do you really think there is between a full synthetic car oil additive package and a gun oil additive package?
SuppressingFire
11-27-10, 08:59
I think this becomes an issue once you get to a high round count. Storing a gun inside your house and needing it to fire a few mags or so shouldn't really make a difference. If I remember correctly, 87GN has a gun or two that he put in excess of 2K+ rounds through, dry, without failure. If this is like a home defense gun and you pick it up in 8 months to thwart an intruder, I think it would be GTG, however, I would just lube it before storage with a high viscosity lube as already suggested.
The_War_Wagon
11-27-10, 09:17
Slick 50's household "1-Lube" makes a GREAT gunlube as well! I generally hit my rifles with some Weaponshield in the field, but after a thorough breakdown and cleaning, the 1-Lube will even CLING to the electroless nickel BCG and chamber of my POF!!! :eek: Ya' can't beat Slick50 for "slick!" :D
I 'll clue everyone who thinks dry is ok. When bare metal rubs against bare metal, it creates metal shavings, most of which are microscopic. These shavings then act as sandpaper to your quickly eroding parts. Doing it even a little is not good for it. Run a car with no lube. It will do it, but for how long? Hey, if you want to risk replacing your AR parts sooner than necessary, run um dry.
Motorcycle chain lube makes a great storage lube for guns.
I use a spray on dry lube with Teflon.
An Undocumented Worker
11-28-10, 16:50
Why not use Gear oil? the stuff sits in differentials for years at a time, is subject to rediculous loads and temp extremes, and is compatible with aluminum and steel. While it may run it still leaves a slimy slick film on whatever it has been in contact with, and certainly runs less than 20w motor oil.
NCSt8man1999
11-28-10, 18:19
FWIW, Smith and Wesson has come out with a dry lube that I had one of my guys run in a 3day Carbine Deployment class. Applied it once on Day 1, and never reapplied the entire class or cleaned it. Rifle (M&P 15) ran fine and never hiccupped once. That being said, I do not know how it would work in a long term application,but it was dry and "lubed".
arizona98tj
11-28-10, 22:47
Why not use Gear oil? the stuff sits in differentials for years at a time, is subject to rediculous loads and temp extremes, and is compatible with aluminum and steel. While it may run it still leaves a slimy slick film on whatever it has been in contact with, and certainly runs less than 20w motor oil.
Perhaps because it smells worse than ________ ......well, if you've smelled it, just fill in the blank, you know what I mean. :eek:
Personally, I love the smell of good old petroleum and synthetic distillates. I've even been known to take a swig of DOT3 brake fluid once in awhile.
Perhaps because it smells worse than ________ ......well, if you've smelled it, just fill in the blank, you know what I mean. :eek:
I know it's apples to oranges but I ran my brand new BCM 14.5" LW middy completely dry out of the box this weekend and it ran well for about 60 rounds. It proceeded to short-stroke every 2-3 rds after that.
GermanSynergy
11-29-10, 20:19
The moral of the story is _______?:D
I know it's apples to oranges but I ran my brand new BCM 14.5" LW middy completely dry out of the box this weekend and it ran well for about 60 rounds. It proceeded to short-stroke every 2-3 rds after that.
MarshallDodge
11-29-10, 20:34
I use a light Teflon based grease on my AR called Super Lube. I clean everything really well then take a Q-tip and wipe a shiny layer of it on all the contact points. Don't get carried away, just enough for a wet sheen then close the dust cover. It will stay put for a long time.
Underwood 43
11-29-10, 20:37
Amsoil has a gun oil . pretty sure its synthetic. I use it but also use the milcom grease and oil. The O'reilly's in town keeps the amsoil gun oil.
Personally, I love the smell of good old petroleum and synthetic distillates. I've even been known to take a swig of DOT3 brake fluid once in awhile.
well... that explains a lot...
:D
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