Headstamp matching, pocket cleaning..

[Mike169]

New to this particular forum, but I've been reloading 9mm for about a year or so now, I've also loaded about 300 rounds of 223 but just recently got a trimmer. Before that I was just going through my bucket of brass and finding all the brass that was between 1.750-1.760 and loading that.

I got my trimmer, and I'm doing it the right way this time. Clean, Size, Trim, Clean, load. I have two questions, both are related to practice ammo and not match grade ammo.

1. If all brass is trimmed to 1.750 as it should be, is there any value to headstamp matching?

2. Is there any value to pocket cleaning with practice ammo?

Thanks!

[markm]

1. NO, and...

2. NO.. pocket cleaning hasn't shown to improve anything... EVEN on precision ammo.

[mizer67]

I have to disagree with the other poster.

1.) Yes, absolutely sort by head stamp for rifle. I do that and sort by weight in 1/2 grain increments for match rounds and it's brought down my ESs, SDs and improved my groupings. 1 grain increments by weight for practice ammo the first time through new brass and I've still measurably improved my ESs, SDs and groups. Pistol I wouldn't bother.

2.) I have no data to support primer pocket cleaning helps <=100 yards. I still do it on every rifle round, though. Force of habit & it doesn't take that long.

It really depends on what you expect of practice ammo. If minute of torso at 100 yards is good enough, then don't bother with either.

[markm]

He specifically said practice ammo and not match grade ammo. Head stamp sorting is a total waste of time for that.

And Shooters with much more precision experience than I have done 40-50 round tests with both cleaned and non-cleaned primer pockets. There was zero difference in the test I saw.

NOW... if he was wanting to build precison ammo, I'd say he'd definitely want sorted and weight grouped brass.

[michael word]

I would always sort by headstamp as the internal volume of the different lots of brass can vary and may cause excessive pressures in some instances. I always clean the primer pocket to help prevent a high primer situation that my result in a slam fire, especially important in semi-auto firearms.

[mizer67]

He specifically said practice ammo and not match grade ammo. Head stamp sorting is a total waste of time for that.

And Shooters with much more precision experience than I have done 40-50 round tests with both cleaned and non-cleaned primer pockets. There was zero difference in the test I saw.

NOW... if he was wanting to build precison ammo, I'd say he'd definitely want sorted and weight grouped brass.

Depends on the type of practice you're doing. Doing drills off hand at 50 yards, I agree, any extra case prep you do is probably going to be in the noise.

However, shooting at any distance, or looking for sub ~2 MOA groups, I'd definately sort and weigh cases. You only have to do it once, and it only takes an hour or two to do 1K cases with a digital scale.

Primer pocket cleaning is probably a step you can skip for accuracy, but unless you've trued the pockets of all your brass, I'd still do it just because I don't want a high primer to ruin my day.

Since I only shoot ~7K of .223 a year, I want every round to be the best I can manufacture, even if I'm just doing short range drills. But that's just me, everyone else can do whatever they feel necessary.

[markm]

I would always sort by headstamp as the internal volume of the different lots of brass can vary and may cause excessive pressures in some instances

Most brass internal volumes are very close. I think PMC or one of those brands has a slightly smaller internal volume. But for PRACTICE ammo it SHOULD BE a non issue... I say that because I see no sense in loading practice ammo at or near max.

Thus, internal case volume isn't critical in my experience.


I always clean the primer pocket to help prevent a high primer situation that my result in a slam fire, especially important in semi-auto firearms.

I've never cleaned a single primer pocket in over 30 thousand rounds of .223 and God knows how many pistol rounds. It does nothing functional, and a rare high primer is easy to catch because I can feel it in my machine as I index stations.

Now that I've gone off my 550b for priming, I never get priming defects anymore. And now have even less of a reason to clean primer pockets.

(I guess I should say that I did clean a limited amount of brass in my ultrasonic cleaner... which ended up cleaning out primer pockets. There was absolutely no difference in priming or function of those cases.)

Just my experience.

[markm]

I want every round to be the best I can manufacture, even if I'm just doing short range drills. But that's just me, everyone else can do whatever they feel necessary.

That's my approach too. I mean.. I reload to make better ammo than I can buy at a lower price than retail factory ammo.

I've just found that some things yield me no gain. I do sort cases by kind so that I have them batched by need for primer crimp removal, etc. But once they're primed, once fired brass.. they're a commodity to me.

To me focusing on other areas like limiting bullet runout, and using good components are more effective ways to make accurate and consistent ammo.

My mixed brass ammo will hold 2 moa on a good day where I can see the irons well. I don't need better than that for practice.

[mizer67]

That's my approach too. I mean.. I reload to make better ammo than I can buy at a lower price than retail factory ammo.

I've just found that some things yield me no gain. I do sort cases by kind so that I have them batched by need for primer crimp removal, etc. But once they're primed, once fired brass.. they're a commodity to me.

To me focusing on other areas like limiting bullet runout, and using good components are more effective ways to make accurate and consistent ammo.

My mixed brass ammo will hold 2 moa on a good day where I can see the irons well. I don't need better than that for practice.

I've noticed a huge difference in internal case volumes in mixed range brass. Rarely a huge difference between Federal and PMC per se, but between Federal and Privi or IMI, etc. the difference is very noticeable - 10 grains or more on average. I generally see at most a 3.5 grain variation amongst LC same headstamped brass, though, as a comparison.

My practice load for a long time was 26.5 grains of Varget over 55s. That was a compressed load, and variable case volume made a big difference in ES. When I was using X-Terminator, which wasn't a compressed load, I still noticed a large variance in ESs, so I quit using mixed brass and bought a mess of Lake City and sorted by them all by weight. Long story short, big difference in accuracy and consistency.

The primer pocket cleaning is probably a placebo effect, but it does make sense to me that consistent seating would lead to consistent ignition and therefore better accuracy. I just think the difference is small enough that no one will notice in the type of shooting we do. I still do it though, call it obsessive or a waste of time, but it makes me feel better. :laugh:

Bullet runout hasn't been a problem for me since buying a Redding Comp. Seating die. Before that, I would get a handful of rounds that were .005 or even .007, with most being .002-.003. Now, I only have the rare round that's >.003, with most being .001 or better. That was a worthwile $90.

[davidz71]

I use only Remington-Peters and Federal Cartridge non-crimped cases for my reloads in 223 because I have access to the brass. I never clean primer pockets but use to in 22-250 as well as 220 Swift varmint rifles when I was ground hog and crow hunting. I don't even clean the primer pockets for my 280 deer rounds.

I do separate the head stamps because I always have with all my weapons. I'm anal, what can I say?

[7 RING]

New to this particular forum, but I've been reloading 9mm for about a year or so now, I've also loaded about 300 rounds of 223 but just recently got a trimmer. Before that I was just going through my bucket of brass and finding all the brass that was between 1.750-1.760 and loading that.

I got my trimmer, and I'm doing it the right way this time. Clean, Size, Trim, Clean, load. I have two questions, both are related to practice ammo and not match grade ammo.

1. If all brass is trimmed to 1.750 as it should be, is there any value to headstamp matching?

2. Is there any value to pocket cleaning with practice ammo?

Thanks!

What kind of practice ? High Power, USPSA, CQB, plinking ?

[simple1]

I'd say measure and see for yourself.

I used to sort. Then I measured the volume of 20 cases each of LC, RP, PMC, and Fiocchi. Each headstamp from the same lot #. I found the variance between different headstamps to be of marginal difference than the variance within the same headstamp. After that I quit sorting.

If I were loading for precision or running very hot loads I might have a different view.

I can't speak to primer pocket uniforming/cleaning. I don't do it so I wouldn't know if it provides any benefit. I've reloaded 1000's of rounds and not had a problem though.

I think Molon posted a graph showing differences in volume among different stamps here a while back. It would be worth searching for.

My .02 only.

[7 RING]

Molon is correct. There is a noticable difference in case volumes in different kinds of brass which have an effect on chamber pressures and points of impact at 300 yards and 600 yards.

If you are shooting at distances of 100 yards or less or are not loading for a CMP High Power match I would not worry about sorting cases. That is if you use a moderate powder charge.

If you are precision shooting or loading your rounds with maximum powder charges, sort your cases by headstamp and dates on the headstamps.

[Mike169]

My current practice is all at 150yds or less, with the majority of the practice being at 25 yards and under.

[7 RING]

My current practice is all at 150yds or less, with the majority of the practice being at 25 yards and under.

Don't bother sorting cases then. I would recommend loading 55g bullets at 2600 fps. They would be low pressure and cheap to reload.