View Full Version : Shooting Demonstrations using a Live Human!
D. Christopher
12-01-10, 22:58
I have no words, there is just so much wrong with this that I wouldn't even know where to begin. Read the story and watch the videos, you really have to see it to believe it. At least the guy didn't kill anyone, this time.
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2010/10/08/firearms-training-incredible-videos-and-my-comments/
I wonder how many people he had to go through to get it right with this guy :sarcastic:
that's unacceptable use of a firearm.
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I can do that...just stand over there and let me show you...
Takes a pretty arrogant guy to shoot and an idiot to stand there and let him.
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that's unacceptable use of a firearm.
Screw that, that's unacceptable use of a human.
I heard that some elite special forces train with their team members as hostages. i don't think they use shotguns though...
also not sure it's true :confused:
Suwannee Tim
12-02-10, 05:14
To say this practice is wildly irresponsible is redundant but I will anyway. This guy Ignatius Piazza who owns the Front Sight Institute, he's a chiropractor and I don't call them "doctor", is linked to the Church of Scientology. Not wanting to be sued, I will not say what I think of this "church", I am sure you can well imagine.
sandman99and9
12-02-10, 08:09
"Stupid is as stupid does" That guy downrange at the target has some large caliber balls of steel though:eek:
S.M.
montanadave
12-02-10, 08:09
Frontsite stumbles all over themselves in the copy accompanying the vids to disavow their involvement or endorsement of the shooting demonstrations, but still posts the vids for "educational" purposes.
Nice try!
Posting demonstrations of irresponsible firearms training (by anyone) seems like nothing more than a publicity stunt to gin up some traffic on their website.
And undoubtably there is some half-wit somewhere who will attempt to replicate the demonstrated drills so they can post it to YouTube with tragic results.
sandman99and9
12-02-10, 08:14
Kind of reminds me of this dumbass !! I think this was from last year sometime but can only imagine this as a " hold my beer while I do this moment"
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1238543381/Dumbass_Regrets_Testing_Bullet_Proof_Vest_Vs_9mm
S.M.
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1238543381/Dumbass_Regrets_Testing_Bullet_Proof_Vest_Vs_9mm
I wonder what the bruise on his heart looks like.
Frontsite stumbles all over themselves in the copy accompanying the vids to disavow their involvement or endorsement of the shooting demonstrations, but still posts the vids for "educational" purposes.
Nice try!
Posting demonstrations of irresponsible firearms training (by anyone) seems like nothing more than a publicity stunt to gin up some traffic on their website.
And undoubtably there is some half-wit somewhere who will attempt to replicate the demonstrated drills so they can post it to YouTube with tragic results.
I think you nailed it right there. This is about as irresponsible as irresponsible gets.
I heard that some elite special forces train with their team members as hostages. i don't think they use shotguns though...
also not sure it's true :confused:
I've read about this in a Delta Force book written by a former operater when they were first established, every guy would have to play the hostage
"tens of millions of gun owners who have never had the benefit of learning Front Sight’s remarkable, responsible, and SAFE firearms training. "
Isn't this the same school that caught shit for letting camera guys film and take pics standing down range while their students were firing?
"tens of millions of gun owners who have never had the benefit of learning Front Sight’s remarkable, responsible, and SAFE firearms training. "
Isn't this the same school that caught shit for letting camera guys film and take pics standing down range while their students were firing?
And they've have students shoot themselves as well :sarcastic:
RancidSumo
12-02-10, 12:33
"tens of millions of gun owners who have never had the benefit of learning Front Sight’s remarkable, responsible, and SAFE firearms training. "
Isn't this the same school that caught shit for letting camera guys film and take pics standing down range while their students were firing?
I don't think so. I remember that but I don't remember the name of the school. I know it wasn't Front Sight though.
Isn't this the same school that caught shit for letting camera guys film and take pics standing down range while their students were firing?
No. If I'm not mistaken, that was Tactical Response.
Front Site's the one that gives you a free XD if you pay them 1,500 dollars. It's a good deal!
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What always got me about the dude in the BP vest is, where do you find friends that would be willing to shoot you? His buddy didn't just shoot at him, he took a center mass heart/lung shot. What a buddy?
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sandman99and9
12-02-10, 13:29
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What always got me about the dude in the BP vest is, where do you find friends that would be willing to shoot you? His buddy didn't just shoot at him, he took a center mass heart/lung shot. What a buddy?
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Yeah, I would hope my friends would smack me in the head and say WTF were you thinking ??
S.M.
No. If I'm not mistaken, that was Tactical Response.
That's it. Thanks.
I heard that some elite special forces train with their team members as hostages. i don't think they use shotguns though...
also not sure it's true :confused:
Thatcher among others have played the hostage in a hot kill house demo for the SAS...
CarlosDJackal
12-02-10, 14:40
I heard that some elite special forces train with their team members as hostages. i don't think they use shotguns though...
also not sure it's true :confused:
And they don't start off with the intention of shooting the hostage. :eek:
Thatcher among others have played the hostage in a hot kill house demo for the SAS...
hmm guess it does make sense if you're training for the real deal. I'd sooner trust delta force guys than some clown from frontsight though :o
Gutshot John
12-02-10, 15:24
F*&^%ing retards.
And that includes anyone who would post such a video as much as actually do it.
I think we all know what safe gunhandling looks like.
If you need a video like this to explain it, than you shouldn't have a gun...PERIOD.
What's really a scary thought is that you are going to get some knucklehead who thinks he can do the same thing try it and end up killing or seriously wounding someone. Unbelievably irresponsible of Frontsite to even post something like this.
hmm guess it does make sense if you're training for the real deal. I'd sooner trust delta force guys than some clown from frontsight though :o
Dude, I was simply adding that in based upon the Delta statement made... These guys are complete re-TARDS and the Pizza man is despicable in my book.
This video was discussed a while ago on FTT, so I am out of insults for not only the shooter and the dumb ass letting someone shoot at him, but also for the Pizza man...
hope some gang guys see this and do it with their fellow bros and see who is better ! might weed some out the natural way
The best explanation of this practice I have heard goes as follows: You and a training partner that you have COMPLETE confidence in do the shoot/target thing. It is not for 2 random guys at a gun school. And some "special" teams kick you off if you won't be downrange at least once.
As for body armor...... Didn't the inventor of Second Chance shoot himself with a 44 mag to demo his armor?
Gutshot John
12-03-10, 09:26
As for body armor...... Didn't the inventor of Second Chance shoot himself with a 44 mag to demo his armor?
The key word being "himself" and he did it to prove his product not show what a badass/moron he was.
What's really a scary thought is that you are going to get some knucklehead who thinks he can do the same thing try it and end up killing or seriously wounding someone.
I view that as chlorine in the gene pool.
theblackknight
12-03-10, 19:53
is front sight credible in anything? They always seemed like a bunch of clowns to me.
Somewhere out there a redneck is thinking: "Aww shucks, that ain't nuthin. Hell I used to use my little sister the same way years ago to sight ma rifles in and nuthin ever happened to her. Dang."
Then there's the video floating around the net showing some knucklehead shooting a watermelon off his buddy's head with a .50BMG.
Like to see him trying to explain to the popo how he just turned his buddy's head into pink mist because it seemed like a good idea and he'd never missed before...
Gutshot John
12-03-10, 20:58
Then there's the video floating around the net showing some knucklehead shooting a watermelon off his buddy's head with a .50BMG.
Like to see him trying to explain to the popo how he just turned his buddy's head into pink mist because it seemed like a good idea and he'd never missed before...
That video is a fake, or rather a gag. They showed how they pulled it off. It wasn't real.
Gutshot John
12-03-10, 20:59
Somewhere out there a redneck is thinking: "Aww shucks, that ain't nuthin. Hell I used to use my little sister the same way years ago to sight ma rifles in and nuthin ever happened to her. Dang."
Reminds me of the old joke..."how do you castrate a readneck?"
Different punch line, same outcome...self-correcting problem. :sarcastic:
Patrick Aherne
12-03-10, 21:59
"Hold my cerveza and watch this!"
I heard that some elite special forces train with their team members as hostages. i don't think they use shotguns though...
also not sure it's true :confused:
SAS used to do this until they had a few casualties. Generally officers sat in as hostages, and in the past even members of the Royal family.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4709/0001ryj3.jpg
This is a picture of Charles and Diana during a live fire exercise. There are obvious benefits to this sort of thing. Troopers get over the experience of "doing it live" the first time during training rather than when it counts. Those who are part of the downrange experience learn to become comfortable in such an environment (or as comfortable as one is able to be) and can retain their focus. And in the case of members of the Royal family, it gives them an expectation of what to expect should they ever need to be rescued.
That said, there is a viable argument for risk vs. reward for this kind of training. The SAS did it for a long time because they were able to do it without incident. But sooner or later, no matter how well trained you are or how controlled you believe your environment is, you are still playing the odds and Vegas always wins. While they never popped a Royal or any other VIP (as far as I know) they had two or three fatalities (trying to do this from memory) in a short span of time and the practice of live hostages in the kill house in close proximity to targets was discontinued.
I should point out when officers or other SAS members stand in as hostages they are a LOT closer to the targets than the Royals in the picture.
Thatcher among others have played the hostage in a hot kill house demo for the SAS...
True, but when Royals play they generally aren't downrange, just simply in the room. That said if any of them were up for the experience, it would have been Thatcher.
SAS officers on the other hand were commonly seen seated right next to the targets. This was done to keep people focused, paying attention and not easily surprised.
And even hairier trick was a two team exercise with multiple entries where Team A and Team B engage targets in close proximity to each other with Team A engaging targets near Team B that are visible to Team A but not to Team B but are in position to threaten both teams and vice versa.
Ego Stroking / Show Boating. That's all it is.
I mean sure it could elevate pressure/tension, but, to me, it's not worth the risk.
Someone will die from it eventually, mistakes happen, if it's worth it to look cool, to hit a guy in the melon with 9mm.
If you can live with that, then go ahead. But I think if they shot someone in that situation, it's Second Degree Murder, at least.
True, but when Royals play they generally aren't downrange, just simply in the room. That said if any of them were up for the experience, it would have been Thatcher.
SAS officers on the other hand were commonly seen seated right next to the targets. This was done to keep people focused, paying attention and not easily surprised.
And even hairier trick was a two team exercise with multiple entries where Team A and Team B engage targets in close proximity to each other with Team A engaging targets near Team B that are visible to Team A but not to Team B but are in position to threaten both teams and vice versa.
Actually, I'm pretty sure when Thatcher did it she was seated at a desk with her assistant. As the story goes she and her aid were seated at a desk in the room the SAS came in, eliminated targets throughout the room while they were seated near the targets... After the demo was finished Thatcher had not moved and inch but her aid was scared shitless and she told him to man up because he was embarrassing her... At least that is the story told by the SAS guys...
There is a documentary on it floating around somewhere...
Pretty sure when Charles did it he was not in harms way...
ETA: Just saw your post above... Disregard^^^^
sandman99and9
12-04-10, 08:05
Actually, I'm pretty sure when Thatcher did it she was seated at a desk with her assistant. As the story goes she and her aid were seated at a desk in the room the SAS came in, eliminated targets throughout the room while they were seated near the targets... After the demo was finished Thatcher had not moved and inch but her aid was scared shitless and she told him to man up because he was embarrassing her... At least that is the story told by the SAS guys...
There is a documentary on it floating around somewhere...
Pretty sure when Charles did it he was not in harms way...
ETA: Just saw your post above... Disregard^^^^
Maggie had balls of steel back in the day !! She didn't take shit from anyone.
S.M.
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