Accidental Mag Release on HK45

[zacbol]

So, as embarrasing as this is to admit, I've lately been having issues with accidentally hitting the magazine release on my HK45 while shooting. I'll be shooting and whoomp, the magazines falls out. Needless to say this is *not* a good thing.

This had happened maybe once or twice in the thousand or so rounds I'd put through the weapon previously, but at the most recent class I attended, Insights Intensive Handguns SKills (AAR here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=823522)) I started having the problem almost every time I came up to the line. I suspect it was exacerbated by "improvements" to my grip in which I took an even higher grip and placed my support hand further forward on the gun (my thumb is actually ahead of my index finger on the slide). The issue was so distracting I ended up buying a Glock and 1000 rounds of 9mm ammo just to be able to get my money out of the class.

I took another trip to the range last night and had the issue happen again. It doesn't happen on every mag (and no, it's not *one* particular mag) but it happens often enough that I couldn't really trust the weapon in a defensive situation until I figure it out. I persused the net a bit, but only found one other person who had this issue.

As far as I can tell, I *think* I'm hitting the left side mag release with the meat of my non-dominant palm during recoil. Interesting, I *never* have the problem while wearing gloves. Additionally, I would think that my dominant middle finger, which is positioned under the ambi mag release would prevent it from being actuated accidentally. I *can* correct the problem if I take a low grip on the gun, but obviously this is counterproductive in terms of recoil management and the gun ends up going off to the left during recoil rather than straight up and down.

Are there any ways to make the mag release smaller? (I think that could potentially fix the issue). Right now I'm sitting with about 2000 rounds of 45 ACP I purchased for the class and a gun I can't really trust. I will make quite a few more range trips, trying to analyze and correct the problem, before I give up and sell it (which will make me very as as I *love* the gun), but any help would be appreciated.

[skyugo]

take a dremel to the mag release. :confused: or just a file...

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Stop doing that.

[zacbol]

Thanks for the input! I'd rather not take a dremel to the gun but I can't say that hasn't crossed my mind. I also wonder if szomething like the Bowie Tactical Vickers package might address it. As I recall part of the package addresses the issue some have had with their trigger finger rubbing on the bump near the mag release. I wonder 8f in solving that issue it might also solve mine. Really i'd just like to fix my grip, but if its t the cost of compromising my grip it is not worth it. I keep dry firing trying to figure out how the hell its happening and I'll be damned if I can figure out.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Just out of curiosity:

Have you shot a P30, if so, does this issue still happen on the 9x19mm variant?

[zacbol]

Yes, I have shot a P30. A few times. And, no, I never had this issue. Of course, I didn't have this issue other than once or twice (out of 1000+ rounds) on the HK45 until my most recent class. I have been thinking I should rent the P30 at my local range again and see if it starts happening there too (They don't have an HK45 to compare with mine, that said I'm fairly convinced it's not the fault of the gun, but rather operator error)

[Magic_Salad0892]

I think it's a recoil management issue, with that style of magazine release.

It happens to me too on the HK45, and USP 45 models.

On the HK45C it goes away though. :no:

[zacbol]

I think it's a recoil management issue, with that style of magazine release.

It happens to me too on the HK45, and USP 45 models.

On the HK45C it goes away though. :no:
Thanks! That's really comforting. At least, I'm not totally alone! Hmm, so does it happen to you on the P30? Next time I'm at the range I'm going to rent one and compare and experiment a whole bunch. I wonder what is difference about the HK45c (for example is the release smaller) or is just the other ergonomics of the gun that cause you to place your hand elsewhere on it.

What I still find weird is that it seems to not happen at all when I'm wearing tactical gloves--which is a solution (of sorts) for the range and if I want to use it in classes. But unless I sleep with them on, it's not going to help much if I want to use the gun for home defense, etc.

[wesprt]

Feel your pain, had the same thing happen to me when I first shot one. Shifted grip a little and it wasn't a problem but the bottom of the release wore on my finger incessantly.

I'd own an HK45 yesterday if they had made it with a button release like every other auto pistol manufacturer of the last decade. Trying to be different is not always trying to be better. I admit my experience with it is limited to shooting drills with a couple of boxes of ammo but can anyone name a single benefit of that PITA release over a button?

[Magic_Salad0892]

Thanks! That's really comforting. At least, I'm not totally alone! Hmm, so does it happen to you on the P30? Next time I'm at the range I'm going to rent one and compare and experiment a whole bunch. I wonder what is difference about the HK45c (for example is the release smaller) or is just the other ergonomics of the gun that cause you to place your hand elsewhere on it.

What I still find weird is that it seems to not happen at all when I'm wearing tactical gloves--which is a solution (of sorts) for the range and if I want to use it in classes. But unless I sleep with them on, it's not going to help much if I want to use the gun for home defense, etc.

It doesn't happen to me on the P30 actually. Or any of the 9x19mm variants.

''can anyone name a single benefit of that PITA release over a button?''

It's cooler. And the Europeans are used to it. It's not a bad thing, pretty easy to use fast.

[Outrider]

can anyone name a single benefit of that PITA release over a button?

1) It is ambidextrous. If you are left handed or shoot strong hand and weak hand drills, it is a nice feature.

2) It is very difficult (impossible) to accidentally activate a mag release built into the trigger guard while the gun is riding in a proper holster. -Contrast that with pistols where the mag release is located on the grip. There are plenty of individuals who carry concealed and have returned to their car to see the mag from their carry gun sitting on the seat because their mag release button (especially the extended ones) was inadvertently activated.

3) The shooter does not have to rotate the pistol's grip to reach the mag release with the thumb. The shooter can use his trigger finger quickly and without much effort to release the mag.

-The reason people have a problem with them is mainly an issue of training. People like what they know and are familiar with. If someone had started you with an ambi mag release built into the trigger guard and suddenly you had to deal with a mag release on the side of the grip, you would probably be complaining about that because it is not what you are used to using.

[crazymoose]

I admit my experience with it is limited to shooting drills with a couple of boxes of ammo but can anyone name a single benefit of that PITA release over a button?

These are the same people who gave us the "heel" mag release decades earlier.

Honestly, I think it's just a matter of cultural differences in the shooting world. Similar to what I'd always heard about the Europeans being generally more taken with the idea of mag retention during reloads; how many non drop-free pistols or rifles do you see coming out of America vs. from European designers? Also, look at how long it took the Euros to come over to our side on the issue of bolt hold open devices. You'd hear about how it wasn't really necessary, or how it just invited dirt into the action. We Yanks want the old mag out in a hurry so we can get the new mag in.

[Magic_Salad0892]

1) It is ambidextrous. If you are left handed or shoot strong hand and weak hand drills, it is a nice feature.

2) It is very difficult (impossible) to accidentally activate a mag release built into the trigger guard while the gun is riding in a proper holster. -Contrast that with pistols where the mag release is located on the grip. There are plenty of individuals who carry concealed and have returned to their car to see the mag from their carry gun sitting on the seat because their mag release button (especially the extended ones) was inadvertently activated.

3) The shooter does not have to rotate the pistol's grip to reach the mag release with the thumb. The shooter can use his trigger finger quickly and without much effort to release the mag.

-The reason people have a problem with them is mainly an issue of training. People like what they know and are familiar with. If someone had started you with an ambi mag release built into the trigger guard and suddenly you had to deal with a mag release on the side of the grip, you would probably be complaining about that because it is not what you are used to using.

HK style magazine release is also more helpful with magazine retention reloads.

Hit release with your offhand thumb, on the way down grab the magazine that's on it's way out.

It's smoother for me on my girlfriends P2000 than it is with my on my Glock 17.

Then again I don't really practice magazine retention reloads. She does.

[Rosco Benson]

You might see if HK offers a heavier spring for the mag catch. I've owned two pistols that were prone to dump their mags inadvertantlly (while holstered, not while firing). One was a Kahr P9. The other a Colt Mustang Pocketlite. Both had catches that were undersprung. I bought a heavier spring from Cylinder & Slide for the Colt. Kahr sent me a replacement spring and catch.

For what its worth, I would consider the fact that after changing your grip to the au courant left thumb way forward on the frame, you started dumping the mag all the time. You might want to just go back to stacked thumbs or whatever you were using before.

Rosco

[spr1]

I purchased my first HK (P30) ever earlier this year. I tried to activate the mag release with my thumb a few times and realized how much that sucked, switched to using my trigger finger, and now I can't imagine why every pistol isn't designed with trigger guard paddle releases. I find it more natural, faster and I don't lose my firing grip.

To the OP, +1 on just moving your grip back closer to where you were before.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I haven't had the mag drop issue, but have decocked the pistol on more than one instance during an IDPA Match due to recoil. Getting a DA weight pull when you expect a SA weight is quite an eye opener, but doable.

[glockshooter]

You have three choices

1. Change your grip

2. Modify the gun

3. Pick another pistol

I do not have the same problem as you but had to make the same decision years ago. I shoot with an extremely high support hand and it would cause my Glocks to go to slide lock every once in a while. I decided when it cost me a top finish at a major IDPA match that something had to give. So I experimented for a little while and when I was done I was left with a flawlessly functioning gun free of shooter induced malfunctions. My slide stops on every Glock I shoot are now just big enough to lock the slide back and release the slide.

I also would like to point out that the HK USP mag release is one of the quickest and most efficient I have ever used. You just have to figure it out.

Matt

[calvin118]

The exact same thing happened to me, and the problem went away when I put a hogue grip on it (thereby changing my grip).

[500grains]

Make sure the barrel lines up with the axis of your forearm when you are pointing the pistol, grip the gun very tightly with your dominant hand. For now.

[zacbol]

Thanks so much everyone for the great suggestions. All of this is helping me with my thought process and figuring out the issue.

I will say I'm reticent to change my grip back as the change that precipitated this whole issue, resulted in a significantly improved accuracy--not that I was a great shot to begin with. That said, since I have a metric shit ton (exact measurement) of 45 ammo, I may start with my old grip and slowly move it up, mag by mag until I start having the issue. Perhaps I can be *almost* (I'm hoping) at the new grip without having the issue.

As for gripping more tightly, that is also something I changed as a result of the class. One visualization/explanation that was provided was holding a piece of molding clay. Mr. Holschen came around gripping each of our hands very lightly (to me) explaining if he was holding said clay, he'd be keeping it from falling, but it wouldn't be so hard the clay would be squishing through his fingers. Previously, I'd always gripped quite a bit more tightly, worried about 'limp wristing' if I didn't fight recoil. After class, I sort of learned to let recoil just 'happen' and manage it in the vertical plane which, along with the change it grip, improvement in my trigger control, stance, and sight picture, resulted in fairly significant improvement. Needless to say, I'm reticent to go 'backwards' and start crush gripping the gun. But as with hand placement, I suspect it's something I can play with. I'll have to isolate each variable independently, figure out where the tipping point is, then work back and decide if in fixing the issue, I still have an 'acceptable' grip.

Or if popping a Hogue grip, or changing a spring fixes it, I'm all for it!

[dewatters]

These are the same people who gave us the "heel" mag release decades earlier.


Actually, the Luger or the Borchardt were the first to use push-button magazine releases. In contrast, John M. Browning's designs until 1909 used heel-mounted magazine catches.

[zacbol]

Thanks everyone for your tips. I think I figured out the issue and thought I should share in case someone else has the same problem.

I went back to the range today at lunch and put another hundred rounds through the HK45. Interestingly I did not have a single instance of the issue. I was honestly a little frustrated and confused, but I tried to just enjoy shooting and figured if the issue cropped up, it would crop up and if it didn't maybe I'd subconsciously solved it.

But then I looked down at my hands after finishing a particular magazine and noticed my left middle finger had *slid* over my right middle finger so that my finger tip was on top of the magazine release on the right side of the gun. I'm about 95% sure this is what was happening. It also explains why the issue was not occuring when I wore tactical gloves. My fingers weren't slipping over one another, because of the rougher texture of hte gloves. Anyway, I may try to use a smaller back strap as a smaller grip may help, but I can also fairly easily solve this problem via a bit more discipline in how I wrap my non-dominant hand around my dominant hand. Problem solved...I think.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Thanks everyone for your tips. I think I figured out the issue and thought I should share in case someone else has the same problem.

I went back to the range today at lunch and put another hundred rounds through the HK45. Interestingly I did not have a single instance of the issue. I was honestly a little frustrated and confused, but I tried to just enjoy shooting and figured if the issue cropped up, it would crop up and if it didn't maybe I'd subconsciously solved it.

But then I looked down at my hands after finishing a particular magazine and noticed my left middle finger had *slid* over my right middle finger so that my finger tip was on top of the magazine release on the right side of the gun. I'm about 95% sure this is what was happening. It also explains why the issue was not occuring when I wore tactical gloves. My fingers weren't slipping over one another, because of the rougher texture of hte gloves. Anyway, I may try to use a smaller back strap as a smaller grip may help, but I can also fairly easily solve this problem via a bit more discipline in how I wrap my non-dominant hand around my dominant hand. Problem solved...I think.
Glad to hear that it is working out for you. Nothing is more frustrating than issues with your chosen sidearm.