View Full Version : need barrel help
need some help finding a good barrel. no shorter than 18 inches, preferably 20-22'', 1-8 twist. all input appreciated.
For what kind of weapon...?
-B
oh duh sorry for not specifying. this is for a dedicated precision long range setup.
thank you very much for the suggestion. i took a look at their barrels, and didnt even understand what i was looking at. i have tons to learn. would i be able to call them and tell them exactly what i want, and get a price then? i would like a 26 inch barrel in 1/8 twist for your standard .223/5.56. i dont understand this .223 wylde and all that other stuff.
The_Hammer_Man
11-29-10, 15:53
chamber types....
.223 : means exactly that. Don't EVEN think about firing 5.56 brassed cartridges through a barrel chambered for .223!
.223 Wylde: Splits the difference between 5.56 and .223 chamber dimensions so that you can safely fire higher pressure loads.
5.56 : Is what it is , heh. You can fire .223 cartridges through these as well as 5.56 military pressure loads.... BUT, depending on who made the barrel you may, or may not, experience case bulge or popped primers due to excessive, for that cartridge, chamber pressures.
This is a layman's explanation not a technical one.
ahhh ok thank you very much for clearing up the wylde explination i had no idea it was called that nor did i know they made an inbetween. i wish my mini 14 had a wylde barrel :(
The_Hammer_Man
11-29-10, 16:42
Got stuck with a stainless Mini-14 as my first patrol carbine. HATED that thing!
Was sooooo glad when the PD I was working for switched to Colts.
Got stuck with a stainless Mini-14 as my first patrol carbine. HATED that thing!
Was sooooo glad when the PD I was working for switched to Colts.
yea im startin to not like mine either. cant put a scope on it, its im more accurate with my snub nose colt cobra at 25 yds, and its so high maintanence.
I would strongly recommend looking at the 1in8" twist SS410 barrels from Bravo Company. My is a certifiable tack driver.
Cameron
I would strongly recommend looking at the 1in8" twist SS410 barrels from Bravo Company. My is a certifiable tack driver.
Cameron
i have, and they dont have what im looking for. thanks for your suggestion and input though greatly appreciated.
The_Hammer_Man
11-30-10, 03:00
That advice about Stainless barrels is good to go.
If you need a specialized length barrel then you'll need to contact one of the custom barrel makers directly.
When you do you'll need to have your ducks in a row.
Info they'll need in order to give you a quote that is a wild assed guess.
Profile: bull/heavy/ medium/light
Fluting/Dimpling : yes or no?
Threaded for a muzzle device? yes/no ?
Barrel Twist: 1:7,1:7.7, 1:8 and so on.. research this!
Chamber dimensions: This is extremely important make sure you know what you want.
All that said you have some homework to do young man!
Grins,
TJ
That advice about Stainless barrels is good to go.
If you need a specialized length barrel then you'll need to contact one of the custom barrel makers directly.
When you do you'll need to have your ducks in a row.
Info they'll need in order to give you a quote that is a wild assed guess.
Profile: bull/heavy/ medium/light
Fluting/Dimpling : yes or no?
Threaded for a muzzle device? yes/no ?
Barrel Twist: 1:7,1:7.7, 1:8 and so on.. research this!
Chamber dimensions: This is extremely important make sure you know what you want.
All that said you have some homework to do young man!
Grins,
TJ
lol i sure do dont. thanks alot for your help man i really appreciate it.
If your looking into a Kreiger, a good option is to have your smith buy a unchambered DMR profile and have them change the length/profile and chamber to your specs. It's expensive either way, but you get a great barrel to your specs.
Profile - for dedicated precision rigs, the barrel profile is easy. Bull barrel (which is believe are 1 inch behind the gas port, .750 at the gas port, and then slightly slimmer from the port to the muzzle, though it may vary.
If you want to pay for fluting it is expensive and won't make the gun any more accurate, but it will reduce weight. It should also make it cool quicker, but this is less of an issue with a precision rig anyway (less rapid fire volume shooting). Same with dimpling.
Muzzle - you can go with a target crown, or threaded for some type of muzzle device (like a break). In theory the target crown is best for a precision rig, but in practice I don't think it makes a big difference. The break may help you, especially with follow up shots. It also helps with looks.
Length - for dedicated precision rig, go with 20 inch. The loss in velocity over an 18 isn't that big, but if it is a dedicated precision rig you are trying to wring out as much velocity you can so you can maintain velocity at longer ranges. If you aren't shooting past 200 yards this doesn't make as much of a difference. You don't often see 20+ inch barrels with 1/7 twist rates (they are usually used more for varmint rigs) so if you are wanting to shoot larger bullets (77 grain) it might be easier to find the barrel length plus twist combo if you go with a 20 inch barrel (though if you go custom you can get whatever you are willing to pay for).
Barrel material - obviously stainless steel. Don't stay up at night worrying about what kind of stainless steel it is. Find out who the manufacturer of the barrel blank is. Not who profiles and chambers it, but where did the blank come from. Know what you are paying for. THEN make sure the person profiling and chambering it is competent.
If you want a premium barrel Krieger make high end cut-rifled barrels AR barrels, and they offer them in twist rates other manufacturers don't (like 1-6.7, 1-7.7, etc). If you want a really good barrel but not top of the line, there are plenty of really high end button rifled stainless barrels out there that shoot like tack drivers and not only win competitions but see military use. The Krieger will cost you about $100 over the equivalent barrel (assuming same finish etc).
Chamber - for precision rifle, Wylde seems to be the trick. There is no reason to put a 5.56 chamber on a precision rifle that is going to be shooting match ammo all the time anyway. True .223 chambers shouldn't be used in AR type rifles imho where you might be tempted to pop off some M193 on occasion (hey even match rifles need brass for reloading). Wylde is just right.
There are other chamber spec options, such as CLE chamber (some HP shooters use), 5.56 NATO Match (which is used on some small amount of military rifles) and I believe the SPR has a unique chamber profile.
IMHO you are better off using a Wylde chamber on a precision rig for a few reasons. You more often see SPR and 5.56 match chambers in off the shelf SPR and DMR clone barrels or SPR/DMR clone uppers (where the intention is to stay true to the military spec). I can't imagine any custom barrel maker would recommend an obscure chamber, and I don't see that there would be any accuracy benefit to using either chamber over a Wylde Chamber. YMMV. If you are buying a quality barrel with one of these chambers I wouldn't sweat it.
Finish - you can go naked Stainless, or go with some type of coating if it suits your fancy. Gunkote or whatever doesn't help the gun be more accurate, so you are dumping money into the looks of the gun (or if you are .mil to make it anti-reflective maybe).
You can get an off the shelf precision barrel because they are used in competition extensively (high power rifles use 20 inch bull barrels, and the USMC SAM-R actually used a 20 inch Krieger highpower profile barrel). Plenty of high end rifle makers that get alot of respect on these forums, such as Noveske, will sell you a rifle with a quality button rifled barrel on it (i think they use Pac Nor barrels?). BCM stainless barrels seem to be getting praise here since they were introduced, though I do not know who makes their blanks.
Some food for thought. Don't forget to save some money for a nice trigger.
i have, and they dont have what im looking for. thanks for your suggestion and input though greatly appreciated.
What are you looking for?
I thought you said 18-20" precision barrel in 1in8" twist. They sell exactly that, and are on par with Kreiger or Criterion barrels.
Cameron
What are you looking for?
I thought you said 18-20" precision barrel in 1in8" twist. They sell exactly that, and are on par with Kreiger or Criterion barrels.
Cameron
Krieger and Criterion barrels are not in the same class. The former is a premium cut rifled benchrest competition quality barrel, the second is a quality button rifled (mass produced) barrel. Thus the cost difference. The BCM barrel is a quality button rifled barrel, but it isn't on par with a $300-a-blank cut rifled barrel. Nothing wrong with button rifled barrels though. Most (including me) don't shoot well enough to notice the difference.
If you are building a rifle then a Krieger, Shilen, or Pac-Nor, all offer diff. options as blanks or drop in barrels. No matter which you decide I would strongly suggest sending your bolt you plan on using or ordering a matched set. If you haven't started a build yet Stag Arms Model 6 is a 24" with a 1/2 " MOA factory guarantee. I have one of the M4 versions and I'm very happy with it. Just a suggest if your on budget.
A little clarification on the 223 chamber- It isn't that the chamber will not handle the higher pressures of the 5.56, it's that the throat is shorter and the leade angles are steeper. This can let the ogive of the 5.56 bullet come in contact with the rifling which causes pressure increases, possibly to dangerous levels.
White Oak offers 26" barrels
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/barrels/mrbarrel.jpg
They also offer complete uppers
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/custom_uppers/mruppers3.jpg
The folks on the National Match forum speak highly of WOA uppers
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/
GermanSynergy
12-26-10, 07:59
I'm very pleased with my Lilja 20" Super SAM barrel on my MSTN built upper. It is the heaviest barrel profile I've ever seen on an AR platform, and I got the last one Wes had.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/SuperSAM.jpg
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